back to article Battle of the stats: Blu-ray beats HD DVD

Another month, another consumer electronics show, and once again the backers of the rival HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats come to attempt to persuade us their favoured format is winning the war. The IFA show in Berlin last week was no exception - so how is battle faring now? The BD boys were up first, pointing to their format …

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  1. Tim Lake

    HD DVD has it all to do

    I am a PS3 owner so I have started to pick up the odd blu-ray release. If I didn't have the PS3, or if it didn't have a blu-ray drive, I wouln't be looking to upgrade to an HD player of any kind for a year or so at least. I think the vast majority of households are happy with DVD for the time being and very few people are actually seeking to upgrade. Most PS3 owners are, like me, likely to start looking to buy movies on blu-ray since they already have a player and might as well use it. HD-DVD has to start at step one, convince people to upgrade, THEN convince them to buy an HD-DVD player

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Edit...

    "The BD supporters also pointed to Sony's claim to have shipped 1.3m PS3s in Europe during 2007. Since the vast majority of those are PS3s, that previously mentioned 94 per cent is a little over 1.3m units."

    This sentence may need a review...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So $150 million for 2 million sales?

    So let me get this straight, Microsoft apparently paid $150 million for to Paramount to drop BluRay and only support HD DVD, and these HD discs are selling only a couple of million in the US a year?

    Even if we say 5 million discs it's still $30 a disc in subsidy!!! WTF!

    http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=17032

    Wow, now that's desparation!

    And as for this: "That may change: the arrival of a cut-price HD DVD player in Europe, and ".

    So a small unfamiliar importer of HDDVD players is able to undercut all other HD DVD manufacturers on price, even the really huge makers with their own automated production lines? Gee, I wonder how they are able to do that? You don't suppose Microsoft has been swishing money around there too.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    WTF?

    ".........Sony's claim to have shipped 1.3m PS3s in Europe during 2007. Since the vast majority of those are PS3s........"

    Is it just me, or does that say that most PS3s are PS3s? Surely *all* PS3s are PS3s?

    Maybe Sony were claiming to have shipped 1.3m BD players?

    TeeCee

  5. James Pickett

    Meaningless

    "75% of European studios releasing on HD DVD's"

    So 25% of them aren't? And of the 75%, how many are supplying both? Studios can produce in whatever format they like - they'd go back to VHS if there was demand!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Eh?

    The BD supporters also pointed to Sony's claim to have shipped 1.3m PS3s in Europe during 2007. Since the vast majority of those are PS3s...

    Surely ALL of them are??

  7. Brian

    Where would we be without Homer?

    People can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent.

    Forty percent of all people know that.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    hd vs bd

    do the counts of disks per player include the free 5 disks for every hd player?

  9. Kevin Eastman

    Apples and Oranges

    "Sony's claim to have shipped 1.3m PS3s in Europe during 2007"

    As I am not a console gamer, I may be missing something here, but is the PS3 not a gaming console? Excuse me if I am wrong, but from what I know about gaming consoles, don't must people buy them to .. oh I don't know, PLAY GAMES maybe, not to watch movies. So the fact that they support Blue Ray is a meaningless statistic as most gamers could care less. My computers DVD drive, which I have had for quite a while, accepts HD-DVD. A fact I was not aware of until recently, which shows how important it is to me. I have yet to watch one on it though. I will occasionally play a regular DVD in the computer. The biggest reason I got a DVD drive for my computer was so I could play games that were coming out on DVD.

  10. Martin Usher

    HD-DVD's Stealth Package

    In the US at least we're starting to see a releases which are made as HD-DVD on one side of the disk and standard DVD on the other. This is the tool that should give HD-DVD the edge over Blu-Ray -- its not the $500 player and the $50 disk that's going to decide who gets the market but the first manufacturer to get their HD disks into everyones' homes at about the same price as they've paying currently.

  11. Aubry Thonon

    Am I missing something...?

    "The BD supporters also pointed to Sony's claim to have shipped 1.3m PS3s in Europe during 2007. Since the vast majority of those are PS3s..."

    If I shipped 1.3m PS3s, I would certainly hope the majority of them were PS3s.

  12. foxyshadis

    Price Economics

    "So a small unfamiliar importer of HDDVD players is able to undercut all other HD DVD manufacturers on price, even the really huge makers with their own automated production lines? Gee, I wonder how they are able to do that? You don't suppose Microsoft has been swishing money around there too."

    Same way they did for tape players, dvd players, and so on: Southeast asian sweatshop labor.

    Big companies pay enormous amounts of money to develop technology and typically have higher salaries and more skilled labor in factories of first-gen products. After the first wave, they license the now-debugged technology to companies who don't have to recoup those cost and can pay people pennies.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    PS3s and their games should not count!

    A sony PS3 with a built-in blueray player should not count as Player units sold. Sony also counts the PS3 game disks as media sold.

    Sony just needs to accept that they have been beaten yet again! What's betamax??? Hey sony let me help you out, stop being so greedy and maybe you'll win the next format battle.

  14. David Hicklin

    I don't care who claims to be winning...

    ..as I won't be touching the HD format until there is only ONE format out there as I have no intention of being left with a 'betamax' in the living room.

    I wonder how much longer it will take the two camps to realise that having two competing formats is going to hurt sales. Problem is they are in trench warfare right now.

  15. Scott Mckenzie

    PS3

    Why it counts i'll never know... the last stats i saw something like 70% of PS3 owners worldwide didn't know their PS3 could play Blu Ray disks, and something like 50% didn't know what Blu Ray was!

    Even accounting for the PS3 as a sale hardware may be approx 10:1 in favour of BR, but disc sales are only 2:1 and that is decreasing rapicly...

    HD DVD has a standard ,it has web content, interactivity, an easy to design for GUI, it's also not wholly owned by Sony with an incredibly high publishing content... those are also incidentally the reasons Paramount left BR, and nothing to do with a Blog generated load of tosh about MS paying $150 Million...

    I think BR has it all to do to convince people their format is better, and given the cost differences, the fact you can dual sided discs with HD one side, DVD the other etc I personally think HD DVD will eventually win!

  16. ZooKeeper

    Hogging Technology surely not the way to go.

    I think we can thank our lucky stars that Sony did not win the betamax / VHS war, since things might've looked very different today.

    Sony has time and time again proved that they intend to approach any market they enter extremely aggresively. Although we cannot deny Sony's right to do so, I'm surely not going to buy any electronics product that only supports media/hardware manufactured and sold by the same manufacturer ONLY. Sony do manufacture excellent products, but I surely don't like their marketing approach: Conquer all without mercy and force consumers to conform to what we sell.

    I mean let's look at this logically. You buy a Sony Digital Camera. You want more storage space to be able to take more photos. You HAVE TO buy a Sony memory stick...sorry, Sony says, no support for SD Cards, just SONY memory sticks.

    The obvious conclusion. Sony determines the price of the media be it memory sticks or blue ray discs, and if you go have a look ALL Sony media is comparatively MUCH more expensive than it's counterparts eg Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD etc.

    No, I'd rather stick with devices that support HD DVD and SD Cards since I believe this will benefit us as consumers, financially and from a technological viewpoint. The more manufacturers to complete research and push technologies, the better I say.

    Support Sony at your own peril, or if you have boatloads of cash. I surely don't do the former or have the latter.

  17. Chris Cheale

    it's all in the name

    BD may be the better format, but so was Betamax... and that was Sony too.

    However, world+dog know what a DVD is, everyone is now familiar with HD since there's the HD-Ready stickers on new TVs. Logically an HD-Ready telly will work with an HD-DVD player. BD may be a better name, with better tech (funky blue lasers ftw) and be a better quality format but basically, it doesn't say "BD-Ready" on the stickers, the mental association isn't so readily there.

  18. Adam

    Yes. that must be it.. no one bought a PS/2 to play DVD's either

    I am all for the better format winning out. Heck, I could care less if its Sony, et al... or Microsoft et al. That leads their forces of HD Glory to the win.

    But the nonsense about not counting PS3's as BD players is pretty stupid. AS if one would say the same for Xbox 360's w/ HD DVD add on.

    Not only is the PS3 a BD player, but in many reviews it is cited as one of the best commercially available BD players. So should it be counted towards installed base of said players? Damn straight.

    With the PS/2 Sony combined the now uber famous, and universally accepted DVD player with a game console. How many are willing to argue that this did nothing to help both PS/2 sales, and the advancement of the DVD format?

    Christmas time has come and gone many times since the initial release of PS/2, and for those of us without "boatloads of money"; we could aquire a game console, and a dvd player... for less then the cost of both separately.

    With the PS/3, yet again we can choose to purchase a game system, and a multi-format media player for less then the cost of both. In one sleek package.

    I personally do not, and probably never will own a PS/3... Thats mainly because I am a PC personality through and through. Of my friends that have a PS/3, one of the largest 'turn-ons' tends to be the quality of the device, and the quality of the Blue Ray video... No RROD, or equivalent issue adds lines to their collective brow.

    Furthermore, for the one that posted about how Sony products require Sony formats... Could not we reverse this 'criticism', and complain that non-sony products don't use Sony media? I mean, the memory sticks I recently purchased for my GF's PSP aren't far and away more expensive then SD. Additionally, go out and purchase some of the higher-end memory cards for higher end devices. Memory stick is not the most expensive on the landscape, but it does allow sufficient data transfer rates to meet the specs of the player / game device in question. Also, the MS's I purchased weren't Sony... they were Lexar. Does that make Lexar SD cards evil too?

    We could extend this some complaint to Apple, and the plethora of their media products if we really wanted to write about exclusivity, and being left with a beta max in the living room. How about a certain bunch of non OS X capable multiple thousand dollar macs? that really must have hurt getting dumped into obscurity by the very company you supported.

    BD and HD-DVD will both more then likely co-exist for a while. Manufacturing costs for both will come down, and both coalitions of the stubborn will hurt for the lack of agreement on one format.

    But to sit and beat on Sony for being aggressive in bringing to market an innovation, and then utilizing its expertise in associated products to enhance the experience is kind of silly. We are after all seemingly in agreement that their products are of high quality, and usually better then the competing (in VHS case winning) format. When did that become a negative?

    To say most consumers aren't aware their PS/3 can play blue ray content is silly at best, and condescending and disingenuous at worst. Not because I believe any major segment of the population that consumes these devices is tech savvy, more so because the marketing engine behind these sorts of devices don't quite let you forget it.

    Count the PS3's and watch as that installed base lets parents decide to upgrade both the home theater, and grant their kidlings one more Christmas wish at the same time.

  19. Anthony Poh

    China adopts HD-DVD equivalent

    Check out this article I've just read:

    http://n4g.com/industrynews/NewsCom-66305.aspx

    Seems that China have come up with their own format called CH-DVD which builds on the fundamentals of HD-DVD......

    So with the country with the worlds largest population adopting a HD-DVD format, will this shift the High-Definition war away from Sony?!?

    Surely a country that can mass-produce HD-DVDs and their players for cheap will mean that they can flood the market with their wares?!?

    Interesting article (check alternate sources too).

    Although I've read stuff on N4G before, I'd rather wait till a site like The Reg picks up on it and gives their opinion!

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