back to article Price cut fails to push Xbox 360 past PS3 in UK

Microsoft this week claimed to have more doubled the Xbox 360’s European sales thanks to its recent price cut, but that still hasn’t been sufficient to put it ahead of the PlayStation 3 or the Wii in the UK. The software giant made the bold sales claim yesterday, a month after the price cut came into effect. On 14 March, up to …

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  1. Abe

    @ Mark

    commence the fanb0y's gobbling

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wave effect

    Just before a price cut vendors warn the retailers, they in turn reduce stocks on shelves causing a trough in sales.

    Just after the price cut those people that couldn't find it on the shelves can buy again, causing a crest of higher sales.

    So add a bit to the trough, take away a bit from the crest and that's the XBox sales numbers. A bit behind the PS3 and way behind the Wii.

    Mario Galaxy is great BTW.

  3. Mark
    Stop

    Xbox 360 total sales still well ahead

    Don't forget though that the Xbox 360 is around 7 million units ahead of the PS3 in Europe. Sony's biggest problem is that it's looking like they will never surmount Microsoft's lead.

  4. Martin Saunders
    Gates Horns

    Shop floor space

    Something has started to really perplex me now. Why is it that, with Nintendo continuing to sell so many more consoles, so far as I've seen the games shops still dedicate far more shelf space to PS3 and Xbox games? Do Sony and Microsoft have some deal with the big chains to give their titles more exposure?

  5. Aaron
    Thumb Up

    Good

    The Wii deserves it. It is innovative and creative, not just gloss and pretty graphics that hide the lack of gameplay.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    you know

    I'm far more interested in seeing the real money maker figure - how many games have been sold in total for each console.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    @Mark

    "Don't forget though that the Xbox 360 is around 7 million units ahead of the PS3 in Europe."

    Don't be so stupid.

    The last confirmed GLOBAL sales showed:

    PS3: 10.5 million

    360 18 Million.

    We also know the Japan figures:

    PS3 2 Million

    360: 1/2 million

    That totally blows your claims of 7million difference in Europe out of the water (bearing in mind, PS3 is very strong in Europe, and 360 is strong in the US).

    In Europe, I would be suprised if the difference between 360 ownership and PS3 ownership is more than a million tops.

  8. Mark
    Gates Horns

    @Martin Saunders

    No, 95% of Wii games suck badly, and simply bomb.

    A very large proportion of Wii's never see any other game than Wii Sports, and if they do, it's Mario Galaxy, SSB or MarioKart

    Everything else sucks, Wii owners know that, like everyone else does.

  9. Eponymous Cowherd
    Thumb Up

    Re:Shop floor space

    ***"Why is it that, with Nintendo continuing to sell so many more consoles, so far as I've seen the games shops still dedicate far more shelf space to PS3 and Xbox games? Do Sony and Microsoft have some deal with the big chains to give their titles more exposure?"***

    Also wondered the same thing. Same goes for rentals. Blockbuster rent PS2, PS3 and '360 games, but not Wii, despite the Wii having a far bigger user base than the PS3 and therefore, I assume, better rental potential.

    Still waiting for the first fanboi "but the Wii isn't a real next gen console" comment......

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Shop floor space = churn

    "Why is it that, with Nintendo continuing to sell so many more consoles, so far as I've seen the games shops still dedicate far more shelf space to PS3 and Xbox games?"

    Game churn, PS3 and XBox360 have more crud titles, which sell and are discarded quicker. So their buyers buy more games per console that Wii, each game being played for less time and thrown away much quicker.

    Wii has it's share of crud too, but Nintendo keep tight reigns on the licensing so the crud tends to be big name titles only.

    e.g. I bought Pirates of the Caribbean on Wii and it was rubbish. I bought Mario Galaxies and it's brilliant. But Mario Galaxies has so far kept us occupied for 3 weeks, Pirates of the Carib was thrown in the heap after a day.

    I've no doubt you can find good titles on PS3 & XBx but only by wading through and awful lot of tosh.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    @martin

    Marting, the reason they have so much space is to duplicate the same game 50 times over, just a slight difference in the graphics...

  12. Jamie Davis
    Go

    @Martin Saunders

    Couldn't agree more!

    I would hazard a guess at it being money driven, these things normally are.

    Someone once told me that Proctor & Gamble paid supermarkets to put Sunny Delite in the chiller cabinets because it promotes a healthy image alongside the real fruit juices when, in reality, it keeps quite nicely at room temperature.

    I would be interested if someone on el reg could tell us whether something similar is happening here. Either that, or is there more mark-up for the retailor for non-Wii games and thus it's in their interests to put a spread on.

    For a console that has a "healthy" lead over the combined sales of its competitors, its shelf space is frequently less than half of the XBox and PS3. Also - anyone else notice how it's always at the back?

  13. jai

    re: Shop floor space

    it's probably the cost. Wii games are at least a tenner cheaper than PS3/360 games aren't they? I assume that the shops are taking a percentage of the cost, rather than a flat fee per game, so they're keen to push the more expensive ones perhaps

  14. paul
    Flame

    my wii is reborn

    After the novalty of wii sports wore off, my wii started to collect dust. Resident evil , mario galaxy and metroid were all ok - but multiplayer is where the wii is best.

    Now mario kart is out, the four wii motes have been dusted and ready for use again. Its nice to see a internet game on the wii that isn't crap or take forever to play.

    Still , GT5 and COD4 keep my PS3 busy. Both top games.

    Finally after many years , video games are booming!

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Confirmation of The Register's PS3 bias?

    This article seems to confirm that The Register has something against the XBox 360. They've conveniently missed the fact that the 360 is still the next gen console with the most sales in Europe and whilst it may not have caught up with the PS3 on European sales it's closed the gap enough to ensure the PS3 aint gonna catch it up in the next 5 years at current rate.

    Similarly it missed another important point of the press release, that the 360 still has by far the most game sales per console of any of the current gen consoles such that the 360 has an average of 7 games sold per console, the PS3 3.8 and the Wii 3.5. This is extremely important as software sales are what make games consoles worth creating in the first place and Microsoft and Sony's case where the profit margin on hardware sits somewhere between negative and very small positive.

    Quite how The Register has twisted this article into a negative for the XBox I'm unsure because the press release also points out that the Xbox 360 console ownes 42% of the market in terms of life-to-date revenue in the EMEA area.

    Furthermore regarding the PS3 it's also worth noting that the PS3 sales have absolutely plumetted in Japan with only 8,000 sold last month - whilst this is still much better than the 360 in Japan I should point out that the Wii shifted 49,000 in the same time. When the 360 already has a stranglehold on the US being by far the most successful console there this round, is still in the lead overall in Europe and whilst week in Japan, is also seeing it's closest competitor the PS3 struggling it really doesn't bode well for Sony.

    Of course the Wii is still on top of the game this round but the 360 still holds a clear second place. With Sony failing in Japan now, the 360 still being well ahead of the PS3 in the US and Europe with no hope of Sony being able to catch up within the next 5 years and with it losing ground on software sales ever since release the console war is pretty much decided. The Wii gets gold medal, the 360 silver and the PS3 a clear last place with Bronze.

    On a final note, why was this article exclusive? It's been common knowledge since the MS press release yesterday. The Register will only harm it's credibility further trying to suggest exclusivity on stories it doesn't have exclusivity on unless exclusive was merely referring to the fact it's the only news story unable to publish the full facts and twist things into the PS3s favour incorrectly?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ Shop floor space

    "Do Sony and Microsoft have some deal with the big chains to give their titles more exposure?"

    Yes, that's generally how it works. Suppliers pay for rack space, provide displays, incentives etc to the chains to place their products. Windows, racks, floor standees, website space - even those "Top Ten" charts are up for sale.

    Nintendo probably think they don't need to; the british press pretty much advertises the Wii for free these days! See all the current "Wii Fit" 'news' stories for an example.

  17. jai

    @Mark

    and don't forget yourself that the 360 has been on sale for 18 months longer than the PS3

    7 millions units is not that great a lead to have, given the headstart the 360 had.

    i don't think the ps3 will have any trouble at all selling 7 million units over the next 18 months.

  18. MarmiteToast
    Flame

    The Wii needs to die

    I own both the 360 and a PS3 and a friend regularly brings his Wii round to my house.

    Having played the Wii I'll admit that it is amazing, innovative and creative... for about 2 weeks. After that it's an awfully poor games console that's more of a gimmick.

    Of course this isn't a problem for Nintendo because the don't sell their hardware at a loss and will make a bit of money as people buy lots of games to find one decent one.

    As far as the 360 and PS3 goes... they're used about 30%:70% respectively but the PS3 is definitely the better console.

  19. Tony Smith, Editor, Reg Hardware (Written by Reg staff)

    @Anonymous Coward re. Bias

    It's an exclusive because only we have the Chart Track and Sony info. Other sites that simply parroted the Microsoft press release didn't bother to check with anyone else. We did.

    MS' claimed attachment rates are questionable and disputed by other console makers. Watch out for a follow-up story shortly.

    The 360 has been around for 18 months more than the PS3 and a year longer than the Wii in Europe. So of course it's going to show a better life-to-date revenue. What's worrying is that it's still only managed to take a 42 per cent share - less than half - despite this singular advantage.

    For the record, Register Hardware, has no favourite among the three leading consoles. Had Sony or Nintendo made similar claims, we'd have exposed those as meaningless too. A doubling of sales meaningless? It is when the company making the claim doesn't quantify the sales.

    Selling not many consoles then doubling your sales still means you haven't sold very many consoles. Growth rates are meaningless without either a 'before' or 'after' sales figure.

  20. Michael Jolly

    Just a diffrent view

    As i person with all the current gen system and some older ones as well. I have to say the least used consel is the PS3 then the wii then the 360. The PS3 main use is as a DVD player cos it upscales old DVD and they look good. the wii is used a fair bit but as i have a lot of 360 games that gets the most play. I do wish sony would get some good games for the P3 the most played is DMC3 and that my GF game not mine!

  21. Dave Cumming

    Next next gen

    The other factor to remember is probably by the time the PS3 catches up Microsoft will be releasing their next console so once again Sony will be left behind. Fact is they missed the boat bigtime with PS3 and it'll take a miracle for them to EVER catch up.

  22. Justin
    Happy

    @Mark

    Fully agree, everyone I know who has a Wii only wheels out when friends are round. Playing ordinary games sucks on it. I have a family member and 3 friends who have them. Its lots of fun playing some kind of multi-player game, however normal games just suck on it, controls are too awkward. Most of them, with one exception either sold their Wii's or bought a 360 to play normal games. Also a lot of people who own Wii's aren't the typical game playing crowd which might go someway toward explaining its popularity.

    I have a 360, would have bought a PS3 if it hadn't been delayed so long, unlikely to buy one now as have invested too much in the 360.

  23. Eponymous Cowherd
    Joke

    Wii all the way home.

    Yes, the PS3 and '360 have photorealistic graphics, HD, yadda, yadda, yadda. But they offer *nothing* more by way of gameplay than a PS1. All you PS and '360 fanbois do is squat on the ground and play with your knobs.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    can we have a top 10 best selling consoles of all time?

    how much is the PS 2 selling these days, and over its lifee time?

    vs the xbox or other consoles?

    still by the bucket load!?

    I bet the Ps3 still sells long after the X360 and Wii are reduced to PC based emulators?

    can we have a top 10 best selling consoles of all time?

    dr mr Reg, I am sure youd be happy to look into this as a bit of homework!?

  25. Phil

    re: shop floor space

    The Wii is a different sort of games console with a different user base.

    I bet when the Wii fit is released, it will be in all the gameshops windows and prominent areas.

    The fact of the matter is, teenagers with 360's and PS3's are going to be spending their pocket money/paper round money on the latest game as soon as they can afford them (and give them £200, they would have no shortage of games to buy).

    The same teenagers, while they may well like the Wii, have a go at a sports challenge on it now and again etc, given the choice, would want to buy games for the PS3 or 360 first.

    I have PS3, 360 and Wii in my house, if I turned the Wii on tonight, both my teenagers would want a quick go, want to vote on the voting channel and see the results of previous votes etc, but within the hour would want to be on COD4, Halo etc on the 360 or PS3.

    A lot of people I know with the Wii aren't what I'd call hardcore gamers, they enjoy playing the supplied sports game, enjoy messing around with their Mii's etc and hardly (if ever) go into a video games store.

  26. Andy Turner

    MarmiteToast is right

    "Having played the Wii I'll admit that it is amazing, innovative and creative... for about 2 weeks. After that it's an awfully poor games console that's more of a gimmick"

    He's right. The games that sell the Wii consoles are easy to pick up but as a result, they have no depth and soon lose their appeal. Sure the family all played Wii Sports on Christmas day, but how often does the unit get touched these days? The controllers, whilst innovative, introduce a level of randomness and luck that doesn't reward continuous play/practice. Remember how lame it was when a beginner could mash the buttons in Tekken and beat someone who'd played it for months? That's the Wii games all over. Wii Pro Evo looks interesting though, and has the level of practice=reward that Wii games need to introduce.

    I think a stat of the number of games sold per console would be interesting. I suspect it would be quite high for the 360 (maybe average 8-10 and increasing), followed by PS3 (ave 4-5 or so and increasing), followed by the Wii (1-2 and static).

  27. Paul Talbot

    Meh

    @MarmiteToast:

    "Having played the Wii I'll admit that it is amazing, innovative and creative... for about 2 weeks."

    I usually say this is the point where you have to start playing games that weren't bundled with the console.

    Or are you telling me that after 2 weeks you've already had enough of playing *every* good game with innovative controls like Mario Kart, Metroid Prime, Okami Wii, Elebits, Madden and Trauma Center, party games like Rayman and WarioWare as well as plain good games like Mario Galaxy, Zelda, No More Heroes, Smash Bros, Guitar Hero 3 and Zack & Wiki?

    If so, you're either lying or need to get out more. Can we please stop these ridiculous comments? Everybody who wants to test out the Wii has done so by now. Either they've bought it (or want to buy it) or they haven't/don't want to. Let's stop with the "I don't own one / haven't played anything other than Wii Sports and it sux!" comments.

  28. jai

    the press releases from the big 3

    if anyone wants to read the way in which each company has spun this data in their press releases, vgchartz.com has all three so you can make up your own mind:

    wii:

    http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=1045

    ps3:

    http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=1046

    360:

    http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=1047

  29. steogede
    Thumb Up

    @mark re:@martin saunders

    >> No, 95% of Wii games suck badly, and simply bomb.

    >>

    >> A very large proportion of Wii's never see any other game than Wii

    >> Sports, and if they do, it's Mario Galaxy, SSB or MarioKart

    >>

    >> Everything else sucks, Wii owners know that, like everyone else does.

    I am mostly inclined to agree with that. I am sure there are deals for shelfspace going on, but I doubt much of it is paid for by MS and Sony. I imagine that rival game publishers buy shelfspace for their games, on the Wii most of the big titles are published by Nintendo so there isn't so much competition for shelfspace - similarly whilst popular titles sell masses, most of the less popular games are aimed at Niche markets (cooking mama) there is the same fight over the middle ground as their is on the 'proper' consoles.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ Tony Smith, Re: Bias

    @ Tony Smith, Editor, Reg Hardware

    Ref: MS' claimed attachment rates are questionable and disputed by other console makers. Watch out for a follow-up story shortly.

    Does this surprise you? People have been questioning Microsofts figures on their operating system for quite a while so why would they change tact on their games market. Generally Microsofts figures are based on what they deliver, not what retailers deliver, so if Microsoft sell 10 items but they sit on a shop shelf then Microsoft count those 10 as sold. I have heard that if the 10 items were sent back then Microsoft still count them as sold.

  31. Mark
    Gates Horns

    re Confirmation of The Register's PS3 bias?

    Of course the attach rate on the 360 will be higher, owners have had 18months more time to accumulate games..

    Simple really..

  32. jai

    Games Sold per Console

    check out this link

    http://vgchartz.com/weekly.php

    and scroll down to the pie charts - these are the stats for the most recent week

    Software Totals:

    Console Weekly

    Wii 2,674,304

    DS 1,531,044

    X360 1,116,718

    PS3 876,520

    PSP 627,021

    PS2 528,796

    GBA 636

    Total 7,355,039

  33. Ryan

    Hmmm

    I own the three consoles and:

    The Wii is boring unless you have your mates around with a load of beers.

    The PS3 needs a lot more exclusive games.

    My Xbox 360 has just come back with its FOURTH red ring of death.

    I play on them all but my Xbox gets used more, if developers took more advantage of the PS3’s disc capacity and hardware I would be playing it a lot more.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Xbox will die because.....

    it's supporters can't think of a reason it will live.

    Look at the above comments, you have various attacks on the Wii, attempts to claim the Wii is a niche, claims that it sells more games (ignoring that it's sales per year that matter, not accumulated past sales), talking up past sales, even though it sells less now, attacking elReg as biased,... etc.

    They just don't have a good argument as to why XBox will make a comeback in sales. It's not the cheapest, not the best, not selling the most, not got any novelty value, not sexier, not got a BluRay player built in, not the most reliable... there are lots of things it's not. On the other hand when I'm a customer wanting to buy a console, I should choose the Xbox because.... erm, well no reason.

  35. Eponymous Cowherd
    Joke

    Usual Suspects

    ***"Also a lot of people who own Wii's aren't the typical game playing crowd which might go someway toward explaining its popularity."***

    Yeeees (said with a Paxman-like drawl), I can just picture "the typical game playing crowd". Ugh!

    Mind you, with the Wii outselling the PS3 and '360 put together, you are about to be outnumbered by normal people.

  36. Mark
    Gates Horns

    I meant 1 million not 7

    Ooops. I admit I cocked up on the figures. The 360 actually has a 1 million unit lead over the PS3 in Europe and about 7 million worldwide. However at the current sales rate it'll still take the PS3 many, many years before it overtakes the 360 for total sales. Well before which time the Xbox 720 will be released and it'll start all over again.

    So unless 360 sales really start to nosedive or PS3 sales suddenly take off at a rapid rate, which I can't see happening, then the 360 appears to have won this generation in Europe and the USA. Well done them.

    To be honest though Sony have handed the victory to them on a plate. They've dropped the ball big time - we'll have to see if they can make a better fist of the PS4.

    And yes I am discounting the Wii as a next gen console, just as I'm discounting the DS and PSP. Nintendo have created their own niche and are doing very well out of it but it's target market are very different to that of the 360 and PS3.

  37. Si

    @Mark RE: Attach rates

    "Of course the attach rate on the 360 will be higher, owners have had 18months more time to accumulate games.. Simple really.."

    Assuming the reported 360 attach rates are accurate, then the 360 has always had a better rate than the other consoles. It started at 4 at launch, was at 5 a year later and now apparently sits at 7. The PS3 is only at 3.8 so far so it does seem to be lagging in software sales a bit. I suppose this could be attributed to some PS3 buyers just getting the system to be a Blu-Ray player, so they contribute to the hardware sales total but not the attach rate.

  38. Mark
    Thumb Up

    @ Mr anon

    'They just don't have a good argument as to why XBox will make a comeback in sales. It's not the cheapest, not the best, not selling the most, not got any novelty value, not sexier, not got a BluRay player built in, not the most reliable... there are lots of things it's not. On the other hand when I'm a customer wanting to buy a console, I should choose the Xbox because.... erm, well no reason.'

    Because it has the best collection of exclusive games of any of the platforms.

    Because it has the best online gaming experience.

    Because the achievements and gamerscore system is genius.

    Because it has the best controller (featuring rumble from day one).

    Because multi platform titles are often technically superior and never inferior.

    Because Xbox Live is regularly updated with quality content - and this is synchronised worldwide - not just in the USA.

    Because Xbox Live is fully integrated with the internet.

    Because of Xbox Live Arcade which features some great old and new games.

    Because it is backwards compatible with most of the best Xbox games (several of which you can buy and download straight away).

    Because it offers the cheapest way to watch HD movies.

    Because of the video market place which is a reasonable first stab at online film rental.

    Because you can stream video, music and pictures from your PC to your TV via it.

    Because it will feature exclusive GTA IV downloadable content.

    Will that do you for now? ;-)

  39. Shonko Kid
    Jobs Horns

    Floor space...

    Sony's (and M$ have copied) games strategy is to flood the market with a wide range of titles, way more than is typically available on the Nintendo - except of course in Japan, which is a different story all together - this will be part of the reason why less space is devoted to Wii, there's just not the range of games. As a percentage, I think the Wii has more good games than PS3/XBox360, though the actual number may be much the same. I also think the churn caused by trade-ins has an effect, basically, I think Wii owners are likely to own fewer titles, and keep them longer, and so the shops stock to suit.

    Theres another possible effect not mentioned, imports. The EU versions of the previous two Nintendos were fairly shitty compared to the US or Japanese versions, and the Wii suffered from being launched months later (nearly a year?). So perhaps there's a fair chunk of Wii owners with US consoles, who can't buy in shops, further reducing the customer base, and hence the need for floor space.

    Now. If only Apple would make a console and put an end all this bickering of which is best.

    iBox r00lz!!!eleven!!

  40. Marco Alfarrobinha
    Gates Halo

    @ Mark

    Thank you.

    The controller side of it, seems to be a neglected area, the PS3's absolutly crap and useless and it is the single reason why I chose the 360, but the rest holds true any time.

    Ok, we have a RRoD issue, it is a bloody inconvenience being without it for a week (or two) while it is on holiday in Havant, but, for some reason, it always feels good to have it back and get it going again!

    Sue me because I love the 360.

  41. Dave

    @Martin Saunders

    There are no documented contractual deals for shelf space for the systems and software, its simply a scratching back's exercise that Sony have been playing for many a year. Chains that keep a certain amount of shelf space seem to get slightly larger allocations of new hardware and a slight priority on restocks. The big boys also cover the costs for most of the chains POS, like Intel paying half of your advertising if you put their logo on your ads. (Which they cut back on after Time skanked them, ran ads with intel logo's then sold the punters AMD kit for bigger profit)

    The non-conspiracy reason is simpler though, Wii gear is selling so well they never have enough to fill the shelves :D

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Mark, @Si

    Si: "Then the 360 has always had a better rate than the other consoles. It started at 4 at launch"

    At launch it must have been zero since bundles don't count as sold games. If they bought 4 with the console then those buyers have only bought 3 over the following 2 years, 1.5 per year.... vs 3 & 3.8 for the Wii and Xbox360!

    Mark:

    "Because it has the best collection of exclusive games of any of the platforms."

    Lots of buzzword, but no names of titles. That speaks volumes to me. Sales figure say Wii sports, Mario house party, Galaxies, etc. are the best collection of exclusive games.

    "Because it has the best online gaming experience"

    I guess the attraction is multi-player, Wii wins multi-player, Wii Sports, now Mario cart etc..

    "Because the achievements and gamerscore system is genius."

    Yeh, that's top of my list of things in a console too, I said to the sales representative that I wanted a good achievement and gamescore system. Mario awards bonus stars for you for saying that!

    "Because it has the best controller (featuring rumble from day one)."

    No Wii has rumble, motion, keys, joystick, two handed acceleration and pointer detection. Oh an now it has the pressure board aswell.

    "Because multi platform titles are often technically superior and never inferior."

    No, they're written down to the capabilities of the lowest platform. You can't make a game for 3 platforms that only runs on 2 of them because of some feature.

    "Because Xbox Live is regularly updated with quality content - and this is synchronised worldwide - not just in the USA."

    So you're offering me cake tomorrow, and promise it will arrive the same time as Juan in Spain, or Kiri in Japan? Don't see why I would buy something on the promise it will be better tomorrow.

    "Because Xbox Live is fully integrated with the internet."

    Does it play BBC iPlayer?

    "Because of Xbox Live Arcade which features some great old and new games."

    Like Wii Arcade? Only with fewer titles because Nintendo have more old titles! Luigi is nota so convins-ed.

    "Because it is backwards compatible with most of the best Xbox games"

    So I have these old XBox titles lying around, but somehow don't have an XBox to play them on, and so naturally I went out and bought an XBox360 for it's good backward compatibility..... not convinced. Why would I buy old titles, and if I wanted old titles why wouldn't I buy an old XBox? Keep in mind the PS3 wins the backwards compatibility game hands down!

    "Because it offers the cheapest way to watch HD movies."

    Sky has the cheapest offer, Bluray has the widest choice.

    "Because of the video market place which is a reasonable first stab at online film rental..Because you can stream video, music and pictures from your PC to your TV via it....Because it will feature exclusive GTA IV downloadable content"

    'reasonable'? Media player repeater? GTA *FOUR*, as in version 4? No even exclusive, just exclusive extra content?

    FFS, they're competing against a new console with new games controls and exclusive content, the cheapest, the biggest seller, with iPlayer and Internet etc. and even the second player, the PS3, best graphics, BluRay bundles, if back catalogue is your thing (unlikely to be a factor) PS2 and games too!

    'reasonable' doesn't cut it, buzzwords won't cut it, they need something, some hook, some magic, some killer thing that lifts them back up to be a contender.

  43. Daniel B.
    Thumb Down

    These darned console wars...

    Xbox360 survived because of the same reason the Xbox did: Halo. It was all that hype on Halo 3 that brought on the "FPS d00dz" just wanting to play the überFPS of da centoory! Of course that after that, the Xbox360 sales won't fly as high 'coz there's no "Halo 4" to buy one; by now everyone who wanted to play it has a 360. Or has a very dead RROD'd 360.

    Newcomers ain't so keen in buying it, because of the RROD. Its funny how the Xbox managed to *not* BSOD with games, as it was widely expected back when it was released; that's a big feat for Microsoft, given the shoddy quality of its products.

    Truth is, only the "gringos" are buying Xboxen en masse, Japanese dudes are going for the Wii or the PS3; and even my close friends are either Wii owners, PS3 owners, or (like me) saving $$$ to buy a PS3. Fortunately, I can take an $80/roundtrip flight to the US border and get one of those $500 MGS4-packed consoles as soon as they come out this July.

    Which, given the strength of said title, makes me think that this pack would do to the PS3 what Halo did to the Xbox.

    As for online content, well... the Wii has it, the PS3 has it, and the 360 ... ummm what??? You have to PAY for that?!?! I thought paying for online play was as dead as the "TEN Network" 12 years ago, thanks to Quake's "everyone can set up a Quake server" methodology.

    I doubt MS would even dare do a "720", they've lost loads with this one, and if the "720" comes out with as many issues as this one, there will not be a "Halo X" to save the console sales... it might end up being the new N-64. Oh wait, the N64 actually worked as advertised, it was the games that sucked...

  44. Si

    @Anonymous Coward

    "At launch it must have been zero since bundles don't count as sold games. If they bought 4 with the console then those buyers have only bought 3 over the following 2 years, 1.5 per year.... vs 3 & 3.8 for the Wii and Xbox360!"

    I'm not sure that's correct, as you need to take into account people buying new systems all the time. A launch buyer may have bought 14 games after two years, but someone who only bought their system last Christmas will only have a couple of games. That will skew the attachment average to be somewhere between those two extremes.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    Nintendo says 113 million games were sold for the Wii

    The Wii had an average 5.7 games sold per system as of 31 Dec 2007, according to Nintendo's financial reports [1]. Or 4.9 if you insist on excluding a certain bundled game, which I think is wrong, because Wii Sports is a genuine system seller, but there you go. An excellent attach rate which makes the Wii the #1 software seller overall, ahead of the 360.

    If you're an 360 fanboy you should go with the times and stop mentioning attach rates. Microsoft has already done that. They've on to other, more hillarious spin, as this Reg article is pointing out well.

    [1] http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2008/080124e.pdf

  46. Si

    @Anonymous Coward

    I'm not an Xbox fanboy, I believe you have to own all the systems if you want to enjoy the best games. But what has anything I've said got to do with the Wii? In my first post I pointed out that the 360's attach rate was higher than the PS3's at the same points in their life-cycle, I made no mention of the Wii.

    And what makes you think Microsoft no longer mention their attach rates? It was the first bullet point in their recent press release about US sales!

  47. Mark

    @Mt Anon, again

    ''reasonable' doesn't cut it, buzzwords won't cut it, they need something, some hook, some magic, some killer thing that lifts them back up to be a contender.'

    I own a Wii - it's nice - but apart from the controller it is technically inferior to the 360 and the PS3 in every way. It also has some nice games but they are unfortunately few and far between with 6 months or more between the release of each triple A game. The games are also released up to a year earlier in Japan and the USA, Europe gets a very raw deal on this front.

    Where Ninty have knocked the ball out of the stadium is on the marketing front. They show normal people playing fun games in an innovative way that non gamers can relate to. Calling the controller a 'remote' was also very clever as everyone knows how to use a remote control. It's been a great success and I wish them well. It doesn't make their machine any more than a bodged Gamecube though, not capable of the genre stretching games that the PS3 and 360 are starting to release.

    GTA IV will be a good example of this. Wii owners may be a little miffed that it isn't released on their machine. If you want amazing games like this then you need a 360 or a PS3, and in my humble opinion the 360 trumps the PS3 on many fronts.

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    oh what a shame....

    M$ could only outsell sony for one week, shows the price reduction really worked... NOT

    The new figures show PS3 outsold xblot360 in all markets with a 40,000 margin worldwide...

    I also find it brilliant how many people are actually trading in the xblots and their wii for the PS3.

    @mark. your humble opinion should be that xblot is a cheap, unreliable piece of crap which had 18 months start on the competition and is slowly going to lose the war....

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    @Mark

    Actually it's looking like the PS3 version of GTA IV trumps the 360 version, with better graphics, more populated enviroments lack of famerate problems (the 360 has ample of this apparently), and exclusive multiplayer splitscreen. (360 lacks this too).

    Sure it's got exclusive DLC, but then so has the PS3 version of GTA IV. It's also got Home integration coming.

    Why should be believe a single word you say, when you try and BS us to the tune of 6 million console sales?

    As a side note, it's looking like Europe sales of PS3 are about to overtake that of the 360 ( a million shortfall, broken down country by country, and it's only takes a 20,000 in each country, and that million has evaporated.)

    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/29430/Reeves-PS3-will-overtake-360-by-summer

    I would also expect MGS4 to close that gap dramtically too. Easilly by October, the gap could be 3m globally, with Japan and Europe having more PS3's.

    Paris, because working on the farm, even she can smell your bullshit.

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    @mark

    no bullshit.... look at the sales figures..

    and the PS3 exclusives haven't been released yet.

  51. Iain

    @Anonymous Coward

    Yes, because you've seen GTA4 running outside of Rockstar North's offices yourself, haven't you? It only went to the duplicator the other day; all "reviews" published so far were based on unfinished code played for an afternoon with a PR person hovering over the shoulder.

    So I recommend you stop accusing others of BS.

    Re: MGS4, I really think PS3 owners need to calm down a little about it. the last one sold 3.1 million copies to a PS2 audience over over 60 million. How many of those 3 million people are going to want number 4, and how many haven't bought a PS3 already?

  52. Neil
    Go

    @ @Mark

    "Actually it's looking like the PS3 version of GTA IV trumps the 360 version, with better graphics, more populated enviroments lack of famerate problems (the 360 has ample of this apparently), and exclusive multiplayer splitscreen. (360 lacks this too)."

    Has it? How do you know this? Please tell.

    I will be getting the PS3 version myself as I don't have a 360 and don't think I'll be getting one any time soon. Don't get me wrong, the 360 plays great games but let be honest, the hardware is underdeveloped, much like dropping a V12 in a Morris Marina, lol

  53. Abe

    @neil

    "much like dropping a V12 in a Morris Marina, lol"

    Laughing at your own jokes :( Why not wear a sign saying "im a bell end"

    has the same effect.

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Actually

    I'd like to know how many Xbox360 and wii owners have traded in for the PS3. I have quite a few friends who have traded in their machines for the PS3 and every time I visit game, their seems to be at least 2 people in there trading up.

    So that would mean the Xbox base might not be quite as high as everyone thinks.

    @Iain.

    MSG4 isn't the only exclusive for the PS3, how about Drakes Fortune, Gran Turismo (even the prologue version sold over a million before it's release date), Killzone 2, Resistance 2, MotoStorm 2, Final Fantasy, LittleBigPlanet... do I need to go on.... and the XBOX gets HALO3, please the first one was a huge pile of crap, I know I played it.

    And I'm not even a PS3 fanboi, I do most of my gaming on the PC.

    Paris, she'd like you, she likes dicks.

  55. Paul Kerton
    Thumb Down

    Nonsense comments all coming from Anoymous Coward

    GTAIV having different features on the PS3 is a lie. The two versions of the game, except for colour pallettes are identical, and the 360 was the lead development platform, making the PS2 version no more than a port.

    Also, any PS3 DLC will also be available on the 360, which cannot be said for any DLC the 360 will be getting, and its appearance on the PS3.

    There is no "exclusive multiplayer" on the PS3... I have all 3 systems, and pound for pound the 360 has been the best value out of all three.

    MSG4 is also not a system seller in Europe like GTA is. The console "war" in Europe will be decided on this simple statement.

    "Do I pay £160 for a machine to play GTA4, or do I pay £300 for one... Do I want all the downloadable content to be available to me, or do I want just some of it?"

    360's sales will rise considerably next week.

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    @Neil

    I would love to tell you how I know, but my job is worth more than that...

  57. Mark
    Gates Horns

    @Paul Kerton

    Idiot post of the week aware goes to you.

    Firstly you state how important the DLC is, and then in the same breath, compare the (inflated) PS3 price, to the price of the Xbox360 Core/Arcade, which CANNOT PLAY THE DLC..

    Back in the real world, you need a Premium or Elite to play the GTA IV DLC, and the price of those are much closer to the price of a PS3 (£270).

    As for the silly statement "PS3 DLC will also be available on the 360" I challenge you to show me where the 360 is getting Home integration...

    Paris, because even she is not stupid enough to think that the superior hardware in the PS3 won't result in better games. As for the AC claims that the PS3 version is better, nobody knows for another week or so, but there are lots of different sources claiming so, including Rockstar insiders themselves, I am inclined to believe some of it.

  58. John

    The Wii doesn't mean good gameplay, Nintendo does.

    The gamers console is the 360, the PS3 is bought for Blue-ray and the Wii is for those that want to play Nintendo games.

  59. Mark

    @ Mark

    'Paris, because even she is not stupid enough to think that the superior hardware in the PS3 won't result in better games.'

    You see, this is where the Sony hype has worked. The PS3 has proven time and time again that it's strength lies not in games but in it's multi media capabilities. It was designed as a Blu Ray player first and a games machine second, and most of the multi platform games are testament to this fact (e.g. see this article for examples http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=89969).

    I admire your optimism but I think in the long run it will be shown that the biggest problem with the PS3 hardware is that even though it was released over a year after the 360 from a gaming point of view the hardware is inferior. And I won't even go into the cop out that is the PS3 controller - it was in desperate need of a redesign but Sony bottled it at the last moment.

    The real gamers machine at the moment and for the foreseeable future is the 360. Any gamer who doesn't own one (especially at it's new low price) is a fool to themselves. You can order the premium console from Play.com for £200 with GTA IV - now that is a bargain.

  60. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @mark

    how much of a blinkered fanboi tool can you be.

    "biggest problem with the PS3 hardware is that even though it was released over a year after the 360 from a gaming point of view the hardware is inferior"

    P3 : Cell technology, Blu-Ray, HD ready, Upgradeable HDD, Linux installation support.

    XBox360 : old knocked off pc kit you can buy cheap at a car boot sale.

    as for software, all major releases are for both consoles and frankly the exclusive for the xbox are really poor. I'm just waiting for the day when you can't fit the next big game on a DVD because their isn't enough space, then xbox will be screwed.

    for me I'll use my PS3 to play decent games and watch Blu-ray, and for any other game that I can't get for the PS3, I'll wait for the PC release (although frankly so far I haven't found one)

  61. Shakje

    Re: @mark

    Cell vs 3-core dual threading CPU - pretty balanced, Cell handles fp throughput better. I think like other Sony consoles, we'll see better use of the PS3 hardware as the console gets older, not sure if this is a good thing anymore though.

    Blu-ray has nothing to do with gaming.

    HD Ready - why isn't the xbox HD ready?

    Upgradeable HDD - so what's the 120GB xbox HDD about then?

    Linux installation support - so, about that hardware...

    Sorry, but you haven't made any point except to show that you're a tool for not reading what you were arguing against.

    I've got a Wii and I have a PC for proper gaming. I don't really have a preference on the other consoles. While the Wii started gathering a bit of dust, we've recently got back into it, played sports a bit again, and now a lot of GH3. We'll be getting Mario Kart soon, and Wii Fit, and probably Rock Band when it comes out. There's a lot of good titles going to be out on the Wii within the next few months (money spinners at the very least).

  62. Mark
    Flame

    @ Anon

    About time you came out of your shroud of anonymousness.

    'how much of a blinkered fanboi tool can you be.'

    Any need for insults? I own a 360 and a Wii and I owned a PS3 for several months before selling it due to lack of use. How exactly does that make me blinkered? Have you ever owned a 360?

    'P3 : Cell technology, Blu-Ray, HD ready, Upgradeable HDD, Linux installation support.'

    You've proven my point here - none of that makes it a better games machine. For example, the cell chip is ideal for multimedia applications (streaming multiple video channels etc) but very awkward to develop games on. Also why would you want to install Linux on a games machine?

    'XBox360 : old knocked off pc kit you can buy cheap at a car boot sale.'

    The 360 architecture uses custom chips designed purely for gaming (and able to hold it's own on the multimedia front). No PC uses a similar architecture. PC's are also severely bogged down by an operating system based on a 20 year old design.

    'as for software, all major releases are for both consoles and frankly the exclusive for the xbox are really poor.'

    I'm not going to give you a list of amazing exclusive 360 games (which I could as there are plenty), I'm just going to mention one - Bioshock.

    'I'm just waiting for the day when you can't fit the next big game on a DVD because their isn't enough space, then xbox will be screwed.'

    This has already happened and do you know what ingenious method they used to get around the problem? They shipped the game on multiple DVD's - simple.

    'or me I'll use my PS3 to play decent games and watch Blu-ray, and for any other game that I can't get for the PS3, I'll wait for the PC release (although frankly so far I haven't found one)'

    That's great, I wish you well. So why do you feel the need to insult people who defend their preferred form of entertainment?

    Do you perhaps have that sinking feeling you get when you realise you've backed the wrong horse?

    ;-)

  63. Mark Ashworth

    @ Paul Kerton

    Yes, the xbox was the lead platform, but as Rockstar boss Sam Houser has said.

    "I like the way [the PS3] renders.” He concluded, “There’s a certain kind of softness without being blurry - some warmth to it - and then there’s a certain more clinical element to how the 360 looks."

    http://www.videogaming247.com/2008/04/23/gta-iv-the-two-versions-look-different-says-houser/

  64. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    are there 3 different Mark's now in the comments?

    i can make out at least 2 different ones who seem to be having an argument with each other

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