back to article Welsh student exposed to nude webcam operators

A Welsh student has described herself as "amazed and disgusted" at a couple of Jobcentre Plus ads punting for nude webcam operators at £10 an hour plus 50 per cent commission, the BBC reports. Anna Ellis-Jones, who's studying for a Masters degree in heritage management, spied the "sad, pitiful and depressing" opportunties in …

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  1. Rob
    Paris Hilton

    What's wrong with that?

    It's a valid job and it needs to be advertised. Let's face it, an ad like that is actually fairly discrete - it could be marketed a lot worse. For example on the notice boards in colleges.

    The job centre is right though, that they have to carry it - they're not allowed to turn it away. It's up to the job seeker to decide whether they want it or not.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Meh

    "It is just bonkers...": Is it just me or does this make no sense whatsoever?

    "sad, pitiful and depressing": Is this referring to the job in question or was McDonald's advertising too?

  3. Robin

    Jobbies

    I once looked in that Bangor office for jobs and saw nothing of the sort. Imagine how different my career would have been, had I seen that opportunity!

    Thanks for nothing, DSS (as was).

  4. The Other Steve
    Paris Hilton

    Minimum wage ???

    The only shocking thing about those particular job ads is the base rate of pay, although a 50% commission could work out nicely if you were popular, I have no idea how much the cam operators charge to view semi naked welsh rarebit, but I can't see it being cheap.

  5. Anonymously Deflowered

    Hmmm

    I wonder how they cope with age/sex discrimination?

    If a sixty year old man wanted to apply, what then?

    I'm sure there are no shortage of male computer geeks who would be happy point a webcam at themselves while they play Team Fortress in their skids for a tenner an hour.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    freudian slip?

    Ellis-Jones thundered: "It is just bonkers"

    Bonkers being the operative word.

    The raincoat, if you please

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Did she get turned down for the job?

    Once Ms Ellis-Jones had finished thundering, "It is just bonkers in this day and age when we are encouraging safety for children on the internet, to come across job adverts like this," did anyone ask her exactly how this job advert was supposed to discourage safety of children on the internet?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "amazed and disgusted"

    Ah, she's just pissed off because she's an ugly bird no-one'll pay to watch...

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Prude

    Oh grow up and stop hiding your prudity behind 'safety of children on the internet'.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    I like the "Welsh" in the headline

    Seriously, a student being uptight about earning money by doing something adult-themed on the Internet?

    C'mon, what else *is* there on the Internet? And where do you expect to find all your cheap labour if it's not at the Jobcentre?

    Anyway - where do I sign up?

  11. Lloyd
    Coat

    Oh dear

    I haven't read Viz for a while but it sounds like Millie Tant stills exists.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    naked people on the internet? bah humbug!

    "It is just bonkers in this day and age when we are encouraging safety for children on the internet, to come across job adverts like this"

    oh noes! naked people on the internetz! someone call the sun!

    seeing as this job aparently requires you to be 18, and (presumably) you would have to pay with a credit card to oggle welsh wenches, how exactly will this do anything to the safety of children?

  13. Mark Ireland-Spicer
    Coat

    @JonB

    Umm...Nail...head!!

  14. Mattew Gaunt

    What's the job reference?

    I think I might apply for this.

    £10 an hour to waggle my cock at people of an evening sounds an easier way to bring in extra cash than flogging my old tat on eBay.

  15. John Routledge

    Spotting a pattern here...

    I'd quite like to see what the female readers of the Reg have to say about this.

    What?

    Oh.

  16. Hollerith

    blame her

    I was waiting for someone to say 'she must be doing this because she's ugly'. I wonder why this sort of comment is made? If she were a stunner, would she have no objection? If she was gorgeous, she would be happy that the jobs women are offered include semi-soft porn? That all women, if they only had the looks, would leap at the chance to do a demeaning job?

    Men, when they are looking for jobs, don't expect to see stuff that is just a few steps away from rent boy, and yet that sort of role is acceptable to be in the range of opportunities open to women.

  17. stu
    Thumb Up

    Welsh bird naked

    The basic problem here seems to me... who in their right mind wants to see a welsh girl naked ?

    Now a Welsh sheep.. maybe with a live 'shaving cam'...

    now your talking !

  18. milan
    Paris Hilton

    Won't somebody think of the children..

    Or, I want a chance to get something out of the job centre for nothing, so I'm kicking up a huge fuss about absolutely nothing.

    Paris because...well it doesn't need explaining

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Mainstream

    webcam 'operators' in Jobcentres. How boringly ordinary it has become, so quickly.

    Bring back the Jennicam...

  20. Stuart Butterworth

    but...

    I know several people who do this for free...

  21. GrahamT
    Joke

    "Adults aged 18+..."

    Well, I'm aged 18+, i.e. 18+40, so where do I apply - I can't see it on Reg Jobs.

    I'm not sure what the market is for a balding overweight middle-aged men, so I can't bank on the 50% commission, but 10 quid an hour for doing nowt but lie around starkers sounds better than commuting into London every day.

  22. Andy G
    Coat

    @ JonB

    lol kinda hard not to speculate that really is it. Maybe we should petition for a pic of Ms Ellis-Jones so we can make up our own minds on this one.

    Mine's the peep hole thong covered in baby oil

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    if there was a market

    for slightly over weight, glasses wearing male Civil Servants to do nude web cams id do it - the pay is better then what i get working for the government.

  24. Matt Bradley
    Paris Hilton

    Exploiting desparation

    From the article, it sounds like these adverts are appearing in the some of the most poverty stricken areas of the country. Coupled with the fact that they are offering such a derisory wage for the job, and I'd have to say this sounds highly exploitative.

  25. Slaine
    Linux

    age restrictions

    I'm well over 18, but I still don't think I could call myself an "adult"

  26. Steven Raith

    'Think of the children'

    Well in that case, instead of moaning about a job in the Jobcentre, which is advertised as strictly 18+ etc, how about you have a look in your local newsagent - where the sweet, innocent kids go to buy lollipops and sherbet - and have a look at the front page of the Daily Sport and whatnot.

    Which are always on view to everyone.

    What a niave, short sighted twat she must be.

    Steven R

  27. Chewy

    Missing the point

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you repeatedly turn down jobs doesn't it affect your benefits? Obviously the woman in question wouldn't have to worry about it as she is in full time education. The mental image I get of the company is of Vicky Pollard though.

  28. Graham Bartlett

    @Hollerith

    Jobs for men include Chippendale-style acts, and male escorts. It's certainly not unknown for agencies to post job ads looking for people to do this.

  29. Steve
    Thumb Up

    you won't get hired

    If you're old, fat and/or ugly they won't hire you. It's not discrimination to have minimum physical requirements for a job where physical appearance is important.

    I'm not sure how this can be exploitation though, they are paying well over the minimum wage and it sounds like an easy job. McDonalds, that's exploitation.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's nothing

    Few years back there was an outcry when someone was told she'd lose her benefits if she didn't take a job as an 'artist's model'

  31. Magnus

    @Hollerith & Var

    The job posting does not seem to be discriminating by gender. It seems men would be just as open to taking up this wonderful opportunity as women.

    Now, I wouldn't work in that kind of job, but I as long as the job/activity is not outlawed then I do think they should be allowed to advertise in Job centres. The major issue there might have been (that to qualify for JobSeeker allowance you have to take nearly any job offered to you) does not apply here since it specifically states that not taking up this job will not affect any benefits.

  32. Dazed and Confused

    @Hollerith

    "Men, when they are looking for jobs, don't expect to see stuff that is just a few steps away from rent boy, and yet that sort of role is acceptable to be in the range of opportunities open to women."

    OK, so the original comment was OOO but there are probably webcam operative opening for men too. I'm sure given gay rights that Job Centres would carry those ads too.

    I presume the Job Centre feels it has to carry the ads as a result of the Anne Summers case. The last time I went into one of their stores it was packed with women and I was the only bloke in the shop.

    So long as no one is saying "Take this job or we cut your job seekers allowance" I don't see a problem. Given the amount of this sort of stuff on the web there must be an awful lot of people in the world who are prepared to remove their clothing to earn some money.

  33. Graham Wood

    Won't somebody think of the.... Oh.

    @The Other Steve

    It's more than a lot of people earn - and that's just the basic pay. It's also (if you want) at home in relatively short shifts... No, I wouldn't be interested, but I don't think the salary counts as "shocking".

    @Hollerith

    I don't "expect" it, certainly. However, seeing an advert asking for men willing to parade naked in front of a camera wouldn't offend me in the slightest.

    Instead, I'm likely to be amused. There's so much porn on the net already, do we really need more created?

    @Chewy

    Certainly you can't be too picky - however the "Please note that there is no obligation to consider making an application for this vacancy." comment implies that the jobcentre were specifically excluding this one from that requirement. Sounds like a fair attitude to me.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    not bad rates...

    £10/hour and 50% commission?

    That's not a bad rate for this sort of thing. Only one commercial site that I know of offers 50% commission (if you're lucky!), most are in the range 25-40%, and don't offer a guaranteed wage on top of it.

    How the company will survive at these pay rates, I don't know - the market for this sort of thing seems to have taken a down-turn of late - many people I know who were making good money at this only a couple of years ago are struggling now.

  35. Rob Holmes
    Boffin

    People missing the point...

    I'd be interested to know what the people complaining about the wages for this job get paid. £10 per hour plus commission? Thats hardly to be sneezed at. I think the confusion has come because a quote in the article says "Guaranteed minimum wages", not, as many people appear to have read it "Garunteed minimum wage".

    £40 plus commission for flashing your bits at the world and their mates for 4 hours sounds like a good deal to me. No heavy lifting, warm, dry workplace, theres much worse jobs paying far less money.

    Icon because some people need glasses... ;-)

  36. Spleen

    @Matt Bradley

    As opposed to spending the rest of your life moving chicken testicles from a grill to a box. Or cold-calling people in their homes. Or selling crack (in which case your life will be a lot shorter). Or actually prostituting yourself.

    As far as opportunities for the unskilled go, this is hardly bottom of the list. Frankly I can't see "Dole Queue Hotties" being a particularly arousing prospect anyway.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Hollerith

    >I was waiting for someone to say 'she must be doing this because she's ugly'.

    Await no longer for the JonB hath commented!

    >I wonder why this sort of comment is made?

    As an amusingly ironic take on stereotypical sexist remarks perhaps.

    I blame the state of the education system that this sort of ironic cynicism

    is on its knees (probably giving head for £10/hr)

    >If she were a stunner, would she have no objection?

    Well, she might have an income....

    >That all women, if they only had the looks, would leap at the chance to do a demeaning job?

    A lot go in for hairdressing.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Dazed and Confused

    "Instead, I'm likely to be amused. There's so much porn on the net already, do we really need more created?"

    er, yes we do actually, I think I've seen everything already out there.

    Come on Hollerith, you know you want to. (Thats my tongue placed well and firmly in my cheek by the way, before you ask)

    Mines the one with "Lawsuit waiting to happen" on the back.

  39. Les Matthew
    Thumb Up

    @Rob Holmes

    Where do I sign up?

    Do you think I will earn much commission for flashing my hairy white arse and man boobs?

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Rob Holmes

    >No heavy lifting

    Maybe that's why she didn't get the job?

  41. Cap'n wotsit

    @Spleen

    re "Dole Queue Hotties", did you perchance mean something like http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/graphics/2004/10/19/btburke199.jpg

    ?

    mines the dirty flasher mac with the USB 3G wireless dongle sewn in the collar for inpromptu web surfing outside the local perv alley

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    <no title>

    If there are legimiate jobs she doesn't like, no one is forcing her to apply for them. She should not try to deny the opportunity for others to do so though.

  43. Alan

    @Chewy

    Happy to correct you...

    If you read to the bottom of the advert you'll see that you are not forced to apply for this job, so it will not effect your benefits if you refuse to apply.

    "The ads continued: "Guaranteed minimum wages per four hour shift. Duties require the successful applicant to be nude/semi-nude. Vacancy not suitable for under-18s. Please note that there is no obligation to consider making an application for this vacancy.""

  44. Mike Scott

    There *is* something wrong with this

    Paying commission for this job is probably illegal. It's indirect sex discrimination, as men are unlikely to earn as much commission as equally skilled and qualified women.

  45. George Forth
    IT Angle

    Luddite Puritan In Inability To Accept The Modern World Shocker

    Stupid girl - she's probably only narked because she can't find a job herself that pays that well!

  46. Greg

    What a stupid person

    >>"Ellis-Jones thundered: "It is just bonkers in this day and age when we are encouraging safety for children on the internet, to come across job adverts like this."<<

    Yeah, cos kids are really going to be in danger of JOB ADVERTS! Especially ones that require the employee to be over 18. It's a scandal! Remove this filth!

  47. Paul Stimpson
    Flame

    Grow up!

    Dear Ms. Ellis-Jones,

    Sex Worker is a job title, not a character flaw. I find it offensive that your attitude seems to denigrate all the honest people working in adult industries worldwide. Should everyone, female and male, not have the right to decide how they wish to express their sexuality? Why are you seeking to take their rights away from them? Please be an adult. If you don't like the idea of sex work then don't apply for the job but don't try to take the opportunity away from others just because it's not right for you.

    The advert clearly states that the position is not open to under 18s. Your statement about this being a child protection issue is therefore just plain wrong. Can I take from it that you think all sexually explicit material should be banned to protect children? People have sex and many of them enjoy it. A healthy and honest attitude towards sex important for individuals' development, mental well-being and to protect them from exploitation.How many children have been abused for years because they thought sex was dirty and that they couldn't tell? May I suggest you develop a more grown-up attitude towards sex?

  48. Tom Watson
    Paris Hilton

    @AndyG

    Sadly unable to find a picture of Anna in any of the obvious places (I thought students had to be on Facebook).

    Natasha Ellis-Jones however appears to be be very much more forthcoming...

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Mike Scott

    As the qualifications probably include having an attractive pair of lady breasts and skills would include being able to display said lady lumps in a provocative manner, I doubt very much that many men could claim equal skills qualifications.

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    At the end of the day..

    It's a free world and does anyone think people give a sh*t?

    Take the job or leave it.

  51. Ross

    Re: Discrimination etc

    No, it's not illegal to pay using commission. Almost *any* job except possibly telephone sales that pays commission benefits the attractive folk (both men and women, but mainly women). I often see jobs in the paper for women to walk around a bar selling shots for commission, usually whilst wearing less than I wear in the shower.

    Men have just as good an opportunity to make good commission if not more than women, so you can forget that argument. I'm sure there are plenty of gay men willing to part with their cc details as well as women to see a buff bit of meat on a webcam.

    And yes, this student is retarded. It's a legal job, it pays well for how easy and safe it is, and you can work part time I presume. If you think they're being exploited by the employer then you should compare accountants hourly pay with their charge out rates. You'll see approximately 8-10x difference.

    Now, does anyone have a link to the job spec?...

  52. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    @Matthew Gaunt - flogging my old tat

    "flogging my old tat" - that's a euphemism I've not heard before.

    Still, if people will pay to watch you do it, then good luck to you.

  53. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Next job?

    I dont think this young lady was thinking out of the box!

    i am sure if you did this for a few weeks so that it was on your CV, she would surely get a job in a IT services company!

    when i used i used to be on recruitment panel at a large US IT Services company operating in the UK , we used to do work very hard to find innovative ways we could justify encoraging women into the workforce!

    Although admittedly just being attractive wasnt often enough (personality helps) - i am sure any prospective webcab girl with a 2.1 or above would certianly have got an interview or young enough she could have got on the "modern apprentice" scheme...

  54. Silentmaster101
    Flame

    Saftey of the children on the internet?

    If i remember correctly that was the job of the parents, and not our problem. If you are required to be 18, then you are no longer a child and it doesnt apply......

  55. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: Next job?

    Sigh. I am ever so glad it is Friday.

  56. Luke Wells

    hahaha

    Have you ever seen a "hot" woman complain about porn?

    That might tell you something about our friendly student featured in this article.

  57. Luther Blissett

    @Paul Simpson

    > How many children have been abused for years because they thought sex was dirty and that they couldn't tell?

    I consider myself a man of the world, but I have to admit this is one explanation of pedophilia I haven't seen. Could it also explain why the workers of the world have never united to overthrow their exploitative pimp capitalists.

  58. Matthew
    Paris Hilton

    whats the problem?

    If you don't like it don't apply... its not like there advertising to 13 year-olds... its a free market.. 10 an hour doesn't seam like much though.. i would be more disgusted at the pay..

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @stu

    "The basic problem here seems to me... who in their right mind wants to see a welsh girl naked ?" well, I know one or two welsh girls whom, I bet, you would be very happy to see naked.

  60. Maty
    Coat

    the injustice of it ...

    I am middle-aged, bald and overweight. And I wear glasses and have a beard. If I were to present myself naked to the general public via webcam, I suspect I'd be on the receiving side of strong words from the beak for indecent exposure. Yet I am shocked, shocked, I tell you, to hear that I might be able to apply for a job interview to so expose myself. However, if there is a market for nubile welsh lasses who wish to view, I might make the sacrifice.

    Reminds me of the old joke - If a man talks dirty to a woman, its harassment. If a woman talks dirty to a man, its £3.50 a minute.'

    Yup, the tatty raincoat, please ...

  61. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    getting my coat...

    *sings* "The internet is for porn..."

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645

  62. Peter H. Coffin

    Turned down? I doubt it...

    If the Internet has taught me anything it is that nobody is too old, too fat, too ugly, too male, or too *anything* that they cannot attract some kind of audience doing something half- or all-naked for money.

  63. j
    Paris Hilton

    @Hollerith

    OK, so the original comment was a bit blokey, (it's going to happen, this *IS* the internet - *AND* a tech site to boot) but regarding the rest - a few years ago whilst at Uni and looking to subsidise my income I was referred for an interview with a sex chatline company (I'm a man).

    I suppose if you consider removing your clothes on camera demeaning (which it no doubt is to some people, but also probably not to others) then you'd consider that to be also.

    I didn't take the job - I didn't think I'd be very good at it, but I did go to the interview. It looked just like a normal call centre - a load of bored looking people talking into headsets whilst reading newspapers or fiddling with stationary.

  64. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    @Welsh bird naked

    "who in their right mind wants to see a welsh girl naked ?"

    Well I do - and in case my g/f is reading this - you are the Welsh girl I am talking about. I am planning on see her naked quite a lot this weekend!

    <strong Rhondda valleys accent>

    I'll tell you butt, theres nothing wrong with a nice Welsh piece!

    </strong Rhondda valleys accent>

  65. Andrew Thomas

    "Sex work" = exploitation and degradation

    Paul Stimpson said: "Sex Worker is a job title, not a character flaw. I find it offensive that your attitude seems to denigrate all the honest people working in adult industries worldwide. People have sex and many of them enjoy it. A healthy and honest attitude towards sex important for individuals' development."

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with sex, but there's plenty wrong with "sex work", be it prostitution, exploitation of women, or appearing on a web cam for some dirty old man to w@nk off.

  66. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    re: photo

    Brother, cousin?

    http://www.dewiellisjones.com/gallery.html

  67. Mark

    re: Exploiting desparation

    whose desperation are they exploiting, though? Since the money is taken from men, surely it is exploiting the natural drives of men for the profit of the women and company involved.

  68. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    hilarious

    "Men, when they are looking for jobs, don't expect to see stuff that is just a few steps away from rent boy, and yet that sort of role is acceptable to be in the range of opportunities open to women."

    Sexist pig.

    the job was offered to men and women: obviously you objectify women and see them as only fit for this kind of work...?

    As for all the shitty attitudes towards sexworkers: HA! coming from an audience with a mostly IT background, that's rich.

    Just because YOU don't like the idea of having sex for money doesn't mean it's low-class, wrong or anything else you want to call it.

    I would like to see the response of your average prostitute when offered a job in a server room: "what, work in a fridge with no friends and nothing to do but talk to star trek fans all day? That's disgusting, that is. We're trying to keep kids safe on the internet and there's an ad for this clearly humiliating, horrible, achievement-free job?"

    Like I say, hilarious.

  69. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Luke Wells

    Yes, I have.

  70. j
    Thumb Down

    @Luther Blissett

    "I consider myself a man of the world, but I have to admit this is one explanation of pedophilia I haven't seen."

    As was clearly stated, it's not an explaination for paedophilia, it's an explaination for an abusee to suffer in silence.

  71. Andrew Thomas

    A sad way to live

    If you think there's nothing wrong with "sex work", just answer this:

    Would you want your daughter to do it?

  72. j

    @Andrew Thomas & Mark

    "whose desperation are they exploiting, though? Since the money is taken from men, surely it is exploiting the natural drives of men for the profit of the women and company involved"

    I think this is a chicken and egg argument.

    "There's absolutely nothing wrong with sex, but there's plenty wrong with "sex work", be it prostitution, exploitation of women, or appearing on a web cam for some dirty old man to w@nk off"

    I think you're painting with rather too broad a brush here. There is a seedy element to some sex work - one which I can't help feeling would be significantly reduced if not eliminated by proper regulation - I'd be interested to hear your views on this. But whatever my or your feelings on sex work, many people feel perfectly comfortable performing it, and that being the case who are you or I to stop them?

  73. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    @Luke Wells

    "Have you ever seen a "hot" woman complain about porn?"

    No, but then again I can't lipread. I've heard a hell of a lot of them complain about it too, and I don't just mean religious ones either.

    Actually, I know a lot more hot women who complain about porn than I've seen hot women acting in porn. Anyone who thinks most porn stars are good-looking needs to get out more. You might be a bit disappointed by chest size, but when you're touching (not just looking) size isn't everything....

  74. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    @j

    -->(Luther Bisset)"I consider myself a man of the world, but I have to admit this is one explanation of pedophilia I haven't seen."

    -->(j)"As was clearly stated, it's not an explaination for paedophilia, it's an explaination for an abusee to suffer in silence."

    Its _an_ explanation, but from experience sadly not the only one, which is part of what takes so long to get over it. I take the original statement by Paul in the spirit it was meant though.

  75. John Savard Silver badge

    Solution to the Problem

    Since the cause of this problem is a court decision, the solution is to amend the laws. Make it quite explicit that government agencies like this Jobcentre may refuse to carry any sort of advertisement that could bring the slightest blush to a maden's cheek, or cause embarrasment to any Member of Parliament who might lose votes from this or that pressure group.

    And it is legitimate, as well, to argue that this sort of thing is out of step with valid social policy goals of enhancing respect for women.

  76. Andrew Thomas

    It's a sad life for these women

    J said: "But whatever my or your feelings on sex work, many people feel perfectly comfortable performing it, and that being the case who are you or I to stop them?"

    I think very few women in the sex trade would continue selling sex if they had any other option, i.e., it's not a "lifestyle choice" as you suggest. They're just down-and-dirty low-paid soul-destroying jobs. Many have drugs habits. Many are smuggled in from Eastern Europe. These women aren't doing these jobs for fun. They need help to find something more productive to do with their lives.

  77. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Andrew Thomas

    "If you think there's nothing wrong with "sex work", just answer this:

    Would you want your daughter to do it?"

    I wouldn't let my daughter become a Tory MP, that doesn't mean that I am not the person in the wrong, though.

    Also, it's interesting to change moral questions like this round a bit so: "If you think there's nothing wrong with "sex work" would you let you son do it?"

    I can think of a fair few "blokes" who would probably be a bit proud if their son was in a hetro-porno, but would go apoplectic if their daughter was.

  78. Daniel B.

    Desperation jobs

    Definitely the ultimate desperation job. I read a month ago about a single mom that works for one of those "hotlines". She is given a mobile diadem in which she receives the "calls", so she can "work" from home; the income is higher for this than any burger-flipping job she might take.

    Its kind of like someone I knew who sold booze 24-hours in a city where alcohol sales are banned after 2am. He said: "They want to buy booze. I want to pay my bills, and finish college. So they get expensive booze, and I get to pay my bills." True, it ain't my business if "dirty old men" want to get off with phone sex or watching nude chicks on their webcams. At least someone gets better income than the wage-slave-zombies at McDonalds, Wal-Mart and their ilk.

  79. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    El Reg Sex line

    Judging by the interest shown on the Reg - this sex line is now a non-starter because it will be staffed almost exclusively by Reg readers. Which probably means 100% male, middle aged and slightly wobbly.

    Now where's the damn number ?

    (STOP sign - because we really should)

  80. Graham Marsden
    Thumb Down

    @ "Sex work" = exploitation and degradation

    Exploitation? You mean unlike being exploited in some miserable minimum wage job stacking boxes or slinging burgers or chopping up chickens or soldering components onto circuit boards or doing data entry...?

    As for "degradation", I know women who work in many areas in the sex industry who will tell you that most of those complaining about the "degradation" of women are actually feminists who think that it is "letting the side down" and think that the women who do so shouldn't have the right to choose for themselves how they earn money!

  81. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dysfunctional women

    Maybe when she has a sex life, tried a threesome, gone through the experimental sex stage and grown up, she'll have a more rounded view of the world.

    Until then she's just some prude being offended by the most minor thing, and trying to impose her views on other by invoking the 'won't somebody think of the children' argument.

    @Andrew

    "They're just down-and-dirty low-paid soul-destroying jobs.Many have drugs habits. Many are smuggled in from Eastern Europe. These women aren't doing these jobs for fun."

    They're doing them for money and sex. I know I'm saying a shocking thing, that women actually like sex and enjoy money too, but then I'm married to a filipino ex bar girl who misses the frequent casual sex and lots of money. So I have a clue and you do not.

  82. Mike
    Gates Halo

    are you serious?

    i can't believe some of the comments

    a fool wants to pay you money to stand there naked, you saying you wouldn't?

    yes, they only want to do an easy job for decent pay because they have no choice - i mean let's face bill gates has said numerous times that he hates sitting around watching the money pour in and is desperately trying to get a job as a builder doing hard work 12 hours a day to barely pay the bills!

    i bet if someone offered you £500 to quickly pop in and replace their CD ROM drive with a DVDRW (plenty of money for an easy job) then i expect every one of you that is talking about how bad such jobs are would refuse the job... you'd much rather do a 16+ hour shift of hard labour on minimum wage for less money

    and i thought el reg had intelligent readers who could recognise that a well paid easy job is better than a minimum wage difficult job!

  83. Bruce Sinton
    Coat

    Its illegal , it's immoral or it makes you fat

    Pay for sex or being paid for sex was illegal here a short time ago.

    Then our modern , progressive government said that now it is.

    Bit like homosexuality- Governments can change law so that what was revolting, depraved and nasty is now wonderful etc. and if you don't approve of it you are a homophobic.

    It.s all very confusing.

    Time for my coat .

  84. b166er

    Seems to me

    that porn etc is womens way of exploiting mens weakness for the fairer sex, and mens way of exploiting women for titillation.

    Picture if you will; woman voluntarily exposes genitalia in exchange for money - man voluntarily pays money to look at woman exposing genitalia.

    Do you think for one moment, Hollerith, that successful female pornstars feel exploited?

    Rather, they are quite proud of being able to so successfully exploit men whilst simultaneously achieving the sexual gratification they crave.

    Sure, some women will be exploited and won't be successful, but that's true in any walk of life.

    Evens?

  85. Franklin

    Degrading and sexist...

    ...is how I see the people who think that there's something inherently degrading about doing this sort of work.

    "Oh, women shouldn't do sex work, it's degrading" essentially translates into English as "Women are not qualified to judge for themselves what they want to do, nor to make their own decisions. Bless their pretty little heads, they're just too fragile and too stupid to see how degrading this is. So we need to protect the little honeys from this sort of work, because, y'know, women just aren't qualified to think for temselves about this kind of thing."

    And that's demeaning and sexist.

    You can't have it both ways. Women can't simultaneously empowered and be victims. If women are the equal of men, that means they can make decisions for themselves. Including the decision to take their clothes off, or not, as they see fit.

    Even of other folks disagree with those decisions.

    Would I want someone close to me to do it? Sure. My girlfriend has done exactly this kind of work, in fact.

    While she was in college.

    Working toward her Ph.D.

    In biophysics.

    And yes, that is totally hot. I dig brainy women. That aside, though, the sad silly plonkers who shower judgment and condemnation on the women who do this kind of work are revealing more about themselves and their own perceptions of the inferiority of women than perhaps they realize.

  86. j

    @Andrew Thomas

    "I think very few women in the sex trade would continue selling sex if they had any other option, i.e., it's not a "lifestyle choice" as you suggest."

    I would refer you to my first point:

    "There is a seedy element to some sex work - one which I can't help feeling would be significantly reduced if not eliminated by proper regulation - I'd be interested to hear your views on this.

  87. yeah, right.

    pitiful

    The only pitiful thing is the narrow-minded attitude displayed by the student and by a few of the other commenters. Being nude on webcam is surely preferable to slinging hot grease at someplace like McDonalds, or to emptying septic tanks for minimum wage?

  88. Andrew Thomas

    Legalisation?

    J said: "There is a seedy element to some sex work - one which I can't help feeling would be significantly reduced if not eliminated by proper regulation."

    Yeah, maybe. I can't help thinking a lot of men are attracted to the seediness, and they probably wouldn't bother going to a smart, council-controlled brothel. It's like cannabis or CB radio - once you legalise it, its popularity drops right off, which is maybe a good thing.

    It's a strange thing, because we do have de facto brothels in every city right now, so called "health clubs" or "saunas". They advertise quite openly in papers. The police generally turn a blind eye. I suppose as long as they're not employing girls against their will (sex slaves) then it's not so bad. It's important to clamp down on the sex slave thing - that's awful.

  89. doc flaxen

    hot woman

    "Have you ever seen a "hot" woman complain about porn?"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Lovelace

    @ yeah, right. etc.

    What's wrong with working in McDonalds, you'll have to learn to deal with people sometime.

    @ ac "I'm married to a filipino ex bar girl who misses the frequent casual sex and lots of money." And you have a clue ??

  90. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Compulsion

    I think my concern is if there was any compulsion for her to do it, i.e. "take this job or we take your benefits". It's not as if some of the people who work at Job Centres are unknown for a lack of tact or common sense...

  91. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Exploiting desperation

    That's what a capitalist society is all about. People degrade themselves for food and comfort, be it pretending not to see the glaring oversights in your manager's plans or showing your stretch marks for cash.

  92. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Not a job of desperation

    We are a couple who run a webcam on a hosted site. For us, it's not a job of desperation. We do it for fun, but also because we make some extra spending cash to buy toys and also adult "toys". We don't make a living off of this, but we still like to do it. We both at one time in the past, before meeting ran our own individual cams too. We just like to be watched.

    As for people saying this women is ugly or has issues, that's going too far. We don't know her true reasons for being upset. She is overreacting of course, but she has that right think how she wants. She does not have to do this job, so what is the big deal? Why is the news even reporting this? She needs to get over this, and find a job.

  93. Frank Bough
    Stop

    Discrimination

    "If you're old, fat and/or ugly they won't hire you. It's not discrimination to have minimum physical requirements for a job where physical appearance is important."

    I think you need to look up the word 'discrimination' in the dictionary.

  94. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Discrimination

    "If you're old, fat and/or ugly they won't hire you. It's not discrimination to have minimum physical requirements for a job where physical appearance is important."

    I think you need to look up the word 'discrimination' in the dictionary.

    I think you'll find it'd be what the Jobcentre folks would call a "Genuine Occupational Qualification". I think you need to look discrimination up in the statute books.

    Paris? She's done alright out of the whole sex on video thing. Okay she's been in prison for a few hours. I take it back it's the path to hell.

  95. heystoopid
    Paris Hilton

    Sad a case of a wanker who wants to be a wowser

    Sad , what has the world come too when we have wankers turning into prudish wowsers in the up coming last of the Generation X or the first of the Generation Z trying to enforce their narrow minded blinkered throwback Victorian era view of the human body !

    One would wonder how she would react to an ad from the infamous "Lusty Lady" theatre in San Francisco with it's separate paid for time individual viewing glass windows where the intertubes web cam operators got their idea from in the first place . Although the idea in reality dates well back to the fifteenth century , and now we have a new updated electronic version !

    One merely has to tune into normal TV or the ever popular winter favourite "Babe Watch" reruns, go to the cinema or visit a summer beach and see acres of half bare ass flesh of all descriptions from one end to the other ! How one can forget come the cold December winds from the steppes even Pravda prints a page or two of Oz Bondi Bikini birds to liven up the bleary Russian winter season.

    Say , don't the Welsh have a few sun lover camps dotted in odd places through out their landscape as well as a popular summer tourist attraction !

    Oh well "move along nothing to see except a self wanking person who wants to be and/or er desires to be the next generation of leading wowsers of an elected ambitious politician undoubtedly with double hyphen funny name to whip us back to the dark ages" .

    For those that fail to learn the lessons from history are but doomed to repeat the same mistakes for eternity , but sadly some women are not as smart as others and in places like Finland or Sweden she would be met with a very frosty reception the moment she opened her mouth about this alleged problem of her self inflicted prudery !

  96. Andy Worth

    Tell the truth please......

    .....You're just outraged about this being advertised because you're fuck ugly and know that you wouldn't get the job, aren't you?

    WTF does a few naked, 18+ chicks on a webcam have to do with "child-safety" on the internet? She may be studying a masters degree, but evidently "studious" doesn't necessarily mean "smart".

  97. Stu
    Paris Hilton

    I think we all would prefer...

    ...for her to stop talking, take the job and take off her kit for the rest of El Reg readers to see.

    Just a thought..... =)

    (Paris, another we all love to see without her kit on!)

  98. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In my opinion...

    Working in McDonalds is demeaning, degrading, and exploitative.

    I imagine that most people working in McDonalds work there out of desperation, and that, given a choice, they would rather be working elsewhere.

    Therefore, job adverts for McDonalds should be banned.

  99. Mark

    @j

    "I think this is a chicken and egg argument"

    Hey, I didn't know you were into that kinky stuff..!

    But *how* is it a chicken and egg argument? Surely it used to be "if you can beat up anyone who wants to stop you, bang away". It's now no longer true. And protecting women has enabled women (or the women and men in charge of them) to enrich themselves. If men were allowed to beat pimps up and molest their ho's, pimps wouldn't exist (there'd be no money in it). What IS possible is that women may be given no choice in the matter, but that's hardly the case here. And even then, it's still exploiting the customer it's just also exploiting the pro.

  100. Mark

    Re: A sad way to live

    Heck, I wouldn't let my daughter work in the armed forces.

    Does that mean that working in the armed forces is degrading?

    I wouldn't say "no" to working in the sex industry and that's the ONLY person I have the right to demand obey my wishes. ME.

  101. Andy G
    Flame

    Refering to my earlier comment

    i think there should be a prize for the first LEGITIMATE piccy of this young lady

    ;)

    Maybe then comments can rest easy.

    oh - @ Tom Watson - nice effort dude. shame no cigar !!

    c'mon. the challenge is on !!!!

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  104. Name

    Age discrimination

    >I wonder how they cope with age/sex discrimination?

    Anti discrimination doesn't guarantee a person will get a job if they can't perform at an acceptable level. This is why you don't see many people in wheelchairs digging up roads for the council. They could probably do it but the work rate would be too low to justify employment cost. The point is you can't decide *just* based on a persons age etc all other things being equal.

  105. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Sexploitation!

    Right this is clearly an issue of Sexploitation but as it probably gets tossers off benefits, saves my taxes, pays them a decent wage and then earns taxes from them its got to be a good thing!

    Hell i am even in favour of poppy cultivation, stop all those dam imports, create jobs, save taxes, increase tax revenue, help the balance of payments. Might as well its not as if were actually trying to reduce the number of smack heads, they have their own role models now and everything.

    This isnt news its just capitalism and stuff, if they can make money off some sad numpty who pays them to strip via webcam then who cares. I mean FFS we have strip clubs and they are much better value for money ............ erm .............. allegedly!

  106. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Andrew Thomas

    >> If you think there's nothing wrong with "sex work", just answer this:

    >> Would you want your daughter to do it?

    I don't think there are many jobs I would be happy for 18 *month* old daughter to do.

  107. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Would you want your daughter to do IT?

    I went into I.T. against my father's wishes. He didn't think it was a good career choice (and 25 years on I'm finally ready to agree!). While there are many legal professions I wouldn't want to see my kids go into either, if they choose one of them when they are adults they will probably tell me to mind my own business when I comment about their choice (which of course I will, it's a parental duty).

    Yes, the sex trade is full of forced, trafficked, tricked, drugged and desperate people. That is a huge problem, and legalisation doesn't solve it overnight either. But it also has willing participants (porn stars, playboy bunnies, strippers, chat/cam operators, girls-gone-wild, and pricey prostitutes to the stars/politicians).

    Maybe if a legal brothel could legally advertise for prostitutes and recruit locally for the willing, the market for trafficked ones would get a lot less profitable.

    Now that I think of it, if my daughter started in porno and ended up inheriting $200,000,000 from her dead 95 years old oil barron husband-of-only-3-years by the time she was 35 I'd say she was doing rather better for herself than I'll ever be able to!

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