back to article Macs to Linux fans: Stop right there, Penguinista scum, that's not macOS. Go on, git outta here

The knickers of the Linux world have become ever so twisty over the past few days as Penguinistas fell foul of the security hardware in their pricey Apple hardware. Reports are coming in of Linux fans struggling to get their distribution of choice to install on the latest Cupertino cash cows with fingers pointed at the …

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    1. Not previously required

      Re: However, we can report that Ubuntu runs an absolute treat on a Dell XPS.

      Dell sell both Windows and Linux versions of their XPS laptops. I bought the Windows version and put Suse linux on as well. The only thing that doesn't work on the laptop in Linux is the fingerprint reader. I won't put it in the skip yet. The docking station is a PITA about turning the laptop on all the time. Dell seem very reluctant to support dual boot though. Minus one point to them. Still not going anywhere near a Mac!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: However, we can report that Ubuntu runs an absolute treat on a Dell XPS.

        >Suse linux on as well. The only thing that doesn't work on the laptop in Linux is the fingerprint reader.

        Suse Leap runs a conservative LTS kernel, perhaps you could try a later kernel* or Tumbleweed to see if the driver has been added or improved ?

        *http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard/x86_64/

        Don't own an XPS but hope it helps.

  1. BRYN

    According to OMG Ubuntu your not 100% correct

    https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/11/apple-t2-chip-cant-boot-linux

    Reported yesterday that it maybe/is possible to pay over the odds for the hardware and to run your free operating system on.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: According to OMG Ubuntu your not 100% correct

      That is mentioned in the article:

      At this point Penguinistas would expect to be able to reach for the Apple Startup Security Utility, which provides the option to boot with No Security. However, according to Apple, this option "does not enforce any requirements on the bootable OS".

      Obviously, this has its downsides, but if you're savvy enough to try to put Linux on a Mac, you should understand the implications.

      The problem is that, according to a posting on StackExchange, changing the Secure Boot option "makes no difference".

  2. Tom 7

    It is not my hardware after all

    and it never will be!

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    apple you dont own you rent

    If you thought you own apple hardware, your an idiot..

  4. 3man

    Old Air

    I shelled out for my first Mac a few years back, a Macbook Air with all the useful ports that Apple removed in the last few years. For what it was (a 2013 model) the price was pretty reasonable as well compared to similar choices. Once MacOS support is dropped along with firmware updates (prob in another 12-18 months or so) it will have a Linux distro of my choice installed on it as it's still mechanically sound and does everything I want / need.

    Can't help thinking that Apple have lost the plot with their decisions since then. I wouldn't touch the new Macbooks with a barge pole, regardless of how shiny they are.

  5. Flywheel
    Pint

    Chromebook + Gallium OS for meeeee

    If you want cheap and cheerful, and don't need blazing performance you could do a lot worse than a cheap Chromebook, purge Chrome and install Gallium OS on it. Works for me!

    1. Waseem Alkurdi

      Re: Chromebook + Gallium OS for meeeee

      And an SSD, in case *God forbid* it uses a hard disk! ^_^

      The build quality though. It, er, sucks.

  6. password1234567890

    To what end?

    We have 4 perfectly usable, yet neglected, 2009 era iMacs at the orifice but only two of them will update from 10.8.5 to el Capitain, updating to sierra, high sierra or mohave has been declared a hardware problem by the scumsucking corporates at Apple. This isn't an issue pour moi, because I prefer several linux distros and the gnome desktop to os x anyway. My only real option at this point to make these machines secure is to install linux, and it makes me wonder if this is part of Apple's current end-game, but to what end I don't know.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: To what end?

      Try this.

      Beware of later OS hardware requirements (i.e. bloat) slowing your machine down.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: To what end?

      What? You are calling out Apple because your 9 year machine is no longer being updated....

      Er... really?

  7. jms222

    Damned if they do

    We've had the same argument with PCs for years.

    Criticise them for the ease of having bootloader malware then when they do secure boot stuff to guard against it criticise them again.

    Consistency anybody ?

    You simply can't have both the ability to boot any OS that changes from week to week and security against bootloader malware.

    1. Updraft102

      Re: Damned if they do

      Criticise them for the ease of having bootloader malware then when they do secure boot stuff to guard against it criticise them again.

      Consistency anybody ?

      Why would you think it is the same individuals criticizing the lack of secure boot and the presence of secure boot? Some people think it's good, some people don't. The lack of consensus on the issue doesn't suggest that there's any inconsistency-- it just means people don't all hold the same opinion, like a lot of other things.

      As always, the devil can be in the details. Secure boot that is not meant to restrict user choices is a benign thing, and there's no harm in having it there. If you don't like it, turn it off! If it's not meant to restrict user choice, turning it off will actually work.

      In my laptop's UEFI, secure boot "just works" with the Ubuntu signed bootloader. In addition, I can select any bootloader on the system and select it (whitelist) as trusted. The UEFI generates a hash of the bootloader and will refuse to boot if the hash changes on any given boot, just as it would with a signed bootloader that no longer matched its signature.

      It also works just fine with secure boot off. There's nothing "bad" as it is implemented on that laptop.

      The people who do criticize secure boot may think that it is the camel's nose in the tent in terms of locking the system down in terms of OS, as we're discussing here with Apple. I would not be happy with that, but none of the secure boot PCs I've set up thus far have had anything like that. As it has been implemented in PCs I have used, secure boot is an optional security feature that can be effectively disabled (which is apparently not so with the Apple product in question).

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Damned if they do

      "You simply can't have both the ability to boot any OS that changes from week to week and security against bootloader malware."

      OK, I think I've worked out what you're saying: W10 is bootloader malware.

    3. JohnFen

      Re: Damned if they do

      "You simply can't have both the ability to boot any OS that changes from week to week and security against bootloader malware."

      But you can provide a secure way of allowing the owner of the machine to decide whether or not they want secure boot.

  8. ForthIsNotDead

    As a non-apple owner...

    Isn't iOS (or what ever their OS is called) 75% Linux/Unix anyway?

    (You can probably tell that I've never owned an apple computer).

    1. James O'Shea

      Re: As a non-apple owner...

      macOS is NOT in any way, shape, or form, a Linux derivative. OS X was originally built on NeXTSTEP, which was based on the Mach kernel, plus BSD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTSTEP

      For some reason, a lot of tuxers seem to think that macOS/OS X is just another Linux distro, except that Apple used to cheat and charge for it. Given how easy it is to find the facts, I can only think that this kind of thing is sheer willful ignorance.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: As a non-apple owner...

        Isn't Mac OS just Linux anyway?

      2. James O'Shea

        Re: As a non-apple owner...

        Or, perhaps, there's a brain-damaged troll trying to stir shit.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: As a non-apple owner...

      "Isn't iOS (or what ever their OS is called) 75% Linux/Unix anyway?"

      Linux, no. Substantially Unix, I believe so. There is a difference between Linux and Unix.

    3. nycnikato

      Re: As a non-apple owner...

      100 percent UNIX. 0 Percent Linux.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Isn't MACOS just Linux anyway?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No - MacOS is FreeBSD

      1. James O'Shea

        It's BSD, not necessarily FreeBSD, plus Mach, plus stuff originally thought up at NeXT before the NeXTies conquered Apple when the Steve returned in wrath and glory.

      2. Waseem Alkurdi
        Joke

        Hey what?! I thought macOS was just expensive people's Windows!

  10. GingerOne

    Just can't win!

    Security vulnerabilities rightly get jumped on and vendors berated. but here we have someone trying to make their hardware extra secure and they too get jumped on!

    1. JohnFen

      Re: Just can't win!

      They're not getting jumped on for making it secure. They're getting jumped on for the inability to turn that security off if the owner doesn't want it. That's a huge difference.

  11. chivo243 Silver badge
    Windows

    forever a 2nd hand user

    I will continue being a 2nd hand Mac user. Never bought anything new from Cupertino. All 2nd hand and hand-me-down freebies.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I love Apple.

    1. Waseem Alkurdi
      Joke

      And I love BlackBerry (the fruit, not the dead business phone company).

      1. Anomalous Cowturd
        Coat

        I love Blackberry and Apple...

        ...Crumble with custard.

    2. Michael Habel

      ...But, only when they made Ciggerate Packet sized Music Players, that had an IEEE1394 Connection.

  13. Tim99 Silver badge
    Gimp

    Maybe, or maybe not?

    Link: applemust.com.

  14. mark l 2 Silver badge

    If Apple want to sell their computers with the ability to only boot to MacOS for 'security reasons' then that is their prerogative, But that should be made clear in their literature if this is the case. If it is supposed to be able to boot to other OS and doesn't then it is not fit for purpose and needs either fixing or offer customers who bought it for this feature to send it back for a full refund.

    Maybe Apple are thinking that only a small portion of buyers every run another OS on them so it is not worth supporting booting alternative.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Nonsense, aside from Bootcamp Apple do not market their computers as running other OSs and it is quite clear that hardware and OS are integrated. Therefore if a user chooses to load another OS on their own head be it.

  15. Portent

    Think Different. ThinkPad.

    'nuff said.

  16. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Apple's motto

    “Everything in Apple, nothing outside Apple, nothing against Apple"

  17. Hyper72

    Let not the truth get in the way of a good hatchet job

    A very damaging article. In fact what you do is to boot into macOS Recovery and disable secure boot/signing. Then install and run Linux at your leisure.

    In fact, very similar to how you would disable secure boot in BIOS on a Windows PC.

    1. WolfFan Silver badge

      Re: Let not the truth get in the way of a good hatchet job

      It’s el Reg. They hate Apple.and have for a very long time.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Let not the truth get in the way of a good hatchet job

      "In fact what you do is to boot into macOS Recovery and disable secure boot/signing. Then install and run Linux at your leisure."

      Except (if I am understanding the issue correctly) when secure boot is disabled Apples T2 chip prevents access to several bits of hardware including the hard drive / ssd.

      Kind of hard to install anything on a drive that cant be accessed.

      1. WolfFan Silver badge

        Re: Let not the truth get in the way of a good hatchet job

        Except (if I am understanding the issue correctly) when secure boot is disabled Apples T2 chip prevents access to several bits of hardware including the hard drive / ssd.

        Kind of hard to install anything on a drive that cant be accessed.

        Except that you do NOT understand the issue correctly. You can, should you so desire, boot into the recovery mode https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201255 and then launch the startup security app https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330 and disable secure boot while at the same time allowing the ability to boot off an external device.

        In short, yes you can boot a new Mac with a T2 chip from Linux. You can even boot it from a live CD/DVD/SSD/USB thumb drive/whatever. The local tuxers are completely, utterly, totally, incorrect. Apple is NOT locking Linux out.

        Somehow I don't think that El Reg will retract this story. I really don't. I have lost considerable respect for them. I really have.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    For Shame!

    I feel the righteous rage of the 3 people who bought Apple products to run a shareware OS

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: For Shame!

      "a shareware OS"

      I think I've found the source of your confusion. You don't know the difference between shareware (is it still a thing there in Windows land?) and free/open source.

  19. sisk

    Oh for the love of all that's holy, why? Seriously Apple, why? You've already got their money, let them install the OS they want FFS.

    Cripes. This kind of crap is why I won't willing touch anything with an Apple logo.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh the Irony

    Penguinista's blowing their wads (of cash) on shiny-shiny just so they can load (or not, as it seems) their 'free' hobby OS on it

    That's REALLY sticking it to The Man!

    1. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Oh the Irony

      "Penguinista's blowing their wads (of cash) on shiny-shiny just so they can load (or not, as it seems) their 'free' hobby OS on it"

      Wish my hobby was worth $3.4 x 10^10.

  21. Chas
    FAIL

    Look before you leap!

    Actually it's perfectly possible to boot Linux on the new Macs fitted with the T2 chip:

    * Start up in the Recovery Console (Command-R).

    * Select Startup Security Utility from the menu.

    * Enable or disable Secure Boot to taste.

    There is nothing so satisfying as pricking the pomposity of the self-righteous with the poignard of truth.

    1. WolfFan Silver badge

      Re: Look before you leap!

      You’re not the first to point that out. The wild tuxers infesting this forum simply don’t care. They will go on and on bashing Apple because obviously Apple is at least as evil as Microsoft or Google.

      1. JohnFen

        Re: Look before you leap!

        "They will go on and on bashing Apple because obviously Apple is at least as evil as Microsoft or Google."

        I know very few people who believe this to be true or make this case.

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