back to article Jacqui Smith kick-starts yoof ID debate site, site kick stops

Fresh from its success in selling ID cards to the aviation industry, the Home Office has moved straight on to young people with a 'have your say' online forum, mylifemyid.org. The site is fronted by a video of Home Secretary Jacqui Smith getting down with the yoof of Shooters Hill College. Or at least it was - the site went …

COMMENTS

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  1. Stuart Moore
    Thumb Up

    Despite their best efforts...

    ... it seems New Labour haven't yet managed to brainwash the 'young people'...

  2. Steve

    Whaky Jacqui strikes again.

    Given that I do not know one single adult who believes a word she says, what makes her think that she's going to be able to "reach the kids" when the only reason any of them will see for having an ID card is to make life easier for the police when they are stopping and searching you?

  3. Eponymous Cowherd
    Black Helicopters

    Target the Yoofs

    I see.

    One of the biggest obstacles the Gov't has with ID cards is the resistance from older people who remember a time when Big Brother was just a character in a story.

    Solution?

    Create a web site aimed specifically at yoofs in order to indoctrinate them without interference from busy-body old fossils.

    Nice black helicopter, for obvious reasons.

  4. Ash
    Thumb Down

    Slashdotted...

    .... before Slashdot got to it.

    A new record!

    Please, somebody in the right place start the No Confidence process so we can tell these idiots to piss off.

  5. Nomen Publicus
    Flame

    "my life my id"?

    I've never found an answer to the problem of changing names when the ID card insanity is upon us. For example, if a woman gets married and changes surname, will she be charged to get an updated ID? How can a government policy that has nothing to do with gender treat men and women differently just because of historical convention?

  6. Michael

    Well it's up now

    Except by the look of it, the forums just got wiped.

  7. Steven
    Stop

    HAHA

    That forum is bloody hilarious. The only positive views for ID cards are one by the guy hosting the site (i.e. being paid by the government) and a moderator (probably another government paid lacky.

    So funny how they say the system will be great with no explanation as to why and then get shot down by everyone else who's registered! Lol

    Sign up and help put a stop to this madness!!!

  8. Xander
    Thumb Down

    Access Denied

    When you register you get an Access Denied page for all the pages.

    Real free speech there, Ms Smith.

  9. Guy
    Alert

    For my title see my ID card

    Well the site appears to be back up.

    Some interesting comments as noted. My favourite so far has to be in reply to the discussion on Facebook, the initial post by the admin asking why we're worried about a central database of ID when we already give up more information on the likes of Facebook.

    The first reply given was 'I haven't invited the government to be my friend on facebook'

    And I mean, seriously, who would?

  10. Peter

    More bollox

    Despite my experience with many years of petty crime, vandalism, sex, drugs and rock 'n roll they won't let me contribute to the debate. Too old!

    WANKERS!

    P.

  11. Jeremy
    Thumb Up

    My Life My ID

    Yep! So get your bloody filthy mitts off it!

  12. Eddie Edwards
    Pirate

    @ Nomen

    "How can a government policy that has nothing to do with gender treat men and women differently just because of historical convention?"

    Er, the woman can always choose not to take her husband's name, if she doesn't think historical convention is worth it. Or she could get the husband to pay, if she does :)

    The policy does not treat men and women differently. The historical convention does. Cart. Horse.

    IIRC there was a lot of work involved when my wife (half) took my surname. It may be *less* work for women if they just have to update the id card and the banks, employer, landlord etc. get the change pushed to them. Which is obviously what everyone wants :lol:

  13. b
    Thumb Up

    Glorious

    mehehehe

  14. N Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    diddnt load...

    Got fed up waiting, probably a load of shite anyway

  15. Michael

    @Access Denied

    They've expressly stated that only people who put their age as under 25 will be able to contribute.

    I'm pretty sure this violates the spirit of their brand new anti-ageism laws they've just been harping on about. But hey. who expects consistency from the home office?

  16. Martin

    The mod sounds familiar

    Reading the moderators replies, they seemed strangely familiar.

    Than it came back to me - The old Eliza programs where you try to have a conversation with a machine. http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza/eliza.html

    You: How do we stop ID cards

    Eliza: Does that question interest you?

    You: Labour have shot themselves in the foot again with this ID card nonsense.

    Eliza: Please go on.

  17. Peter

    Well that's pretty poor.

    Following my first attempt to log in to mylifemyid.org I sent a comment to the Register saying I thougt that as a life long petty criminal, vandal and sex, drugs and rock 'n roll enthusiast I should be able to have a say in the yoof dedate...

    I then went back to the site (without reboot or anything) and this time said I was 20 yrs old and using my same email address was able to complete my registration and can now contribute.

    What a load of rubbish!

    P.

  18. Phil Hare
    Black Helicopters

    RE: Access Denied

    Same experience here. I wonder if it's because I put "Strongly Disagree" down as my feelings about the scheme? Hmmm...

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I won't be holding my breath but...

    From the myths section:

    "But what the Government does not have, and nor do you, is a fail proof system that can prove you really are who you say you are."

    "fail proof"? Really?

  20. Xander
    Stop

    Irony

    A quick addition. This whole thing is about what we think about our ID being stuck to a single card, right? So why are the Shooters Hill people all anonymous? Surely they'd have nothing to fear from putting their real ID? After all, what can anyone do with your ID?

  21. Phil Hare
    Paris Hilton

    RE: Access Denied

    I retract my last comment. It's more likely it's because I didn't click on the link in their email.

    Paris, because she would have spotted my mistake.

  22. Scott
    Coat

    Why waste your time

    Why watse you time venting your splean on the web site when as already shown when Ms Smith took live questions on the interweb all questions where screened so she only got the brown nosers, what makes people think she or the goverment is even going to look at this?

    I just hope they have the usual IT hitches so it gets delayed until this unelected goverment gets humiliated out at the next election and the blues stick to there guns and scarp this waste of time and money.

    Viva le Revolution!!!

    Old Jackys like my mum good at mum things but has no idea about the real world.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Heart

    Brilliant...

    From one of the yoof moderators...

    http://www.mylifemyid.org/node/206

    Don't know about you, but the current system with loads of different ID cards from student cards to bank cards is a real pain. In the future, I think it is going to be so much easier when we can carry round just one card which we can use for everything.

    This site is the best laugh I've had today it's just so blatant (and shit)

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    I managed to register...

    ... sneakily bypassing the cunning and advanced age verification system in order to post a few rude words.

    Who gives a custard cream anyway, it's only criminals who cannot be traced, the rest of us can be tracked to within a few hundred feet of our location at any given time.

    Labour will be out soon, then we get the chance to have a big old moan at the Conservatives again!

    Paris because she's better than Jacqui Smith (A kick in the gonads is better than Jacqui Smith for that matter)

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Remeber Kids..

    Don't trust anyone over 30!

    *\. Mines the one with NO2ID on the back.

  26. Scott
    Paris Hilton

    Shooter 13

    They got there own Twat-o-Tron, check the shooters hill discussion, not one comment is written in 'proper' english?

    PH cause she makes more sense

  27. Tom

    cynical

    I thought I was cynical, but the idea that young people will be lucky to benefit from being the first ones to have ID cards forced on them really takes the cake.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Good to see

    When I looked in the first thing I saw was a guy using the word Nazi's in connection with HMG.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Turkeys and Christmas

    When you are young there are many things you are told not to do. Some of these are enshrined as laws. Some young people disagree with these laws and wish to change them. I would go so far as to state that if a young person does not want to change the world in some way, then they are abnormal. The young will not help you enforce a system of telling them what they can do.

    P.S. If this government believes that all the current laws need better enforcement then why do they keep on legislating and have a department devoted to better regulation.

  30. Paul

    compulsion is inevitable

    ...and what the police don't currently have is a general right to stop you and ask for 'fail safe' proof of identity. The ID card plans inevitably lead there, none of the claimed benefits against terrorism and illegal immigration work without it.

    Its also inevitable: if it can be abused government (and their tools) will abuse it. This is another repeat of the 'sus' laws of the 70's, persistently abused in a racist way that caused nothing but civil disorder.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    English?

    "...not one comment is written in 'proper' english?..."

    You expect English from the semi-educated Special Snowflakes the current "education" system is geared towards turning out? Get with 21st Century Britain, oldtimer...

    In spite of the icon, meant to denote lack of personal vitriol, there's more truth than I'm comfortable with in this comment... :(

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Patronising?

    Jaqui Smith? Patronising? Surely not? I find that a hard one to swallow.

    PH, naturally.

  33. captainmcdan

    Fantastic youtube picture

    that's not the home secretary!

  34. Bradley Smith
    Thumb Up

    Young people only?

    Don't let that put you off having your say (if you're over 25).

    As this country lacks a robust identity card scheme you can simply pretend to be young by lying about your age on the signup form!

  35. This post has been deleted by its author

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    @Paul

    I say bring on the civil disorder then!

    //Mines the one with the V for Vendetta "Guy Fawkes" mask in the pocket.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I want to send this to ips.gov.uk but I'm concerned that I'll be flagged up somewhere

    Hi,

    I've been reading up information on your website and have some questions:

    1. How exactly will my biometrics be ‘sealed to’ or permanently paired with my biographical information?

    2. My card will be sent by 'secure delivery'. Can you please define what is meant by 'secure delivery'?

    3. This line concerns me:

    "This will make it harder for someone to pretend to be another person when applying for an ID card."

    'harder' for someone to pretend to be me? In the case of potential identity theft the word 'harder' has the same meaning as 'possible' doesn't it? And once that forged data is 'permanently sealed' then what?

    Thanks for your time!

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    <no title>

    IMO "Old timers" should not comment over there too much, after all it is supposed to be a youth forum. That said, a few comments to counteract the pro ethos of the site itself, should not cause anyone any sleepless nights.

    They can have my fingerprints when they prise them from my cold dead hands ;-)

  39. Frumious Bandersnatch Silver badge

    of yoof and age

    Huw Gently here. The last line really had me chuffed:

    > Perhaps she should try to kick more gently.

    But that aside, isn't this whole thing of the elders trying to shove their morals and worldviews down the yoofs throats a bit old itself? Is Jacqui a Jesuit by any chance? Smacks of the "get em while they're young" approach.

    Cheers,

    Huw

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Well the progress is promising!

    In the words of Top Gear "That's not gone well".

    Day of launch and the anti-Labour anti-ID anti-Gordon anti-Smith bile is flowing nicely. I particularly like the person registered as Gordon Brown, that's some quality identity theft right there!

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    My Goodness

    I couldn't see one single post in support. The closest I saw was a sort of "I guess it won't cause diarrhea, but that don't mean we should eat it." kind of post.

  42. kain preacher Silver badge

    National ID

    If the UK really wants a national ID card , do it the way the US sneaked it in. Turn your Driver licenses or state ID into a national ID. This was done with the real ID act.. Now states dont have to conform and its completely voluntary on the states part. Oh yeah any state that does not comply, your drivers license or state ID is no longer considered valid ID in the eyes of the federal government and there for can not not used as ID be used for air travel . Oh yeah and and now for a driver license to comply you must give thumb print.

    So just turn the DL into a national ID card. Tell people they dont need it unless they plan to drive or travel.or get a job.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    @peter

    Well, if they're all wankers, you best make sure to stay out of their reach or they'll be jerking you around for sure!

  44. Michael
    Flame

    managed or represented?

    Governments exist through the permission of the people. NOT the other way around. I don't need a license from NuLabour to exist in my own country.

  45. JCL
    Stop

    Cynicism Rules

    Well, I may be an old cynic, but how long do you think the site will be up for before the govt claims that it has been hijacked by a vocal minority/older people being bad and lying about their age, and isn't representative of the views of young people? The govt seems to think that young = stupid and are being proved so very wrong!

    Also, isn't the national database scheme at the ministry of information more than a little worrying when you also read about the criminal record checks being wrong more often than right? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/09/vetting_checks/

    I've nothing to hide, if I did I'd never find it again.

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    I'm an old fart

    and live outside the UK but managed to register more than once using the same e-mail address. I wonder how many ID cards I will be able to get when they come out. I'm just off to create a new e-mail address in Jaqui's name and see if I can register as her. Maybe we should all try that!

    It's not the UK helicopters that worry me, they keep all those locked up to stop the RAF getting them dirty.

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Irony that people don't use their real names

    Isn't it ironic that most people post as anonymous and almost nobody uses their real names or details. For a measure designed to take away their anonymity in normal day to day interactions that's pretty damning. Even the people in support hide their details.

    Still, at least we can still make anonymous criticisms of Jacqui Smiths incompetence, even if we soon won't be able to protest on the streets without getting out identity taken.

    Jacqui Smith handiwork continues to increase: says taking photos is no crime, unless an officer decides it is:

    http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/06/uk-home-secretary-gr.html

    This appalls me, an officer way way out of control, demands some form of identity..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKl2sEN4yNM

    I read on Jacqui's comments that the identity card would be link to a Biography (data about your life) and I find it horrifying that assholes like this would be able to get access to my private data.

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    elReg should host the discussion

    Just reading, 'David Blunkett' (ha ha) points out that the shooters hill discussion

    http://mylifemyid.org/node/178?page=1

    has a series of comments (mostly in favour) of ID cards all posted within a few minutes of each other, all in the morning before the official launch. Look fake. Posted around 9:30 in the morning with the responses from people posted late in the day after the launch.

    Clearly they planted comments to frame the debate and lead the kids to frame their comments in terms of the bullet points they have prepared answer to. But it does lead me to my point.

    To have an honest debate, we can't leave HM.gov to run the website because they have a history of faking evidence and comments. So it would make more sense if elReg were to host a debate between Jacqui Smith and real people.

  49. Edward Pearson
    Flame

    Get em while they're young...

    Thats right, can't convince the voting adults so lets target the more impressionable children.

    And now a word from our sponsor, the BNP:

    Hey kids? Life getting you down? In trouble at school? ASBOs? Looking for some answers? Well look no further: Immigrants did it. Thats right kids, immigration is killing this country, and also, it's killing your pets. Last year immigrants caused about 4600m² of GLOBAL WARMING which is why teenagers sometime sometimes feel depressed, anxious or misunderstood.

    We need to deport them all, close the borders and then presumably, everything will be fine.

    A lot of "adult" people don't agree with our views, but if you vote when you're old enough for us LIFE WILL BE ONE HUNDERED PERCENT BETTER. We also have free sweets, and lemonade. Big smile for the camera...

    How is this any different? With either policy, people tend to lean either toward apathy or extremism, and I don't see why having failed to convince the adults in the country, the government feels it has the right to indoctrinate the children into supporting them.

    Luckly they failed miserably! Kids these days far are too street wise through trying to become coke dealing hiphop artists to fall for this kind of bullshit.

    Viva La Revolución!!!

  50. dek
    Paris Hilton

    Hmmm...

    When I saw this on the news today I was dismayed to see mainly (only?) positive views from the young people that the Blair-now-Brown Broadcasting Corporation had bothered to interview (or should that be "bothered to broadcast"?). My first thought was "now there's a good reason for increasing the voting age!". Hopefully this whole cringe worthy exercise will back-fire big time, especially when the victims, after a few seconds reflection (ok, maybe longer) realise this is the same bunch trying to keep them in school (aka out of the jobless figures) to 21 or older and saddling them with a life time of debt for the pleasure.

    Oh, and while I am firing on all 0.5 cylinders: Brown said recently re growing economic crisis that a "global problem needs a global solution", ugh, helloooo, isn't the *real* problem already spelt out twice in that sentence? Are there any journo's with a backbone and a voice left today or have they all been retired or shunted off to game shows, leaving us with retards like Andrew "Yes Prime Minister" Marr. Grrrrr.

    Paris, just because, ok

  51. Pyros

    @Kain Preacher

    Here's some backup from Florida: http://www.flhsmv.gov/html/dlnew.html

    I never even knew about this bit. Now I know why I have to get my driver's licence out at the airport. :P

  52. Jims

    twat-o-tron

    I just found this comment from a fellow el reg fan, comment http://www.mylifemyid.org/node/263

  53. Mike Richards

    Bliss

    Part of me likes to think that Jacqui Smith is in her office sacking the bright-young-thing who came up with to the idea of this site. But a much larger part of me hopes she remains blissfully unaware for a bit longer.

    As spin-doctoring operations go mylifemyid is a John Redwood / Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau moment.

    Can we look forward to daily 'best-of's?

  54. night troll
    Pirate

    What that site needs....

    is a strong dose of goatse!

    Why is it you can never find a hacker when you need one? :-))

  55. bob_blah
    Happy

    Best laugh I've had in ages

    The irony is just beautiful - they spend all this money on education, and funnily enough, the kids can think for themselves!

  56. Belxjander Serechai
    IT Angle

    Access Denied - Whats missing if it just errors on the main page post-signup?

    Access denied

    You do not have the required permissions to access this page. If you believe this message to be in error, please contact a site administrator.

    --

    and all I did was complete the signup process using a *secured* browser...

    I answered the signup honestly excepting actual age...

    too "simpleminded" a website if it gets broken by a simple "NoScript" plugin...

    does it have "Drive By Downloads" for IE users ?

    Just plain curiousity :)

    ***nyaan*** as the cats here in Japan say it...

    LOL

    IT? because where IS the intelligence if the technology IS the intelligence?

  57. Rande Knight

    From an old but increasingly relevant show

    "Blank is Beautiful!!"

  58. Pete James

    Hardly joined up Government

    This Government spends a ton of cash telling us all not to be ageist and then develops a policy of excluding people based on age from making a comment on the site.

    This Government bleats about older people not 'connecting' with younger citizens and then prevents them from doing so on this site.

    Or is it the policy now for this Gorvernment to divide and rule?

  59. Mr Larrington
    Joke

    @Peter

    Butbutbut if you had an ID card then The Database would know who you are, and wouldn't let you into the poxy forum on account of being ancient and decrepit. Or something.

    I've tried to register but so far it has steadfastly refused to e-mail me a confirmation. Wait, who are those men in dark suits crossing the ca p%*)_546546%$$$$* NO CARRIER

  60. Anonymous Coward
    Pirate

    @Xander

    Access denied after you register - absolutely correct.

    Of course I did manage to post a comment under the video on the home page.

    Power to the people!

  61. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    pleeeeez

    wont zumboddy just think ov de childrin.

  62. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    @Michael

    "I don't need a license from NuLabour to exist in my own country."

    Yes you do.

    Or at least, you will shortly.

    Oh - and you're being watched, mind.

  63. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    heh

    why hasn't someone given the siet to anonymous?

    For fear of CP and government spying I don't go to anonymous anymore.

  64. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    FOI Act?

    Anyone considered lodging a request under the FOI to find out how much tax payers money they wasted on that pile of propaganda peddling shite?

  65. Matt
    Happy

    Propaganda?

    How can anyone call this a propaganda site? When I looked I couldn't see anything pro id cards

  66. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    " lol "

    The problem with ID cards is that you don't know where it will end. Once they're in place anything could be tacked on (and more people can be allowed to access). Complete health records, criminal record, religion, sexuality, who you voted for, all email addresses, where you went on holiday....

    Hospitals/Doctors should only have your health records. Banks should only have your credit details. Police should only have your criminal records. It should not be a bloody free for all. It is not even relevant where you lived before. What possible benefit could there be to your doctor knowing what house you used to live in when you were 12?? Or anyone for that matter.. We all know that things like religion being given out ,

    How lame that they name-dropped facebook to look hip! Haha. The difference with Facebook is that people CHOOSE what to put on. Not all teens even have a facebook. Many who have one use fake details. Plus (in theory anyway) you can pretty much change/delete anything you want, anytime you want, on a webpage. You are in control.

    Young people want to be in control and left alone, so they are never going to win them over by forcing them to take part in something which is tracking them.

  67. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RE : FOI Act?

    " Anyone considered lodging a request under the FOI to find out how much tax payers money they wasted on that pile of propaganda peddling shite? "

    Well, evidently you have.

    What's wrong with you doing it?

  68. Charley

    Nothing to hide, Nothing to fear

    I guess they have nothing to hide.

    Funny how they don't have their home addresses on that page, when any schoolboy could go to Companies House (or their website) and get it.

    http://www.virtualsurveys.com/about/team/research/biographies/

  69. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    Oi - Jaqui Smiff - msg 4 U

    Article 12. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

    Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

    Article 21(2). Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

    Article 30. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

    Whore.

  70. Wayland Sothcott Bronze badge
    Unhappy

    I am nolonger young :-(

    I am 43 and tried to sign up.

    "We are sorry, but unfortunately we can only recruit people for this research who are aged between 16-25 and live in the UK. Thank you very much for your interest in joining the research.

    © 2008 Virtual Surveys Ltd"

    So I am going back and pretending to be 25. Surely there is a law against age discrimination?

    Am dwn wid da kids and da yoot. I will Obviously type in Text language, if I can remember how to do it. Any tips? Wear my baseball cap backawards or is that 1980's?

    I am going in....

  71. Wayland Sothcott Bronze badge
    Stop

    Access Denied to MyLifeMyID

    I tried my login even though the confermation email has not arrived.

    "Access denied

    You do not have the required permissions to access this page. If you believe this message to be in error, please contact a site administrator.

    © 2008 Virtual Surveys Ltd"

    Obviously I need to clear the Cookies again.

  72. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I tried

    but my username was rejected ... maybe I should try a different one than GeorgeBush

  73. Wayland Sothcott Bronze badge

    Read the forums

    Plenty of El reg members in the forums. You can tell by the writing styles. And also they admit it here http://www.mylifemyid.org/node/293

    No positive comments for National ID, except spin questions from the Ops. They are very creepy in a H.A.L sort of way. "Dave, I sense you uncomfortable with National ID" This was noted by one of the posters.

    Pete Comley http://www.virtualsurveys.com/about/team/research/biographies/, I sense you feel your National ID properganda website is backfiring badly. May I suggest you claim that the site has been infiltrated by Register readers who are also probably over 25 years?

  74. Name

    Where did Jaqui go

    I notice Jaqui's front page video and associated comments lasted about 2 days.

  75. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Well I want an I.D. card

    'cos the wankers took all my other ones off me

  76. call me scruffy
    Linux

    Oh Dear...

    You can agree with your own posts on there.

    The biggest problem with ID cards? They'll be implemented by the same sort of muppets as set up this website.

    Penguin, because you _really_ don't want to see an angry penguin.

  77. Ad Fundum
    Black Helicopters

    Favourite post

    My favourite post has to be the one about Pete Comley - Minister of Propaganda at Virtual Surveys aand chief mouthpiece for the government's "If you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to hide" line that he spins on every forum he moderates.

    Some wag has found Minister Comley's Facebook page and noted that it's marked as Private, which is very funny - worried about who can see your data are you, Pete?

    "But's he's smart enough to limit access to his Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=581083834"

  78. This post has been deleted by its author

  79. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    counter-conspiracy.

    A quick look across the posts indicates that a dozen or so users, all foaming at the mouth "The Nazis are comming the nazis are comming" account for 90% of the postings.

    So then, which anti-id group hijacked the governments own forum to "educated" the little darlings about the evils of ID?

    I say "educate" because it's more "look kids I'm running round like a headless chicken, why don't you try it" rather than providing any sound reasoning against ID cards.

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