back to article No fandango for you: EU boots UK off Galileo satellite project

It's official: the UK is going to be booted off the Galileo satellite GPS program as a result of Brexit, despite furious protestations from Britain that it's a special case. The decision was reached by all 27 member states of Europe at a meeting on Tuesday and was confirmed in a slide deck [PDF] released on Wednesday. Just …

Page:

      1. Nick Porter

        Re: If not doing something because it was "inconvenient" was the ciriteria for Brexit..

        There are 38 other ground stations that are not on UK territories and they are highly redundant. Additionally, the ground stations in the Falklands and Ascension are not 'ours', they are owned and operated by GSA and the UK is still enough of a rules-based country that our government can't shut down private enterprises without having a legal case to do so. "They won't let us play, it's not fair!" doesn't usually go down very well with a High Court judge.

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. JimmyPage Silver badge
      FAIL

      RE: Essentially, the EU are denying the UK a secure future.

      By request of .... The UK.

    2. Vimes

      Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

      Didn't the UK have a hand in writing the rules that said that non-EU states shouldn't be given this level of access? And that's precisely what we'll be after Brexit: a non-EU state. No amount of negotiation or fanciful plans will change that.

      Now the EU is being vindictive because it's following rules that we helped lay down? Seriously?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Vimes

          Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

          Are you honestly expecting the EU to give non-EU states the sort of control over its own systems that the US refuses to share with others when it comes to its own GPS systems even if they are NATO allies?

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

              "We paid our share for the development etc., - if we don't get that back then we should be allowed to decode the PRS signal."

              You may thing we should but that's just your personal view. The reality is that unless the contracts were written that way that can't happen.

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. This post has been deleted by its author

            3. Roland6 Silver badge

              Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

              @Shadmeister - your argument falls apart as soon as you remember the default position of the Brexit nutters was for the UK to walk away with no deal; this option is still on the table as T.May et al like to remind everyone when things aren't going their way...

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

                1. Roland6 Silver badge

                  Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

                  >A clean slate approach worked from WTO is probably more efficient.

                  FYI, whilst the UK and the EU are members of the WTO, only the EU28 has a WTO 'slate', currently post-Brexit both the EU27 and UK will have clean WTO 'slates' - the one thing ALL the other members of the WTO are agreed on is that the EU27 and UK can't simply take the EU28 slate...

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

                  " A clean slate approach worked from WTO is probably more efficient."

                  So, 10+ years to get a standard third party agreement that can be approved by all 27 EU members, a number of which will have their own special requirements that will be easier to get from a desperate country with unfavourable trade terms with the entire world..

            4. strum Silver badge

              Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

              >this is about security

              Yes it is. Why should the EU trust the UK?

        2. Aitor 1 Silver badge

          Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

          The EU can give access to the secure code to non eu, but will not give the keys to non eu military as they are a security risk with different goals. So not trustworthy in the long run.

          Are we given access to the us scrambling/descrambling technology? I dont think so.. and we do want they want us to do..

          Basically we have decided to get divorced, and now we are complaining that our ex would not give us the keys to the house in the beach.

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

            "Basically we have decided to get divorced, and now we are complaining that our ex would not give us the keys to the house in the beach."

            And of course, we came to the marriage pretty abjectly penniless in the first place and have been an abusive partner the entire time, even when the partner was patching up our sick economy.

        3. David Webb

          Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

          Because Brexit = Brexit, it doesn't mean "leave but keep all the advantages that we have when we're part of the EU". The majority voted, this is what they voted for, for us to leave the EU and the EU institutions because some guy with a foreign sounding name (Farage and the like) come over here and do jobs for minimum wage that lazy twats over here refuse to do because it's hard work.

        4. anothercynic Silver badge

          Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

          If that is what we would've wanted, then that's what we would've negotiated when the Galileo project rules were written. But we didn't. WE were the ones saying "NO non-EU state should have PRS". We insisted on it. Now the EU is applying *exactly* that rule and you don't like it and say "But NATO states should perhaps have it"? Bollocks.

          Suck it up, princess.

          1. Rob D. Bronze badge
            Pint

            Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

            > Suck it up, princess.

            Worth a beer. For you, not the princess.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

              1. Nick Kew Silver badge

                Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

                I think the EU is a good idea, but as shown by Angela Merkel's response to David Cameron (no to temp stop on immigration),

                At the heart of that is the biggest lie. The part of immigration that everyone hated - the ability to live (partially) on benefits, and to get things like NHS treatment - were never part of EU rules. Cameron never needed Merkel's permission to fix perverse UK rules that had (still have) the side-effect of giving unpopular benefits to EU citizens in the UK.

                1. This post has been deleted by its author

                  1. Nick Kew Silver badge

                    Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

                    Did Cameron not ask to implement s temporary halt to immigration into the UK ?

                    No.

                    1. This post has been deleted by its author

                  2. Mark Dempster

                    Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

                    >Did Cameron not ask to implement s temporary halt to immigration into the UK ? and Angela Merkel refused ?<

                    I don't believe he did, no. But did YOU know (most leaver's don't seem to) that EU rules specifically state that any EU migrant can be expelled from a country if they don't have a job sfter 3 months? The UK just chose not to impose that rule. And that would surely have removed the complaint that 'they come over here for benefits and housing', wouldn't it?

                    1. Roland6 Silver badge

                      Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

                      >>Did Cameron not ask to implement s temporary halt to immigration into the UK ?

                      I believe he did until it was pointed out that the UK wasn't using the powers already available to it to manage the movement of EU workers and people...

                2. HPCJohn

                  Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

                  Nick, so true.

                  Just go and live in any EU country. You have freedom of movement after all.

                  After three months you can be thrown back out of you do not have a job or proof that you can support yourself. But the UK press conveniently forgot that one in the hysteria about immigrants.

                  The UK press also convenienty conflate people from outwith the EU with people from the EU.

                3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
                  Unhappy

                  Cameron never needed Merkel's permission to fix perverse UK rules

                  This smells like more of the handiwork of The Home Office, the UK's designated "Centre for Evil"

                  Once again blaming someone else for their s**t.

          2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Thumb Up

            Suck it up, princess.

            Nice.

            They asked for Brexit.

            They got Brexit.

            Now they can own it.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

        5. heyrick Silver badge

          Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

          "and we all are subject to the same threats as the EU countries"

          Funny how all this "better in it together" was a bad thing during the referendum when the populace wanted to "take back control", but now that the dust is settling and it's becoming clear what the consequences are, suddenly "better in it together" is more like a desperate plea.

          There's actually a fairly easy fix for all of this - call off Brexit. But, wait, can you see Dacre and Rees-Mogg accepting that?

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

            1. Mooseman Bronze badge

              Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

              "the UK should therefore NOT pay the EU for future commitments - because hey, we are now not in it together."

              You keep repeating this mantra despite everyone pointing out the basic flaw. Galileo has a specific caveat (written at our insistence) that no non-EU country can use it or the signals from it. On the other hand, the UK has committed to paying in to existing EU projects for the next few years, hence the "divorce bill".

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. Mephistro Silver badge

              Re: EU Are Being Vindictive (@ Shadmeister)

              "Pure and simple vindictiveness."

              No. Pure and simple logic. You'll likely agree that there's no guarantee that any country external to the EU will keep its political/military interests aligned with those of the EU in the future, and even if they did, giving them the set of "system's keys" would compromise Galileo's security in many unacceptable ways.

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

                1. Lars Silver badge
                  Happy

                  Re: EU Are Being Vindictive (@ Shadmeister)

                  "The EU need to accept that we are leaving and rebalance their accounts to accept the reduction in funding, due to funding from the UK being withdrawn".

                  They will, that has been agreed upon in that first part. Asking for more time to leave having all the old advantages will not be "on the house", not that you asked for that, (not that I claim I understand your sentence fully).

                  The EU will not prevent the UK from leaving, only the British can, and I think they should, for reasons they have to grasp all by themselves, many have.

                  1. This post has been deleted by its author

                    1. Lars Silver badge
                      Happy

                      Re: EU Are Being Vindictive (@ Shadmeister)

                      Hi Shadmeister.

                      I wrote this regarding that 10 days ago:

                      "Re: Well, duh

                      "Which one of them is going to take up the UK position in the financial world? Or pay the UK share of the budget?".

                      Don't worry, it will be a combination of the size of the budget, the amount payed out to some countries* and perhaps a slight increase for the ten who pay in more than they receive. Some business will leave the UK for the EU and be helpful in that respect. The UK is less than 15% of the EU.

                      Things will be solved as before, what would be the choice.

                      *thinking of Poland and Hungary who are on a dangerous traction since some time and might end up with much less support."

                      What is there to add, perhaps that the EU is a 20 trillion "business" and one trillion is 1000 billions. One billion here or there is really just pocket money.

                      You might perhaps wonder why a guy like me who is not British, if a member of the club, bothers to explain his opinion about Brexit or not Brexit.

                      Let me explain it like this. If I had a son who publicly wanked at a bus stop I would express my kind opinion about it firmly. If on the other hand (oh well) it was somebody "foreign" I would most likely sneer and look the other way. I hope this helps.

                      No other European country has, like Britain, since the thirties, undressed, exposing a rather weak education standard and a rather defunct political system. What else is there to say.

                      1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. Vimes

            Re: EU Are Being Vindictive @heyrick

            There's a word for people that promote and intentionally follow a course of action they know will cause harm to their country. It's one that the likes of the daily mail is rather fond of using when it suits them: traitor.

            https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/13/tory-mp-jacob-rees-mogg-defends-setting-hedge-fund-branch-ireland/

          3. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

            "But, wait, can you see Dacre and Rees-Mogg accepting that?"

            Dacre and Rees-Mogg are rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of being able to throw out the inconveniences of things like the European Declaration of human rights (penned by British and American lawyers and not part of the EU's purview anyway)

            The factor that "once out, going back in will involve all those special deals that we currently have won't be on the table anymore"hasn't sprung to mind, nor that in order to trade with the EU we're going to have to abide by their rules anyway.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

              1. Vimes

                Re: EU Are Being Vindictive @shadmeister

                So basically it's still undefined. Anything not tested in court is essentially little more than an opinion however informed it may or may not be. There are other opinions too. Even your own link says so. See the following article as an example:

                https://www.ft.com/content/72252768-47de-11e8-8ae9-4b5ddcca99b3

                On one hand you're accusing the EU of being vindictive merely by plainly following the rules *WE LAID DOWN*. On the other you suggest we should bend the rules as far as possible - maybe even beyond breaking point - purely to serve our own selfish interests and make a point.

                And yet you still think the EU are the ones trying to be vindictive? Really?

                It's also entirely possible that the EU will come up with projects or organisations in the future that the UK will want to join. What do you think the likelihood is of this happening will be if we've proven ourselves to be unreliable in the past?

                1. This post has been deleted by its author

              2. strum Silver badge

                Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

                >should we not therefore action the non-payment approach where legally possibly -

                God, no. That would mark us as a delinquent debtor, making it near impossible to do business with anyone. No-one trusts someone who tries to wheedle out of their debts.

                1. This post has been deleted by its author

          4. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

            >But, wait, can you see Dacre and Rees-Mogg accepting that?

            We could resurrect the traditional English custom of Hanging, drawing and quartering of such people and put their remains (and those of other 'traitors') on display beside roads across the country...

      2. arctic_haze Silver badge

        Re: EU Are Being Vindictive

        "Now the EU is being vindictive because it's following rules that we helped lay down? Seriously?"

        It is just another example of the UK politicians thinking Britain is "special" and above the rules it itself helped to set up.

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019