back to article PM resigns as Britain votes to leave EU

The UK has voted to leave the European Union, confounding the polls, the "experts" and the British establishment in the biggest turnout for a vote here in 24 years. Prime Minister David Cameron announced his resignation at 8:30am this morning. The count stands at 51.9 per cent Leave, and 48.1 per cent remain – and more than a …

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Re: So then

"and that if we want laws our elected government will have to pass them?"

Our elected government already had to pass them.

And - contrary to myth - it had the option of not doing so. It was simply convenient to blame the EU when passing laws which were known to be unpopular with the electorate - in some cases EU laws only put on the books because the UK insisted on them.

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Unhappy

On days like today...

I'd look to Lester Haines to write something to cheer me up.

Lester, I miss you. Rest in peace in whichever afterlife you've ended up.

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Re: On days like today...

Seconded.

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Re: On days like today...

Thirded.. I shall miss his post pub nosh recipes..

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Re: On days like today...

"Lester, I miss you. Rest in peace in whichever afterlife you've ended up."

Hopefully one where wings are compulsory and there's no FAA deciding whether you can fly or not.

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Re: On days like today...

<krsssht>This is Cadet Angel Haines requesting a fly-by<kshhrt>

<Tower (of St Peter)>Negative ghost-rider, the pattern is f....<BOOOOOOOOM!>

Lol

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WTF?

Gutted

Half my family live and work in Europe and more than half of my friends here in Brighton are Europeans living & working here, although they are at least all married to UK citizens these days so they won't have to leave.

It has put a massive question over my retirement plan, which was to be euthanisia in Belgium!

The EU's biggest effect on my life has been all the policies which have protected us from our own politicians and corporations trying to milk us as product. So I look forward to a future where the leaders of our faux democracy are now free to sell us (the citizens) down the river in the name of corporate profits & backhanders.

The irony is that any negative economic effects will be most felt by the idiots who thought leaving was going to fix a single thing that they care about.

My daily mail reading (and consequently brexit voting) mother is under the impression that she will suddenly be able to get an appointment for her hip in weeks instead of months.

Still at least we now have our sovereignty.

Excellent AA Gill article here - http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aa-gill-argues-the-case-against-brexit-kmnp83zrt

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Gutted

Funnily enough, "selling us (the citizens) down the river in the name of corporate profits & backhanders" is exactly what the EU is doing to us in France, Belgium, Spain etc.

But maybe this isn't (well, wasn't, now) the case in the UK due to your particular status within the EU, I honestly don't know.

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Holmes

@AC re "But maybe this isn't (well, wasn't, now) the case in the UK"

It was.

But I think it's fair to characterise this whole referendum as a choice between which particular group of unfettered global capitalists you want to get raped by. The EU's favouring of TTIP suggests that they are no better friend of the poor or the working majority than those carrying the flag for "de-regulation", AKA poorer workers' rights and a privatised health service.

May the Lord have mercy on our souls.

Or perhaps - may the Lord have mercy on arseholes.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Gutted

You are really not well informed. Gee don't know where to begin to rip your statement apart. Faux democracy in the UK? Yes you might be right but the EU doesn't elect their leaders, what you call that uhmm I'm split between dictatorship and plutocracy.

"...are now free to sell us (the citizens) down the river in the name of corporate profits & backhanders" You really don't know how the EU works do you? I suggest you get informed and start with TTIP. Oh sorry that is a secret trade agreement that we are not allowed to know what the EU is trading on our behalf. Have you ever heard of lobbying? Do you know who does the most lobbying in the EU? Corporations, and they ain't lobbying to give you a pay rise?

By the way nothing will change for you or your European friends, immigration wasn't invented by the EU.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Gutted

I used to work in USA, and although my company wanted to sponsor me for a green card there was no way I could stay. All of my USAian colleagues spent their entire working life afraid. I worked for the same company in both the US and back in blighty there were some remarkable differences between the contracts

UK

3 months notice

Redundancy package

4 weeks holiday (inc national hols)

Sick pay

US

2 weeks notice

16 days holiday (inc national hols)

no redundancy

max of 3 days sick pay

When the company was suffering some financial difficulties a worldwide meeting was held where they stated that as a cost reduction method all north american workers would have a 2 week furlough - which is basically a forced unpaid leave. There was a lot of muttering in the Boston meeting room I was in & then someone said "er can I ask why it is only the US workers who have to take the furlough?" (we had offices all over the world many of which are not renowned for workers rights). In every other country we operated in it was breach of contract.

It is the EU which has been defending us from the worst of corporate exploitation. In part I think due to proportional representation and more politically engaged citizens and of course a history of socialist values and work life balance.

Even if whatever bunch of British public schoolboys (yes, it is our government that is run by more out of touch elitist pricks than any other in Europe) don't fully embrace the "people are product" doctrine of the US, they'll have a lot less power to defend against the push.

At least European citizens demonstrate against corporate pushes like TTIP and increase in working hours etc.. British citizens will believe anything some gurning prick will tell them if it is printed in the scum rags like The Sun & The Mail and roll over and take it.

R.I.P. Jo Cox

R.I.P Great Britain

welcome to little England

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Re: @AC re "But maybe this isn't (well, wasn't, now) the case in the UK"

The difference being that the vast majority of EU countries have a more democratic system and a better educated, more engaged populace. Making it much harder for their leaders to get away with that crap.

We, on the other hand have a hilarious cartoon democracy giving us an illusion of any choice or say. Your MP doesn't reflect your viewpoint in parliament, they follow the whip on anything remotely important and fuck what you or the majority in your constituency want (which of course they never ask you anyway - you can write to your MP but 5 out of the 6 times I have done so I received a stock letter - twice about completely different subjects - yay!)

I haven't seen many UK based anti TTIP protests in the UK and when you do they are more general anti-globalisation protests carried out by people who all look completely anti-establishment and consequently of zero value to the middle class who assume they are talking bollocks or want to burn their garden sheds (full disclosure, I have a garden shed)

I voted remain because for the last 20 years we have been relying on the good citizens of the EU to defend us from exploitation. We just kissed their protection goodbye.

I am guessing UK citizens privacy will be the first casualty, followed by HRC, then working time directive.

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Re: Gutted

@ AC "You are really not well informed. Gee don't know where to begin to rip your statement apart."

I am actually completely aware of all of your points, but you fail to see the nuances of how the democracy & better engagement of the individual nations that make up the EU have an effect on that un-elected body - it is the citizens of the individual countries who are engaged enough to vote and protest in proportionally represented parliaments that temper the worst excesses of the politicians and corporations. We have just made that our responsibility. How many Leave voters are going to get off their arses to defend against TTIP?

I suspect that we'll be seeing the relaxing of regulations requested by the US corporations in TTIP the second we have left the EU as a way to try to rescue our fucked economy.

see my post above http://forums.theregister.co.uk/user/9612/

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Gutted

It is the EU which has been defending us from the worst of corporate exploitation.

No, it isn't. The rules for things like vacation, redundancy, sick pay etc. are not set by the EU. The UK has much better employement protection law than many other EU countries (and I speak as a UK citizen who lives elsewhere in the EU).

yes, it is our government that is run by more out of touch elitist pricks than any other in Europe

Now there you really haven't a clue. Ever heard of the French "École nationale d'administration"? It's basically a super-elitist public school for politicians. If you aren't an "énarque" you have little hope of getting into power in government. It has interesting little rules, for example all graduates have the right to use the familiar "tu" form to any other graduate, even to the President. Not so much an old school tie as a complete old school 3-piece suit with cravat and overcoat.

Anyway, what's the problem with "élitism"? Don't you want people who are good at something to be in charge? Why is it OK to celebrate the elite in sport, or music, but not in intellectual pursuits? Just sour grapes?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Gutted

"No, it isn't. The rules for things like vacation, redundancy, sick pay etc. are not set by the EU. The UK has much better employement protection law than many other EU countries (and I speak as a UK citizen who lives elsewhere in the EU)."

The minimums are set by Directive 2003/88/EC 2003 - just saying

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Re: Gutted

"4 weeks holiday (inc national hols)"

Actually it's 5.6 weeks annual holiday (including national holidays) that we're guaranteed thanks to those EU regulations.

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Re: Gutted

"I suspect that we'll be seeing the relaxing of regulations requested by the US corporations in TTIP the second we have left the EU as a way to try to rescue our fucked economy."

Yes, I also think that will be one of the first results. We have a "special relationship" with the USA and the UK now needs to hurriedly start setting up new trade agreements. Article 50 has to be invoked sometime over the next few months then there's a maximum of two years to negotiate the exit from the EU. That's no time at all in terms of negotiating trade treaties. The US will know this so we'll almost certainly end up with a TTIP agreement with no time or real economic power to curb the worst of it. And after 40 years in the EU I doubt the Commonwealth countries will clamouring to offer us any favoured trade deals.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Gutted

well I do know that my Brother who has lived in Belgium for 15 years and before that spain & before that Germany is Gutted.

My father who has lived in France for 20 years is not only gutted but fucking terrified. He only got half pension anyway as he retired when living in Australia. It is his status and most importantly at 80 years old, healthcare, that are scaring the shit out of him.

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Re: Gutted

My father who has lived in France for 20 years is not only gutted but fucking terrified.

He shouldn't be. After 20 years he's probably eligible for French citizenship if he wants it (assuming he's integrated, speaks French, etc.) but in any case he'll be covered by all the usual guarantees of "acquired rights" (see the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, for example, which says that ending a treaty doesn't affect prior rights granted under that treaty). Even if France stops accepting UK citizens as automatic residents, people who are already established residents have no need to panic.

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Anonymous Coward

Don't underestimate the Brits!

European citizens can demonstrate all they like against TTIP, but if the unelected prics in Europe decide to go ahead with TTIP there is nothing European citizens can do. You cannot remove the unelected with a vote can you.

Don't underestimate the Brits they have just had the courage to vote out, despite all the negative propaganda by the "Remain Ignorant" campaign, and hopefully lead the rest of Europeans to dismantle what the Nazis started.

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Re: Don't underestimate the Brits!

eh? Since both Labour & Conservative supported TTIP and referendum's aren't exactly a common thing in the UK what opportunity do you think these plucky isolationists will have to reject a hastily constructed one sided US trade deal?

Please tell me?

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Re: Gutted

Article 50 doesn't have to implemented until the UK is good and ready for it.

All the UK has said yesterday is that it wants to leave the EU. No schedule was set.

The UK could spend a year or two (or three or four) planning and negotiating for separation and then initiate Article 50 with the expectation that the process would run smoother that way.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Don't underestimate the Brits!

Scotland voted overwhelmingly to Remain so it's not The Brits - just the English.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Don't underestimate the Brits!

Actually European protests and petitions have already done a lot to put TTIP under threat, whereas the UK will now certainly be subject to a new trade agreement with the US which we have zero say in and no power whatsoever to influence. Also since we are now about to lose AAA status our government will have no bargaining power in the treaty.

Welcome to the 51st State

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Re: Gutted

When I saw the projected result early this morning, after making sure that I hadn't misread it, I felt sick. I still feel sick. And very sad. It's not easy to be rejected by the people of your own country.

Britain joined when I was 9 years old. I've grown up with the European project as it evolved into a single market and a free movement area. For the past 20 years I've exercised my right to live and work in another member country.

I never thought I'd see the day when my own countryfolk would smash it up. And for what? To spite foreigners?

-A.

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Re: Gutted

I've grown up with the European project as it evolved into a single market and a free movement area. For the past 20 years I've exercised my right to live and work in another member country.

Me too, and if I'd had the vote that Cameron promised me when he was elected I'd still have used it to vote "Leave".

And for what? To spite foreigners?

For some, maybe. For me it's because the EU has lost its way and has no justification for existing in its present form. It's a train heading for a cliff, and the drivers show no sign of even wanting to open their eyes to look. Brexit will hurt, but not half as much as Remain would have done in 10-15 years time when the crash happens. Maybe Brexit will be the wakeup call the eurocrats need, somehow I doubt it.

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Happy

Re: Don't underestimate the Brits!

"but if the unelected prics in Europe decide to go ahead with TTIP there is nothing European citizens can do."

It's the MEPs I would count on, and they are elected. Unfortunately the Brits have been a bit lazy in those elections (not alone in that). Incidentally Cameron has a voice too, and is elected. Voice enough to pull Britain out of the EU.

As for me, I wish Europe all the best, and that includes Britain the way I see it. The world is a work in progress as before.

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Re: Gutted

Name any country that isn't be sold down the river for the corporates or, soon will be?

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Re: Gutted

re: "The UK has much better employment protection law than many other EU countries (and I speak as a UK citizen who lives elsewhere in the EU)."

I didn't respond to this earlier because I had no idea of the veracity of your statement. However, coincidental or made up as it might sound, my other half is an employment law consultant for a global financial company operating in every market on earth and is responsible for ensuring compliance throughout the EU and Asia. So this evening I asked her about this.

She just about managed to to articulate "bollocks!" through surprised laughter.

As always it is not black and white she explained, as we waited for the bus. The state of employee protections throughout the EU depends of the maturity of any given nation state. So certain member states haven't yet been able to implement all of the EU directives because such things take time.

However If you compare to France, Germany and other longer term members of the EU, the UK is by no means the leader in this regard. The UK vigorously opposed the EU working time directive initially and only eventually partially implemented it reluctantly.

Even now, although complying in many aspects they refuse to implement the investigatory powers and remedial actions covered by the directive.

I am paraphrasing what she said and recounting it after several drinks with some of our resident European friends at a local french jazz bar but I'm very confident you are wrong.

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Re: Gutted

@Mark85 "Name any country that isn't be sold down the river for the corporates or, soon will be?"

So because it will probably happen eventually, we shouldn't bother trying to defend against it?

The rest of the EU will probably now avoid the very worst parts of TTIP, at least the negotiations have been dragged kicking and screaming into the light to face public scrutiny thanks to the protests of the citizens of the member states.

We in the UK however can be prepared to have several hundred carcinogenic and potentially toxic chemicals currently banned from use in the EU re-introduced to manufacturing and food processing to ease trade between the UK and US with absolutely no opportunity to oppose it.

We'll likely also have several health & safety regulations reduced or removed to "ease trade" with the US. The deaths and ill health of ourselves and our children are simply statistics to these people. The combined strength of the EU citizens (not the EU parliaments) was our only defence especially since both Labour and the Conservatives are in favour of the TTIP.

So far everybody I have actually spoken to who voted Leave had no idea how our own democracy worked, let alone how the EU affected it and have never heard of the Working time directive or TTIP.

They just go on about the housing crisis or "sovereignty". When I ask what the hell the EU has to do with the housing crisis it then comes back to.... guess what? Immigrants! We don't have room for immigrants.

We might actually have the room for immigrants if we threw out all the fuck wits who would rather read about the Kardashians than get an education.

PS. I'm a bit pissed now (not in the American sense, I've been fucking livid all day!)

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Re: Gutted

@graeme leggett

Eight hours later that appears to be wrong. The EU is saying, no need to wait until October, you've made your decision get on with the process.

No doubt the brexitters will be spinning this as EU sour grapes or vengeance. Realistically though the EU has no choice.

First financial stability for the rest the EU & actually the world relies on some predictability.

Secondly the EU now has to demonstrate to other nations right wing factions that there is a severe cost to leaving and that the EU's responsibility is to provide stability to its member states above defectors.

Don't expect the necessary ensuing trade deals with the EU to be particularly favourable to the UK.

[edit] Wow three in a row. I would be killed in certain areas of the net for such disgraceful behaviour!

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Re: Gutted

"Even if whatever bunch of British public schoolboys (yes, it is our government that is run by more out of touch elitist pricks than any other in Europe)"

Once upon a time we finally had a generation of grammar school politicians in power. They promptly pulled up the ladder behind them so are you surprised about what we have now?

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@janimal -- Re: Gutted

@Mark85 "Name any country that isn't be sold down the river for the corporates or, soon will be?"

So because it will probably happen eventually, we shouldn't bother trying to defend against it?

No... we should speak out against it. My point above is that is more widespread than most folks imagine. I, for one, have spoken out and suffered the repercussions. And yes, they are there. But the fact remains, it's an uphill battle by us troops in the trenches as we don't have the resources of the corporates. And no, I'm not going to stop speaking out.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Gutted

The EU is saying, no need to wait until October, you've made your decision get on with the process.

Has it escaped their notice that we've just voted to stop doing what the EU orders us to?

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Re: Gutted

"Even if France stops accepting UK citizens as automatic residents, people who are already established residents have no need to panic."

An established resident needs to speak the language and pass a culture test, the same as non-EU immigrants here in the UK do if they want to become permanent residents and eventually citizens.

There are 3-5 million retired brits living in France and Spain who can't pass either test.

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Re: Gutted

"Article 50 doesn't have to implemented until the UK is good and ready for it."

Given statements out of France and Germany, any foot dragging will result in article 7 being invoked.

As for all the statements of it taking at least 2 years, article 50 gives 2 years AT MOST for withdrawal, so it will be all hands to the pumps for a while.

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Re: Gutted

"more than half of my friends here in Brighton are Europeans living & working here"

A large chunk of those are working for American Express HQ in Brighton. Guess where that's going.

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Childcatcher

Backward not forward

Less than half the electorate voted to leave, with the voting age held at 18 (unlike 16 with the Scottish referendum) and apparently that is enough to force the UK to leave.

Looking at the demographics of the vote it would seem that the older the group the more likely the vote to leave, with the youngest groups voting to stay - pensioners, owning property outright, deciding to gamble on the future of the young. No one knows what is going to happen, so it is a complete gamble, especially with many not knowing if there is anything to gain.

One wonders what the result would be if it was held two years later.

It genuinely upsets me today that so many of my friends, who have lived and worked here for years are now facing the fact that the UK might decide they are no longer welcome, partly because they didn't get UK passports as they didn't need to.

NB - Although the worst aspect is the prospect of seeing Farage's smug face forever and the knowledge that now we "have control" the people going to take it aren't going to make things better.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Backward not forward

"[...] pensioners, owning property outright, deciding to gamble on the future of the young. "

Many pensioners remember the world wars - even if only by family history. They see a reasonably united Europe as being unlikely to go down the populist demagogue route of the 1930s.

I have been surprised at some of them who voted Leave - yet they hate the idea of a hard right or left wing Government. The Civil Partnership couple in particular do not seem to recognise that they are potentially supporting a trend towards their relationship being marginalised again.

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Anonymous Coward

"unlikely to go down the populist demagogue route of the 1930s"

Unlikely? 1930s Europe people were not savages. They were already "modern", "acculturated" people. Most of what makes European culture was already existing then. Yet it didn't hinder the tragedy. They listened to utter mad men promoting a reboot of the Roman Empire, and a Reich. And followed them in bloody horrible crimes and to self-destruction.

Are we sure 2030s Europe will be different? Le Pen is a nostalgic of Napoleon's France. Italy has still many politicians who believe Mussolini was a great leader... young people growing up in such an environment what will thing and do?

Older people should have understood it. It looks they forgot.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Backward not forward

"Less than half the electorate voted to leave"

Even less voted to remain. What was your point again?

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Trollface

English Independence vote in disguise

After the scottish referendum many people in England asked "why can't we vote to boot scotland out?" I reckon that's what this vote was really about, convincing them to have another vote and go for yes this time! :-p

On a more serious note, I was torn on this one.. heart was saying go (get rid of all those ridiculous EU laws), but the head was saying stay.. i.e don't screw our economy for the next 20 years while we go around trying to get new trade deals and the like.

I ended up voting to stay, and having seeing the congrats from the likes of Donald Trump, I'm off to dig my fallout shelter..with internet, beer fridge etc.. in fact I think I should just move to Germany, I can stay in the EU and still have some decent beer, though I might skip the currywurst

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Re: English Independence vote in disguise

Scotland are going to be in a difficult place now. They sought to seize domestic power from Westminster, but are they then prepared to surrender it to Brussels?

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Anonymous Coward

Nice

Second phase "withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights."

You stupid fucks.

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Re: Nice

On the plus side we'll be out of TTIP :)

On the negative side can you see any of our trough swilling leadership saying no to reducing our safety standards and regulations to US levels in the interests of their post parliamentary nest egg free trade?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Nice

Second phase "withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights."

No, the EHCR long predates the EU, and was constructed with UK help. The only change will be allowing the UK courts to rule on EHCR issues where they affect the UK, and not allowing them to be overruled by people with no stake in the issue.

You stupid fucks.

Well, if you don't like it you know where the door is.

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Re: Nice

"On the plus side we'll be out of TTIP :)"

Hah! You wish. TTIP is not a bilateral agreement between the EU and USA. It's a pan-Atlantic treaty and they want as many nations as possible in it, including us. But now we are just little old UK with little economic or political clout to use as negotiating tools. Trade treaties take years to negotiate and we have a maximum of 27 months to get some new UK ones in place of the EU ones we will out of by then. In particular, we need new treaties with the USA in that time because most of the existing ones are EU treaties which won't apply after the exit.

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Re: Nice

"On the plus side we'll be out of TTIP :)"

You are completely delusional. The UK was one of the greatest cheerleaders of TTIP in Europe, it was the other countries who were trying to put limitations on it. Now we are guaranteed to be subject to it as the US will make it a red line precondition for any trade deals we attempt to have with them.

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Re: Nice

"On the plus side we'll be out of TTIP"

It's the EU which has been holding the british government back from running headlong into signing it already.

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I just hope those who Voted Remain are happy with their decision in years to come, when they come to the realisation that everything they've been told may actually be total bullshit.

For starters, and it only took 2 hours, Farage said they couldn't promise that the promise they made for the magical £350 million they would save from EU membership would go to the NHS.

But hey! At least the lazy immigrants won't be coming here for much longer to take all the jobs you don't want. That's something :)

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