back to article YES, Xbox One DOES need internet, DOES restrict game trading

Microsoft has finally confirmed that Xbox fans' worst fears are at least partially true: Although the new Xbox One gaming console won't need an always-on internet connection, that connection had better be on pretty often or you can forget about gaming. And don't assume you'll be able to sell or trade your old games, either. " …

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Devil

Re: The real meaning of the new console's name

Let Uncle Fester Fist Up the OXO With an XBone!

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FAIL

"Great" DVD player?

If the 360 or any MS-related software player are anything to go by, Microsoft's idea of a "great" *-disc player is so far sub-par that my over a decade old standalone DVD player runs cirles around it in every aspect.

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Anonymous Coward

I had been looking forward to the new XBox. Not now. I will definitely not buy one. I had made that decision before the news about PRISM and the NSA snooping. Now my resolve is significantly stronger. Microsoft were one of the first to bend over and give unadulterated access to their servers and user data. Do I really want to buy a machine that can--and undoubtedly will--spy on me and my family?

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If they followed the Steam model I wouldn't mind so much (30 days offline play, mega discounted AA titles etc.) but pay full price for phyiscal games that can't be sold and can't be played after just one day of being off-line??

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One the positive side

..the xbox won't listen in on every conversation you have in your living room, whether you allow it to or not.

Are our expectations really this low?

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Neat

I've never seen a console kick itself in the balls before.

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FAIL

The Royal one?

Is it just me that read it as the Royal one?

One does connect to the Internet, One does rule the gaming consoles, One does gouge you with fees?

XBOX One thinks its royalty?

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XBoxed

X Box nOne for me.

Have MS boosted the old second hand console market values?!

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WTF?

and another thing

Why should people even buy physical games in this model? surely there's no added benefit to it anymore? I might as well just buy my games from the online store. I guess i'm starting to see the even bigger picture, Microsoft and the game publsihers don't want a slice of the second hand market, they want a large slice of the entire retail business.

Well what can i say, other then they can go F..K themselves?

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Trollface

XBox 360 update

that will also prevent un registered game use in the pipeline?

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Offline

So, I have connection problems for a few days, or, I go on holiday for 2 weeks.

When I get back to my Xbox One what will work ?

We need to know

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Facepalm

Looks like I'll be getting the other console then...

I'm very tempted at the minute to get a minute PS3 (£140, what can go wrong?) The bulky always listening Xbox 1 (Xbox 3 == Xbox 1? Makes sense...) is creeping me out.

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That's saved me a bit of cash on next-gen games and consoles. Let's see if Sony save me a bit more.

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FAIL

Easy choice for me then...

I completely skipped getting an Xbox360 or PS3. I'd predominantly had PC and Wii for the odd game or two.

I did fancy getting an Xbox360 in summer due to the good USED back-catalogue of games that you can buy for between £10 upwards but was waiting on the clarifications for the XboxOne.

Lack of backwards Xbox360 compatibility had already pretty much ruled it out but this news about the second hand market is pretty much the icing on the cake for me.

Will hold out now and see what the PS4 is like now (although that too isn't backwards compatible) or just buy a cheap second hand Xbox360 and run it into the ground on older games.

On the Internet side - if they had followed a model like Steam (activate once and allow offline play) then that would have been fine. As it stands - barring issues with the phone line etc. - we have always on internet here. Just means you wouldn't be able to take your console away on holiday (and sometimes the break away from technology is just fine)

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Thumb Down

24 hour dial home

If the repeated dial home (that you can't turn off if you want to play games) is for updates (that presumably you can't turn off either) then what are the odds of a poorly written update that could disable the world's xbox one machines within 24 hours?

I mean its not like MS to release updates that make things worse, is it?

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Re: 24 hour dial home

Poorly written? It can be done on purpose (and I hope someone will do it).

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Re: 24 hour dial home

I wasn't suggesting it wouldn't be done on purpose, just that MS would probably do it themselves anyway.

In fact after the Xbox One is released, I give it about a week before someone has bypassed this and all dial home requests are being responded to by the router, which will probably open up a number of other exploits.

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Mushroom

Re: 24 hour dial home

Basic public / private key cryptography would defeat that type of auto responder. And as we all know, it is Sony that doesn't understand cryptography. Microsoft have historically been quite good at it...

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FAIL

I love Microsoft

No seriously, they are great, I mean they can STILL use the phrase "We listen to our customers", without any hint of sarcasm or irony, they can and still use that phrase.

....And no one has yet beaten them to death with their own foot?

100% on Kinnect and 'should be' 100% on internet. What next? Gold membership (with the cost) 100% of the time. (You heard it here first folks)

I will stick to PC's and Steam, at least they ask a very nice pop up question when they ask you if they can take something like PC hardware details, allowing you to say no.

As a part time user of my Xbox and a one time user of the kinnect (the games were sh1t) it came with, gaming is poor, controls are poor, the degisn is poor, the titles are rehashed from previous ones and the sound of the machine playing a disk is louder than the film it is playing, all bundled under a windows 'metro' interface which takes a four step process to move bettwen menus and makes it a fifteen step process to move around, (or wave your arms like a dick) is also sh1te so why upgrade?

Think I will stick with my PC and media centres.

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Go

Big. Deal.

My XBOX is connected to the net 24/7.

I'm taking a wild stab in the dark that 90% of existing 360's are connected 24/7

The only thing that perturbs me is VirginMedia's inability to provide 24/7 internet, so I guess a switch to BT is inevitable come this autumn.

Otherwise I am just not bothered in the slightest. My PC Steam account sure likes to check into the net regularly too.

Of course, if you are

a) Paranoid

b) Like stealing your games

This DRM 'centric move is probably gonna annoy you. Stick to your free add-sponsored mobile games or fire up your old 486 for a game of Dark Forces or Tie Fighter.

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Stop

Re: Big. Deal.

You trust British Telecom to provide a 24/7 internet connection?

Dream on.

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Thumb Down

Re: Big. Deal.

You're missing the point. Yes, my 360 is wired to the internet 24/7 as well, but if i choose to do so, it'll fully function after i take the cable out. THAT'S the issue here. If i take out the cable of an Xbox one, it'll stop working after 24 hours and in my book, that's a big no no.

And yes, i'm paranoid, do you feel completely safe knowing companies like Microsoft are likely to share their data with the NSA? data gathered by your console? by your consoles camera and microphone?

Also, you attitidue is sorely lacking in common decency.

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Re: Big. Deal.

That actually sounds like an awesome idea. Dark Forces and Tie Fighter were great games.

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Facepalm

Re: Big. Deal.

BT, 24/7? what a laugh...

It took me 2 years to get them to send an engineer out and admit there was a fault!

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Devil

Re: Big. Deal.

Yeah, so how often DO you unplug your 360 from the net? Aside from when your ISP inadvertently does it for you? :)

The "you"s in the next bit arn't directed to you, dear commentard, but to the reader in general.

If you thought your browsing or phoning was private, then you have never worked in IT or engineering. Idle techs will happily read your emails for kicks, check your internet history or listen in to your calls. People get bored, and, truth be told, it's a giggle.

As I've said elsewhere on the net, you are more likely to get shot in the US than have any of the agencies take an active interest in what you, joe public is really up to. Unless of course your mate you phone every few weeks is a coke dealer or an unknown-to-you armchair jihadi, in which case you'll pop up in their network analysis.

This sort of SIGINT has been around for bloody years in the UK along with ANPR cameras.

IN reality there is so much data, most of it is ignored. UK goes bonkers and elects the EDL on a landslide, I'm not worried. Its still quite easy to be an unnoticed child/soldier murderer with dodgy browsing habits, so most of the overly paranoid non-gamers on this thread can continue spitting their dummies out with no discernable impact on Xbox One sales.

I fully expect the "must phone home" time to slip to 3 or 5 days or even longer once launch comes round.

As a parting gambit, I guess most of you downvoters turn your phones off and take the sim & battery out once you've made you call or checked for SMS's.

I think the PS4 might win the console "war" by virtue of being faster and bundling a library of games for a yearly subscription, a kinda netflix-for-games @ £50pa or somesuch; sorta xboxbox live with a point.. It will have zero to do with this farago.

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Re: Big. Deal.

exactly. oh so so so many hours playing DF. Best StarWars game by a mile. {sigh}

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Devil

Re: Big. Deal.

Don't get in a tizzy. just don't buy one. It's not mandatory.

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Facepalm

Re: Big. Deal.

> 2013

> Using "paranoid" as an attribute with negative connotations.

I SHIGGEDY DIGGEDY

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Thumb Down

Re: Big. Deal.

We never have our console plugged into the net mate. And when we go on holiday, and its raining and we have no internet connection, what do we do then?

So in my opinion, a stupid terrible idea to have it permanent plugged in, or require a daily connection. Nothing to do with privacy fool.

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WTF?

Re: Big. Deal.

Speak for yourself. I happen to be an email admin and i most certainly don't read my customer's email. None of my colleagues do either. I'm pretty sure this is just a sad trolling attempt, but if not i pitty your clients.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Big. Deal.

I'm sure the NSA have better things to do than watch your gay fetish sex sessions, so unless you are using an RPG as a dildo, you are pretty safe imo.....

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Mushroom

Re: Big. Deal.

You can still dispose of your own property - the disk - as you see fit. It might not do much without a license though...

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This makes the Ouya look highly impressive!

Stunning that all this is blowing up in MS's face now. With E3 coming up, there's not going to be chance to talk about games. It won't be just games journalists there, but regular press (I hope) badgering MS execs on providing information to the Government.

Always on? Kinect always running? Listening in? Identifying who's in the room?

No wonder it's already being known as the Xbox1984

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Re: This makes the Ouya look highly impressive!

Not likely - Microsoft have cancelled their press round table and won't be talking to journalist.

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Trollface

Prizm preloaded?

If it comes with Prizm preloaded. I can only imagine.. Just think at the NSA you can cobble together the largest voyeur collection ever imagined. its Amazing HAL.. its full of naked people.. Xbone is People! its People talking in the living room! So y’all need to hide your kids, hide your wife, and hide your husband cause they’re tapin’ everybody out there.

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FAIL

Well, that cinches it

The pretty much required Kinect that's on all the time, the restrictions on used games, the blatant invasion into privacy beyond what I normally expect from Microsoft, the crappy price, no backwards compatibility and honestly the console's fugly. I don't mind the "always on" Internet required, I kind of expected that. The only pull they could possibly have at this point would be that the exclusives would have to be amazing. Like REALLY amazing. Like beaming a holographic Scarlett Johanssen into my living room that I could interact with amazing.

If I have to get another console, it'll be PS4. Or I'll just spend my money on my PC...I can emulate DOS on there and play the original XCom on that. How's THAT for backwards compatibility.

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Considering we have a legal right within the EU to resell software under our own terms how exactly without adding time limits to the ownership of software, which is of dubious legality in itself when media is supplied do Microsoft intend to implement this without falling foul of the law. Even if as Microsoft say they are merely allowing Software houses to charge they are directly facilitating an illegal act and as they charge a license fee on each and every new sale they are benefiting from an illegal act.

I think someone needs to write a piece on the legality of Microsofts actions. This could make the anti trust cases small in comparison.

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Silver badge

Simple: They never sell you the software in the first place, merely subscribe or lease you to it (think Steam and OnLive; both use the same model). You cannot resell what was never legally yours.

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Silver badge

"Simple: They never sell you the software in the first place, merely subscribe or lease you to it (think Steam and OnLive; both use the same model). You cannot resell what was never legally yours."

That argument has been proved invalid:

From: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-07/04/eu-judgement-implications

"On 3 July, the European Court of Justice made a pretty important judgement. It said that software makers exhausted their distribution rights when they sell software to a customer -- whether it's on a physical medium or distributed over the web.

That sounds dry, but what it means is that customers can re-sell their digital downloads, and developers have no ability to prohibit second hand sales."

Also, the court said: (From: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2012/07/04/curia-digital-distribution/1 )

‘The principle of exhaustion of the distribution right applies not only where the copyright holder markets copies of his software on a material medium (CD-ROM or DVD) but also where he distributes them by means of downloads from his website. Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy – tangible or intangible – and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy.

‘Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy.’

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Mushroom

buhbye M$

The reasons I can't purchase the new XBOX.

1. It spies on you 24/7 with camera and mic.

2. Basically requires an always on Internet connection to feed data to the NSA, M$ marketing and sales as well as the highest bidder. You can damn well bet they will sell it just like GOOGLE does.

3. M$ can't ever make something secure. I give it a month tops before some hacker is spying on some MILF and posting it on 4Chan. Or god forbid some fat old man.

4. Now I have to ask for M$'s permission to give a game away let along sell it.

Any one of these items is a deal breaker, but if the games are good enough MAYBE give it a go, but all of these (and I'm sure there are more issues) is just too much to take. I'll stick with the 360 and just skip the XBOX 1, I was planning on getting it and the PS4 but meh just the PS4 and more games I guess for that system. I wasn't planning on getting the WII U but I might as well now as there is no way in hell I'll get and XBOX One till I can run it without the Kinect plugged in, with the ability to filter the data that M$ receives and the ability to give the games that I PURCHASED away to friends and family as I FUCKING see fit without their knowledge or fucking permission.

FYI they can also take that METRO ui and shove it up their ass so far that they choke on it.

I wanted to be polite about this but I just couldn't. I had high hopes for the new XBOX but it comes with so much of the worst aspects of technology that it just angers me in the extreme and knowing there are so many sheeple that will simply get it cause they don't understand just serves to make me madder still. Till the XBOX 1.1 comes out I just will not get it and I will tell everyone I know just how invasive it is and I'll be doubly sure that all the mothers out there know that hackers will be spying on them and their children hoping to get some nude footage of them to post for all to see and fap too.

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Worry not

"...you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies. "

They should promote the writer of that line to VP. If only they weren't already.

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WTF?

Take my games with me where ever I go?

Assuming I'm prepared to wait for ~4GB to download?

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Anonymous Coward

Real test

People will buy it, mostly because they are completly clueless about this. They'll bitch and scream and moan when they go to said used games stores, however, that it's totally unfair they can't exchange Xbox One games. That, sadly, is when they will realise how stupid the idea is. By then, everybody else will be doing the same and we'll start to see the death of the console.

What's annoying is they are doing the same thing with Office and Windows too now. You should see how fun that is when some broke ass shows up at the tech shop and wants you to install his sister's cousin's office on his 7 years old computer, cause now they can't see the cat pps ...

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Happy

All sounds good to me

don't you have to keep your Sky box connected every day too?

my 360 is connected every day too

i'd rather have this than the shuffling the disks in and out of the trays when I switch game - I just want to play it.

true, it's not like the PC.

how does steam do it? how often does it have to call home?

loads if you lot are winging about it, but it's an awesome way to get a reliable, fantastic spec gfx machine.

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Holmes

Re: All sounds good to me

What happens when you fill the hard drive? It is not upgradeable and all games must live on it. So 15 games or so in, you will have to delete your collection to play something new. So games will only be available for a few months to the average person. You can always revert to 'shuffling disks'. You should think more.

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Anonymous Coward

Don't come crying to us when you crave gaming but all you can do is watch DVDs!

Think it will never happen? Then you're making big assumptions. How will this 24 hours limit work exactly. We don't know! Take a scenario where someone in your house watched DVDs and BlueRays all day yesterday, but they had stupidly unplugged the router. Now today, there's maintenance in your area and your net connection is down. You've just got home from work and you're craving some gaming but the AdBox1 wants to call home first... On that day by all means enjoy your "we are planning for a connected future" user experience! I think the connected interval needs to be longer i.e. a week minimum. Otherwise taking the box on holiday for instance is out of the question.

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Silver badge

Re: All sounds good to me

Where does it say the games MUST reside on the internal drive? What happened to external drive support which already exists on the 360?

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