back to article Gnome cofounder: Desktop Linux is a CHERNOBYL of FAIL

Gnome project cofounder and current Xamarin CTO Miguel de Icaza says he's done wrestling with Linux on the desktop, and that he now uses Apple kit exclusively for all of his workstation needs. De Icaza is well known in the open source community for developing a number of client-side technologies for Linux, including the …

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Macs are a rich man's toy

The thriving resale market for Macs makes them arguably less expensive to own than PCs with much lower initial purchase prices. I have owned many Macs and PCs... it's very easy to get half or more of a Mac's MSRP back when reselling it, whereas with PCs, you're lucky to get anything at all.

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Linux

Re: Macs are a rich man's toy

I expect to use a PC until it's obsolete.

At that point, I would feel GUILTY getting a kings ransom for it when it really isn't warranted.

I would be EMBARRASED at the idea you are describing.

If you're starting in with "resale value" then you've completely lost the argument.

I am not a trivium merchant.

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Bronze badge

Re: Macs are a rich man's toy

I have more than half-a-dozen Macs within spitting distance that still have years of useful life left in them. I've never purchased one new, and have spent $0 (zero) total acquiring these. None were stolen, btw. I can't use them all at once, but it's fun to have diversions and things to play with apart from the main machine (or two). For example, consistent with the subject of this thread, I've just been noodling the installation of the last/latestDebian for PPC on a machine that's a bit behind the curve, speedwise. I will likely do that shortly.

As for software on the Mac, there's an unending supply of it--literally and legally free. Software that is quite good. I was surprised to find, too, that LibreOffice is available for even the now long-obsoleted PPC machines. Have installed it, but haven't used it yet (really have little need of it, and I already have NeoOffice installed). Commercial offerings? Meh! There's a freeware alternative. So no need to pirate software.

So, " 'no' to the dogma; Macs are not a rich man's toy". As with anything, they can be; you can have everything you own made of titanium or carbon fibre, and it will cost you and might impress some, but you probably don't strictly need to go that route. If I were to spend money on a new computer, I wouldn't balk at Apple's prices--yes, I know what the margins are, I know what the alternatives are, and I know the value of my contentment in using any of them ...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Macs are a rich man's toy

If you use a PC until it's obsolete, that means you're still using it when it's borderline obsolete. Why would you do that to yourself unless you're hopelessly strapped for cash? A Pentium 3 can still run Windows 8 and all modern software, but call me crazy, I'd rather have something a little faster.

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Re: Macs are a rich man's toy

> If you use a PC until it's obsolete...

Then I probably took advantage of the modular nature of that PC to turn it into something else once it was no longer suited (or wanted) for it's original purpose. The problem with Macs is that they are intended to be closed boxes that are difficult if not impossible to maintain. So a slightly used Mac may become obsolete more quickly than it's PC counterpart.

Not enough RAM. Tiny hard drive. GPU that really really sucks.

So instead of getting a new Mini, I can use that P3 and just buy a new video card.

Not everyone needs to prove how quickly they can waste money.

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Anonymous Coward

Give me a fecking break

Assclown responsible for terrible Linux desktop says that desktop is terrible on Linux.. you don't say?

Personally, I moved to XCFE on my Linux boxes a while back, which was a huge relief.

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Unhappy

He's right about hardware and driver issues

I've been playing with Linux distros since Yggdrasil in 1993 or so, but quite frankly the only option for my real work is Windows. It is not fashionable but it's what the hardware makers support best, and it has the most available applications, including some I use that don't have Mac or Linux versions. It is quite stable nowadays (I once kept an XP desktop machine running over 6 months between reboots) if you don't screw up and let ActiveX or its other virus vectors run.

So I built myself a new desktop machine recently. Asus mobo, AMD A10 CPU/GPU. Nothing exotic; the mobo handles almost everything. Win7 Pro installed easily. It doesn't run all of my old Windows software, but if I care, its VM runs an XP image which can thunk back to old 16-bit code. Macs don't have that kind of backwards compatibility, and MacOS won't run on homebrew hardware. I guess my wardrobe isn't up to Apple standards either.

I also installed Linux Mint (KDE edition) on it. That's an enhanced Kubuntu, some non-free stuff thrown in. It looked good at first, and supported the sound, video, and Ethernet. Knoppix literally wouldn't run on the AMD GPU, Mint did. The sound's a bit buggy, some audio players generate a few seconds of noise at the start of a song, but generally it works. Okay, maybe they finally got a Linux desktop to work! But when I rebooted into it recently after running Windows for a while, the video was AFU. I had to reboot again to get the GPU to initialize right. Typical...

Even Linus admits that Linux is basically a server OS. Miguel was of course no help with GNOME, which started off-base and went further astray. I actually like KDE. But compatibility remains a real issue. Fixing it is a nice hobby project for those who like such things, but after 20 years it's still not ready for prime time. So I get why Miguel bugged out.

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Meh

Re: He's right about hardware and driver issues

You're misquoting Linus. What he said was that linux has not caught on--- on the desktop. And what he means by this is that the Enterprise has not caught on to the linux desktop... but he never said that linux is just a server OS...

In other words, the Enterprise has not figured out how to leverage the desktop on linux the way it has on the phone and tablet market. That does not mean in any way that the linux desktop is not a success... nor that folks are not using it.

Linux is a huge success on the desktop for the very reason that Linus states... the Enterprise has not been able to control it nor capitalize on it... its still free, and its what makes my PC a personal computer. ... its not apple's, nor is it microsoft's . Its mine... and that means successful !

The issues with drivers all come down to software idea patents. Let's get that straight right now... its not the OSs fault... once software idea patents are killed, microsoft and apple will both die. Linux will remain, and will remain free.

Miguel knows this too. Like I said before, I simply do not believe him. Seems like he is trolling, at least for a job.

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Re: He's right about hardware and driver issues

It's not a software patent that makes using wifi on my laptop for more than an hour panic the kernel.

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FAIL

Re: He's right about hardware and driver issues

You gotta be fucking kidding me - it's pretty much exactly that. Linux wireless has had to historically jump through hoops to get any broad-based wireless-device support at all. Loading binary blobs with god-knows-what in them, even wrapping actual windows dlls - all because bloody corporations and their stupid, misdirected IP greed kept interfaces and specs tightly under wraps. Hardware vendors, not Microsoft write drivers for windows, in general.

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Re: He's right about hardware and driver issues

Marcus, if nobody's using it, then it's not a success! It may be to you a technical success (it works, to your satisfaction), but it's not a market success. Linus simply recognizes that and concentrates on server-side issues, since Linux is a huge success there. Hmmm, no sound, video, or WiFi to worry about on servers, lots of disks and RAID arrays which it handles really well.

Patents do not lead to bad code; that's a cop-out. Bad coding leads to bad code. And while the Windows XP/7 kernel is by no means free, it does permit free code to run on it, and lots does. It's a more open environment than the Mac, except for that BSD emulator layer which hides most of the Mac-ish-ness. Don't get me started on IOS or Win-RT though; those really are evil.

The Mac's advantage is that the hardware is bundled, so it doesn't need as many drivers as Windows or Linux has. Windows just gets more support from vendors so the drivers work better, and so as an end user, it's far easier to get running.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: He's right about hardware and driver issues

"all because bloody corporations and their stupid, misdirected IP greed kept interfaces and specs tightly under wraps. Hardware vendors, not Microsoft write drivers for windows, in general."

Presumably, you're blissfully unaware of the regulatory horror of giving mass open access to reconfigurable software radio transceivers, even of very low power.

Nice frothing rant, but as with many things in life, it's just not that simple.

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Windows isn't all that if you install it yourself on a laptop

For folks pointing out issues with drivers on laptops in particular, doing an OS install of Windows on a laptop from base media is rarely a walk in the park. In my experience, laptops have historically been the biggest offenders for having odd-ball, even completely specific hardware for which you need to obtain the driver *from the laptop vendor*. On such systems, Windows only works "out of the box" when it comes pre-installed (or primed in a way that it will complete the install off a disk that includes the needed drivers). Otherwise, you need to go trawling the internet looking the right driver download.

Yes, in such cases you'll often struggle to find a Linux driver for the same devices. You'll often also struggle to find drivers for older Windows OSes (even XP at this point, for new laptops), as well as Mac OS compatible drivers if it's not actually a Mac laptop.

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Vic
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Re: Windows isn't all that if you install it yourself on a laptop

> completely specific hardware for which you need to obtain the driver *from the laptop vendor*

I've had Sony Vaios in for repair where even the driver that Sony's site claimed was for that machine would not work...

> Yes, in such cases you'll often struggle to find a Linux driver for the same devices

That's not been my experience for a very long time.

Vic.

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I've been using Linux since the mid-90s

And I have been using Macs since 1984.

And I have been using Windows since Windows 2.0 (ick)

And I have to say he is right.

I don't want to be able to agree with him.

I really don't.

I make my living with Linux and for what we use it for, its hard to beat, but we develop on a Windows desktop because it is far less hassle, and at home I use both Mac and Windows for desktop environments, but I favor the Mac because it can run so much of my OSS (fink project) and because it is so simple to launch Linux VMs.

I kept hoping the Apple's MkLinux would develop into the next Mac platform, but the acquisition of Next ended that.

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Happy

Maybe more people think along lines of: linux is for people with nothing else better to do?

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Trollface

Spoken like a true liberal arts student.

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Anonymous Coward

Given how often I've found myself swearing at computers running MacOS X and Windows, I find that statement more true of those OSes than Linux.

Or to put it more truthfully. All OSes have a certain element of expense to them. Some in money, some in time. Linux is almost always vastly more expense time-wise.

I've got an Intel IPW2945ABG wireless card that neither Windows 2000 nor Windows XP will even acknowledge exists. Drivers from Intel's official site refuse to see it. Yet, any Linux distribution works with it no questions asked.

I've got a networked HP printer/scanner multi-function device, and a USB Prolific PL2303 USB-RS232 adaptor, neither of which MacOS X 10.6 will have anything to do with. Yet Windows and Linux talk to both just fine.

Yes, Linux takes some time to set up, but in my experience it's a set once and forget. Not set, have an update "un-set", re-set, have another "update" un-set, swear a few times then re-set again… then have the OS spit the dummy on you and force you to blow away the whole profile and start again. This is without discussing the insufferable lack of flexibility these modern incarnations of Windows, and to a lesser extent, MacOS X.

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Silver badge

I must say from the problems he's describing it sounds to me like he never learned to set up a Linux desktop properly. That or he's been using Ubuntu (which, in my experience, is impossible to set up properly). All the things he listed as desktop Linux problems (suspend, wifi, and audio problems, kernel recompiling, graphics drivers) have been non-issues for me for years with Debian. Wifi just works, audio just works, I've not had problems with suspending or resuming in probably seven or eight years, I don't even remember the last time I recompiled a kernel, and the newest AMD graphics drivers are as easy to install in Linux as on Windows (I haven't used nVidia in quite a while).

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Linux

He's just an idiot

ALL of the things he's talking about have been non-issues for me for years.

The whole reason I switched to Ubuntu 6+ years ago is that it "just worked" with a random company laptop.

The advantage that a Mac as a product is that it comes in a ready to consume package. It's like a machine you might buy from Dell or Sun. You expect that the basics are already covered.

Get beyond that and there's no advantage. Buy something without a fruity logo and you're on your own.

It's probably been 10 years since I compiled a kernel. The thing is modular. Even if I wanted to rebuild a driver, it would still just be that driver.

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Anonymous Coward

Agree

As someone with CS and EE degrees who was using Linux on my primary computer long before its 1.0 release (no GUI), I agree completely.

I tried to switch to Linux ~4 years ago and it was an abject failure. All of my hardware was functional but Ubuntu's default GUI was horrible. First I tried to dock the task bar to the left, as I prefer it, which caused it to be un-resizeable and only display part of the first letter of each window title, rendering it absolutely unusable. Then I set up my virtual desktops and found out that the default IM program opened new windows on essentially random desktops (and notified me of new messages basically at random), making THAT unusable. But the final straw was using the Ubuntu installer for Google Earth on a bone stock version of Ubuntu that it was designed for and having that not work for myriad reasons. As much as Linux users like to crow about their package installers and having an "App Store" long before anybody else, if you can't reliably download and run software that isn't part of the package installer, then what's the point of an operating system? And that's without getting into niggling issues like fonts and font rendering being very noticeably inferior, and the (at the time) nonsensical UI layout--why is there a toolbar (task bar) at the bottom, plus a menu bar at the top, plus a menu bar for every damn window? Why can every other GUI make do with at least one less bar?

Anyway, been using OS X for my scientific computing/development work for the last 4 years and I'm still in love with it.

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Linux

Well this is a funny bit of timing.

For years, the Windows Trolls have been trying to trash every new release of Ubuntu claiming that it will break your wireless and eat your cat. Now after all of these years I have managed to experience such an OS update.

Yes. An OS update finally managed to trash my wireless. (Although the cat is fine)

Guess what? It was MacOS.

HA!

...as far as the futzing goes: It sound entirely self inflicted. If you want to futz, you can find something to futz with. It's not the necessity that he wants to make it out to be.

Real Unix users are actually quite lazy.

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FAIL

Old News

Oh please, give it a rest, Miquel is the flop, who wants Mono? Nobody, his major product is a huge flop. How do we define "Desktop Linux" do we include ChromeOS? Android? because you know Adroid's doing ok and Gnome doesn't look like a Fisher Price interface now any more. Ubuntu is taking off in a big way, Steam on Linux has almost equalled 3 years of Steam on Mac usage in 3 months.

Stop trauling old news to stir trouble, it's dull, it's boring, it's obvious and most importantly it's very poor journalism.

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De Icaza distorted US only view

It is obvious that Miguel De Icaza is very upset that the Linux development community - and that includes many large industries as well as corporations like IBM, Oracle and others, did not follow his lead into adopting many Microsoft patent encumbered software technologies like Mono, Moonlight and C#.

In regard the Linux desktop being a "Cherbnobyl fail", he maybe partly right - acept for use of word fail - in that the Linux desktop has not garnered a significant percentage of the general PC desktop use - in the USA - and a few other places as he and many of the Linux ecosystem would have liked.

However he is absolutely wrong and off base on this aspect of Linux desktop use in regard many other continents and countries of the world, even thought Mr. De Icaza and so many other North Americans (USA really) think - by self deception - that the rest of the two hundred plus countries and territories in this world do not count or are of no consequence. Several European Union countries and the EU overall , Brazil and other countries in South and Central American, Vietnam, much of the Chinese communist central government , even little South Africa have adopted and are implementing Linux with what-ever desktop - primarily KDE - as the formal standard.

Therefore Mr. De Icaza can be best described as delusional.

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Linux

Apples and Oranges?

How Icaza be taken seriously on this? It's utterly daft trying to compare the experience of using the hardware and software developed by Apple to be completely compatible with each other to people using linux on everything from phones to rasberry pi to HPC clusters to grandma's laptop? Apple has nearly complete control over their entire ecosystem to the point that if you want to run their software, you need their hardware (pretty much anyway). That makes it a lot easier for them to control the experience from the perspective of the person using it.

On the other hand, getting your drivers to work with every piece of hardware in existance is no small task. Running linux on the desktop properly requires a bit of diligence in hardware selection. As always, you have to pick your battles. You can spend more money to purchase an Apple machine and know it's just going to work (again, mostly), or you can spend next to nothing, ensure what you want to run Linux on is well supported and again, it's just going to work (once again, mostly).

All desktop systems are to some degree a measure of "Semper In Excretio, Solum Profundum Variat." They are all irritating in one regard or another. Pick the system that annoys YOU the least. If you don't mind paying for an Apple machine and don't mind their closed-system mentality, then go for it. If you want to get use out of pretty much any piece of hardware, with or without some level of difficulty depending on how well supported it is under Linux, you probably can (other than bleeding edge). You either spend your time up front or your money.

At least when Linus Torvalds rants, it is because he is passionate about the work he does. And that said, him calling Gnome a wreck a while back tends to make me think this is a bit of urinary olympics more than an actual appraisal.

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Wha?

21:02:28 up 171 days, 7:14, 6 users, load average: 0.52, 0.40, 0.44

Running ubuntu with ksplice on dell latidute, camera, microfone, wireless, dual screen, bluetooth, audio, e-sata all working since the day of the install. I do everything on it from writing bash scripts to streaming videos to my ps3.

Ubuntu just works, its userfriendly, and you get your day to day tasks done without any pain.

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Vic
Silver badge

Re: Wha?

> 21:02:28 up 171 days, 7:14, 6 users, load average: 0.52, 0.40, 0.44

[root@hobgoblin ~]# uptime

21:01:30 up 738 days, 4:31, 8 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

[root@goliath ~]# uptime

21:02:37 up 726 days, 8:32, 8 users, load average: 0.18, 0.22, 0.24

:-)

Vic.

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Meh

Strengths & weaknesses

Have been using UNIX from old Sco Sys V days, linux beta etc but have also used all other OS's (sheesh even dreaded OS/2) in a number of different capacities and situations but to me Linux on the desktop comes down to these major strengths & weaknesses:

Strength: Linux is so amazingly configurable

Weakness: Linux is so amazingly configurable

Simple as that. For those reasons above I doubt you will see "Linux on every desktop" as was the byline of a number of major Comp mags in the 90's when RedHat kicked off in earnest.

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Linux

Go fix W8 & leave (GNU)/Linux alone!

Bye Miguel De Icaza. Go ahead and let the door hit you on the way out. If you need a "boot to the head" I'm certain there'd be no shortage of volunteers!

A decent Linux based distro... (MEPIS in this case) was so "hard to use" my Mother Joy used Linux for over 6 years passing before her time @ 81. After I installed MEPIS 6 she REFUSED to use Windows after only a week. Still point & click, but NO DEFRAGGING (come on M$ - update for the current millennium!); free & useful software w/o the garbageware; no need for endless "free" or "cheap" utilities to add functionality that M$ doesn't provide, removed (TCP/IP printing with less than "Pro"!) , or for fixing stuff (REGISTRY) that other software broke; and really simple, painless updates w/o multiple reboots. Sometimes she liked to wait for an explanation of what they were for, but was tickled pink that they'd take place in the background while writing a letter, updating a spreadsheet, surfing the web, AND playing LOTS of Patience (wearing out the left mouse button yearly). She was definitely no "power user", but when her baby sister (20 years younger) was sending infected emails my aunt's technician really appreciated the info Joy pasted into the reply as CLAM caught them when the paid Windows AV missed and couldn't have fixed the infections (multiple) for weeks! Rock steady, easy to use, and choices far beyond need, and a patient, helpful forum, what's not to like?

Sometimes RTFM is NOT a good solution as they can be clear a mud. Many forums can be abusive to the newby - but I haven't seen that with MEPIS/AntiX. Perhaps Mint is similar, (though admittedly Mint software tends to be more current), Ubuntu forums OTOH...

All that's necessary is a willingness to learn - required by OSX, Win, BSD, Linux, Android, or whatever! BTW, I don't recommend Ubuntu nowadays - they're too much about profit and shooting their own foot. Mint is a nice choice, MEPIS for stable, SUSE for an Enterprise friendly, specialized distros for musicians, Apple if you don't mind $pending in the walled garden, Win for favorite/required apps, etc. - choice is good! ;-)

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WTF?

Glorious to see how quickly the comment thread goes off the rails

I see the missiles have started raining down. So let's see if I can play referee for a moment.

- Miguel de Icaza is/is not a talented developer; is/is not the bees knees. Referee says: irrelevant.

- Mac OS X is easy to use, and provides lots of "it just works" sensations along with the warm glow of UNIX. Referee says: damn right it does, but for the simple reason that the hardware is a closed system, and you are paying a premium for the experience. That's Apple's MO, for good or bad.

- Desktop Linux doesn't come close to the Mac OS experience. Referee says, WTF should it? It's nothing short of a miracle that it comes remotely as close as it does: the hardware is random (the combinations in the PC universe are orders of magnitude more than in the generations of Mac), there is no single entity in control, and you are not paying a premium for the offering.

Windows works well on modern hardware because the WHDC group at MSFT works with hardware vendors to make sure that their kit plays nice. Want to join our party? Then you play by these rules. Linux doesn't have that. Perhaps it should.

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Thumb Up

Sadly, he's right

I have used various forms of Unix as my main OS almost all of my computing life. After I left uni, I briefly ran MS-DOS 3.1 on an IBM PC but as soon as I had a 286-based machine I moved back to Unix and have stuck with it through Coheren't, Minix, ESIX SYSVR4, Solaris, Linux (starting before Slackware was even thought of), OpenBSD (for a firewall) and BSD-based MacOS X. I am completely in favour of the simplicity of design of Unix and also the broad aims and ethos of open source.

I am even typing this on a Linux laptop but I cannot help but agree that the whole experience of using MacOS (I also have a MacBook Pro) is much more pleasant. I bought my non-techie wife a Mac and she loves it. I didn't even consider giving her a Linux laptop. Linux has never been driven by usability or attractiveness and it shows.

I still use a bash shell and vi almost daily but if I want a graphical OS I usually use MacOS these days.

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Anonymous Coward

I have just read all the comments... please could somebody murder me I have lost the will to live.

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Holmes

Clearly you are a Win/Apple user - otherwise you would be able to murder yourself.

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linux - oh please

I'm trying to be fair here, but Ubuntu is not the only version of linux. The people who support gento seem to think that editing your /etc files every time you upgrade is user friendly. At the point where they moved all the etc files, I gave up upgrading it. Eventually the box died and I got someone to install ubuntu.from CD.

Which gets very upset if you try to install it without a network connection. And I mean very.

Next I wanted to install Adobe flash and some microsoft fonts for my x-sessions.

There's a bug. The workround is incredibly difficult to find and then perform. That at least gets me the fonts. But now, every day it complains that it can't install adobe flash. Apparently there's a fix for that. In the next or next + 1 major update of Ubuntu. And don't tell me I don't need flash. Whether or not I do, I can't stop that window popping up daily. This is the typical patronising attitude of computers - you can't have this, and I'm going to keep telling you you can't have this just because you asked for it.

And the authors of the ubuntu desktop appear to think that bright orange is a restful colour. Can I find a blue-ish theme? No I can't. OK, maybe I can edit things manually (easy enough in windows).

No.

I have to install another config tool which spends half its time printing strange and incomprehensible messages on the console about unavailable widgets. And if I hunt hard, there's a whole load of incomprehensible options you can change manually - and then hope. You don't get a nice little window which will show you the effects of what you're changing before you decide that's what you want.

The linux desktop experience has some way to go before it's as easy to set things to the way you want as windows is

And don't get all snooty and say it's all on the network. I shouldn't have to go look on the network to make the visual appearance at least comfortable , and, when I was installing it, the only reason I could look look on the network was I was at work.

One way linux does match windows is in the ability of the developers to make arbitrary decisions and enfore con people "just because". Why shouldn't I have a screen savers? Because the devs said I couldn't. Yet another look up on the network, install, and do strange and incomprehensible changes. OK they work, but it's not the sort of thing that makes me feel comfortable.

Windows may be evil and the command line may suck, and it probably has bad things wrong with it. But so does linux.

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Anonymous Coward

I hear ya.

Thought I was clever saving a few bucks buying an Ubuntu lappy. Subjected myself to years of misery, still waiting for it to die so I have a genuine excuse to replace it

No new software works first time. The expert instructions for fixing things up are buried in a 100 page discussion forum topic and were written by someone with the oh so authoritative handle of "psychocat" - if I post a question, will you promise not to hack me?

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Mushroom

Speaking of Chernobylesque Fails...

IE 10 preparation update KB 2670838 BSOD.

https://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/microsoft-pushes-another-botched-automatic-update-213802

Hardware affected:

HP, Dell, Sony, Compaq, Gateway, and Lenovo computers running GeForce, Radeon, Intel, and AMD graphics chips, among others.

Microsoft, covering its ass for lacking a testing department that shows up to work to do the testing required, sez:

Microsoft is aware of an issue some customers are experiencing when installing KB2670838 on certain laptop systems with hybrid graphics. We are looking into the situation and are considering blocking the update for systems that could be affected. Customers who are experiencing issues on systems that already have installed the update should consider uninstalling KB2670838.

Sadly, this is more the norm than the exception for Microsoft Updates. So when we speak of "it just works" maybe in Microsoft's case we should restate that as: "it just breaks."

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Speaking of Chernobylesque Fails...

"Sadly, this is more the norm than the exception for Microsoft Updates" - actually its exceedingly rare for Microsoft updates to cause any sort of crash or system failure. I can't recall any others.

Of the '5' previous issues mentioned in the link, one effects only 'Turbo tax', one is by design (all keyboard layout files need to be present), #3 isn't an issue at all, #4 is a list of issues fixed by an update, #5 is a minor issue that effected font rendering for a few obscure fonts. Hardly earth shattering stuff.

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No - Gnome is the Chernobyl of fail - always has been

It is Gnome that is unusable substandard crap, not the Linux desktop.

KDE is by far the most useful desktop I have used for any os.

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Clerk

Time for Miguel just to go quietly away.

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Megaphone

Bit late to the party

Yeah, we've been aware of this since day one.

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Pirate

I can empathize to some extent what Miguel is saying. Maybe a few months ago or so I noticed there was an update to pulse audio so just like with any other update I installed it. After that I noticed that whatever program I had open would lock the audio resource. Example. Say I was listening to some music on Banshee and decided to pause it and open up a youtube video. There would be no sound in the youtube video until I exited out of Banshee. So I decided to completely reinstall Mint 13 (12.04 LTS) and unchecked and hid those pulse audio updates when they came up again in the update manager. After getting all of my apps back on I took a snapshot with REDO backup immediately incase anything went wrong again. So now without those pulse updates everything is as it should be but frankly it's shitty that a simple supposedly stable update can botch a system. Now in regards to wifi drivers the first version of ubuntu I tried was 9.04 and i couldn't connect to wifi at all until I tried out 10.04 which fixed it. So yeah when it comes to linux it really depends on having the right kernel version for your hardware. Before I reinstalled this system I tried updating the kernel to 3.7 from 3.2 and it totally botched my catalyst drivers. So there is some merit to what Miguel is saying but the geek in me will always be a Linux user even when problems do arise. My goal is to one day be a linux admin so a few snags along the way isn't going to slow me down.

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