back to article Hotmail users bitch and moan about new interface

Many Hotmail users are up in arms at Microsoft after it decided to shelve the “classic” interface in its free email service. The software giant said it redesigned Hotmail to make it “much, much faster that the old ‘full’ experience”. But users have vehemently complained about the revamp. “This format is terrible! I wonder …

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  1. Neil

    it is pretty crap, but..

    But, who cares? Still does the job.

    Reminds me of the recent facebook changes, people were 'up in arms', creating groups to pressure a return to the old style, saying they'd leave if it didnt change back etc. etc. but at the end of the day, how much can you give a shit?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yuck

    I'm really not keen on the new look. It should be simple and elegant, but I would class it as more plain, boring and over-sized (what's with this trend?). It really doesn't work well with Opera on the Mac either - just unresponsive - who on earth tested this thing? C- can do better.

  3. Ian Ferguson
    Gates Horns

    From a web designer's view

    What is much more frustrating than moany users is trying to create nice pretty HTML formatted emails which will show correctly in Hotmail and Outlook 2007, as well as sensible email clients. Both reject basic, common W3C standards that even IE5 could cope with - stuff like CSS in the header, the 'padding' spacing variable, background images... basically we're back to designing pages with tables, and even then having to play around with them constantly to get round Outlook's foibles.

    For some reason, Microsoft have decided to use the dunderheaded Word rendering engine rather than IE - this means Outlook 2007 can't even display emails that Outlook 2000 could.

    The new Hotmail engine is almost as bad - bizarre really, as you'd think it would rely on the user's browser to do basic rendering. But no, Microsoft see fit to randomly remove useful HTML and CSS :(

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Revise subhead...

    "Change not always a good thing"

    Judging by the unvarying manner in which the blogosphere reacts to any change on the net, that should read:

    "Change always not a good thing"

    Whinging brats.

  5. Stephen Soutar

    But its free......

    Why complain about something you get for nothing. If you don't like it switch to another, or if email is critical for you, get a proper paid for email service.

  6. Frank Kerrigan
    Thumb Down

    Its Shit

    Shit is too good a word to use for such a crappy interface, it doesn't even render correctly. Schools project gone too far.

  7. Xander
    Paris Hilton

    Why not...

    If you're not happy with the service, why not ask for a refund?

    Paris: Because she probably would

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    HTML Formatted E-Mails?!

    Pretty HTML formatted E-Mails... WTF are you doing?

    Rule 1 Never, I repeat NEVER use HTML in an E-Mail and expect it to look the same on the recipients computer as it did on the senders system.

    Rule 2 Don't forget blind people will probably be using a 'screen reader', loads of HTML = fail, plain text will work just fine.

    Rule 3 Don't use E-Mail until you really understand Rule 1

    As for Hotmail stripping HTML code out before rendering - maybe this is a security measure... oh no wait this is Hotmail!

  9. max allan
    Thumb Down

    Doesn't work with Chrome either (or does it)

    If you're a chrome user, you can't create email (unless it's just me!).

    Hit reply and you get a blank message that you can't type into with the recipient's addresses at the top.

    Hit "New" message and you get a similar blank page that you can't type into and address/subject that you can type into.

    The font / format buttons are disabled as well.

    Is it just me or has anyone else noticed this?

  10. Mart

    Pointless

    Great, they completely redesign the interface and now it looks like half of it hasn't loaded as all the colours and half the lines have gone. And for what? I don't see a single new feature or option anywhere!

  11. Efros
    Paris Hilton

    There's a new interface?

    I just use my webmail plugin for Thunderbird for hotmail.

    Efros

    Paris cos she knows a good interface when she sees one.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not just

    It's not just "If you aren't happy, ask for a refund" it's "If you're stupid enough to still use hotmail for anything, you don't get to complain"

  13. Gordon Grant
    Gates Horns

    MS, Hotmail and the Non-IE browser

    Hmm why does this not surprise me that the New Hotmail interface doesn't reneder correctly in anything other than IE..

    Yeah I do hate how it drops random CSS rules at will.

    I also hate that there is no "mark as READ" option like well practically every other web based e-mail service..

    Also I just want to see the message headers if I wanted to see the e-mail I'd open it..

    THAT's how people get infected by E-mail from duff sources.. the "Preview" as it's basically opened the e-mail and ran the scripts..

  14. Ceilidhman
    Boffin

    FAU on Opera

    The horrible thing for me is that it won't run in Opera so, if you're visually impaird you have to fall back to IE which has to be the most disabled-unfriendly browser out there.

    Mine-s the one with the thick glasses & cane

  15. Why
    Alert

    Too many tabs that dont seem to remember your positions

    Have to resize everything every time I login.

    Give us the old style back!

  16. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    Flame

    It's worse than that - it's deliberately broken on Ubuntu

    If you try either Firefox or Konqueror from Kubuntu, or Firefox from Ubuntu, MS won't provide the necessary bits to let the message creation page accept the cursor focus and actually write something.

    The only way I've seen to fix this is is to remove 'Ubuntu' from the user agent vendor.

    And I won't hear the argument 'shouldn't be using Hotmail anyway'; I've been a user a long time, since before MS got their grubby little paws on it and started breaking it, and I want it to work exactly as any properly compliant web-page should: irrespective of browser or OS.

  17. Mike Crawshaw
    Thumb Down

    Yeeuch

    Just had the forced migration. Horrible. When the browser isn't full screen (which is my normal), the folder options and "Other places" merge into and over each other. And they took away the "empty folder" options previously placed next to junk and deleted, so now you have to go into that folder to have the option to empty it all, which is a pain in the arse.

    But it's free and I like my address, so I guess I'll suck it up. It's not like MS get any money out of me using it (click on adverts? HA!) so I guess I don't really have any leverage...

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    @Max Allen

    I was having the same problem in Firefox on Debian. Changin the User agent string so that firefox reported itself as running on Windows fixed the problem. Not sure if chrome can do the same

  19. Steve
    Unhappy

    Hotmail - a pain too far

    I had the new interface inflicted on me this week (I didn't even know it was going to be changed!) and I agree it is actually worse than the old one. The worst bit for me is that because I long ago gave up paying for the privilege of an account M$ now see fit to use a quarter of the screen for adverts, which just makes the rest of it a pain to use. Just so you understand, I'm not complaining adverts as such, I know that I have to pay for free some how. But come on! Google manage it much nicer with Gmail!

    I have to admit I'm also fed up with M$ deliberately breaking the service on anything that isn't IE.

    Ah well, more impetus to move away from them then.

  20. Matt
    Unhappy

    Dont like it

    My main complaint about hotmail is is the fact that the new look is shit. and it keeps 'swallowing' legitimate emails, not even putting them in the junk folder.

    My two main complaints about hotmail is fact that the new look is shit and it keeps 'swallowing' legitimate emails, not even putting them in the junk folder. and increasing amounts of junk mail keeps making it to me inbox.

    My three...

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    HATE!

    I hate it, switching to gmail now..shame theres no autoforward selection from hotmail

  22. Giles Jones Gold badge

    @But its free.....

    >Why complain about something you get for nothing. If you don't like it switch to another, or if email >is critical for you, get a proper paid for email service.

    Because it's Microsoft and they're so serious about having great online services but time and time again they prove they don't have a clue as to what end users want.

  23. Glenn Gilbert

    iPhone "Upgrade your browser"

    When visiting with an iPhone you get the "Upgrade your browser" message.

    And the options they give: IE, Firefox, Safari. Hey, isn't that what I'm using?

    The old interface worked with an iPhone, not with the new one due to the way they edit messages.

    What's the rules about accessibility? Don't rely on a particular browser. Degrade gracefully. Fail. Twats.

    But then again, what does one expect for free?

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Another unhappy user,,,

    It was a bit of a shock when they changed it...

    Things that you would expect to be there are not anymore

    - Check email button

    - Mark as read/unread (as someone's already mentioned)

    Yes, its quicker to load... A lot slower to use tho!

    Another Hotmail/Microsoft EPIC FAIL!

    And I too have been using Hotmail since well before MS got their mitts on it!

    GMail... Here I (possibly) come!

  25. The Mole
    Stop

    Load times?

    Which fool decided that page load times are the essential measurement criteria. It doesn't matter how quickly the page loads if it is slow to actually process the contents and navigate round the site.

  26. Nigel Wright
    Thumb Down

    Deffo broken this time

    Doesn't work on Ubuntu. I guess this is deliberate.

    It's now very slow and clunk.

    Am I bothered? Nope! It's free - I'll just send my mail elsewhere. I only use hotmail for sing-ups, junk and people I don't want to give my proper mail address to.

  27. Rob Delaney

    Heh

    It is far, far, far better than the abomination that Ebay is trying to impose on us.

  28. Greg

    I quite like it

    It actually looks like a mail client. And it *is* a damn sight faster now, no question. Less annoying too, by some miracle of oddness.

  29. Greg

    The only downside is...

    ...my WebMail plugin for Thunderbird doesn't work now. Bah!

  30. Jodo Kast
    Thumb Down

    Anti-Microsoft

    I was pro-Microsoft when they acted normal.

    Decided to cut sales for XP, the OS that users know and love? Not Normal.

    Decided to stop listening to their users? Not Normal.

    Sure, it might be normal for some companies to act like this -- Apple for instance -- but I'm bummed that Microsoft has turned the corner.

  31. Lee Dowling Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    And?

    More annoying than anything, it doesn't work in Opera AGAIN (the buttons do nothing but give a javascript error). It's almost as if Hotmail have got a personal grudge against the Opera people because they've only just brought out 9.62. I never cared for the non-Classic look anyway - even the renaming of things like "Inbox" to "Mail" annoyed me.

    However, the situation was easily resolved - I switched all my email forwarding to a GMail account instead. Never give out an @hotmail address... just buy a £2 throwaway domain and use that to forward instead - change ISP, change provider, who cares, you just re-forward the email. I wonder how many people have done the same.

    It took about ten seconds to change my setting. Two or so hours for the change to propogate worldwide and now all I get is spam in the Hotmail account. Fortunately, I'm a user of MSN Messenger (using Pidgin), so my account will always stick around in case someone does try to use the @hotmail.com address.

    Shame, because before they got rid of the Classic Interface last time around I was actually a "Hotmail Plus" subscriber and would have stayed on it out of sheer laziness if they hadn't caused me all this hassle before. After that, I no longer paid, I just used it as an email for casual acquaintances and because it was easy to log into from anywhere in the world. Now everyone is using my forwarded addresses so they haven't even noticed the difference, and I get an MSN "ping" if I do get anything important into that account anyway.

    Oh, and Hotmail support (especially "Live Support") are the most stupid people you will ever meet. You spend half an hour explaining the problem and they say things like "Well, Opera isn't supported. Goodbye". YES, I know, but I also told you that I'd tried IE, Firefox, Netscape, Mosaic, Lynx on every operating system known to man.

    No big loss for me. Big loss, I suspect, for MSN.

  32. Daniel Bennett
    Stop

    Really stupid redesign... Always set to "InboxLight" :/

    Always seems to be set to the "Light" version...

    Theres no Send/Receive and I cant see how its faster cos its even slower and much harder to use.

    the last version was much better and I loved it!

    God damn it

  33. Jason
    Happy

    bollux - a star wars character

    get a life people - its free, it works, it may not be the best, so change and chill out!!

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's a bit shit, really

    Everything in noddy "large type format" for the hard-of-reading by default means nothing fits any more. Meh. It's free. Why should it actually be any good?

  35. Greg

    I hadn't noticed the Windows only thing

    The cheeky bastards! I'd already modified my user-agent string, so I didn't realise they'd done it. That's just plain arsey.

  36. Stephen Bungay

    Reminds me of...

    When the Reg changed their user interface.. As I recall the Reg didn't change back (ok, they put back some of the old icons), M$ probably won't either.

  37. Graham Jordan

    It's probably just me...

    But the fonts on the left hand side with the folders list, reminds me far too much of Comic Sans.

    Anyone, and I sincerely mean ANYONE, using Comic Sans for anything more than a homemade Christmas card to a 6 year old relative deserves to be urinated on by a herd of stampeding cows then thrown into a meat grinder.

    I’m using Firefox 3, perhaps this is why they look so awful?

  38. Nic
    Flame

    @AC - HTML Pretty emails

    Wrong wrong wrong.

    "Rule 1 Never, I repeat NEVER use HTML in an E-Mail and expect it to look the same on the recipients computer as it did on the senders system." - There are plenty of services out there including Return-Paths system that allow you to previews all email clients and therefore be sure.

    "Rule 2 Don't forget blind people will probably be using a 'screen reader', loads of HTML = fail, plain text will work just fine." - That's what the Text Alternate version in Mime Email is for. Clients using screen readers will use that.

    "Rule 3 Don't use E-Mail until you really understand Rule 1" - What? You just wanted to come up with three points but could only muster 2?

  39. John Macintyre

    opera user no more

    Alas I used to use opera to view my email, and nothing works in Opera now, links don't respond, pages don't change, it's like it's a picture of my mail. I like firefox, but I just used opera for my email because it was quicker to load and use. alas now my opera will sit quietly on the side. I wouldn't care so much if it actually worked, but it's M$ so they had to crap it up somehow.

    Oh and having to scroll your folders when you didn't have to before, and not having the quick empty on your junk/trash folders unless you open them up first.. they haven't sped up hotmail so much as removed all the functionality so you can't do anything. maybe as people leave they can claim it's faster for the leftover users?

    I'll stick with it for now but it's certainly one major I now have to switch email services, there aren't many left that I like though.

  40. Rob
    Flame

    @Nic RE: @AC - HTML Pretty emails

    "There are plenty of services out there including Return-Paths system that allow you to previews all email clients and therefore be sure." - indeed there are plenty but not all, which is the original point of AC, for maximum compatibilty, plain is the way to go.

    "That's what the Text Alternate version in Mime Email is for. Clients using screen readers will use that." - Indeed, but most of us live in the real world where a lot of people don't fill in the Alt text whether they have a legal obligation too or not. Again plain text solves that issue

    "What? You just wanted to come up with three points but could only muster 2?" - You couldn't be bothered to come up with a point 3 better than the original made (nope neither could I ;))

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    NO functional mail and A COLD SHOWER

    title says it all

    not only looks but acts broken...

    time for a rollback... or the trashcan

    whichever is faster...

  42. Michael
    Gates Horns

    You could give away free money...

    playing CS:S/DOD:S whilst testing a $ for play service and still the brats would complain wether it be reg or some other issue that probably just isnt that important!!!

    Its F-R-E-E deal with it! But no doubt if you shout load enough they might decide to hear you.. but like someone else has already commented.... ITS FREE!!!

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    I love it!

    I absolutely LOVE the new look and the easier way to choose the font style and size. It's brilliant. I'm using my hotmail account more and more since the changes. Have waited a long time for this improvement.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    Grammar pedant alert.

    >"it decided to shelf the “classic” interface"

    You don't shelf something, you shelve it. See, e.g. http://www.bartleby.com/68/47/4147.html

  45. Nic
    Alert

    @Rob Re @Nic RE: @AC - HTML Pretty emails

    Okay so no point 3 I can live with that ;-)

    I don't agree with your basic premise about plain text being the better option. I own an ESP (Email Service Provider) business. The stats just don't add up in your favour. Typically we receive a much higher click through rate for HTML emails.

    Oh and before you ask, no I am not a spammer. These are all opt-in lists for my clients newsletters etc. We force them to use the text alternative too! (It also helps for spam filters)

    My original point was that Ian Furgason was talking as a creator of email templates, not talking about sending an ordinary email. Plain text isnt the way to go.

  46. shane fitzgerald
    Dead Vulture

    So?

    Nobody ueses the lame ass service anymore so who cares?

  47. Steve

    @ Ian Ferguson

    CSS in an email, it's an email! not a web page!

    However, this is a free service, you get what you pay for, and thankfully there are free alternatives.

  48. Mike Groombridge

    @iPhone "Upgrade your browser"

    i got that on my pc usering firefox hit continue and it worked just ignore it

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Lost the plot

    I have no problems with rendering in FF 2.0.0.17 on XP, looks almost exactly the same as IE6.

    However, girly pastel shades have been the only thing that MS has been pushing for a few years now.

    We also want functionality not lock-ins any more. Really p!$$ed off since they cut off access to hotmail with Outlook...actually does work if you get a free officelive account and get a live.com address, you also get Outlook Connector.

    Don't like google mail either. Neither Zoho. Guess that web 2.0 is a load of hype sh!t at the end of the day. Yes I want good connectivity and online access, storage etc, but not the cr@p interfarces that today's designers insist on.

    Actually Zimbra looks half-decent, but yet to find a good value hosted account with lots of storage, to include calendar and contacts.

  50. Mike Morris
    Unhappy

    Comcast did this too

    Actually, comcast didn't even give us a comparison period to allow you to use the new or the old. One day, without warning, mail stops working and you don't get it back without restarting into the new crap. No going back. At all. Ever. Tough Love. Most people also experienced comcast's servers going out for half a day as well, making a customer service nightmare. Bully for them.

    I really don't mind comcast's new look but they dropped functionality which is extremely painful. I have 3 accounts but can only use one at a time. In order to have full use of each account's folders, send & receive, I have to log out and log back in. The old format supported a mailbox manager which made this very easy & painless.

    They claim they are working on it but I have my doubts. I am in the process of migrating to another mail service so this will just accelerate that process.

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    "The Register" is no better

    And for all "The Register " users who hate the new re-design from a few months ago. Will we have the choice of switching back to the old look?

  52. J
    Gates Horns

    @iPhone "Upgrade your browser"

    Yeah, as others noted, same here with K/Ubuntu plus Firefox. It complains.

    In the old version, clicking on "continue blah blah" was fine and everything worked, as far as I could tell. In the new one, which I just went to see (since I don't really use my Hotmail account, it's just a junk account), clicking on the "continue" link seems to work... but doesn't. Try to compose a message, no go. Everything below the subject line is disabled (formatting toolbar and text area).

    Using the user agent switcher in FF (I put IE 7, Vista ) takes care of that but then clicking the "To:" button to get addresses does not work. It all means, I believe, that it's not a problem with either OS or browser per se. Instead it's deliberate breaking of the site for some users. Or just complete incompetence, but this is MS, so what would you expect?

    BG is gone, can't we have a Ballmer one now?

  53. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge
    Gates Horns

    The other end is broken too

    At the other end of things, I noticed that Hotmail is not accepting abuse complaints for spam again. Why? Because the spam complaint contains spam, of course. Back into my blacklist they go. You'd think MS would want to know if spammers were using MS Hotmail's servers to sell cracked MS products.

  54. Daniel B.
    Gates Halo

    Hotmail

    Well, I've been using their revamped "interface" since they first released it as a "beta". BTW, it does have "mark as read", but that's done with the right-button context menu (yes, they're trying to do some kind of Web Outlook interface.) It isn't that bad, but I do hate its IE-centric insistence.

    The funny thing is why I opted in for this in the first place: it was to jump from 250Mb to 2Gb inbox space. Hotmail is the only service I know of that strayed behind a lot on Inbox quotas.

    Yahoo offered 25Mb, Hotmail 2Mb.

    Yahoo ups to 100Mb, Hotmail 2Mb.

    Gmail comes up, offers 1Gb; Yahoo ups to 250Mb .... Hotmail's *still* stuck at 2Mb.

    Hell, when Hotmail decided to up themselves to 250Mb, they did it *by region*; meaning all non-US users were still stuck with 2Mb. Fortunately, a temporary change I had made in 1998 left my Hotmail addy with a US RL address, so I got the upgrade. The only thing MS got, was that most of their non-US users suddenly "moved" to Beverly Hills; Hotmail asks for a Zip Code, and well, there's that early 90's show with a zip code for its title!!

    So basically, Hotmail ceased to be the main option for most because Gmail, and even Yahoo! were giving giant inboxes, while Hotmail stuck to 2Mb's for way too long (2004?), which given Hotmail's spam volume meant that your inbox was filling up in a matter of hours. Those of us who still have Hotmail addys, have them only because of MSN Messenger. Otherwise, I'd hint Hotmail would be dead for quite a while by now...

  55. ChessGeek

    Opera

    I don't get or keep a lot of mail on my Hotmail account, but it loaded in Opera and looked fine. I have a widescreen monitor - maybe they formatted for the wider screens?

  56. Alex D
    Flame

    Load times, screen real estate?

    Absolute bollocks.

    Has anyone tried to refresh their inbox page? takes about 30seconds to do... faster my ass.

    Even worse, Microsoft seem to have fogotten what we actually use hotmail for. I dont want my page taken up with nothin but tabs and folder options, I want to see the email I am reading/writing. Why have they put the folder options to take up half the screen when I am writing an email??

    Flame them, Flame them good!

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    OPERA - Works here!

    It wouldn't work for me in Opera either a few days ago - Everything I clicked was dead.

    But then I clicked on 'Check for updates' on the Tools menu, which also looks for updates to Opera's default user Javascript file and then it all worked again!

    Well done to Opera for including this feature out of the box and for updating the Javascript patches for Hotmail so quickly! It's just a shame there isn't an option to push out 'emergancy' updates for important sites like Hotmail. Normally the Javascript file is checked for updayes once per week.

    So, if you're having trouble with Opera on the new Hotmail, try doing that and see if it helps you too.

  58. Jodo Kast

    Free does not equal garbage

    Some posters seem to think Free = Garbage.

    GeeMail and Yahoo! Mail work great, provide multiple interfaces (even MOBILE)...

    I guess these are Microsoft fanboys?

  59. Robert Oakes
    Happy

    WTF??? Get A Life.......

    What the hell are people complaining for??? Its a free service for god's sake,if you dont like the new hotmail, then don't start whinging and whining about it, move to a new email provider!!!! i for one like the new hotmail, because it works a lot more like outlook,

    i wonder when the groups on facebook will start - "Bill Gates Said If I Get 1,000000000 People To Join He Said..."

    get a life......

  60. Abstract8

    Firefox works for me

    WinXP with 800 x 600 res. 'Had to resize to see folders using Win IE 6.x.

    Now using Windows version of Firefox and I see them. I still have to do some left-right scrolling but it sure helps

  61. Kevin Eastman
    Flame

    Re: WTF??? Get A Life.......

    It doesn't matter if it is free or not, it should still work, and if it doesn't, people have a right to complain. To me, it looks just like they did with Hotmail what they did with Office 2007, and totally F**ked it up. After using Word 2007 for 2 months, I still haven't figured out how to do a "Save As" or "Print" so I can select a different printer if I wanted to. The only reason I was able to use Office 2007 was because I new the DOS keyboard shortcuts. It's pretty bad when you have to use things from 20 years ago to get your new fancy dancy interfaces to work. What's this have to do with Hotmail. Simple, you have people whining the people are complaining how they broke a free product, well, they did it with their commercial product as well, so by their logic I'm allowed to complain.

  62. Richard Porter
    Thumb Down

    Hotmail has gone down the pan

    The reply format is totally broken. The quoted text is shown with indent strings ("> ") but with NO line feeds.

  63. Simon Harris Silver badge

    @ Gordon Grant - marking and headers

    GG> I also hate that there is no "mark as READ" option like well practically every other web based e-mail service..

    Strange it's not there for you - there is on mine - a drop down menu 'Mark as' just above the list of emails with options 'Read' 'Unread' 'Phishing scam'.

    GG> Also I just want to see the message headers if I wanted to see the e-mail I'd open it..

    Switch off the preview in the Options menu then - you get a choice of where the preview goes, or no preview at all, so all you get is the list of Sender, Title and Date (or time for recent emails) and you can delete the spam and viruses to your heart's content without ever opening them.

    Still unless I've missed it somewhere, it's a pity you can't view the full headers if you want them - bonus! points! to! Yahoo! mail! on! that! one!

  64. Kevin Reader
    Paris Hilton

    Broken on win98 and winME with seamonkey (mozilla)

    Its impossible to create an email from a mozilla/seamonkey/firefox browser under either win98 or winME. The main email body edit control does not appear. There is a sense (?) you can tab to it as the curser/caret disappears, but you cannot type anything.

    You can address the email and add a subject though. They've clearly done a classic M$oft and coded it to only work reliable on IE+Windows/Latest. With a bit of grudging support for XP. Which is even more stupid than usual since its an in-browser interface and any sane person would atleast try to be platfom nostic.

    Paris - cos of the disappearing carot and as you cannot touch the body... She has shown more more talent (!) than any microsoft developer is allowed to.

  65. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RE no Hotmail autoforward

    I have an autoforward set up from Hotmail which hits my free inbox.com account (with 2GB storage)

  66. Ty Cobb
    Thumb Up

    @Kevin Eastman

    Kevin, have you tried clicking on the button icon on the upper left of Office 07 for save as and all the other options?

  67. Jason404
    Boffin

    Not *that* bad

    It would be much better with more colour schemes to choose from, and the option to change the font to something less accessibility friendly.

  68. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    MSN Woes

    I mainly use Hotmail because of Messenger, and my 100 plus contacts, but even that's been suffering delusions of adequacy recently, with messages just not being delivered, bouncing, or being delivered several times over, or even delivering my IM's to me via Hotmail.

    Perhaps that's the M$ strategy... that way they can tell everyone that the number of-emails being sent by Hotmail is increasing!

  69. Pete
    Stop

    They changed it?

    Been using Hotmail through Outlook for years, I've not logged into the real site for just as long,

  70. Joel
    Jobs Horns

    Hotmail?

    What sensible person would use a service named Hotmail anyway? Yuck.

  71. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think it is better

    Subjectively it does seem faster to me, and I think the new UI looks somewhat better too.

  72. Jason Sheldon
    Gates Horns

    Yay.. broken on iPhone..

    It's now impossible to reply to emails using the new Hotmail interface on an iPhone...

    I wonder if that's by design?

  73. Carrie
    Paris Hilton

    hotmail, really?

    people STILL use that piece of shite? Really?

    it's only good for spam and signing up for msg boards

    having worked for a few smarty-pants companies, one of the more common criteria for dismissing someone's resume is a hotmail address. As one bigwig put it: "Having a hotmail address just shows how stupid you are. We don't want dinosaurs here."

    Paris: cuz she definitely has a hotmail address

  74. Kevin Eastman
    Thumb Up

    @Ty Cobb

    Well Duh to me. Thanks Ty, that's exactly what I was looking for. For years, in most programs, that icon has just had Maximize, Minimize, Close etc. attached to it. I never even thought to check there. Thank you for that, it has just made my life so much easier.

  75. Danny Silver badge

    Flashy soliciting

    I agree with Steve, the biggest change is that you can't scroll away from the header advert. So there is less screen for my thoughts and more screen for some crappy marketing morons idea of flash. I uninstalled the beta last week for that reason, and then had it imposed on me again. Plus the evening they imposed the change my emails were delayed. I'll probably just redirect my mail from that account, even free it isn't worth it.

  76. Mark Simon
    Gates Horns

    Hidden Agenda

    Seems to me that M$ is just trying to prove what it has always maintained: you get what you pay for. Fee web browser (Internet Exploiter), free web mail (NotSoHotMail), anybody who voluntarily relies on them is being punished for their ignorance.

    Oddly, though, the competition don't seem to get the hint. They do insist on supplying a service or product that actually does a good job.

  77. Chika
    Happy

    Hotmail is intrinsically broken

    It has been for years, almost as long as Microsoft has owned it. Worked fine before that.

    CHANGE IT BACK!!!

  78. Steen Hive
    Joke

    HTML Email

    WTF? Arses who send HTML mail? Hanging's too good for 'em.

  79. David Shea
    Stop

    To those keeping a hotmail account because of MSN

    It doesn't require a hotmail account - or at least it hasn't so far. Been using it with my non-MS email account for years.

  80. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    2pence - three comments

    I quite like it (superficially) but:

    1 - Constantly having to resize the page just to be able to check if there is anything in the Junk Mail box is not convenient.

    2 - Constantly having to mark emails from a friend as "not junk" but knowing that this instruction is never remembered is not encouraging.

    3 - Option to mark a potential phisching email has been removed so the only option now is to constantly junk/delete unwanted crap or to add yet another rule to ignore anything from the domain yahoo.fr (etc) which is just bloody ignorant.

    ...and, as an afterthought, after installing "live" the email inbox page has a lovely little link for "So, what do you think" ... the funniest thing is - all it does is open the page to download and install "live" ... what a fekkin arse.

  81. Greg

    mobile.live.com

    Doesn't work in FF on a desktop, but on my PS3 (hush!) mobile.live.com bypasses the whole problem. Works on Opera and IE on my PDA, too. Doesn't let you have attachments though, the little arse.

  82. Anthony Shortland
    Flame

    great.

    >Nobody ueses the lame ass service anymore so who cares?

    ah another geek completely in touch with the average user. excellent comment. Well done.

  83. Martin
    Paris Hilton

    @ Daniel B

    Daniel,

    your 2mb limit must be due to your customer profile?

    my hotmail has a 5GB inbox, currenly with 15% usage... so plenty of head room.

    ok, its not the best, its better than yahoo my "other" main account is GMail.

    the only reason i keep the hotmail is continuity..... ui have had a hotmail account since @1998 ... so everyone knows it and doesnt have to keep changing every 5 minute!

  84. Simon B
    Happy

    give it time

    When the new design came out it was VERY slow. It's now up to speed, and although I STILL say the old interface was way quicker I like the new interface and find it much more friendly. Maybe I like it becasue I use outlook express and it resembles it's layout, although if I recall I had to set up how the panes were displayed.

    Give it time and I've very sure most people will come round.

  85. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Its free so f.o.a.d

    Read the title, dont need to say anything else

  86. ThumperZ1
    Thumb Down

    Hate It

    I haven't been able to "print selection" with the new one. Anybody else have this problem?

  87. Richard
    Thumb Down

    Doesn't work properly in Firefox 3.

    Am I the only person having trouble with the new Hotmail in Firefox (and Opera!)? If I load my mail in Firefox then sometimes when I select 'Reply' the window that appears with the rich text editor is 'inactive' and text cannot be entered in it. Then, when I tried to load the same thing in Opera then the text window works but is formatted to a tiny window in the top-left of the available space on the message pane.

    What a crock of rubbish. I wish all my friends would send me e-mails to Gmail...

  88. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Outlook Express / Tablet Edition

    For those who liked Hotmail with Outlook Express, there is Windows Live Mail to replace it. Seems a bit slower to start up, but does seem to be more robust.

    Also, I use a tablet PC, and found that when I start to reply I have to open the input panel manually at the bottom of the screen, rather than an icon appearing next to the cursor.

    A minor thing, but very annoying as the old version worked, and I can't get back!

  89. Turgut Kalfaoglu

    there are still hotmail users?

    There are still hotmail users? I thought everyone fled once Microsoft bought hotmail?

    Those that stay behind, deserve the treatment, IMHO.

  90. John

    New Hotmail - Flawed

    Some people, maybe most people, will never be happy with change. In this instance I think the complaints are entirely justified.

    Firstly, unless I am mistaken, it is now longer possible to display more than 25 messages per page. That is not an improvement and by itself makes the 'new and improved' version inferior to it's previous incarnation.

    Secondly, it's hideous. Not a matter of opinion, a matter of fact.

    In order for the page to be displayed as it was intented, clear-type fonts are a necessity. If like me you don't want to, or can't, use clear-type than it is really, really bad. Not just that I don't like it, but that it is obvioulsy not supposed to appear how it actually does appear. Try disabling clear-type, including windows and browser settings, and you'll see what I mean.

  91. James
    Thumb Down

    Rule Change

    I am guessing that the rules for the number of times messages can be forwarded have changed. I used to use a forwarding account list to send messages to and just recently all of the messages forwarded to Hotmail accounts have been bounced with the "Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, because the message was forwarded more than the maximum allowed times. This could indicate a mail loop." message. I have tried complaining to Microsoft, but so far it seems to have fallen on deaf ears (no surprise there).

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