EU plans cross border database of rogue motorists

Great!

Now the Government will be able to lose data about millions of foreigners as well as it's own people...

sounds useful but...

so did the terror laws until they got abused. What are these MEP's likely to authorise this system to be used for, tracking our every movement? Fining us for stopping mm's too close to a stop sign? for being mm's near a double yellow? for farting while in control of a vehicle?

Maybe i've just had my trust destroyed by our evil overlording bastard control-freak lying toerag politicians but hey

All motorists are (of course) rogues

> four offences - speeding, drink-driving, non-use of a seatbelt and failing to stop at a red traffic light - which currently account for some for 75 per cent of road deaths.

I think not. But doubtless there is on MEP intent on fining motorists for possessing furry dice or for labelling the windscreen "His Hers".

the hidden sacrifices of x-border databases.....

been doing this in Europe for years so it's no surprise that the UK will introduce this, the real shame in the Netherlands of course was the demise of the Dutch Porsche 911 Carrera Police cars (now there's a company car) that were used to catch the German motorists who raced to the border, now of course they can simply radio ahead to their German counterparts...... don't be surprised to if you meet than your family went you exit the Chunnel !!!

It's all very well but

As the guy steering this is Spanish let's take an example:

I'm driving in Spain on me hols. I arrive back in Blighty and some weeks later get a fine through the post. It's completely unjustified as I didn't do what they are accusing me of.

It's going to cost me a fortune to go back to Spain and contest it. So in effect it's an easy way for the Spanish to generate some cash.

Don't forget Spain is just an example, before I get complaints :-)

Hope it stops the eastern Europeans...

around here sharing their cars and driving without licenses and insurance on UK roads!

Halve road deaths? Good motive.

"...speeding...[etc]...account for some for 75 per cent of road deaths....extending...to cover other traffic infringements such as driving whilst under the influence of drugs, using mobile phones or uninsured....part of a European Commission initiative to halve road deaths..."

So how many road deaths are actually caused by foreigners doing these things? I know "many a mickke maks a muckle" but this is teaspoon-to-ocean stuff, surely?

@ Matt

No problem - just clone someone else's number plate while you're abroad. Then that person will be the one faced with having to go to Spain to explain himself - and take his witnesses that he was in Blighty with him.

4 offences...

>speeding, drink-driving, non-use of a seatbelt and failing to stop at a red traffic

>light - which currently account for some for 75 per cent of road deaths.

Oh really? In what way do these specifically cause road deaths then? I think you'll find that all of these need to actually result in a crash of some kind before someone dies... Running a red light or being a drink-driver may make you *more likely* to crash but that's still an influencing factor rather than a direct cause. These offences could all be argued as 'inadvisable' but never *inherently* fatal!

After you have crashed and killed someone (and one of these four offences turns out to have led to the crash) the local manslaughter/murder laws would apply. I remain to be convinced this isn't just revenue-raising tactics.

Autos Cause 100% of Road Deaths

All the other things mentioned are simply (possibly) contributing factors.

The only way to guarantee road safety is to get rid of the autos.

Yeh, go for the racist vote. Fuck the EU.

So can I get pan European insurance? Nope, only 3rd party, only limited time.

So can I use a car registered in one country in another? Nope, UK seizes cars it see twice over six months on foreign plates as does Greece. So can we get the MOT unified? Nope. Can I even transfer the registration from one country to another? Nope, if you change residency you can move it within 6 months tax 'free', hah, it costs about 1000 euros a throw, 2500 for Greece (they call it an 'administration' fee). (Change of insurance, plus retest plus new registration costs, plus car sales tax if you're just working there not moving there). Perhaps you've unified the tax on petrol? No.

Nothing positive, nothing beneficial. 8 years of anti people shit from Europe.

So you're going to give a mechanism for each state to get the details of every driver from every other state with no check on the truthfulness of the claim, and it won't be abused unlike every other time it's been abused? Yeh this time it will be different.

Fuck the EU. Really, as a former pro EU citizen, fuck off, we've had nothing but anti-citizen work from the last 8 years, I'm sick of hearing how all Europes problems are caused by the *OTHER* EU citizens. I'm sick of hearing how Britains problems are caused by Germans and Poles, how Germany's problems are the French, fook off.

They have on the spot fines right across Europe and it works well, you have the persons id and passport when you did the breath test. Nobody needs another anti-citizen directive pandering to the racist vote.

Time and fair play...

First: Are they going to be able to get an NIP equivalent (anything which requires the driver of the vehicle to incriminate themselves in exchange for a fixed penalty) to the /first/ contact available within 14 days?

Second: Will they be able to issue this within six months?

Third: If they don't issue the notification within six months, does it then become invalid?

And fair play. I'm sick to death of foreign-registered HGVs which ignore UK laws; maybe finally the UK can get these truck drivers into line. Assuming, of course, there's a copper about to stop them.

Of course, I'd find these things less offensive if we'd just remove one bloated layer of Government and either adopt a fully integrated "United States of Europe" model or tell the EU to get lost. One or the other.

Surely though

As far as we (in the UK) are concerned the only issue is foreign drivers breaking UK laws in the UK. It is up to other countries to police their own roads.

There are a couple of problems here that I think would need to be addressed; foreign drivers committing an offense and long term punishment relating to the offense(s)

The first should be fairly straightforward. For stuff like drink driving you will need to stop the car, at which point you breathalyse the driver and penalise them. OK some stuff about bail and returning to court might need to be ironed out but that should not be too difficult to manage.

For things that show on cameras it is also quite easy: you clock the number plate and you log it to border control*. When the car attempts to leave you impound the driver and implement the appropriate fine / punishment. Job done.

The more complicated issue is on returning bad drivers, such as if a German citizen (say) is caught and punished for drink driving. Under current rules, AFAIK the UK cannot endorse a German license and the German authorities are unlikely to agree to do so for an offense committed abroad. However under UK laws and normalities a drink driver would be banned for at least 12 months.

Currently nothing is stopping the German from returning to the UK 2 weeks later and driving legally. However, dealing with this should be quite straightforward, just log the guy's details when he is caught and publish them to border control, the filth and care rental companies. You back this up with an automatic ASBO preventing them driving in the UK for the duration of what would have been the ban as they are prosecuted. With a mandatory prison sentence if breached.

Not perfect, but as good as if you were dealing with a UK citizen.

*and also the filth just in case we are dealing with a resident foreigner who has "forgotten" to register his foreign car in the UK.

No difference really - they can fine you now.

I got a fine for speeding from Belgian authorities. I was riving a car registered in Germany so it was sent to my German address. As they couldn't give points, they gave the maximum fine instead.

I know of two non-Germans who were allowed to "go home carefully" after failing breath tests. Foreign licenses mean more paperwork and the police here can't be bothered.

The Germans do give points to foreign lcense holders - they log them in their central database in Flensburg, the same as they do for Germans. Of course, these are entirely separate from points issued in other countries.

They also have no problem with driving bans: anyone banned has to report to a police station and handover their license. The police don't care who issued it - they just keep it until the end of the ban.

British companies enforcing fixed penalties for parking have no problem chasing Germans who transgressed in London.

What's the UKIP comment got to do with the rest of article?

Once again, I don't get the anger against the EU everytime something gets decided in Brussels. Are we able to make a difference between a stupid decision and a reasonable one without assuming it's stupid just because it's "made in Brussels"?

Logically, if it's a cross border problem (and this one is), we need a cross border solution. Then we can comment on the effectiveness of the solution.

If it were a purely UK problem, the smart comment by this UKIP guy would (maybe) make some sense (not too sure, though).

And btw, international calls did get cheaper (whether we think this was an urgent problem to solve, it's another matter).

And, Giovà: "European fines collection"? The infamous EU will not a get a penny (or a eurocent) from the fines. being more British than the Brits ;)