"....crying into their beers"
Surely that should have been "their beards"?
Ubuntu fanboys have been crying into their beers after discovering internet connection problems with Canonical's latest open source Linux distribution operating system, dubbed the Gutsy Gibbon. The latest version (7.10) of the increasingly popular free OS, which launched last week, was punted to the masses by Ubuntu as being …
It's never a good idea to be the first to download any new OS. Expert users can always fix their own problems, but really, normal users should wait a week before migrating. At least, that gives time for critical issues to surface, and the release notes to be fixed. [To be fair to Ubuntu, if this were Microsoft, I'd be advising 18 months!]
I am an unashamed Ubuntu user and have to admit that my eager pounce on 7.10 may qualify me as a fanboy, but I have to say, this post on the forum goes very nicely with the signature...
I get this error 2
Anything Windows can do.....Linux can do better
Guess I'll hang onto Feisty a little longer then. :)
If you have an IPv6 stack active on Linux without IPv6 connectivity, you may well run into problems.
This is because if you resolve the name of some DNS servers you get both IPv6 and IPv4 addresses:
ns1.ja.net. 127654 IN A 220.127.116.11
ns1.ja.net. 86375 IN AAAA 2001:630:0:44::e2
...and if you have both an IPv6 and an IPv4 stack, guess which one is used in preference? Even if you don't get a DHCP'd IPv6 address, you'll still have a "link-local" one. So you end up not getting a reply from that nameserver, until you either end up talking with one which does not have an IPv6 address too, or your OS falls back to using the IPv4 address.
The solution is not to enable the IPv6 unless you actually have IPv6 connectivity. This is a config issue IMHO...
You've 1) configured your PC to use DHCP to discover network resources, then 2) misconfigured your DSL router to report it's own internal IP address as a valid DNS server, and now 3) you're reporting Gutsy's correct use of the discovered DNS server as 'a major flaw in Linux's handling of DNS' ?
I am guessing that if this had been another windows horror story there would have been hundreds of comments saying I told you so, get Ubuntu it’s the dogs gonads.
I have just upgraded my PC (processor, memory, hard disk, motherboard, memory, you know, just a minor tweak!) in order to run Vista, I know, I know just another mindless drone but I put the disk in, told it what country I was in and then had a couple of beers, came back and everything just worked (Then I spent a lot of time installing my anti-spam, firewall, anti-virus etc etc and downloading masses of updates).
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not an M$ Fanboi, just a lazy, lazy man.
All the bits I've got left over are going into another case so I can have a good look at Ubuntu, should be far more challenging than my window$ PC :-)
ie, Ubuntu insisting on preferring IPv6 even though it's used virtually nowhere in the real world. I complained about it then and got no sense from them. The pedants have taken over at Canonical; it's time to find the next pragmatic distro, run (for the moment) by people who understand that having things actually work is more important than having them idealogically sound...
Oh come on.
IF you're going to throw mud at the latest Ubuntu, can you at least find mud that will affect more than a few hundred ubergeeks worldwide? (How many UK ISPs support IPv6, for example? Less than a handful, I think you'll find).
IPv6 has been the "next big thing" now for over a decade. In that time the world of OSI networks (intended to solve some of the same problems, eg autoconfiguration and huge address space) has been and gone. Really, there's no need for anyone to panic yet because Ubuntu's IPv6 is less than perfect, doubtless there are other Linuxes whose IPv6 does work (see, that's the nice thing about Linux, so many to choose from, many slightly different, some very different).
The blog entry will tell you half of what you might need to know to get firefox going, but this is making microadjustments to the stable door, as all the stuff which should have been installed from the internet when you installed the OS didn't happen, and other things like Pidgin remain broken. If you do hit this problem, you really need to go and do a clean install somewhere where you can get a working network connection during the installation. If you're lucky and do the mods before going home, it may work.
I hit the same problems in dapper and edgy, feisty worked, and now the same symptoms are back. I don't have access to a "working" network to do a good install, so gutsy is a non-starter for me. Even if I did, it would give me no confidence to try and connect to someone else's network, so Ubuntu Gutsy is a non-starter for me and my laptop, which is a pity. Worse than that, I could not recommend it to anyone who wanted to try linux.
This issue hardly got any exposure in previous releases, so I can only hope that it gets enough this time around to get sorted properly by the next release. Meanwhile, feisty works for everything except the built in wireless (in the kernel from 2.6.23) and what I have seen of Gutsy looked very nice. My laptop middleman (you can't call them a manufacturer - its an OEM job via Medion) can't be bothered to do the right thing and make a working web complaint form, and I'm not paying and wasting my time on their phone support, so I can't even push them for an XP licence until MS make the Vista home bastard it came with work properly (the wireless driver just got updated to allow you the full horror of trying to copy files using Vista).
Yeah, that's bad...
On the other hand, I switched from OpenSuSE 10.2 to Kubuntu 7.10 on my old 1.2 GHz, 1 Gb RAM computer (with cable Internet) and had no problem myself. It is much faster now, I even experimented with running Windows 2000 inside VirtualBox and it performs perfectly. And I had no trouble with anything in my hardware. I wonder what is the problem with the other machines, maybe newer ones are not as well supported...
The upgrade install hung on my Fiesty laptop (HP dv4000) very late in the process, forcing me to do a clean install. I was very disappointed, because it took so damn long, most of which time was spent downloading packages. I was expecting that the upgrade install could either run from the CD or fetch some needed packages from the CD, but I didn't see any obvious way to do that.
Gutsy itself has not given me any of the connectivity problems reported in this article. Video support for my crappy i810 card is better, but I still can't figure out how to use the new "Screens and Graphics" and "Screen Resolution" widgets to do the one thing I still really need to be able to do, which is switching to and from the external monitor w/o a reboot.
So far Gutsy seems slower than Fiesty. The indexing feature doesn't help at all, and I have it dialed down as far as it will go. If it persists in slowing me down I'll disable it entirely and see if that doesn't do the trick.
Having switched from Mac OS, which I got fed up with because of its poor performance, I can say that I really miss how easy it is to do upgrade installs on that platform. But I have zero sentimental attachment to the spinning beach ball of death.
Ubuntu or any other OS will never jump over its "small genetic pool" threshold and all associated with it problems until they completely change the strategy. It's like in sport, nobody cares about the second. The top management has to go not on their conferences of geeks and supporters for next 6 months but instead (ready?) go to schools and even homes for retired and listen what 10-graders and elders will tell them how the top layer of GUI must be implemented. On this front layer, which is most difficult to master (and you think it's simple?), it does not have to exhibit a single bump or logical glitch and has to be completely transparent. Almost like on smartphone interface. Upgrades must be one click only, the file structure, on the surface, of minimal abstraction etc. All the nuts and bolts, like in a car, must be hidden under the hood where more complex layers of OS have to be for pro, geeks, and the rest.
With that in mind only Ubuntu will become "Jesus OS" smashing all others with its adoption to cosmic heights. Or continue stay in 0.5% adoption rate misery This is what is shuttleworthit thinking of. Or others will eventually come and do that, "the saint place is never empty"(c).
I admit the title of the post is inflammatory, but "...not so Gutsy" come on. I installed the pre-release of Gutsy on an HP desktop and everything worked just fine. I had Fiesty and found Gutsy faster. I don't appear to be in the minority, so I suggest you test the system before you write about it. By the way I am a fanboy of Ubuntu and love windows XP. There I gave you all the ammo that you need for the personal attacks. All I will say in response is Get your facts right or work at a tabloid.
Have run Kubuntu and Xubuntu 7.10 on a zonbox with nary a connection problem at all, and I'm an "intermediate" level user - I can follow a fair bit of what the ubergeeks say, but aren't brave enough to try much of it unless I REALLy have to. And thus far - I haven't had to, I've been firmly in "user-mode" with Ubuntu 7.10.
I DID encounter a problem with sound not working a few weeks ago, but that was fixed in one of the more recent release candidates.
Umbongo? Hahahaha! These funny sounding African words, eh! Gosh, they're all the same.
A little pathetic.
Anyway, now that Orlowski seems bored with poking Wikipedia with a stick, rubbish articles about minor issues in Ubuntu seem the order of the day. Iconoclasm is fine, Reg, but do it with a scintilla of style, or you just look like a boring Uncle in the corner who goes on about "them lot" and farts for attention.
Seriously, the article talks about "one" person...
Of the issues new users are dealing with, the network stuff really isn't standing out as causing problems, in fact, it seems network issues are in the minority by a long shot...
http://ubuntuforums.org and check yourselves rather than read this no-news.
Powered mine up the other day - told me there was a new version available. Downloaded just over 700MB of files and it worked perfectly - this is on an old Toshiba SA30-203. No DNS issues, no connectivity issues at all... but then again I've not got IPv6 enabled and why the hell would I?
BTW : your link to the Ubutnu Forums comes back with "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."
Feisty was fine for me, but gutsy was doing acpi hangs within seconds of boot. (Finally tracked to processor.ko)
I reported the bug on launchpad 4 weeks before launch but could not get anyone at canonical to even notice it.
It's been noticed now.
Still, I get what I pay for and it's a bargain at that - no automatic lockout if I change hardware, no software audits or severe penalties (lose the house and gaoltime).
I also get the chance to help debug in a "meaningful" way.
I'd like to pay for support
There will be minor hiccups with bleeding edge software! I still have problems with the newest Linux kernel in itself. Using the latest kernel means that by default the hard drive that I boot from isn't referenced by /dev/hda2, its referenced by some UUID number which looks worse than an IPV6 address.
But, the point is that, there are new features and new features present bugs. Granted I've had issues with mounting my home directory on a separate partition during the Gutsy install and VNC seemed to not accept passwords, but I worked around that, cause hey... its new software.
If I wanted things to work right out of the box, I would have bought a calculator! No OS software works without hiccups.
Umbongo? Hahahaha! These funny sounding African words, eh! Gosh, they're all the same.
A little pathetic.
No actually it is (or was a little drink).
Way down deep in the middle of the Congo, A hippo took an apricot, a guava and a mango. He stuck it with the others and he danced a dainty tango. The rhino said, "I know... we'll call it Um Bongo!" Um Bongo, Um Bongo, they drink it in the Congo! The python picked the passion-fruit, The marmoset the mandarine, the parrot painted packets that the whole caboodle landed in. So when it comes to sun and fun and goodness in the jungle, they all prefer the sunny, funny one they call Um Bongo!
don't change OS's if you don't have a crying need not if it works basically you get the best fit of hardware to kernel and freeze it there if you get a new computer you go back and get the latest otherwise your wasting time and going to have all kinds of problems. Stop playing with your OS and get to work.
Upgraded from Feisty to Gutsy a couple of days ago using apt-get without any problems whatsoever. The only change I made was to ditch ndiswrapper and use the built-in bcm43xx support in the kernel, which was a conscious decision. Everything is as it was - makes me wonder why I bothered really...
Well, I kind of like the negative tone. Must go with my unfortunately negative personality--but it makes it hard to tell when they actually have some grounds for complaint.
Anyway, I haven't had any problems with a couple of Gutsy 7.10 upgrades, and haven't noticed any performance problems. There was one minor network-related glitch on one Sharp notebook, and the glitch wasn't cured by Gutsy, though it is slightly less glitchy now. I might do another machine today if my other work is low enough.
xp became unworkable (again) on one of my boxes . an ancient asrock board. compared to an sp2 install on xp it was a dream, faster, and less intervention, and no demand for driver disks after install i have had no trouble with net access. Frankly my HP 1220 all in one is more of a pain in the arse to install.
Use bleeding edge, get cut. Any new release is bound to have issues. At least the Ubuntu crowd will probably have these things fixed in a week or two, unlike some other operating systems I could name where it takes then 2 months just to admit there's a problem.
I'm still on Dapper for my test stations. It works. I don't need it to do more than what it does. So I'm not changing. People who change for the sake of change really shouldn't be listened to when they whine about it.
I upgraded from Feisty to Gutsy online, I had a few problems with errors on installation, but it seemed to fix itself by doing an update. I used it for a few hours. Then I made the mistake of rebooting; suddenly no network. (though wireless came up and connected)
I looked in the network admin tools and saw no IPV4 address. At this point I went into terminal command line and did an ifconfig to look for more clues. That just confirmed there was no IPV4 address allocated, but the network was "up"
I then set the IPV4 address manually and bingo! I was on the network again.
Problem worked around in ten minutes. I thought it was my BT Home Hub DHCP playing up again - but that's another thread.
Now, let me tell you about my ongoing problems with Vista and the USB disk drive that is no longer recognised and the constant Bluetooth errors and ...
It's not just Ubuntu. Debian (on which Ubutu is based) seems to have trouble as well. And after much head-scratching, I found it's mostly related to IPv6 (which, along with nuclear fusion and the GNU HURD, is future tech and always will be).
Blacklisting the "ipv6" module, or (if you're well 'ard) recompiling the kernel without IPv6 support, makes it behave perfectly.
Also, the newest Apache is *very* fussy about its configuration file syntax. A slight error in httpd.conf or any included file, or an absent or misbehaving internet connection, can slow the system bootup process to a crawl. If you've specified your virtual hosts by hostname (something like <VirtualHost something.mydomain.co.uk:80>), Apache insists to perform a DNS lookup -- or wait for it to time out -- on every one of those hostnames before starting up.
I guess I ought to patch the initscript and have it ping the nameservers and make sure they are available *before* starting the daemon, *before* my next forced reboot .....
I'm a little tired of the infantile "umbongo" play on words too.
What a poor piece of journalism, reminds me of when I used to read treeware.
Fair enough if there is a problem with Ubuntu, point it out, but the problem is actually with routers that don't handle IPv6 properly.
Mind you reporters are mostly more interested in the "story" than the "facts".
..was overwhelmingly good. I had Fiesty 7.04 installed, with a fair number of custom tweaks (most of which were broken because I'm an idiot), did the upgrade from the package manager.. kept working while it was upgrading, rebooted and voom, pretty much everything works perfectly. I still have one minor annoyance that has resulted from my own configurations in fiesty, but everything else works perfectly.
In fact, I discovered I needed to print something off my printer, which happens to be plugged in to my wifes windows PC. I never got around to installing it under windows on my computer because it would have taken my 15-20 minutes, and it was faster to go three steps to her computer and print.. but I had read that 7.10 had better printer support. I clicked the printers button-> add new printer-> It scanned for about 15 seconds (during which I thought "Yeah, right like it will find it"), it found it, discovered the that it was an hp 5850, set up the driver, and within 30 seconds and three mouse clicks I had installed a working printer and printed a test page. -Never- has it been that easy in windows. Never. Even if it was as simple as pop the disk in, it would take half an hour for a modern HP printer to install.
It was also present in Dapper. Basically, if I wanted to connect to the internet, I'd have to reverse the nameserver addresses in my /etc/resolv.conf file for some reason. So any time I started up...
sudo vi /etc/resolv.conf
I ought to write a program to do it for me, but I hope Gutsy will resolve this issue (as the problem was non-existent on Edgy and Feisty).
On the plus side, my wireless card finally works in Gutsy.
I must admit that I've always kind of backed Linux distributions even when they were just dos-based OS for the Tech-savvy....well now Ubuntu has just swept me off my feet.
I installed Gutsy Gibbon through the internet using the integrated updates manager, at the time I had Feisty Fawn installed. It definitely took its time to download all the necessary bits and pieces but once they were downloaded the installation worked like clockwork.
Also once I rebooted the PC..well everything worked just fine, my machine picked up it's DHCP allocated IP address over the network...and I was back in business. Open Office was upgraded to Ver2.3, GAIM messaging was replaced by another multi-IM client called Pigeon (or something like that) which was also relatively easy to set up.
Also of interest my PC resides within a small network running M$ servers and My Ubuntu install granted me seamless access to my designated areas on the various servers. Installing network printers was equally seamless.
I was also pleasantly surprised with the new graphical features provided with 7.10, while not a must it is always truly enjoyable to have an operating system that can pull a couple of visual tricks...without leeching your wallet.
Also if the Ubuntu people find anything worth updating I am sure they'll just send us the patch and so long as I'm connected to the Internet ...I know it will be easy to obtain it without having to wait too long either!
Both my laptop and desktop booted into a black screen after upgrading to 7.10, requiring me to boot in rescue mode and do the proprietary video driver routine. I used framebuffer consoles on both and both ended up with no console at all. the ATI system insisted on running on XGL, which crashed on the restricted-modules provided driver. Of course I could only start to diagnose this after I fixed the console. They run fairly well after this hurdle, but I get a constant 3% cpu use from KDED (for god's sake, is it folding proteins or what?), are occasionally left with a zombie nspluginviewer eating cpu, and I'm occasionally experiencing the slow network problem as well.
20 hours from bug report to fix release.
"IPv6 link-local interface lookup fix regressed from Feisty to Gutsy"
glibc (2.6.1-6ubuntu2) hardy; urgency=low
* Reapply any/local-ipv6-sanity.diff, lost when merging 2.6.
I just installed gutsy on my amd 1600 system the only problem I had (probably due to my own error of not connecting the network cable until it was already setting up the network). Was the adept installer did not work. This was easily fixed using apt-get in the terminal. After that I did a reboot and everything was fine .
> 20 hours from bug report to fix release
Yeah right. And probably 6 months before I will touch Ubuntu again. Thats if they don't bugger this up again in the next release. There is no fix if you have a system which can't see the repositories where the fix resides because some eejit forgot to include a patch which makes DNS lookup work in a sane manner, and I bet they don't update the release CD until April. I'll not hold my breath because the fix is described as "urgency=low".
Also, the word release is usually used to refer to something which happens after testing.
It worked better for me than Feisty (7.04) or Mandriva One 2008.
It's the first OS that liked my Gateway MX6453(AMD Turion x2, 2gb, 150gb, 128mb Mobility Radeon XPress 200m series) laptop
I think Ubuntu is THE OS. It makes XP/Vista look like it should: Bad.
I'm thinking on buying stocks in Canonical.
I do understand the frustration of drivers and whatnot, but please don't give up so soon. Open-source is known for quick fixes, and a helpful community.
Don't expect it to be perfect, though. Nothing but the Trinity is.
On my Inspiron2200 all was great. No problems, everything worked, some things work better...all i noticed was the new (little) features available, such as the new graphs in the power history, or the new (restricted) software modem drivers.
My desktop however, was a bitterly different story.
NVIDIA drivers worked fine, but I had to remove all my compiz configs/files under my home folder, restart with a blank profile, then that worked OK.
wpasupplicant is all screwed...won't even load the device. Says driver installed, hardware present, lspci shows my card (wmp11), but I can't even get the OS to recognize it as a network device. Doesn't even attempt to bring it up at boot, or show it as an available network device...
Many of my personal settings got messed up too. For example, upon loading gnome, I discovered my menus had no icons. Went to set the preference, and saw it was already set to use icons. Had to turn it off, then turn it back on. All kinda little things like that got me screwed up.
Going try a fresh install, but it's hard to believe that hardware differences could cause the little settings issues I had. Other than hardware (and associted software),the only difference was what software was running during the upgrade.
I'm sick and tired of all the Ubuntu hypocrites.
If MS had all the problems that Ubuntu has, the Linux users would be screaming outrage. Connection problems, sound problems, video driver problems.... It doesn't matter if it only takes a "easy fix" to correct the problems, people expect things to work out of the box. And how do you discover the "easy fix" for all these Ubuntu problems?
Sorry, I'll stick with Microsoft.
"A computer is a network device 1st, 2nd, and 3rd" 80s Atari quote.
I upgraded i386 Feisty with 1853 packages including lots of development libraries over a 256K DSL link. It took 12 hours total here in Oz and works fine on my buggy nForce 4 AMD 64 platform. Most other distros lock the screen unless I use the vesa video driver, whereas Ubuntu with the restricted nVidia video driver is great.
My dmesg says "eth0 No Ipv6 routers installed", so I expect I got a fix.
I've used many different distros from LFS, Gentoo, Slackware, Debian, Red Hat, Mandriva, etc, etc. I think I've probably tried them all. Now, I'm using Ubuntu, because it is easy enough for my wife and friends to use and powerful enough for me to use. I updated from Feisty to the Gutsy RC, and then got the final updates on the official release date, and I've had no problems on my HP Pavillion laptop. I have two friends in my home town that I have set up with Ubuntu and they both updated without a hitch. It sounds to me like this problem with the network connection is only pertaining to just a few users. Probably users who have the same network card, or wireless card. I am a regular in the forums and on the IRC channel and have heard no one complain about not having internet access. About all these people screaming that M$ doesn't have these kind of problems.... well what was SP1 and SP2 all about?? The only time I really have to do any updates to ANY linux distros is when some of the software that I have installed has a new version or some sort of small patch, and I can continue working while those apps are updating without being bogged down by the update manager like in Windows. Also, after the update is complete I don't have to save all my work and then reboot like you do in Windows, 99% of the time a linux update requires no reboot, and work can continue without a hitch. I am a linux fanboy, but also have to use M$ for my Visual Basic classes, so I have first hand experience with both operating systems and I know that Linux has HUGE advantages over M$.
I have read that some people are having installations issues with the latest version of ubuntu. I personally have installed the operating system on three systems for home use and everyone just loves it. Especially the 3-D desktop, Compiz Fusion. I have been using ubuntu since version 6 and I have seen serious improvements in usability, features and new software releases included in each release. It sounds to me like we have a bunch of microsoft centric complainers that are content on spreading alot of fud. Anyone who reads this article should not take this article to seriously. Much of what has been said is untrue or overblown. The latest release of ubuntu in my opinion installs easier then vista and it's ease of use is quite good. I have used blista and I can honestly say that a multi-billion dollar company that releases a broken OS like blista should be chastized for it. They deserve what is coming to them and if they can't take the heat then get out of the fire. Gutsy is the best version yet and if you want to take a leap of faith and try it out you will not be disappointed.
Anonymous Coward said that ubuntu was complicate.
The installation of ubuntu need no skills, and everything works like a charm without any help, and Compiz Fusion is beautiful :)
What? Windows? Need to install additionnal drivers? Takes 2 hours to find them? Must choose the folder which contain extracted drivers? Must install programs for common tasks and find them with IE? Need a antivirus? Sometime needs defrag? Don't get to know why it was so fast a few minutes ago and now so slow..?
How can we say that Windows is easy anymore ^_^ Ubuntu Gutsy is soooo simple!! Everything I need is in one all-working OS and thousands of programs are disponible for me through the repositories, no need to find them on the web, just tell ubuntu what I need and enjoy a computer without limits and maintenance. Paradise..
Well, the first thing I had to do was disable IPV6.
Then get the restricted ATI drivers for my card.
After that, CompizFusion started up and gave me all the eye candy.
I must say though, this is the easiest distro I have found yet. I have only really played around with linux, but I was so impressed with Ubuntu I am now running it at home instead of XP and even the wife likes it!
First install was on a Dell Inspiron 1150 with an oddball wireless card. Once the WPA settings were in, the wireless has worked fine. Not even the slightest issue..
Plugged in my Epson printer/scanner, turned it on, sat down and.. Already there and ready to use. XP and Vista take longer to find it - and they have the drivers for it installed already!
I've since shoved 7.1 on a range of crappy old hardware that I can't even give away, no issues. Newer machines, no issues. Well, mostly.. One machine does have issues with returning from suspend.. But that always has, even under windoze.
Must dash.. Got more installs to do on other peoples machines.
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