back to article We ain't afraid of no 'ghost user': Infosec world tells GCHQ to GTFO over privacy-busting proposals

Bruce Schneier, Richard Stallman and a host of western tech companies including Microsoft and WhatsApp are pushing back hard against GCHQ proposals that to add a "ghost user" to encrypted messaging services. The point of that "ghost user", as we reported back in 2018 when this was first floated in its current form, is to apply …

Page:

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

      The Bitter Sweet Truth is the likes of a GCHQ wants all your info, but they can't handle it, for a greater intelligence is needed to effectively deal with whole new worlds of completely novel and highly disruptive input/output.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

        And here's another Bitter Sweet Truth and strategic criticality for spooks and interdependent service providers to ruminate on.

        The longer they leave initial exploratory engagement with whole new worlds of completely novel and highly disruptive input/output via easily available host channels and virtual networks, the ever greater likelihood is that their participation and leadership in new avenues of future development be totally unnecessary, and at best, to be considered toxic and destructively counter-productive ...... and thus to be ignored and avoided.

        You pays your money, you makes your choice. Old Established FUD or NEUKlearer HyperRadioProACTive IT Systems for Future Operations and Current AIMissions? What's it to be there with particular and peculiar regard to that smashing clashing pair? The Red Pill or the Blue Book? :-)

        :-) Poe's Law Rules.:-)

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

          "Old Established FUD or NEUKlearer HyperRadioProACTive IT Systems for Future Operations and Current AIMissions?"

          What this boils down to is "Old FUD or Marketing Bullshit" ... which are one and the same.

          AI does not exist, at least not as far as engineering is concerned. It is a figment of the imagination of the marketards (and perhaps deluded conspiracy theorists). AI is vapo(u)rware at best.

          1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

            Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

            AI does not exist, at least not as far as engineering is concerned. It is a figment of the imagination of the marketards (and perhaps deluded conspiracy theorists). AI is vapo(u)rware at best. .... jake

            Everything you see and know of as being man made is the result of a figment of imagination, jake. And AI and IT can easily have one pondering on the true nature of virtual reality and discovering the secrets in its Almighty Remote Controller Use.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

              No, amfM. A Holley 650 is not now, and never has been, a figment of anybody's imagination. The Winnipeg Carburetor always was. Grok the difference?

              The true nature of virtual reality is to sell unnecessary technology to the rubes.

              There is no "Almighty Remote Controller Use" or any other cabal in this context.

              1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

                Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

                No, amfM. A Holley 650 is not now, and never has been, a figment of anybody's imagination. The Winnipeg Carburetor always was. Grok the difference? .... jake

                Yes, jake, I grok the difference. Do you see though, that the one is still the result of the other turned into a practical physical application?

                And we'll just have to fundamentally disagree on the other two assertions ....... The true nature of virtual reality is to sell unnecessary technology to the rubes.

                There is no "Almighty Remote Controller Use" or any other cabal in this context. ...... which are best considered and treated as chaff for sale to the masses and just about as effective as confetti is in disrupting a wedding party.

                1. jake Silver badge

                  Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

                  That word "figment" ... I don't think it means what you think it means.

                  Perhaps a new English to Martian phrasebook is in order? Your current edition appears to be b0rken.

                  Humans dreamed up the Marvel Universe, but that doesn't make it a reality. Pointing this out is hardly "chaff".

                  1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

                    Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

                    Humans dreamed up the Marvel Universe, but that doesn't make it a reality. Pointing this out is hardly "chaff". ...... jake

                    And what of those ready, willing and able and enabled to share and show it be disinformation and misinformation, jake, with chaff and vapourware being your brand of booty to fire in reply?

                    Do you think that be in any way effective and disruptive?

                    Can you accept as fact that they are not, and efforts at denial are futile and self-destructive and extremely revealing?

                    It's a great move and quantum leap forward into novel progress where such accommodations are exceedingly rewarding ...... and that can easily make them highly addictive and overwhelming.

                    1. jake Silver badge

                      Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

                      "efforts at denial are futile and self-destructive and extremely revealing?"

                      Wouldn't want your TRVTH questioned, now would we? Sounds like you're trying to start a religion, amfM.

                      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

                        Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

                        Wouldn't want your TRVTH questioned, now would we? Sounds like you're trying to start a religion, amfM. ..... jake

                        Quite the contrary, jake, for the more answers you have the bigger picture you see to know whether you be free of or held captive to an authoritarian regime of programs?

                        1. jake Silver badge

                          Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

                          But programs don't think, so how can they be an "authoritarian regime"? Shirley the concept is EOFed before it even gets off the ground?

                          1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

                            Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

                            But programs don't think, so how can they be an "authoritarian regime"? Shirley the concept is EOFed before it even gets off the ground? ..... jake

                            Programmers and Systems Analysts think ProgramMING, jake, and how IT and AI are to make Greater Good Use of the Virtual Machinery Infrastructure with World Wide Webbed Networks ........ which Channel of Information to and from, ideally, Secret Intelligence Sourced Services, with no one else really knowing about hardly any of what is ongoing, with that being quite normally until they figure things out for themselves or are advised of the situation as it would be impacting upon them and of which they should be aware.

                            Thus does such not permit Ignorance as a Defence for Inaction in a Vital Inquisition of a Virile Viral Acquisition.

                            And out in the Wild, amongst that which and/or those who know what they can now freely do with all of the tools made available to so very many by technology, is it easily overwhelming and sensibly realised an Almighty Gift ....... which may or may not be Fleeting whenever Yours to Exercise as One Pleases.

                            1. jake Silver badge

                              Re: If you want to stop terrorists, stop sending them money and weapons

                              I've been trying to parse yours, and from here it looks like you're drifting in the opposite direction to that which you were aiming at the beginning of this dialog. Any chance of a rephrase? (It's probably me, not you ... Martian syntax gives me a headache.)

                              1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

                                If you want to stop terrorists, start sending them money not weapons?*

                                I've been trying to parse yours, and from here it looks like you're drifting in the opposite direction to that which you were aiming at the beginning of this dialog. Any chance of a rephrase? (It's probably me, not you ... Martian syntax gives me a headache.) ... jake

                                I can certainly agree with you there, jake, that it is not me, for we are much further on into similar directions aimed at at the beginning of this dialogue and virtual operations?

                                * The smarter ones are easily bought off/out/in and pleased to be something completely different. The other ones though are the abiding problem which failed systems create to be continually dealt with ineffectively/ineffectually/badly.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fallacies on display...."point-to-point".....backdoors......"keeping us safe"....

    ....using facts not mentioned...

    ...notably that the "bad guys" are using their own ciphers BEFORE the message enters the channel

    ...notably that pre-agreed plain text messages can deliver unknown commands (even when plod is listening all the time)

    ...notably the time asymmetry favouring even poor enciphering by the "bad guys"

    ...notably that the "bad guys" aren't using point-to-point tools (no identifiable IP addresses or personal accounts...no "end" at either end)

    *

    .....and some of us have noticed that MOST of the recent outrages have been perpetrated by "individuals already known to the authorities". Keeping us safe?

  2. Esme

    I used to think the bods at GCHQ were at least competent, even if they were clearly short in the ethics department. But I'm erring towards thinking theyr'e plain stupid nowadays - they'd have to be to think that folks like the commentards here would be likely to change their minds on what is a clear-cut thing - all backdoors are security hazards, and therefore utterly undesirable in any encrypted form of communications. Given that it's pretty likely some GCHQ bods read El Reg - just quit with the stupidity, eh? Or I'll be asking my MP why we pay to have a spy organisation that clearly doesnt know what theyre doing, if what they say on matters like this is anything to go by!*

    *No, of course I don't expect them to actually be that incompetent. I actually think theyre arrogant enough to think that the rest of us are stupid. But I'm utterly pissed off at them for trying to treat the rest of us as fools as well as for their unethical behaviour.

  3. Aussie Doc
    Black Helicopters

    "...for example to stop terrorists."

    Phew!

    For a minute there I thought there was no chance of it being used for anything else.

    My tinfoil hat is just over here.

  4. Aussie Doc
    Pint

    Yeah, sure.

    Let's face it.

    It's all about stopping people from posting memes, isn't it.

    Must be, because I'm pretty sure it's not really about catching terrorists.

    /s

    Anyhoo, way past beer O'clock here in Oz.

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019