Taped off area out at sea
I did not write that. Before you all start.
The US military has issued a warning notice barring flights above a large area of the northern Pacific for two and a half hours early on Thursday morning. The stricken spy satellite marked for destruction by US warships will pass over the taped-off area just at this time, indicating that the first shot will take place then. …
I haven't yet checked but if this area is - as I strongly suspect - international waters, it will only keep out the rubberneckers who are scared of being hit on the head (either by the satellite or by the US forces in the area).
It's good advice to stay away but outside national boundaries, totally unenforceable. I don't expect this to stop the septics from trying though....
>> "It's good advice to stay away but outside national boundaries, totally unenforceable."
Hum, with a couple of destroyers and other battleships patroling the area, I'm thinking there may be ways for them to enforce it. Sure, it may not be politically or diplomatically correct to do so, but neither is shooting down the satellite, and that didn't stop them with that.
So my guess is that the heavy naval hardware will keep out the rubgberneckers who are scared of, hum, being shot at by warships.
Are we likely to see a youtube video of the missile launch, plus one of those NASA style long distance visual tracking type videos that record the Shuttle as it goes into orbit?
Being a man I like watching things get blowed up. ;-)
Or is it likely to be totally top secret?
Flame icon cos I want 2 see its flames as the satellite drops out of the sky in bits.
for *satellite*, read alien spacecraft, being sneaked in under the cover of a lunar eclipse for a maritime rendezvous with the US military. The warships are to prevent us seeing what's going on, not to shoot down some pretend sattelite. This is the next step in the lizard takeover of Earth, the landing of the cloaked alien mothership in the Pacific.
NOTAMs are a standard warning system used whenever a military force intends a firing of any sort. They are used for civilian hazard warnings, too. They can be (and are) used in both designated exercise/firing areas and on the "high seas". It's a bit unusual to see one this large, though.
As for enforcing them - well, it's your own stupid fault if you ignore a NOTAM and ending up wearing some shrapnel. But, in international waters, it's not legal to stop you, IIRC. It's been a while though and I'm a bit rusty on my maritime law.
As for why they're shooting this thing down? Pretty obvious really. The US military budgets to shoot a certain amount of ammunition each year - I wouldn't be surprised if they budgeted for three SM-3s this year, hence sending three ships with one shot each. That money (for the ammunition accounting line) absolutely *must* be expended this financial year, so they just had to find *something* to shoot. Accountants rule the world, unfortunately.
It's the tweed jacket, thanks.
Look at the positioning, trajectory, hardware. This is all a cover story cunningly engineered to capture attention away from the true objective: the final and long awaited removal of that pesky Canada and the creation of the New North American Sea!!!! Mwwwwaaahahahahahaahahahah!!
Mine's the dressing gown with the pills in the pocket...
1,400 miles long and nearly 700 miles
Hmm, average yacht travels at say 8 knots over the ground, so if you are in there already it could take (weather permitting) at least 87.5 hours (3.6 days) to get out of the way.
As for policing it with a couple of destroyers, have you any idea how big that area is and how hard it is to located an intruder, not to mention even a destroyer doing something like 40 knots could take 1.5 days to get to the intruder.
Thats why it takes sooooo long to rescue people when it all goes tits up out there and you just have to hope there is someone near!
Guess anyone out there will just have to duck.
All these fake conspiracy theories are obscuring the real problem.
The US has openly admitted that the hydrazine on this spacecraft is so dangerous that they have to spend a fortune shooting it down.
But it has been widely reported that lots of similar craft fall back all the time.
Why has the US not shot these down too, since it has explicitly stated that they are deadly dangerous? Why are they bombarding the whole planet with deadly poison gas?? Will your children be poisoned on their way to school by falling US poison satellites??????
Er, thanks, it's the white one with the ties at the back.
If a piece were to come down anywhere close to me I'd phone the American embassy and ask them to collect it and please not to torture me.
Anybody stupid enough to believe the American government would mobilize three warships to shoot down something and then just allow the person who finds the pieces to keep them probably deserves to be waterboarded by the CIA until they confess.
Sure it wouldn't be legal to kidnap and torture the moron trying to sell pieces of satellite but what are you going to do about it? How many missiles did that ship fire? Five? Six? Are you feeling lucky punk? Well are you?
Dirty American Harry is quite correct: A loaded six-shooter aimed at the cranium is a trump in any argument on international law.
On the mailing list where I was made aware of the original NOTAM, an update has been posted by John Locker:
New NOTAM issued for the same period 24 hours later.....similar track...similar acquisition time so they have ignored the 1330 GMT shot and are keeping daylight attempts.
02/067 (A0708/08) - AIRSPACE STATIONARY RESERVATION WITHIN AN AREA BNDD BY 3145N/17012W 2824N/16642W 2352N/16317W 1909N/16129W 1241N/16129W 1239N/16532W 1842N/17057W 2031N/17230W 2703N/17206W SFC-UNL. 22 FEB 02:30 2008 UNTIL 22 FEB 05:00 2008. CREATED: 19 FEB 12:30 2008
02/061 (A0693/08) - AIRSPACE CARF NR. 90 ON EVELYN STATIONARY RESERVATION WITHIN AN AREA BNDD BY 3145N 17012W 2824N 16642W 2352N 16317W 1909N 16129W 1241N 16129W 1239N 16532W 1842N 17057W 2031N 17230W 2703N 17206W SFC-UNL. 21 FEB 02:30 2008 UNTIL 21 FEB 05:00 2008. CREATED: 18 FEB 12:50 2008
Looking at the predictions this could go on for five days or so , with the time of the shot getti8ng a little earlier each day. John
That is a huge area... think of it this way:
john o groats to lands end: approx 1000 miles
lands end to lowestoft: approx 500 miles
Therefore, this exclusion area is over 3 times the size of the UK (yes, I'm including northern Ireland to help make the thing more rectangular)
I'm just wondering if they've considered what will be slightly higher in orbit at the planned time - they're sure to miss (they are Americans) and those missiles will keep going until they hit something!
Usually a satellite comes back to earth only when it has run out of maneuvering fuel - it may still contain nasties such as radioisotopes (or just a lot of mis-placed kinetic energy), but it wouldn't contain the few thousand pounds of hydrazine that this satellite does.
What effect that has on the real reasons for the planned sat destruction is completely unknown.
"Why isn't there a self destruct sequence?"
It's a cunning ploy designed to "out" those El Reg readers who just look at the headlines and then jump straight to the comments section without really having a clue what they're talking about. :)
Bloody hard to issue a self-destruct command if the sat is unresponsive and out of control, which is how they got into this pickle in the first place.
Satelites rarely reenter the atmosphere with more then a tiny amount of fuel left, that is absolutely true.
Now if only we could stop using those huge hydrazine filled liquid boosters that are common to many multiple stage rockets and are often discarded into decaying orbits with quite some fuel (Many more times then the maneuvering fuel for a lousy little satelite) left in them.
...it's not thinking at all. So it doesn't know if it's in free fall, what time it is, or the price of apples.
The self destruct for these things is usually "fire the thrusters into a de-orbit burn", by the way. Exploding it would be a debris hazard and pain in the diplomatic arse.
A de-orbit burn is tricky with dead electronics and a frozen (hydrazine) propellant tank. This thing is as responsive and as controllable (and about as big) as a VW Camper with a flat battery. Tumbling through space. Full of seekrit tech.
Are any bookies offering odds yet?
Only if the electronic watch dog timer is still running. Here's a test for you:
1) reach back and find the power cord on your computer. You know, the one between the wall socket (or UPS) and the back of the power supply in your computer.
2) Yank it out.
3) Type in "format c: <RTN>"
4) Plug that power cord back in.
5) Reboot computer
6) Verify that your C: drive was formated.
7) If not, type in "format c: <RTN>"
Actually, all they are trying to do is destroy the Top Secret computer technology that is on the Apollo 11 lander. They don't want the Chinese to get it and use the information to build there own moon lander.
Or, they are pissed that Directv raised their rates again, so they are going for the 101 sat!
"I'm just wondering if they've considered what will be slightly higher in orbit at the planned time - they're sure to miss (they are Americans) and those missiles will keep going until they hit something!" - anonymous coward.
We be dumb americuns, buts our guns is really gooder than y'alls.
The Imperial Palace Sports Book here in Las Vegas does NOT have a proposition on the event.
I read that the odds are 4 to 1 that it will hit on the first try.
Then there are all the little side bets about where the pieces land.
Better double up on the tinfoil hats this week.
Paris Hilton icon cause her and i both celibrated our birthday last week in the same room. (but not the same day) she looks better in person than in the scrawney pics you always see of her. .
@AnonCwrd: >1,400 miles long and nearly 700 miles wide
> As for policing it with a couple of destroyers, have you any idea how big that area is
A rough estimate (without any kind of map to hand) makes it about four times as large as GB, or perhaps as large as France, Spain and Portugal combined.
More to the point, perhaps as large as Washington, Oregon and California combined.
"they're sure to miss (they are Americans)"
Yes, the well-known inability of the American military to hit anything is what caused Hitler to successfully invade and conquer Britain back in the day, isn't it?
And we managed to miss the Moon completely, and couldn't get any space probes out to Jupiter, Saturn, or beyond.
It's a good job the good old British Space Programme was there to ensure that there was a backup for the American airmen and for NASA.
Tell me, nitwit, did you eat a bowl of Fucking Stupid for breakfast?
"plenty of elbow room to fire their interceptor missiles up into the descending spacecraft's path"
And what happens to the ones that miss. It seems we're trading one bit of wayward satellite for lots of rocket-propelled live ordnance - no wonder they want people out of the area!
PH - the usual reasons.
NOTAMs are usually only suggestive even in U.S. airspace unless they specifically create a TFR (temp. flight restriction). NOTAMs aren't designed to create long-term no-fly-zones. Anyway, why would you have to sneak into the area, and why would anyone want to? By being in there you are the only one that stands a chance of getting a missile or satellite dumped on your head and if you get too close to the AGEIS cruisers I'm sure they'll let you know. Its too big an area to patrol, and so big why would they want to? Its for the benefit of everybody else, mostly commercial jets I'm sure.
send blokes up in the shuttle to paint a union jack or a picture of John Simpson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Simpson) on the satellite, then let the US air force know about it, im sure theyll find some way of blowing it up. and your troops don't have to come to your ally's country to explain why you did it whilst out on a jolly.
little bit of politics ladies and gentlemen, my name's ben elton, good night!
"Yes, the well-known inability of the American military to hit anything is what caused Hitler to successfully invade and conquer Britain back in the day, isn't it?"
err right? when was that? why was that? what did the yanks provide and when did the UK manage to finish paying them off? what did the usa pay for the jet engine? the merlin engine? that computer thing? and we get mac Donald's "friends" and W bush killing 100,000's of people. bring back Ronald Reagan, at least his dementia was bad enough that Nancey would see a clairvoyant to make major policy decisions.. bush coldn't think what to do for 15min's when told in public that 2 planes had slammed into the world trade center buildings. can he go weewee on his own?
Please guys, official units only.
The standard unit of area shall be the nanoWales, defined as 1nWa, representing 0.0000207km2 or 20.78m2, 5.195 Thai talang wah or 28.99 Old Spanish square vara. The microWales, milliWales and Wales (Wa) are, naturally, accepted multiples of the base nanoWales.
* Football pitch = 194.89nWa
* Wales = 1,000,000,000nWa
* Belgium = 1.47Wa
* Democratic Republic of Congo = 113.3Wa
* Known universe (rolled out flat) = 19468502x1012x10256Wa
* The eruption of Vesuvius took out an area of 13 milliWales, although the effects of the blast were felt up to a thousand brontosauruses away. Survivors reported rocks and pumice the size of Bulgarian airbags falling from the sky for three days before the tragedy, and experts have calculated the total debris would fill around 120,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools.
I do aircraft spotting for some lasers in Hawaii*, and at 0330 there's not much out there, other than possibly some flights eastbound from Asia for early-morning arrivals. Everything else tends to operate hours earlier, or take routes south and/or east of the satellite's ground track.
*If you have to ask, you don't need to know.
Sorry to state the bleedin' obvious, but there's a damned good reason why it doesn't have a self-destruct capability.
It wouldn't be as much fun.
Waxproof jacket, green wellies, flat cap and bring round my Aegis destroyer with the hastily modified missiles please. I'm off to go *extreme* clay-pigeon shooting with me mates......
>[to safeguard] the satellite's technology.
Maybe, or just possibly because its the only place where the Americans would be allowed to fire their missiles... One side of the conversation...
"Hey, Mr Putin, its GW here. Could we bring a few anti satellite missiles into Siberia so that we can have a go at shooting down a satellite"
"No, Of course they wouldn't. What makes you think our missiles might miss and hit the wrong target?"
"Whaddya mean, ask the Brit Army?"
And of course the Atlantic is narrower and busier...
or has the acronym been updated?
the 'taped-off' area seems relatively unused, has a v low permanent population and is mostly west of track from areas of oggin that are easily accessible by USN surface craft; should be a really good test of SM-3 capability
(for once): good luck Yanquees
So they're doing all this about ten minutes, orbital time, from my house? Won't even have time to duck and I'm having enough trouble sleeping as it is.... Friendly fire and civilians don't mix. Welcome to British Columbia, the Middle East of the Pacific.
Here's hoping the mods to the missiles retain the self destruct feature, small payload or not.
AC as I live way too close to the border and the US flies over lots.
Mine's the one with the Kevlar liner and the round hat.
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