Apple always say that they don't launch new hardware at WWDC, but every single time someone speculates that they will. You're just making stuff up here!
It's Monday lunchtime, and Apple's online store is still out of iPhones. Left-of-field speculation says this means the 3G iPhone's release is coming sooner than thought. If so, what might Apple have in mind for its Worldwide Developer Conference instead? In recent weeks, UK iPhone suppliers O2 and Carphone Warehouse have both …
So after failing in the mobile phone business, they're go to have a good shot at failing in the games business. Hello to the new- "You can't play the game that way, you must do it this way" -device. Still, it'll be amusing to see apple fan-androgenyous people versus all the sony and nintendo fan kiddiez.
With apple's horrible 3rd party games developer support for OS X for games, this seems unlikely. Maybe that will change. But EA has stated on a number of occations that they have talked to Apple to get better games support into OS X, but so far nothing.
id has always had thier OS X support, though.. Does anyone think that this has to do with the guy that took a day to get Quake 3 Arena on to pair of iPhones for some deathmatch action? And it played well too!
to get "Apple" and "games console" high on Google's rank by publishing this article. Did someone actually get paid to write it ?
Games development on the Mac is dwarfed by development for the PC and other consoles. Apple have a poor track record, support and expertise are from Apple for gaming are poor and the risks of developing for a platform as yet unknown are high.
Yup - someone made this up, probably got paid for doing so and I foolishly bothered to leave a comment ! Search Youtube for iBox for a laugh.
Would that really work? Think about it. Sony have a lot of developers on their side for the PSP, which is already an excellent device with a lot of functionality, *and* is compatible with a console which may well end up outselling its rivals. Plus, it has some fantastic games - the Burnout mobile series, God of War, and the Final Fantasy remakes spring immediately to mind.
Nintendo already have the most successful mobile gaming line ever. When all the students down at the local Uni reach for their gaming devices for a lunchtime multiplayer game, the devices are DS Lites and the game is Mario Kart.
A console is defined by its games. I have the feeling Apple would try to define theirs by its marketing strategy, as they do everything else these days. It doesn't matter if it's styled to be beautiful, and has built in sex-toy capabilities, if it has no games it simply won't work. And given the horde of developers currently building games for Apple products (heh), Apple will have to chuck some serious money around if it wants to steal developers away from established, working products.
It's not like the mobile market, where there are 100000 different phones to choose from, or the DAP market, where they simply bludgeoned everyone else out of the way. There are two really big players with really big platforms, so Apple will need square shoulders and two Yorkshiremen for props to get through that line.
Gamer, PSP/DS Lite owner
i'm not convinced there really is such a big handheld gaming market
and what market there is, it is more than amply catered for by the DS and the PSP.
added to which, the Mac has always had a bad name for gaming - even despite evidence to the contrary - and that's an image that Apple would find hard to shake. Sony and Nintendo have a proven history of gaming so buying a portable device from them is a safe bet. they can populate the platform with well known titles from their consoles. Apple haven't got a well known back catalog of Mac games that would transition to a handheld device.
(although, i'd sell my eyeteeh to be able to play the Marathon games on my iPhone on the way to work each morning)
one thing that does lend itself towards this theory though - how come there are STILL no games for the iPhone or the iPod Touch? could it be that developers have held off from releasing big screen versions of their iPod games because they know something is around the corner?
I can kind of see this, watching the original dev kit announcement it seemed as if the gaming capabilities of the iPhone were more than Apple or Sega were expecting. As is though, while the Wii like motion sensing is cool and all it lacks the multitude of buttons a serious gaming platform requires. A few cheap mods to the Touch would both open a whole new market and differentiate the Touch and iPhone into entertainment and business products, rather than the Touch being somewhat negatively cast as an iPhone sans phone.
How annoyed would you be if you purchased a full price 2.5G iPhone the day or week before the 3G version came out? Remember what happened when Apple dropped the price of the 8GB version and dropped the 4GB? There was uproar.
I'm fairly confident that Apple will release the 3G iPhone at the same time as they provide iPhone software 2.0, which will be at WWDC. I'd be very surprised to see a gaming device at WWDC. If Apple does have plans to release such a device, I would expect it to be in September/October in time for Christmas. If you think about it, by that time there will be a number of games already developed for the iPhone/Touch and developers will be up to speed on the capabilities. Any new device would run on the same development platform and thus be a no brainer for developers.
Do the others in the office laugh at you Tony? Do you feel like you're the only person who appreciates how good Apple products are? Every article written by you about Apple is an atypical 'I love Jobs' advert for apple instead of journalism.
By all means keep wasting your money on the over-priced/hyped/shiny/lacking in features toys. Everyone else will buy the not quite as pretty/does a lot more/ half the cost toys that allow them to get what they want done and leave them a lot more beer money.
See you down the pub, if you can afford it after paying your Apple Tax
I take it you've not visited the iTunes store recently? There is a separate games section...
On-topic, I'd be surprised if this were the case. I think Apple would first need to better promote the Mac as a gaming platform. Historically it's pretty weak; especially when it comes to controller drivers which are limited to HiD specification which can be all over the place.
If you watched me iPhone SDK keynote held in March you can see where the game rumor begins. It's possible Apple will release a version of the iPod Touch that is mainly meant for games. The energy and $100 million iFund behind the SDK could crush both Sony and Nintendo out of the market. the quality is just so much higher that people would switch on over in a minute. Google for: SDK iphone keynote -- and you'll see why rumors like this exist. We'll know June 9th for sure.
jai@ "one thing that does lend itself towards this theory though - how come there are STILL no games for the iPhone or the iPod Touch? could it be that developers have held off from releasing big screen versions of their iPod games because they know something is around the corner?"
Maybe because there was no way to develop Games or any other software for the iPhone or Touch, at least until the recent release of the the developers SDK only two months ago.
The iPhone or Touch is Apple's platform for phones, video and music, email and web browsing, and GAMES. Duh.
Oh wait, there is a name for that. It's called a (handheld) computer.
Will@ "An accessory that you plug your iPhone/touch in to that incorporates a controller, now there's an idea!"
It's called touch screen + accelerometer. Does anyone who comments on this forum know anything about the iPhone/Touch, other than assuming it's like all other phones?
The built-in accelerometer is the same technology used in the Nintendo Wii, but with a touch screen. Um, I think they use the Wii for games.
Apple demonstrates it games on the iPhone/Touch
Richard Large • Monday 12th May 2008 13:33 GMT
"So after failing in the mobile phone business, they're go to have a good shot at failing in the games business."
How is capturing 28% of the in less than a year a failure? That's only with the 2G model and no 3rd party development. The 3G/GPS model will only push them into the number one spot.
"When you think about it... when Appled launched the iPhone / iPod Touch, they were actually launching a new software platform as well. You have to remember that Apple Primarily thinks of itself as a Software Company and always has."
What are you trying to argue against? The first part of your post is irrelevant. The iPhone and iPod Touch are hardware devices. Yes, they have software, but they have hardware too! And neither were first announced at a WWDC.
The second part of your post is wrong. Apple make the vast majority of their money through selling hardware. I don't know where you got this notion from, but the only time they thought about becoming "primarily" a software company was under Gil Amelio in the mid-90s. From Macs to Apple TV to Airport to iPods to iPhone, Apple exist to make hardware AND software that work together. You can't separate the two sides.
Hm... where have I heard this before??? Oh yes, the Apple Pippin. It died an even bloodier death than the 3d0.
The Mac used to have tons of games: Dark Castle, Populous, SimCity and the other Sim-somethings come into mind, and even PC games like Wolfenstein 3D and Descent had their Mac ports which were superior than their PC counterparts. For one, Descent had full 640x480 resolution, while PC version looked like Doom. Somewhere along the line though, Apple lost that advantage, so now it's basically down to id Software and those who didn't buy into DirectX.
Given that mobile gaming has already its fair share penetration by the Nintendo DS and the PSP, I just can't find where to fit an iGameboy in. The "high-priced, overfeatured" slot's been taken by the PSP already. Apple doing a mobile games device makes as much sense as Sony releasing the PSPphone.
The only thoughts I can think of to type using this, my own Mac, the platform that I have used for half a decade, is that I hope Apple don't do this. I would definitely be open to iPod Touch price reductions, announcements of a whole bunch of game titles to appear in the App Store in the not too distant future and a marketing push concerning the iPod gaming potentials, but I really don't think they can or should try a new device. This is a company that we're led to believe revolves around the creative vision of two, maybe three people. While they concentrate on two, maybe three classes of device they can sustain a profitable niche. What they don't want to do is spread whatever talent they have too thinly.
I am a proper full on geek. I run FreeBSD on my laptop and have a Linux powered TV. I'm eagerly awaiting when I can get my hands on a 3G iPhone, and I'm not even overly shocked by the 18 month tie in (£35 pcm and unlimited data usage sounds ok to me).
The big pull for me is the apps. Writing apps is pretty straightforward - I'd love a Nagios app, allow me to quickly monitor and respond to work issues. Yes, I could use safari, browse to the right page, get the zoom settings right etc - but it would rock as an app.
Apple's support is good in this respect. No other personal media player/phone (I'd class them as the same thing these days) has this level of API support, without it either being hideous java based monstrosities, or the equally less appealing PocketPC, given my BSD bias.
Two downisdes to wanting the 3G iphone. First, I'll probably need a mac if I want to write apps - I hate cross-compiling. Secondly, and much more importantly, I'll have to get rid of my ipod touch. I've considered getting some hinges, and turning it into some sort of iphone-ds, but that might get silly.
Saint Steve, so the anti apple brigade can come roast me. (AC in case they take that the wrong way, I'm not that kinda guy).
Apple as been failling form more 3 decades at making computer
Apple as been falling to make Mp3 Player
Apple as been failing as no clue as what a phone should be
Apple will fail at his pathetic attemp to make a gaming device
Apple is a big failure at everything it touch. ho wait no there is one thing apple is good at: Smoke, miror and most of all hype
What is the biggest thing currently happening in the computer world at the moment (or one of them anyway) - subnotebooks...
When is everyone launching a subnotebook (dell, acer, msi etc) - JUNE. When is the intel atom available - JUNE.
Lets think about it - a fast expanding market tech market without apple?
they would be stupid not to release a subnotebook...
@ Mectron • Monday 12th May 2008 19:29 GMT
I don't know how you can state that Apple is a "failure" at anything these days. They have market capitalisation approaching that of Microsoft and long ago surpassed Dell. The company is hugely profitable and getting more so every day.
Whilst the PC industry is stagnant, Apple is seeing an explosive growth in their Mac business. Why? Because they are the best damn computers available today running the best damn commercial OS available today - don't take it from me, take it from reviews on numerous PC-centric magazines and sites which also state the best, fastest and most reliable computer on which to run Windows is, ironically, a Mac, but go on to state that the best OS available is actually Mac OS X.
@ Kevin • Monday 12th May 2008 19:25 GMT
Macs last much longer than Windows boxes before needing to be replaced. Apple makes computers which simply refuse to die, mostly because they don't make stuff out of rubbish parts and cheap plastic like Dell, etc. Same goes for all their other devices past and present - iPods, iPhones, printers, scanners, monitors. You just can't kill the stuff with a big stick. And we don't junk our old Macs when we upgrade - they are either given new roles in the home/business, or are sold (at a very good price - Macs really do hold their value) or gifted to friends, relatives or other needy individuals requiring liberation from Windows. I'm yet to hear of anyone actually giving their Mac back and returning to Windows.
Plus my 2nd generation iPod from early 2002 is still going strong with the original battery.
My mother and several friends have 1999 model fruit coloured jelly-bean iMacs which are still going strong, running Tiger (OS X 10.4) at a decent clip and doing productive things on programs like MS Office, editing video and music, doing DTP and graphics work, and of course surfing the web, emailing, etc.
You find me a low end PC from that era which can run XP and Office that doesn't make you want to take an axe to Bill Gates head. Oh that's right, you can't!
most of the rumor mill could be put to rest if people would just watch the iphone SDK keynote that happened in March. About half to three quarters the way through the event it clearly shows amazing games running on the iPhone/iPod touch. The accelerometer in the iPhone is just like the wii so the idea of having an old joystick or controller is absurd. watched the keynote, trust me, it's what you're looking for.
Kevin@ "yes a 3g model will push em into #1 especially when every mac fan has to buy a new one for 3g and throw their old one away. But hell there used to doing that with their mac computers already when they wanna upgrade."
You mean just like the BlackBerry Bold?
Of course it won't come out until after the 3G iPhone.
"The Bold is RIM's first BlackBerry to support (3G) networks"
At least Mac users aren't using subpar OS like XP or being forced to upgrade to one that is a total POS, like VistaME. Wait for Windows 7 vaporware my friend.
Owning both an iPhone and a touch, I'm fully versed in their features thanks. Having played a racing car sim demo the other day, I'd still like the option of a conventional controller and stand by my comments. This would also provide the opportunity to provide additional battery power and better audio (especially for the touch)
Even before Apple, when Steve Jobs worked at Atari there has always been a deep-seated game philosophy with Jobs. The Apple II in 1977 kicked off the entire PC gaming industry and was the primary platform because it was the first to have color, serious game paddles and lots of memory. Even the Macintosh had some great games in the early days, games like Dark Castle were 10 years ahead of what was on the PC at the time. When Steve Jobs left in 1985, John Sculley was ridiculed by business people since the Mac was too graphically sophisticated compared to the clunky PCs at the time, so the great games of 1986 87 threatened to make the Mac into a game machine not a high-powered business machine that Sculley wanted. So Sculley put on the brakes for game developers starting around 1988, and the rest is history. Now the top 1,200 or so games are all the Mac, so it's not a big problem, but the perception still goes back to 1988. The iphone could do wonders for this obsolete perception, and we'll know all the details June 9th. Stay tuned.
Ouch, that made me snort coffe out my nose, seeing 'Apple' and 'Games' in the same sentence.
What was that good game on the Apple again? Umm...
Can you name ONE good game that was Apple-only?
Having said that, if they made something the size/cost of the EEEPC I'd look. But Apple wouldn't want me - I don't look trendy, my name's not Nathan, and I don't like throwing money away just to be part of the 'in' crowd.
I don't understand... Apple make MP3 players which are, in almost all terms substandard (Non-replaceable, easily discharged batteries; substandard quality; Pitiful format support; filled with proprietary lock-in) and yet the ipod is declared a success as a numbers game.
Apple makes a phone which is in most ways substandard to the competition and yet the iphone is declared a success merely based on the numbers sold.
Windows sells several million copies, holding onto the top spot for years... And is declared a failure.
Proof that Marketing budjets are the simplest way to fool the great unwashed into considering your company as a religious entity who may do no wrong.
The iPod is the best MP3 player because it keeps things simple enough for grandma to use. Thats why when each new iPod killer came out loaded with features, few bought them. Techies fail to realise this time and again, the vast majority of the populous have no clue when it comes to technology.
Erm, that would be incorrect. Apple always used to think of themselves as a hardware company, that also produced the OS. The recent leaning towards being mainly a software company is exactly that, recent. If you disagree take a look inside a Mac Classic and take note of all the names embossed inside the case. You'll see that the great majority of them (Including Woz's) are hardware engineers.
"Nobody is stupid enough to buy an iPhone and a separate iConsole when they could just get an N-series Nokia with N-Gage included."
You really do underestimate the stupidity of the masses, don'tcha?? I see people with an iPhone, iPod and an extra iPod Shuffle for the gym! Seems redundant to me (without getting into the details about whether you like or dislike Apple products), but I guess I just don't earn enough to give Mr Jobs all my money....!
"Apple makes a phone which is in most ways substandard to the competition"
Yeah, the world is just brim-full of innovative, break-the-current-awful-UI mould, smartphones that offer true multi-touch, superlative industrial design in hardware with huge high-resolution screens, massive amounts of storage, *and* run a full Unix-based OS, besides having an environment for development comparable to the Cocoa frameworks for elegance, finish, power, maturity, and speed of development, and that have a browser equivalent to a desktop machine.
Better! There's nothing even remotely close. No wonder RIM are scared -- to say nothing of the makers churning out dross running the pathetic Win CE or Symbian with crappy lowest-common-denominator Java applets running on top.
It's like comparing a BMW with a 1970s Eastern-bloc rustbucket, and saying, "BMW makes a substandard car ..." You can *say* it, but it's moronic.
There might be a Linux-based device along to compete in at least some areas in a couple of years. Currently, there's nothing that even comes within spitting distance.
Will, I totally agree, the ipod is the best MP3 player for most people. It is simple to use and it does look good. The simplicity and style makes it a first choice for kids through to granny. I would also say that this formula works for most apple products- buy it, un-box it, switch it on and use and enjoy it.
Any visit to an Apple high street store will confirm this, the stores are full of people of all ages being assisted by staff who know and are passionate about their products,they look human, speak human and treat the customers as human beings. The stores are full of people purchasing, receiving after sale care and help or are doing group or one to one training.
The support offered remotely as part of the purchase or from .Mac is second to none.
No wonder Apple is booming, you do pay slightly more for the stuff but for that little extra you get so much more. I have never felt robbed or unvalued as a consumer. Un like when I bought my first PC, which I had to return to the popular store from which it came, the attitude was something like...
"....and you have fully paid for this machine and its' 2 months old.....Hmmm oh wait sorry gotta go theres' a bloke over there with a credit card I think he's going to spend, hope you get you computer fixed some how....'
"Techies fail to realise this time and again, the vast majority of the populous have no clue when it comes to technology."
I'm still not entirely convinvced that my brother understands that the CDs he's ripped are not "in" iTunes or Media Player. When I tried to explain that mp3 is a file format and not just "music on a computer" I thought he was going to have an aneurysm.
He still hasn't topped my sister saying "The computers broken and there is gibberish all over the screen." and me figuring out that she had tried to open a MAME ROM in MS Word, didn't see any words and so she just "moved" the file. I then had to explain that when we move a file to the Recycle Bin, it's called "deleting".
It's like pulling a part out of your car engine and hitting it with a hammer because you don't understand what it's for.
I'm still looking for a replacement for my Newton 2100. The iPod touch is almost there but still not exactly what I'd like. If they do come up with a small game platform/PDA, that can surf the web and email, I'll get one. Sub $200.00 would be sweet!
Mine's the one with Kool-Aide© stains.
You are at a loss of words since you don't know quality products very well. Apple "does the WHOLE object", but you seem mired in just the Advertising.
Apple does quality down to the BIT level, the ZEN level... nobody else even thinks of making a product with such detail in mind.
So sure, it's EASY to dismiss Apple by looking at Apple's successful advertising, but Apple does EVERYTHING at that level, that's why its computers and software are so popular... they really CARE at the deepest atomic level which is totally unlike any other Computer or Software firm.
Someday you'll get a Mac or iPod too, and learn the way everything will work going forward... but for now, stop the ignorance, everyone that has an Apple product is laughing at you...
even as someone webster would refer to as a 'kool-aid drinker', i'd be the first to admit that seeing the words 'apple' and 'games' in the same sentence is usually a cause for cringeing embarrassment. and i reckon this rumour i about as accurate as most of the drivel which appears on macrumors [sic].
however, as someone previously said, apple do already have a potential gaming platform in the shape of the ipod touch and/or iphone. now, before you spit coffee all over your keyboard, why not check out this article, which gives a pretty convincing argument as to why the concept of 'apple gaming' might not be as ridiculous as we all think:
Actually, the best thing about the ipod wasn't the device but its symbiosis with itunes. itunes was what made the ipod with its frankly brilliant smart playlist and syncing system (far superior to the granular, but time wasting drag n drop).
This meant that I didn't have to do anything other than make sure my files were correctly tagged up and any new stuff I added to itunes and was caught by the smart playlists and automatically dumped to my ipod the next tiem I charged it up.
*that* was the key selling point... however, itunes has been on the decline for the past couple of years and has become a bloated 70's elvis awaiting for that one more feature/burger to give it a cardiac arrest.
Apple really need to sort out itunes and return it to the sleak app it used to be, or else its ipod sales are gonna mystically dry up should someone else come up with their own syncing solution that is as great as itunes used to be.
Also, for those who think that apple can dominate the portable console market, may they have better luck than the others who tried (neogeo, atari, wonderswan, gizmodo, nokia...) but in all seriousness, it'll be a nigh on impossible task to overhaul the 65million DSes that are already in peoples hands (mine included.. I also have a PSP but that has its own problems).
Yeah, they really care about what they sell to you. Only the highest quality and a generous amount of product when you fork out that premium.
I would advise that you compare the contents of the box you got with a 2nd to 3rd gen ipod (which is when I bought my first one, the moment they added windows support, tho I had to use ephpod because the bundled musicmatch was great example on how not to make a media application) with the contents of what you get today and see how much they care about you and your experience.
Lets see shall we?
ipod circa 2002/2003
firewire and/or usb cable
carry case (originally this was a belt clip and semi sturdy thing, 2005 this had become a low quality cloth "skin").
ipod circa 2008
universal dock adapter (actual dock sold separately for £30)
yeah, they're going the extra mile to make you special *rolls eyes*
but your comment misses the point. You paid an extra hundred dollars in 2000-2003 for a lot of stuff people just didn't use. Now you get or four times the storage, large color screen, $100 less, and the option for you to pick and choose which accessories you want. Apple has become more environmental, so that some of it, the rest is just to give you more choice.
Your complaints about iTunes, is all because you're still using Windows. iTunes on the Mac is much more nimble since it doesn't have to deal with the absurdities of a Microsoft product running underneath. So just get a Mac, and quit complaining. Thanks.
I actually have a mac, I use it for video encoding primarily during the production of my podcasts.
itunes has slid a hell of a long way since I first started using it on either OS (I'll still stream my music across the network using itunes).
There are so many things that irritate me about it now - major niggle at the moment is if I don't listen to a podcast for 2 weeks, it'll stop grabbing files and then wait for you to either manually tell it to download or you listen to one of the files, there's no option to turn this "functionality" off. The whole point of podcasts is that I listen/watch them on my time. I've since moved to using juice again.
The windows itunes is absolutely horrible (about 4 different background services running because of it) but I'm sure those same services are running in the background on the mac version too and cause slowdowns and spinny beachballs when you try to use it with any proficiency.
I got plenty of use out of the dock, carry case and powerbrick (which essentially was the sum total of the extras), at the very least you'd think that apple would bundle a carry case with the damn thing (it being portable and liable to scratching) for the price you pay for it.
Also, don't forget that a lot of the price drop would be down to the economics of the IT industry as well as cheapign out and charging for everything they used to bundle in with the device.
Also, the price hasn't really fluctuated that much. My 30gb 3rd gen cost me £320, my 60gb 5/6th gen (first of the video ipods) cost me £270-ish.. with about 3 years between them. 3 years and a £50 drop but how much are you "nickel and dimed" for the various other bits that £50 more used to get?
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