back to article Reg readers in Firefox 3 lovefest

Mozilla’s open-source Firefox browser accounts for 20 per cent of the worldwide browser market. So there’s no doubt Reg readers are outside the norm. In the first ten days of November, more than 47 per cent all of Reg traffic came from browsers using Gecko — the rendering engine at the heart of Firefox. The new Firefox 3 alone …

COMMENTS

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  1. Benny
    Gates Horns

    I take it

    that you are banning all those that visited with IE.*?

  2. jake Silver badge

    Shut up, Webster.

    You are a skipping record. Nobody wants to read it anymore.

  3. James
    Thumb Up

    Cool

    Who are the holdouts running IE5/FF1 though?

  4. J

    And I wonder...

    I wonder how many of those who are classified as IE are actually using something like "user agent switcher" on Firefox, because of some rogue sites and all that...

  5. James O'Brien
    Gates Horns

    Coding?

    "The Reg has no objection to readers using Internet Explorer. But we would welcome the death of IE6. Coding for IE6 is not enjoyable."

    And its better for 7?

  6. Michael
    Stop

    Who the fuck

    is still using IE 5? It'll be 10 years old in under 6 months!

  7. Cerretelli
    Alert

    Linux + Firefox = Happiness

    Linux distributions installs Firefox/Iceweasal by default, so this may have something to do with the high usage of the Gecko engine. Still I cant believe people are still using IE5,6 especially with such major exploits and bugs! Come on people, follow the crowd, join the revolution and install firefox today. Free yourself from the torment of IE.

  8. Bartelby
    Thumb Up

    Interesting

    At our suite of retail sites I see that we have a bit above normal FF usage for most of them, but our youth-oriented site sees over 40% FF traffic.

  9. Alex
    Stop

    IE6

    > Coding for IE6 is not enjoyable

    Ummm you missed out IE7 as well here. Get rid of that as well.

  10. Steve McPolin

    Fail and you

    Your site has all sorts of rendering glitches when viewed from linux+firefox. I had suspected you didn't care much, but if its 47% of your base, maybe you should put a bit of work into it....

  11. Anonymous from Mars
    Unhappy

    Sudden Interstitial Assault

    IE6 is mandatory where I work. Sorry.

  12. Efros
    Thumb Up

    What

    No Mosaic?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    i use firefox1...

    I tried ff2 when it came out, but getting rid of the 'close tab' button on the far right made it a chore to use.

    So when i open a lot of tabs (like for a days worth of webcomics), i can read and close each tab without having to move the pointer (trackpad on lappy).

    Hell, it would still work if the tabs stayed the same size, as the little X would be in the same place.

    But no.

    That would be too consistent.

  14. V.Srikrishnan

    how about Elinks and

    other text browsers? i use one regularly.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ i use firefox1...

    use this extension

    http://tmp.garyr.net/

    it gives you lots of tab browsing extras, there is no need to live in the dark ages any more.

  16. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Linux

    old timer

    Yupp I own up.

    I'm the one running FF1

    Mainly because it come with this Linux distro( Fedora 6) and I cant be bothered to spend all my life upgrading stuff, tweaking it , finally after 4 weeks customising and getting it running just right, having to do it all again because they've released another version.

    And besides... I use Mozilla 1.5 when running in windoze mode

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What I want to know

    is, who the hell's still using IE5?

  18. John P
    Coat

    I for one

    welcome our new reg-reading firefox-using overlords, although I still worship at the alter of Opera.

    How many people would constitute the 3.6% enjoyed by Opera? I do hope that's not just me!

    Opera wins over FF in terms of startup time and performance when browsing with 20+ tabs open, although its inventory of Widgets is not quite as impressive. FF is getting closer performance wise, so I'll just have to be satisfied with the knowledge the FF and IE steal everything from Opera anyway. Although got to give them the credit for pr0n mode.

    About 85% of my company still uses IE6 and I'm with the Reg, it is a ba$tard to code for. IE7 isn't great either but it is nowhere near as bad.

    I've just got to convince IT to force an IE7 upgrade (FF or Opera preferrably) but I will settle for IE7.

    Mines the one with the memory stick in the pocket containing Opera 9.6.

  19. Sceptical Bastard

    IE*5*?

    Jesus Aitch Ker-rist. That's like screaming "Pwn me" through a megaphone. Are those lusers still on Win98 too?

  20. logist

    @ i use firefox1...

    Firefox is configurable - http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.tabs.closeButtons

  21. Fenstar
    IT Angle

    @ i use firefox1...

    "Ctrl-W" closes tabs...

  22. Lee T.

    @ i use firefox1...

    or alternatively use ctrl+w (command+w).

    works for me.

    Opera is better though

    </websterbait>

  23. Grant
    Heart

    Opera

    I use opera. I have 29 tabs open in my general interest window(when I have more open it is hard for me to see the icons and remember what is which tab), and in windows for specific tasks I keep more tabs open that work. When I shut (volentary or not) I re-open opera nad all windows re-open with all tabs intact.This has been the norm for years. I only use FF2 for google docs and to run an addon that gives me mouse over translation of Japanese(not available for FF3 ). I use Safari for plugin testing. But then for me a browser is tool I don't want to spend hunderds of hours installing add-on and answering daily upgrade messages, I just want to use it.

    And yes IE6 is eviler than most MS software.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    IE7

    "And its better for 7?"

    Yes, actually. FF has a lot of rendering bugs you know, but because people have now been indoctrinated with "firefox is standards compliant", they believe it does it right and everyone else is wrong.

    Sure, IE7 and firefox disagree sometimes... sometimes ff is right, other times it's wrong. Yes, it would be easier if every browser shared the same bugs, but then that would lead to crappy code that just happens to look right on everything.

    I hate it when people bash IE just because they're in the church of firefox!

    Now, I'd even be prepared to use FF more, if it behaved better and it was faster to start up! I tend to double click on it, look up the site in IE, then see if FF has started, continue browsing in IE, double check, etc, etc

    Flame away

  25. Yfrwlf

    standards

    Just program for web standards and be done with it. Screw any browsers that aren't compatible with web standards.

    BTW, Firefox use is more like 23% in the U.S. and 30% or so in the U.K., but as always who knows what figures are really accurate, but something close to that seems to be the general consensus for many statistics sites. Maybe they just copy each other tho. ;)

  26. Dan Silver badge

    @Anonymous Coward

    Try about:config and changing browser.tabs.closeButtons.

    http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.tabs.closeButtons

  27. Gareth Jones

    Well I would, but...

    Firefox 3 crashes on me regularly, and it's the only app on by Intrepid install that does so it's nowt to do with the OS or the machine, just Firefox being unreliable.

    Opera on the other hand is 100% reliable. So maybe your figures show that your readers prefer behaving like sheep to having a reliable browser.h

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ i use firefox1...

    Or just use Ctrl W to close your current tab

  29. Francis Boyle Silver badge

    I'd make a comment

    about the low Opera share but I still can't post comments using Opera so I won't.

  30. Jerome
    Boffin

    @ i use firefox1...

    Ctrl + F4.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    Oops

    I was thinking "If The Reg has a techie skew to its figures, who the hell's using IE6?".

    Then I remembered I occasionally visit The Reg at work while using the stupid "Frontpage in a browser" web-site editor monstosity that still doesn't have IE7 or Firefox compatability. Annoys the hell out of me that all my projects have to cater for IE6 as that's what's rolled out around the business.

  32. David Ackrill

    Firefox 3

    I tried Firefox 3 and wasn't impressed, so I went back to version 2.

  33. kissingthecarpet
    Thumb Up

    Tabmix Plus

    is the name of the extension. It is the ability to extend FF & the huge range of extensions that make it so useful. Some of the extensions like Greasemonkey allow you to write your own webpage-enhancing script, increasing extensibility even further.

    Adblock & NoScript need to be shouted about as well. My boss uses IE7 at work & when i see the garbage adverts splattered ll over his screen, and all the time & resources they take up - I have to laugh.

    Yes I know IE7 has extensions, but you don't hear a lot about them do you? Last time I looked (a while ago i admit) most of them were *for sale* lol.

  34. Phil Cooke
    Alert

    IE6

    I have access to 2 different corporates networks for my current job. Both of them have IE6 as the standard browser and no immediate plans to change this :(

    That's probably where a lot of the IE6 traffic is from, legacy setups in corporates :s

  35. Martin Lyne
    Stop

    Re: O'Brien

    "And its better for 7?"

    7 at least has a semblance of understanding CSS, 6 is about as far off the beaten track as it's possible to go. We're considering an IE6 dedicated punchbag at work soon. I'm more in favour of the classic

    if(IE6 == true)

    {

    alert("The eighties called and they want their web browser back. Now fuck off and update your shit, bozo");

    }

    We do still have a very large and well known client that has lots of IE6 users. Company laptops. Shameful

  36. Steven Knox Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Coding

    Yes, coding for IE6 is a pain, and yes, coding for IE7 is better.

    Coding for IE7 is very easy. Simply ensure that you have the XHTML doctype, and then when the page still doesn't render correctly, tell the user to get a functional browser.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    IE Developer Hell & Opera Heaven

    Thanks, Cade, for mentioning the non-standard IE development hell for web developers. If that same line was mentioned in every browser article, IE would die much faster and free up all that developer time for more cool things.

    @And I Wonder:

    Yeah, was wondering about user-agent masking also, since Opera has used that as a defense for years to web sites that cripple Opera users with bad entry scripts. (MSNBC, are you listening?) Do these stats check for the Presto engine (in Opera) or is FF and IE getting their stats padded? To get an idea of the amount of work Opera has to do to deal with mangled sites, via Opera's browserJS:

    http://www.opera.com/docs/browserjs/

    And userJS is another tool for Opera users also:

    http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/userjs/

    @I use firefox1:

    Just use Opera v9.6 since all those advanced tab features that you want are already built-in, without add-ons. (And, has Opera Link to sync your bookmarks, Speed Dial, and search engines, plus WAY more -- yes, a granular adblocker) ;))

  38. Ideala2
    Joke

    where do i fit in?

    Surely atleast half of your traffic must be me browsing the reg on my mobile in order to distract myself from work/ the world around - i'm the one on operamini.

    oh, i see... this is the traffic from all the other visitors who don't love you as much.

  39. Henry Wertz Gold badge
    Thumb Up

    Re: How about Elinks

    Well, 5.1% "other" so I guess that covers it. I mainly use Firefox 3, but have to admit having used elinks a couple times; the register is actually pretty text-browser friendly. I also have my phone pointed to www.google.com as a WAP proxy and read the register through that (which probably shows some google user-agent string that'll also show as "other".

  40. Andrew Norton
    Thumb Down

    er what?

    "But we would argue that Reg readers exhibit a certain technical savvy you won’t find in the general population."

    You can argue all you want, won't make it true. I argue that Red readers exhibit a certain gullability in believing marketing hype for technical items you won't find in the general populace. How else can you explain the support for that buggy and bloated browser... Firefox.

    Which browser site distributed a trojan for months through their official add on site? Oh yeah, mozilla.

    Which browser markets itself as 'safest' yet has still not patched all the exploits on its last version? Or for that matter, the current version according to secunia? Firefox!

    Two browsers, covering versions from the same period of time. One has had 172 exploits, according to secunia, one has had 41. Guess which one's firefox (HINT start high!, comparing Firefox 2.x on, to opera 9.x on)

    Really trying to think why people use firefox, beyond some intrinsic and unsubstantiatable point that 'open source is better' for some reason i've yet to work out, despite working on it for 3 years.

    Me? I'll keep with my safer, faster, more secure and innovative opera.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    IE5 - What did you do during the war?

    Despite what you nerds might think, IE5 is still a consideration for any serious non-nerdy site.

    There are lots of people out there who bought a computer within the last 10 years and it hasn't broken down so they're still using it. They can't see any problems with the pages they browse (whether there are indeed problems or not) so they don't see the point in spending a fortune on a new one. They don't run Windows update or bother with free upgrades because, again, they can't see the point of changing anything that doesn't need fixing.

    These people are often middle aged or older, a bit clueless with technology at the best of times (You can replace their old site with a spangly new Web 2.0 site and the only thing that'll impress them is the fact that you changed the font or the colours) and unfortunately are either in charge or influential. So you can't afford to present them with a site that breaks when they try it, and then tell them it's *their* fault. They very rarely own a car or TV older than their computer too, and look at you like an idiot when you point that out in order to try and explain how out of date their software is.

    I have Windows Media Player 9 and I don't want to upgrade to version 11. The damn think keeps pestering me to upgrade and there's no option to disable this warning. Why do MS think it's perfectly fine to pester the user over the program that plays their MP3s but not their web browser? If IE5 and 6 were popping up a message every week telling them to get an upgrade, I'm sure more people would have, and IE5 would be closer to being dead than it is right now.

    Even if we could get the Windows 95 users onto IE5.5 and the 90 users onto 6.0 it would be better, but all my logs show that there are far more IE5.0 users than 5.5.

    Also, major websites could help by providing 'incentives' to change browsers sooner. The BBC still lists IE5.0 as a supported browser. If the iPlayer didn't work in it, or too many news articles were unreadable people would soon upgrade. The same goes with every other major site around the world.

    Ultimately, people only dropped NS4 in the end because too many sites broke. IE5.0 does dynamic rendering and AJAX so it's still more practicable to use hacks to get it working whereas with NS4 you were up against a dead wall. And how many posters here who make websites deliberately annoy IE5 users by inserting messages to upgrade on every page, or provide an alternative stylesheet that makes the site look more boring?

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    re: But we would argue that Reg readers

    >> exhibit a certain technical savvy you won’t find in the general population

    you'd argue this - even after seeing the standards of comments. :-p

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Grant

    "gives me mouse over translation of Japanese(not available for FF3 )". Try perapera-kun, but youre talking about rikai-chan aren't you, works for me in ff3

  44. Mike Street
    Thumb Up

    Close Tab Returned

    with FF3. At least I have it on mine.

    Never use it though :)

  45. this
    Thumb Up

    Could be

    that Adblock is very good at removing irritating ads...

  46. Neil Greatorex
    Stop

    "Coding for IE6 is not enjoyable"

    Then don't do it.

    When you detect IE5.5 or 6 - Tell them.

  47. adnim Silver badge

    Beating the obvious with an obvious stick

    "But we would argue that Reg readers exhibit a certain technical savvy you won't find in the general population."

    Er well this site ain't exactly Chat Magazine, Heat or Reloaded etc.

    But it is reassuring to know that a good percentage of IT professionals are using the more secure browsing technology.

    Now if the same survey were taken of sites such as The Sun, OK magazine and Nuts magazine I reckon IE will most certainly dominate. I have always believed that readers of such publications prefer to have their thinking done for them.

  48. zig158
    Jobs Horns

    FF1

    I use firefox 1 because I am stuck with that or safari on my work computer. At home, it is Ubuntu with FF3 for my browsing pleasures.

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    @AC ff1 : ctrl+W anyone?

    Heard of keyboard shortcuts? Or does ff1 predate the keyboard? No skating rink required!

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    IE6

    I'm sad to say I make up part of the 16% using IE6 because I have no choice at work.

    The front page really doesn't work properly on it at all, lots of overlaps.

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IE6

    The reason there will be quite a few with IE 6 is that in some places like libraries, they have a fixed set of software installed and in my local library, they use IE6, Adobe Acrobat Reader 5 and most have Office 2000. So places like libraries where they do not want to update software are stuck in a time warp.

    The reason that I have IE6 installed (although unused) is that I need the WGA in order to upgrade from IE6 to IE7.

  52. PhilF
    Unhappy

    Compulsory Punishment

    Much like anonymous from Mars I also browse from work where I am forced to suffer the iniquities of IE6.

    At home it is anyone of FF3, Opera 9.5 or Chrome depending on my mood.

  53. Fillip
    Gates Horns

    You forgot 8

    You also forgot IE 8, even compatability mode sucks. Microshaft should stop with the browser idea and concentrate on making an operating system that doesnt plain suck.

    I hear winblows 7 might be better than the last attempt but im sceptical.

    LONG LIVE FIREFOX!

  54. Cameron Colley

    Opera and me

    I'd dearly love to use Operra, but they seem unable to make cookie-handling simple -- so I don't. There are a few interface things that always annoy me too -- but I could probably get used to them.

    Until then -- Firefox all the way.

    Perhaps most, if not all, of the people using IE5 and such are really using Opera and changing the user string? Would make more sense on a techy site than them being hold-outs.

  55. Chika
    Go

    Well...

    I use Firefox 2 at work as not all the plugins I need work on Firefox 3. I use a mixture at home depending on what I'm working on at the time; Firefox 3 on openSUSE or WXP, NetSurf or Oregano 1 if I'm on RISC OS.

    Yeah, I still have IE6 but it's only there to do things that lazy coders or greedy corporates with sponsorships to consider refuse to code up properly (hello, Juniper!)

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    @Fail and you

    Err, I've never seen this site show any rendering issues with Firefox on linux?

    Unless you call those annoying Flash adverts rendering issues ...

  57. Roland Young

    Need to use FF to turn off ads!

    Using Mac Os, I tend to use Safari out of inertia, but if visit the Reg using Safari, CPU usage goes up to 100% instantly. I have to use FF with NoScript to save the battery and my legs. I seem to remember I saw the same with IE, but I now use FF exclusively on Windows.

    Too much Flash may be bad for your click-through rates.

  58. David Simpson
    Gates Halo

    IE5 ?

    So who is using IE5 ? Me sometimes, my iPaq runs WM2003 and I'm pretty sure the mobile IE is based on IE 5, are all IE5 hits WinMo devices ?

    Also to everyone complaining about Firefox 3 crashing, did you uninstall 2 reboot then install 3 ?

    It can make a big difference.

  59. Jonas Taylor

    Really?

    "Really trying to think why people use firefox, beyond some intrinsic and unsubstantiatable point that 'open source is better' for some reason i've yet to work out, despite working on it for 3 years."

    What utter nonsense. NEway, the main reason is extension support, notably Adblock. It is possible to block ads in Opera but it's very messy and doesn't update automatically. Opera is a decent browser, and the Wand feature is great, but I've given it a serious try several times over the years and I always end up back with Firefox - whether it was Ctrl-Enter on addresses not working (now fixed), websites not working properly, the annoying download manager... there was always something that annoyed me.

    I'm more interested in Chrome, which is already very promising. With extension support (currently being worked on) and more features, particularly regarding privacy (I don't want it remembering my visited websites but I don't want to use the Incognito mode all the time), I can see it going places. The interface is superior. The features are great. It's based on webkit, which is more standards compatible and updated constantly (unlike Firefox, which takes aeons to make very little progress). I use Firefox 3 at the moment... it's far from perfect but it's currently the best out there.

  60. Paul Lee
    Thumb Up

    Firefox usage.

    Sounds about right, looking at my web stats: http://www.paullee.com/computers/index.php

  61. Gareth Jones

    @Francis Boyle & Cameron Colley

    Problems posting comments with Opera? No problem with it here on Linux or XP (home or work). So it sure ain't Opera that's the problem.

    Likewise cookie handling. It's simple and straight forward.

    Firefox? Baaaaah. Baaaaaah. Baaaaaaah.

  62. Andrew Wigglesworth

    Emacs

    I'm often using GNU Emacs/W3M, personally, so that will be part of the 5% or so at the bottom of the list (I'm using it to post this comment).

    If not, I'll probably be on Konqueror because my Desktop GUI is KDE.

    I'm also another one hoping for the day when IE6 dies (please!!!).

  63. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Meanwhile on the other side of the internet

    On my site, which admittedly a travel site rather than a technical one, the bias is very different. On there IE users outnumber FF 10:1.

    Almost every visitor is running Windows (XP or Vista), but what's interesting is the XP:Vista ratio: XP now outnumbers Vista by just 2:1.

    Windows overall outnumbers OSX by more than 100:1, and the Linux share is effectively non-existent. I have more search engine indexing visits than Linux visitors ;)

    Oh, and for those in favour of making any site say "get a browser that works"; you're the main reason the general population dislikes Firefox. They don't care what they browse with, but they *do* care when someone prevents them from doing what they want to do. Putting the shoe on the other foot, how would you feel if someone set their website up to force you to "upgrade" from FF to IE? No, didn't think you'd be so keen on that ;)

  64. jim

    further

    If you try these browsers on an ASUS EEE PC, with a slow CPU and a flash drive, you'll see how much faster than IE Opera really is.

    The interesting thing to me is not that Microsoft has been passed up by Opera and Firefox. It's that the gap is increasing. Microsoft has many brilliant people but is today a huge multi-headed bureaucracy.

  65. Jeremy
    Heart

    It's Adblock Plus, silly...

    Mayeb the higher than average Firefox counts are down to the availability of ABP + Filterset.G. Much as I love you, my dear El Reg, you are going a bit Ryanair lately, what with the bloody flash everywhere.

  66. yeah, right.

    Tell them to bugger off

    As soon as IE traffic drops below 25%, I'm guessing you can just put up a page saying "sorry, your browser is shite, get a better one" to any IE user. Just like so many websites did for so many years with regards to using Microsoft IE, where I got really tired of seeing the equivalent of "fuck off you non-Microsoft using pirate, we can't be bothered to create standards compliant websites and we're only coding for IE".

    Turnabout would be SO sweet.

  67. Lee
    Go

    Firefox Portable

    If those at work cannot install software, consider portableapps.com for your needs.

    Hopefully your nasty admins are not blocking your useragent at your outbound gateway.... ;)

  68. Patrick O'Reilly

    @Ideala2

    don't forget me, I'm at least 50% of that Opera Mini traffic

  69. William Bronze badge
    Happy

    No problems posting from Opera.

    nt

  70. Peter

    chrome

    I use Chrome at the moment. It's not quite ideal, but I was getting a bit fed up with FF refusal to implement some kind of multi-threaded / process model. For some reason, at the time I was first trying out Chrome, something made my FF installation highly unreliable, so I've stuck with it.

    I had FF tweaked very much how I like it. But it seemed to start a) crashing quite a bit on my system and b) saying stuff along the lines of 'oh hai, I've upgraded myself to version n+1e-6, and that means TabMixPlus won't work any more. kthxbye'. Chasing around fixing stuff like that is *dull* in the extreme.

    Actually, Chrome has also had it's odd funny moment, with the interface not responding or the browser crashing.

    Opera's a good browser. Maybe I should use that more. I used to be put off by not being able to replicate my FF setup, but I've trained myself to be less fussy now...

  71. b
    Alert

    close tabs (numpties)

    Control F4 will also close a tab...because...wait for it!

    it's a "document" within an "application" window!

    easy huh?!

  72. b
    Go

    GO FF!

    good.

    btw, i can second that last comment about "coding for IE6". i do basic web dev and i write to FF and fix to IE...and it's usually quite a bit of fixing.

    if i didn't have to do this browser compatibilty dance each time i got a bit of work, i could possibly shave 5-10% off the workload! (ahem, but obviously would still charge the same!).

    i would also like to point out that the "first 10 days in november" thing, is not so exclusive. these sorts of 40+% figures for FF are echoed at w3schools.com:

    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

    ..which i also like because you can look back over the progression/regression of FF and various other browsers, including the steady decline of IE, which is always nice to see! ;)

    cheers,

    bill

    p.s. stuff and nonsense: http://www.eupeople.net/forum

  73. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We're all using Opera in "Pretend you're something else" mode

    operaoperaoperaoperaopera see

  74. RoyalHeart
    Linux

    SeaMonkey Savvy

    I've been using SeaMonkey for about a year now. It's basically a continuation of NetScape. Works fine for me, has only crashed once.

    SeaMonkey 1.1.11 on Suse 10.3

    http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

  75. robert
    Gates Horns

    got to love browser wars II

    If most people are using firefox, and if all of those use adblock plus then really why would el reg bother to put ads on the site? I use Ubunbtu + firefox3 + adblock plus. Out of interest, who else uses adblock or similar?

    I too would welcome the death of IE6.

  76. Paul Smith
    Thumb Down

    Dumb and Dumber.

    FF has had me worried ever since Mozilla decided that when I type w into the address bar on my laptop it should:

    www.show-clients

    www.everything-in

    www.my-browsinghistory

    Awesome indeed.

    I also now use -f switched shutdown after a beautiful example of taking time off work / coming back to find FF3 asking: 'Are you sure? Wouldn't you like your browser to keep you logged in to Windows and your encrypted volume of security systems, banking and accounting details?' Aye, I was sure.

    But I'll put up with anything rather than go back to flash overlays covering what I'm reading like some insane clown and monkeys asking to be punched.

  77. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ David Ackrill re: Firefox upgrade.

    Like you I found the transition from 2 to 3 to be a bit of a culture shock, what with the truly awful 'Awesome' bar and the childish 'Most Visited' features indicating that there is too much Google cash swilling around Mozilla at the moment. Bling and Web 2ness are the playthings of the marketing boys and they seem to be running the show now.

    Fortunately the original developers of Firefox made it highly configurable and extensible so that it is relatively easy to get rid of the crap and still enjoy the security benefits of an upgraded browser. Go for it.

  78. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    If you can't do decent markup...

    It shouldn't matter what browser you use to surf the web, within reason. The issue at stake here is lazy and ineffective web developers.

    Internet Explorer 6 - yes, it's a pain, but if you can't code your way around it's problems, then your pretty dumb.

    Compared with 5.5, it's a godsend.

    As for Internet Explorer 7, no problems. If you know what your doing, you can use the same markup for ie7 as you do for Gecko based browsers.

    The moment a website relies on Javascript/Ajax to render information is the moment you effectively "break" the web, especially when it uses code that isn't standards compliant.

    Bottom line, a website should be able to deliver the same basic information to a text based browser as it does to a GUI based modern browser. If your site falls apart without Javascript, to the point where no information is delivered, do us a favour and go home and shoot yourself.

  79. Thomas Silver badge

    IE5 suggestions

    Version 5 was the final Internet Explorer for Mac OS, Mac OS X, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Solaris and HP-UX. Maybe the aggregate of those users contributes something towards its surprisingly strong showing?

  80. CTG
    Unhappy

    @yeah, right

    Indeed it would be nice to tell IE users to get lost. The most annoying example of "IE-only" sites I came across was when Royal Bank of Scotland introduced internet banking. I went to have a look at it in Opera, only to be told "For security reasons, the only supported browser is Internet Explorer". After laughing for about half an hour, I started looking for a new bank. For a banking site to say you must use the least secure web browser on the market was a bit scary, really.

  81. MikeG
    Happy

    Opera

    One of the 3.6% Opera users here, though I do use Firefox occasionally for the sake of a couple of plugins. As for IE 7, I only ever use it for a single solitary website whose Shockwave content just won't play nice with either Opera or Firefox.

    The Reg stats made me take a look at the stats for a little website I run that averages around 12,000 unique visitors a month, and I found we'd had 53.3% Firefox, 31.5% IE, and 5.3% Safari (what?)...

  82. JB
    Thumb Up

    Two-timer

    I use both firefox and Opera about evenly. The issue with firefox, where scrolling pages with fixed backgrounds is sooooo sloooow annoys me to hell - how come Opera can do it? Opera has annoying features too, eg why can't you right-click in the bookmarks menu and open a bookmark in a new tab/window like in Firefox? Horses for courses, I suppose.

  83. John Angelico
    Boffin

    Coding for IE6 is a chore

    Umm, shouldn't you be coding for a web standard (WC3 etc) instead of for a brand of browser?

    Methinks your IT department needs a review of WBP (World's Best Practice) for web development...

  84. Tim J
    Paris Hilton

    What about IE4?

    Seriously though, what with all this talk of ABP, all I can say is that I disable it when perusing El Reg - this journalism lark doesn't pay for itself you know?

    And, before anyone says it, don't fucking tell me about the wonderful world of volunteer citizen journalism - I don't want to get my news from an ill-informed 14 year old with too much time on their hands because they got bored of wanking, I already get my encyclopaedia from them after all.

    Paris because she could make use of Cock Block Plus but has instead chosen to disable it entirely.

  85. Adam

    ie6

    I don't what brand of browser people use, the differance between IE7 and Firefox is negligable to Joe Sixpack who only wants to check their hotmail/ebay/facebook.

    I do wish people would upgrade from IE6, its a buggy backwards browser and makes the jobs of web-developers like myself miserable as we have to hack away at perfectly valid HTML/CSS to get it to work in a depreciated browser that AFAIK hasn't had an update in naerly 5 years.

    Sadly, if we're asked to accommodate the Mac users in the 1-2% range then it will be a long time before the IE6 mob still in the 20%+ range gets phased out.

  86. Anonymous Coward
    Heart

    @Two-timer

    Try the middle button. It works everywhere, including the bookmarks menu.

    Yep, Opera here.

  87. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    IE sux

    Oh yes it does!

  88. Jeremy
    Thumb Up

    @Tim J

    Might as well hide 'em, cos I sure as hell ain't gonna click 'em, sorry.

    Companies (inc El Reg) know that a certain proportion of the readers will have ad blocking software and that some people just won't click obnoxious in your face ads, visible or not. They factor that into the positioning and amount of advertising to maximise the impact on the people left (a small percentage, I'd guess) that are likely to click.

    Put simply, those of us who block ads ain't gonna bankrupt El Reg, so quit worrying.

  89. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    OS breakdown

    Whilst you're analysing the logs, how about an OS breakdown while you're there? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to know what percentage of the site's visitors are running Vista / XP /OSX / linux ....

  90. Steve
    Unhappy

    IE6 hanging around for a loooooong time yet...

    The company where I work (~15,000 desktops) is only just starting to pilot IE7. On ~150 desktops. I think IE6 is going to be around for a veeeery long time yet.

  91. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Where I work

    Firefox is the officially supported / recommended browser for my employer (IBM) and most of use update often. Also at least 30% of my office colleagues are using Linux as their main desktop Operating system (despite the fact that we do a fair amount of windows development - but thats what VM's are for).

  92. Gordon Grant
    Thumb Up

    Coding for IE / Opera / etc

    Hmm having tried to code a page so it displayed correctly in IE / Opera 6( it was a long time ago) and netscape...

    I can confirm coding for IE was and still is a PITA, God bless the "CSS hacks" that get around the major bugs in the rendering of items... Still using FF2 as well some of the addons I love using don't work in FF3 and well it basically fell over when i tried to install it seperatly - I think they need to seperate out the "plugins" folder...

    I love browser wars, I need a laugh sometimes..

  93. Fab De Marco
    Joke

    All your browsers are belong to me!

    I don't use a browser. I just think it and it appears on el reg.

    posted using FF3 FTW

  94. Anonymous Coward
    IT Angle

    @IE installed at work crowd

    As Lee said in another post, look into FireFox Portable. As IT people, I'm sure you knew about this already, I'm sure it just slipped your mind.

    http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable

  95. Oninoshiko
    Coat

    @ Fail and you

    Considering that this page passes W3C validation (4 warnings), any rendering problems you might be having with it is the fault of a shoddy browser. I'll admit I haven't checked EVERY page, on el Reg. Also I have flash, JS, and java disabled (which is always the case unless I have a need for them (when I do Tim Berners-Lee smashes an open standard on the pavement, with a sledge-hammer... all Gallager-like))

    Yes, mines the one running Opera for Solaris, thanks.

  96. Andy Bright
    Joke

    What about me?

    Where's my support for IE 4.0?

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