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back to article Galileo, here we go again. My my, the Brits are gonna miss EU

The House of Commons Select Committee for Science and Technology yesterday hauled UK government bigwigs in to explain themselves in light of the latest round of Galileo handbag-swinging. However, anyone hoping to see Minister for Defence Procurement Guto Bebb, Head of Cyber and Space Policy Nick Ayling, or UK Space Agency …

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        1. werdsmith Silver badge
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          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          "Fed up with the remain people using the politics to present an assessment of the EU behaviour."

          Nobody is using politics to do anything like that. The situation has arisen due to the choice of some.

          But the really mad thing here is that all of this stuff was easy, blindingly obviously predictable before the vote.

          How could anybody not see it?

          19 3 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            But the really mad thing here is that all of this stuff was easy, blindingly obviously predictable before the vote.

            Of course it was, no-one should have expected the EU to behave any differently to the way it is doing.

            But you don't gain freeedom without standing up to a bully and taking the odd beating.

            7 11 Reply
          2. David 164
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            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            Many people did and try to raise them during the campaig, I did, and why I'm patriotic, I couldn't vote leave for the simply reason the leave campaign had no answers to these questions and even if they did have the answers they weren't in a position to implement those answers because they weren't the government.

            3 0 Reply
        2. Spanners Silver badge
          Reply Icon
          Pirate

          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          It is as if 48% are the clever ones, and 52% are the stupid ones.

          We are not that stupid. Brexit was voted for by 37.5% of the electorate. The rest of us either voted "FFS No" or for that electoral favourite Apathy. Both signs of being cleverer than those who voted for national economic seppuku.

          28 11 Reply
        3. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          "Fed up with the remain people using the politics to present an assessment of the EU behaviour. It is as if 48% are the clever ones, and 52% are the stupid ones."

          well with every passing day, it becomes more obvious that the 52% are fucking idiots

          23 11 Reply
        4. Joel 1
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          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          "It is as if 48% are the clever ones, and 52% are the stupid ones."

          It is as if 34.74% chose one thing, 37.46% chose the other, and the remaining 27.80% were unconvinced by either side's argument.

          17 1 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            the remaining 27.80% were unconvinced by either side's argument

            So they went for "meh, do what the hell you want". And then people claim that the ones who voted (either way) are the fucking idiots?

            6 1 Reply
        5. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          > It is as if 48% are the clever ones, and 52% are the stupid ones.

          Hmm, let's see, shall we?

          From: https://extranewsfeed.com/50-dumb-fuck-reasons-for-leaving-the-eu-66a40c72c1da. Click the link for more:

          2. “Because of all the EU laws that we have no say in.”

          “Name one.”

          “There’s loads. Too many to list.”

          “Name one.”

          “…” (Caller to LBC radio station)

          5. “It [Sunderland] already is [a giant jobcentre]. That’s why I voted Leave, to put everyone else in the shit like us.” (Twitter)

          6. “To stick it to the toffs.”

          9. “Because the EU closed the coalmines.”

          11. “Because I had the hump.”

          12. “Because now our lads will get out of prison, ‘cos there will be jobs for them.”

          18. “Because I’ve lived here all my life and when I was growing up, that street over there was filled with shops.” (TV documentary)

          19. “To stop the Muslims immigrating here.” [Migration is unrestricted within the EU. But individual nations are responsible for setting their own limits on immigration from non-EU countries, such as those where the majority of citizens are Muslims. Leaving the EU will have no direct effect on the number of Muslims coming to the UK.]

          26. “To annoy my wife.”

          33. “Because there’s too many Pakistan [sic] people in Glasgow.” [I repeat: EU membership has no bearing on immigration from outside the EU.]

          35. “Because EU taxes are making our petrol more expensive than everywhere else in Europe.” [No, those would be taxes imposed by the UK’s government. The EU plays no part in setting national tax rates.]

          36. “To send them women in the headscarves back home. One of them stole my mother’s purse.”

          38. “Because I’m scared of black people. They’re so physical.” (Mother-in-law of member of Facebook group) [The mechanism by which leaving the EU will rid the UK of black people is unclear.]

          46. “Because they sold off the water, gas and electricity.” [Once again, that would be the work of the UK government, not the EU.]

          47. “Because I couldn’t decide, and my boyfriend voted Remain.”

          48. “Because schools are no longer allowed to hold nativity plays in case they offend Muslims.” [Utter crap.]

          50. “Because they never vote for us in Eurovision.”

          58. “Because there’s too much traffic in Sittingbourne.”

          63. “So all the fucking Chinks will leave.”

          64. “Because the ensuing recession is going to bring house prices down, and I can’t afford to buy a house.”

          8 3 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            The list is quite ironic, but also kind of painful. While some reasons given seem just made up for the sake of argument, and just about 100% are there to prove the point, i.e. brexiters are idiots (well, if not morons), this is a cheap shot. While a lot of people votes on those and very similar reasons, and yes, you could argue this makes them idiots, or "lazy buggers", the list is a manipulation, because the condensation of such quotes serves to underline the divisions and polarise the views (you're either with us, or against us, you're either a (smart) remainer or a (stupid) brexiteer.

            There are, after all, some valid reasons to vote FOR brexit (I voted to remain, by the way), one being that when people voted "in", they now realize that the current EU is no longer what they voted to be in. If I was an original in-voter in 1973, I would be VERY upset by the direction the EU is taking, and I would feel VERY resentful, that I voted for "x" and now the "x" has slowly, but surely been morphing into "y". Yeah, well, that's progress for you, but then, you don't like when your bank keeps changing your original terms and conditions to the supposedly better good. Yeah, sure, they keep sending you those letters with miniscule font about the 32667th change to the terms and you keep sending back your objections, which they ignore sending you the 32668th change, because not enough other customers object (because they can't be asked to read small print, because it doesn't bother them, because they agree with changes, whatever).

            Sadly, no genuine concerns were voiced in the pre-voting period, because, as has always been the case, polarisation and division, and simple "truths" is what wins votes.

            1 0 Reply
        6. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          Usually there are 4% clever people and 96% not so clever.

          How many Europeans can speak english?

          How many English can speak a foreign language, or even speak english correctly?

          3 1 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            Usually there are 4% clever people and 96% not so clever.

            How many Europeans can speak english?

            How many English can speak a foreign language

            You make an excellent point. If it weren't for the cleverness and success of those original English merchants in making English the language of international commerce and interchange we might all have to learn lots of languages. Even, heaven forbid, French!

            Well done the clever English.

            1 1 Reply
      2. codejunky Silver badge
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        Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

        @AC

        "The BREXITeers will be playing the same old tune of 'Everything will be fine don't worry' as we go cap in hand to the IMF for a loan that won't ever be repaid."

        This is an interesting insult to throw. Primarily because the IMF is currently bailing out the EU who went cap in hand in their bailing out of Greece for loans which will never be repaid. The second part of interest is the EU is also playing the rune of 'Everything will be fine don't worry' when they are not shouting about their existential crisis.

        15 12 Reply
        1. Dan 55 Silver badge
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          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          Sorry, did you say the IMF is bailing out the EU and the EU is bailing out Greece? It doesn't work like that.

          24 1 Reply
          1. codejunky Silver badge
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            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            @ Dan 55

            "Sorry, did you say the IMF is bailing out the EU and the EU is bailing out Greece?"

            No. If you remember there was a recession in which the EU didnt react to very well and it is an ongoing problem for them. When it happened Greece was hit hard and needed to follow standard IMF protocol of default, devalue and take temporary loans. The problem of course being that terrible currency the Euro which the EU didnt want to accept was screwed and so bought the private loans, and bailed out Greece along with the IMF as a joint action.

            If that is complicated lets try it this way- The EU currency is the Euro. Greece is in the EU and Eurozone. IMF is bailing out the Euro when they bail out a Euro country in the Euro. I promise its really not difficult to understand.

            13 17 Reply
            1. BigSLitleP
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              Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

              "The EU currency is the Euro. Greece is in the EU and Eurozone. IMF is bailing out the Euro when they bail out a Euro country in the Euro"

              As previously stated, it doesn't work like that. The Euro has different interest rates in different countries, meaning it behaves differently in different countries. Just because Greece is failing doesn't mean France or Germany are and doesn't mean the Euro is either. So the IMF is only bailing out Greece, not the EU.

              Or is that too complicated for you?

              6 3 Reply
              1. codejunky Silver badge
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                Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

                @ BigSLitleP

                "Just because Greece is failing doesn't mean France or Germany are and doesn't mean the Euro is either"

                The Euro is the Euro which is of course over all those countries. That is why the Euro is undervalued and overvalued all at the same time depending where you are. In Greece for example the Euro is overvalued and needs to fall, something the ECB tries to do by buying bonds from creditworthy (overvalued) countries. The effect brings down the Euro (see that EUR on exchange rates? Thats the Euro. Not Euro for one country or other but the Euro). As the Euro falls it is a stimulus, which is freaking terrible because it makes Germany more undervalued and so increased trade(for the undervalued currency) which pulls the Euro back up (see that EUR thing again. Only one).

                One suggestion to the economic crisis for the EU was a 2 speed Euro aka 2 currencies. You see that EUR they trade in? They never split it. There is 1 currency in the currency area and part of that area being bailed out by the IMF is the same EUR being bailed out by the IMF and reaches the same problem as above.

                Otherwise Greece would have its own currency which then would not affect the EUR, but it does.

                4 1 Reply
                1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
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                  Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

                  "The Euro is the Euro which is of course over all those countries. That is why the Euro is undervalued and overvalued all at the same time depending where you are."

                  On that we can agree. We were wise to stay out. After all we seem to find it hard to set interest rates that work properly for the whole of the UK. For the whole of England, in fact. That's not a great reason to cut off a large part of out home market, however, and hope that some surge of export trade will magically replace it.

                  7 0 Reply
          2. Philippe
            Reply Icon

            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            Don't be too harsh on him. He's a Brexiter. Everything is simple or someone else fault for a Brexiter

            17 6 Reply
        2. Philippe
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          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          On which planet does the IMF is buying out the EU?

          The IMF together with the EU provided funds to some of the bails out to Greece, they are not part of the latest round of financial support, as Greece is now considered officially saved.

          5 0 Reply
          1. codejunky Silver badge
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            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            @ Philippe

            "On which planet does the IMF is buying out the EU?"

            Bailing not buying. The planet is a bluish one called earth. Welcome.

            "The IMF together with the EU provided funds to some of the bails out to Greece"

            Thank you for agreeing the IMF bailed them out. So therefore showing the EU was being bailed out by the IMF. As I said to the other guy, it aint difficult to understand.

            "as Greece is now considered officially saved."

            Eh-what-now? That is a comical statement but no it isnt.

            4 8 Reply
            1. Dan 55 Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

              Thank you for agreeing the IMF bailed them out. So therefore showing the EU was being bailed out by the IMF. As I said to the other guy, it aint difficult to understand.

              So if a country uses US dollars as their official or pegged currency (say, a dollarized South American one), and the IMF bails it out, is that bailing the US out?

              5 1 Reply
              1. codejunky Silver badge
                Reply Icon

                Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

                @ Dan 55

                "So if a country uses US dollars as their official or pegged currency (say, a dollarized South American one), and the IMF bails it out, is that bailing the US out?"

                So if a country not US gets bailed out is that bailing out the US? Is that seriously your comparative question?

                If the IMF bailed out California then yes and that would be an equivalent example.

                2 3 Reply
                1. Dan 55 Silver badge
                  Reply Icon

                  Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

                  So if a country not US gets bailed out is that bailing out the US? Is that seriously your comparative question?

                  Yes, it is seriously my comparative question.

                  Each euro nation state has their own bonds, debt, and so on even though they use the same central bank to emit money and set interest rates.

                  So really, if you're arguing that bailing out Greece is bailing out the EU, then bailing out a dollarized economy is also bailing out the US.

                  And that's before we get to the bit about the EU not being a nation state.

                  If the IMF bailed out California then yes and that would be an equivalent example.

                  Why? Geography?

                  6 0 Reply
                  1. codejunky Silver badge
                    Reply Icon

                    Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

                    @ Dan 55

                    "Yes, it is seriously my comparative question."

                    That is where you do not understand then.

                    "Each euro nation state has their own bonds, debt, and so on even though they use the same central bank to emit money and set interest rates."

                    They have the shared currency EUR and it is one, singular only. They have tight rules over their economic policies and are chained to the same interest rates/source of money. They do not control their own currency, that is what the Euro entails, giving up your own currency to have the shared currency.

                    "So really, if you're arguing that bailing out Greece is bailing out the EU, then bailing out a dollarized economy is also bailing out the US."

                    Not exactly. As I said a direct comparison would be the IMF bailing out California, that is bailing out the US. The dollar being used (supply and tax) in the US. Some countries unofficially use the dollar but if you dump more dollar there how much of it interacts with the US? It is not as simple and could have effects on the US if that was to happen maybe depending.

                    Bailing out Greece to finance its Euro debt to the ECB and Euro banks is bailing out the Euro. Greece is not cut off from that Euro system it is in fact directly feeding into it.

                    "And that's before we get to the bit about the EU not being a nation state."

                    Eh? EU currency is Euro we are discussing the bailout of the Euro particularly a section of the Euro area directly interacting with the Euro area.

                    "Why? Geography?"

                    Not Geography, currency area. The economic area of that currency from issuer to country returning it to the issuer.

                    2 6 Reply
                    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
                      Reply Icon

                      Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

                      They have the shared currency EUR and it is one, singular only.

                      As do dollarized economies.

                      They have tight rules over their economic policies

                      You mean they shouldn't run a deficit.

                      and are chained to the same interest rates/source of money. They do not control their own currency, that is what the Euro entails, giving up your own currency to have the shared currency.

                      They have a shared central bank setting the interest rate, as do dollarized economies.

                      Not exactly. As I said a direct comparison would be the IMF bailing out California, that is bailing out the US.

                      No, that would be bailing out Californian bonds.

                      Eh? EU currency is Euro we are discussing the bailout of the Euro particularly a section of the Euro area directly interacting with the Euro area.

                      No backpedalling.

                      Quote 1: "Primarily because the IMF is currently bailing out the EU who went cap in hand in their bailing out of Greece for loans which will never be repaid."

                      Quote 2: "Thank you for agreeing the IMF bailed them out. So therefore showing the EU was being bailed out by the IMF. As I said to the other guy, it aint difficult to understand."

                      Not Geography, currency area. The economic area of that currency from issuer to country returning it to the issuer.

                      Once again, if a country dollarizes its economy, it becomes part of the dollar currency area.

                      You're arguing that bailing out a country is bailing out another country (or, in the EU's case, bailing out a supranational legal entity, if that were possible). I'm using the example of a dollarized economy to show that is not true.

                      3 0 Reply
                      1. codejunky Silver badge
                        Reply Icon

                        Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

                        @ Dan 55

                        "As do dollarized economies"

                        ok

                        "You mean they shouldn't run a deficit."

                        So you do understand that they are chained to the same restraints over the euro area. The same would apply within the US but not as much for economies unofficially using the dollar internally.

                        "They have a shared central bank setting the interest rate, as do dollarized economies."

                        Ok. And the states in the US use that money interacting with the central bank, the interaction being to varying degrees outside the US aka a weaker effect unless it suddenly got dumped onto the US economy (which would then hit as stimulus to the US and the FED would likely react by unwinding QE even faster). If the dollars stay away from the US supply of money the FED wont really care about it.

                        "No, that would be bailing out Californian bonds."

                        And would that put more USD in the US? Which of course would be devaluing the currency (QE/stimulus) which would be affecting the US as a whole. If its just locals swapping the money for assets in California then that is California taking on debt owed to the people.

                        "No backpedalling."

                        I aint. You made a pointless statement "EU not being a nation state". Its not back pedalling to point out you are saying something fairly pointless to the discussion. We are talking about the currency area which is the EU's currency area. Please tell me you know that?

                        "Once again, if a country dollarizes its economy, it becomes part of the dollar currency area."

                        And I am saying kinda maybe depending on circumstances. In a place where they just need a currency to trade with each other then no not really. They are not paying tax to the US, those dollars pretty much vanishing from the US as they are used internally. A currency pegged to the dollar then bailed out would no longer be pegged to the dollar, that is self explanatory (or if bailed out to keep the peg is likely dooming the economy but not affecting the US). If the place uses the dollar and gets bailed out, what are they bailed out in? The US controls the dollar. I am not sure where you are stuck.

                        "You're arguing that bailing out a country is bailing out another country"

                        No! That is not what I am arguing. Bail out France is not bailing out the UK. Bail out the GBP and you bail out the UK. Bail out the EUR and you bail out the EUR, these effects are the point of the bailout. The US dollar is slightly more difficult as it is often used internally in economies where their official currency went to pot.

                        "I'm using the example of a dollarized economy to show that is not true."

                        Try the UK instead of the US then. Bail out Scotland, or Wales or NI or England. The GBP goes down. Put more GBP in the system and the GBP falls. That is the intention of doing it.

                        1 2 Reply
      3. Nifty Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

        "When Airbus, BMW, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Hitachi, all the Financial Institution in the City and a host more all leave our sinking ship because of BREXIT"

        BMW, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Hitachi will all want to stay manufacturing in the UK so as not to be penalised by the tariffs that the USA and others place in EU built cars, in retaliation for the 10% EU car tariffs that we are currently bound by. But needn't be going forward.

        As for he Financial Institution in the City:

        http://www.cityam.com/288069/german-asset-managers-call-unhindered-access-city-post

        If the EU had been on a trajectory to genuinely freer trade and a socially viable set of intra-EU migration rules, we could easily have stayed in. It was not to be.

        10 12 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

          "10% EU car tariffs"

          As Trump has just imposed 20% tarrifs on European cars coming into the US (on the basis that US previosuly imposed no tariff but EU had a "protectionist" 10% tariff) then it appears that the German auto-makers have suddenly decided that they'd much prefer it if the EU and US went to 0% tariffs on cars.

          2 1 Reply
          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            Fortunately a post Brexit UK will be welcomed into USA free trade arms with no tarrifs - unlike those evil Canadians

            6 0 Reply
          2. Roland6 Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: HS2 and the Galileo replacement

            >(on the basis that US previosuly imposed no tariff but EU had a "protectionist" 10% tariff)

            The US and EU agreed WTO tariffs on cars were: 10% on US car imports into the EU and 2.5% on Eu cars imported into the US.

            Given the EU's stated position (wrt cars and other goods) in the TTIP negotiations was: "The EU wants to remove these duties and other barriers to trade, such as lengthy administrative checks, that increase the cost of trade in goods." You do have to wonder just where Trump is coming from with his usage of the national security loophole to impose a much higher tariff, rather than doing some face-to-face negotiation.

            I suspect part of the problem is that Trump is using techniques that wouldn't be out of place in the pre-fight showboating, baiting and audience-rousing at wrestling contests...

            Interestingly, it does seem that whilst he is grandstanding, accusing US companies like Harley-Davidson of being "un-American" for considering overseas manufacturing, and wanting EU auto-makes to be "un-European" and open factories in the US, the EU28 are playing a slightly different game...

            [See https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/us/politics/donald-trump-tariffs-trade-war.html ]

            1 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Better than average returns??

      even if the £3 Billion is out by an order of magnitude

      We just work out what the EU stiffed us for in terms of lost Galileo work, and subtract it from the "brexit bill".

      10 15 Reply
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Better than average returns??

      "£3 Billion is out by an order of magnitude it'll still be cheaper and more useful"

      What is the scenario where you think it will be of use? Any phone you buy will be able to use GPS from the US, Russia, China and the EU. It can do so because the silicon and software loaded into it when it was made in China. What's in it for the manufacturer to also include the effort needed to support any UK based system? It just isn't needed. It's stuff all use for the military too. What's being discussed only covers the UK so you can't make any use of it to carry out a precision bombing mission elsewhere in the world.

      3 11 Reply
      1. }{amis}{
        Reply Icon
        Terminator

        Re: Better than average returns??

        What is the scenario where you think it will be of use? Any phone you buy will be able to use GPS from the US, Russia, China and the EU.

        You answered your own question, all sat nav system's accuracy depends on the number of satellites it can see at any given time the more the better.

        It looks like the industry is trying to make self-driving cars the next tech unicorn, I can tell you for free that reducing the positional error for that gig by even 10% is a big deal, and I am sure that there are thousands of existing uses for any GPS style system that would benefit from another ~30 satellites no matter who owns them.

        And that's before we get to the real reason why these systems are built in the first place, modern military tactics and kit all revolve around precise positioning.

        At this point having your own geolocation system for you forces is pretty much a requirement to be considered a tier 1 threat.

        9 2 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Better than average returns??

          "modern military tactics and kit all revolve around precise positioning."

          Excellent! So you think a GPS enhancement that just covers the UK adds value? Who are you planning on bombing with this increased accuracy?

          "It looks like the industry is trying to make self-driving cars the next tech unicorn" ......

          And for them to work they can't rely on super high GPS positional accuracy otherwise they will all crash under the first bridge they encounter. GPS is need to give them a rough position on there map, after that they are on their own and need to rely on their onboard sensors. Increasing your map relative positional accuracy from 2m to 1.5m has little tangible value.

          3 0 Reply
          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Better than average returns??

            Increasing your map relative positional accuracy from 2m to 1.5m has little tangible value.

            And increasing it from 2m to 2cm relies on local beacons which you can use with any GNSS system on your own territory.

            3 0 Reply
          2. Roland6 Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Better than average returns??

            " GPS is need to give them a rough position on there map, after that they are on their own and need to rely on their onboard sensors. Increasing your map relative positional accuracy from 2m to 1.5m has little tangible value."

            I think many haven't come across the articles and forums around the web that provide examples where there are significant discrepancies between GPS position, map position and real-world position. The discrepencies can be such that in last years Tour du France, on one mountain section, the GPS map positional data had Chris Froome cycling in empty space, when clearly from the TV feed he was on the road...

            3 0 Reply
            1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
              Reply Icon

              Re: Better than average returns??

              the GPS map positional data had Chris Froome cycling in empty space, when clearly from the TV feed he was on the road...

              Obviously a fake video! :-)

              2 0 Reply
  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "On the latter figure, Bebb smiled wryly and suggested the committee not believe everything they read in the papers."

    I think they knew that already. It always works out more expensive. In fact, there's a sort of Hofstadter's law at work on MoD cost estimates.

    9 0 Reply
  3. W Donelson

    Theresa May's Tory Brexit plans, direct from Looney Tunes!

    - "How to jump off a cliff without falling."

    18 0 Reply
  4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    the government remained optimistic

    Due diligence. We've heard of it. Actually we haven't? What is it?

    20 0 Reply
  5. Ian K
    WTF?

    Minister for Defence Procurement, Guto Bebb

    "Guto Bebb"?

    'fess up Reg, you're sneaking in a Star Wars name and seeing if anyone notices.

    19 0 Reply
    1. ToddRundgrensUtopia
      Reply Icon

      Re: Minister for Defence Procurement, Guto Bebb

      Both Guto and Bebb are welsh!

      0 0 Reply
  6. Disgruntled of TW
    Facepalm

    Nose, face, bite ...

    Sad that the EU is taking this approach. There are many agreements which do not depend on membership of the EU, and this feels like a spiteful baby/bathtub response with no benefit to the EU other than a bargaining chip as we exit.

    17 22 Reply

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Vulch
      Reply Icon

      Re: Nose, face, bite ...

      During the initial Galileo negotiations one EU member insisted on a clause excluding non-EU states from access to certain capabilities of the system. Would you like to have a guess which one it was?

      42 2 Reply

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Remember my name, FAME! Remember, remember, remember...

          Hi Shadmeister,

          You think it's being "spiteful" to let someone get hoisted by their own petard?

          And perhaps the EU expects the UK to contribute on the basis it agreed to contribute on those terms in the first place?

          Regards,

          Anonymous Coward.

          P.S. I know the name's already listed above the post, but I'm concerned I might not get the attention I deserve if I don't add this cutesy gimmick. Hope that's okay with you, Shadmeister.

          P.P.S. Shame that Bombastic Bob got the randomly-PUTTING-things-in-CAPS gimmick first, isn't it?

          17 5 Reply

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Dr Stephen Jones
        Reply Icon

        Re: Nose, face, bite ...

        "During the initial Galileo negotiations one EU member insisted on a clause excluding non-EU states from access to certain capabilities of the system. Would you like to have a guess which one it was?"

        Let me guess. Is it one with a powerful space lobby, a history of shafting the UK, and a lot of runny cheese?

        2 17 Reply
        1. ArrZarr Silver badge
          Reply Icon
          Joke

          Re: Nose, face, bite ...

          Actually, it's the one with a powerful space lobby, a history of shafting the UK and a lot of cheddar cheese.

          21 0 Reply

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