UK importing Army spy-drones to replace losses

Dear Gov - please waste MUCH more of my cash...

Is there anything in the Military space which can be built cost effectively in the UK? If the Apache really cost 3x the US models then this is a disgrace. As usual a case of jobs for the boys!

I've decided that my new business is going to have to develop a military product based on something already available overseas. Should pay for the swimming pool and country mansion...

How much..?

You have to wonder how they cost these things. Drones might have some smart avionics, but mechanically they are dead basic, and you can buy a very smart single-engined Cessna or Piper (with auto-pilot and computer navaids) for under £200k. What's the other £7.8m for?

Multinational corporations / genocide of the starving nations

"This pressing need isn't at all surprising, with the UK MoD revealing last month that it has lost or wrecked more than 70 drones in Iraq alone just since 2003."

One day there will be a museum to these fallen warriors, who were made from metal to die on our behalf. Hopefully these drones will be near the front, so that we can put them into historical context.

Re: How much..?

The other £7.8m is for lining the pockets of everybody involved, IMNSHO.

I mean, come on. This country used to be great for it's engineering skills, what happened?

Oh, right...

the greedy unions, the corrupt governments selling them out, outsourcing, school not teaching proper skills (instead, concentrating on this 'committee' and 'teamwork' BS.)

Why built brilliant equipment when you can buy a piece of equipment from the yanks, at five times the original price.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM! Start by firing all those damned management staff, and hiring people who have a clue.

My tuppence, for your perusal. If I have offended anyone, stop being a soft pillock, and grow up.

Cash wasting

It's incredible how much money the government wastes, they bought our software for £4000 in a local authority, to implement it cost them around£245,000. The cause I feel is meeting after meeting after meeting all in the hope that the blame of any project failure can not be pinned down to one person.

But to be honest this technology rocks, I wish I had one and the cost isn't much in the scale of things, if it saves lives it's worth it.

Public money

James Penketh - I agree, your hired ;-)

"The cause I feel is meeting after meeting after meeting all in the hope that the blame of any project failure can not be pinned down to one person." - Got it in one, meetings about meetings, so that people can manoeuvre themselves into a position where they can claim some of the glory or pass the buck, which ever looks like the better prospect.

My last IT project using public tax payers money ended up being slightly under budget and delivered 3 days before deadline. It's still working and since I have made modifications and I'm still rolling out functionality. I have no formal project management training or qualifications but I have been got a degree in common sense and tend to read and listen when embarking on projects. Is there anyone in government that can say the same?..... I'm waiting

It seems sensible, actually...

OK, so 3 times as much is maybe too much, but in principle I'd rather we spent more to keep at least some technological expertise in the UK. Part of our strategic planning has to be based on the possibility that maybe our traditional allies (e.g. US, Israel) cease to be allies.

If we buy everything from overseas with no capability to manufacture locally, we're pretty badly fscked in the event those people don't want to sell to us any more. I'd pay extra for the insurance. (The fact that someone like Thales is overseas owned is irrelevant - in the event we required it compulsorary purchase/nationalisation of the UK facilities would be trivial; building the capability up from scratch less so.)

Title

Total cost of watchkeeper is not just the birds. It's also assorted

sensors (expensive), ground control stations and probably 10 yrs of

spares and at least some contractor support, plus bits and pieces such

as initial training. Then there's mods, takeoff and landing on

something other than concrete or tarmac, changes to the flight control

s/w for different payloads, not to mention probably getting it safety

certified to UK standards (to enable flight outside military airspace in

UK), maybe even re-writing s/w to safety critical standards (the

precious citizenry of UK might get a tad agitated about 'unmanned war

machines' hitting their roofs). Then there's standardisation, NATO

seems to be getting excited about any nations' birds being controllable

and able to dump data to the ground stations of any nation, means

standardisation and new equipment that has to be integrated. It all

costs and has no shortage of engineering challenges. (particulary given

UK's totally woeful system engeering skills), a big contingency sounds

wise to me.

The reported loss of 70 birds in Iraq is probably not just Phoenix.

They've being buying mini-rpvs (ie hand held and launched by 2 bods +

bungy cord). No doubt some of these have become the worse for wear.

Phoenix has done a surprisingly good job considering it was designed

for NW Europe where there are no sandstorms and it doesn't get too hot.

They've also being flying them at ranges from their control stations

that were beyond what the book said was possible (perhaps the book was

sometimes right).