back to article Flying Spaghetti Monster is not God, rules mortal judge

A United States District Court judge has ruled that Pastafarianism, the cult of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM), is not a religion. Stephen Cavanaugh, a prisoner in the Nebraska State Penitentiary, brought the case after being denied access to Pastafarian literature and religious items while behind bars. Cavanaugh argued …

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Angel

        Re: All 'religions' the same

        For OTF see the Laundry Novels of Charles Stross

      2. Teropher

        Re: All 'religions' the same

        Coercion? And what does that say of the modern day homosexual movement and its followers when politely told no by a baker, photographer, etc to provide a luxury item for their homosexual wedding and instead of simply finding another accommodating establishment they proceed to coerce said individuals against their will to the tune of losing their businesses, their savings, their livelihoods, etc. How is that any different than the coercion of some religions, but yet is astonishingly applauded by many as being just peachy in spite of the fact the United States was founded on freedom OF religion and the freedom from being coerced? Typical hypocrisy!

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nor was he impressed by Cavanaugh, who had a rather poor grasp on Pastafarianism's key texts, which the judge took the trouble to read.

    Well good for that judge, but it's hardly surprising that Cavanaugh has a poor grasp on the key texts, when he's being denied access to study those texts!

    1. Phil W

      Yes but more importantly, through the bringing of this case, have we found the best and most competent judge in the entirety of the USA? Make that man President, immediately.

    2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      it's hardly surprising that Cavanaugh has a poor grasp on the key texts, when he's being denied access to study those texts!

      The Pastafarian Reformation is nigh...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        The Pastafarian Reformation is nigh...

        So long as the seven "really rather you didn't"s don't get subsumed by the twelve "do this or else"s then reformed pasta is probably a small price to pay.

        1. John Bailey

          "So long as the seven "really rather you didn't"s don't get subsumed by the twelve "do this or else"s then reformed pasta is probably a small price to pay."

          Don't be so sure..

          It comes in cans, in a really horrible runny red sauce.

  2. rtb61

    Under secular governments and constitutional freedom of religion, there is no such thing as a parody religion. Even a religion abused by some non believers must still be counted as religion by others based upon nothing more than their claiming it.

    Take for example atheist Christian ministers who look upon their religion as nothing more than an opportunity to meet the children of the believers of that religion in order to sexual molest those children.

    Regardless of the ministers patent lack of belief as demonstrated by their behaviour or the children's lack of understanding of the religion and the ministers junk not being religious objects, the parents of those abused children still have a right to express themselves via that religion.

    The judge, should face judgement for the immoral decision to decide what religion others should worship based upon the judges own prejudices.

    1. Elmer Phud

      Urinary extraction

      "Under secular governments and constitutional freedom of religion, there is no such thing as a parody religion."

      All religions take the piss.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  3. Archie Woodnuts

    Ha.

    > Implying any religion is anything other than works of fiction or satire.

  4. alain williams Silver badge

    The judge will soon be in hot water ...

    to which tomatoes, spices, herbs and all manner of tasty things are added as he is slowly cooked to become a pasta sauce.

    That will teach him!

    1. John G Imrie

      Re: The judge will soon be in hot water ...

      That's a little harsh, the FSM is well knowen to be an easy going god, and I suspect that he is well pleased with this result as it has allowed numerous people who had no knowledge of his existence to become aware of his noodley appendages.

    2. John Bailey

      Re: The judge will soon be in hot water ...

      "to which tomatoes, spices, herbs and all manner of tasty things are added as he is slowly cooked to become a pasta sauce.

      That will teach him!"

      Why? He did the exact right thing.

      He handed out a verdict that is in accordance with the goals of Pastafarianism. To end religious exceptions to the rules the rest of us follow.

      If you think the Pastafarians lost, you really haven't understood the game being played.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "To read it as religious doctrine would be little different from grounding a 'religious exercise' on any other work of fiction."

    Leaves Scientology in a very precarious position.

  6. Andrew Jones 2

    Apologies in advance to all Christians......

    Right..... the religious texts of Pastafarianism is classed as a parody and worse - a work of fiction, but a book about a woman who becomes pregnant even though she hasn't had sex, a man who can magically turn water into wine (and why wine? why not grapefruit juice?), a book that claims Jesus was born in December - even though it was clearly closer to Spring - even the Christmas Carol While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks By Night to anyone with any common sense tells you it wasn't December, As for the idea that in the time period that people were frightened of Thunder and Lightning because God was mad - people would see a bright star in the sky and go towards it rather than run screaming in the opposite direction, a book where someone dies and then comes back to life..... that is obviously not a work of fiction and is a real documentation of things that actually happened - written down thousands of years after they allegedly happened. The Bible to people who have a clear head actually reads like a book where someone started writing down stories making each one more and more fantastical to see how far people would get through it before going - hang on a minute, this is made up!

    Seriously - talking snakes? Adam and Eve and Kane and Able being the only people in the whole world - and yet somehow they were able to find wives outside of the Garden of Eden - where did the people outside of the Garden of Eden come from? Did they just magically appear? And don't even get me started on the way people go "yup, an ark, every single animal in the entire world, 2 of them in fact, even though there is the thing called the food chain which means the vast majority of them are dinner for another animal higher up the food chain, yup - it seems entirely plausible that - that really happened" I mean has anyone ever worked out what the dimensions of this Ark would have had to have been? and How long it would have taken for it to be built? Bearing in mind that not only did the Ark have to be built, but trees needed to be chopped down and made into planks of similar in order to do this? Yup what a totally believable book.........

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

      The book never made the claim to December. I think the word didn't even exist when the book was written.

      It is the Roman Catholic Church which took to parasiting local customs to replace them with Vatican-approved versions that made that decision. So the RCC was the first organization to uphold the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish method that another modern company made so prevalent.

      As for Adam & Eve, you're the one inferring that they found wives outside. The Bible never says that, so it infers implicitly to huge amounts of incest. And, if Mitochondrial Eve is anything to go by, well, there just may be a grain of truth to it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        So the RCC was the first organization to uphold the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish method that another modern company made so prevalent.

        .. which some here seem to hold as a religion, QED :)

        1. Robert Baker

          Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

          ". which some here seem to hold as a religion, QED"

          In Unix there is strength.

      2. Graham Dawson Silver badge

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        Not parasitism; the new roman coverts to Christianity retained their old holy days and customs for convenience, which is why there is a clear descent of the Pope (pontifex maximus, the civil administrator of the combined roman cults, was a title often held by the emperor), holy days such as saturnalia/Christmas, and the whole ecclesiastical hierarchy from the religious institutions of imperial Rome. Given those customs broadly match all across Europe it isn't surprising that local cultures would adopt a similar syncretism.

      3. Tom 38

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        The book never made the claim to December. I think the word didn't even exist when the book was written.

        What have the Romans ever done for us, except give us the name for the tenth month of the year (Roman years started in March)

      4. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
        Stop

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        "As for Adam & Eve, you're the one inferring that they found wives outside. The Bible never says that, so it infers implicitly to huge amounts of incest."

        Well, Cain went off to the land of Nod to find a wife, so there's that. Not denying huge amounts of incest are also implied, however, especially after the Flood...

      5. Andrew Jones 2

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        "As for Adam & Eve, you're the one inferring that they found wives outside. The Bible never says that, so it infers implicitly to huge amounts of incest. And, if Mitochondrial Eve is anything to go by, well, there just may be a grain of truth to it." Yes it does -

        "16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

        17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch."

        It doesn't say Eve had any more Children at this point, and there is no mention of Cain taking his wife with him when he dwelt in the land of Nod, thus the only possible conclusion at this point has to be that his wife from already living in the land of Nod.

        1. quasimodo

          Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

          Seems like you're reading Genesis with the eyes of a 6yr old ....

          Perhaps you also think the tortoise DID actually race the hare?

          1. KeithR

            Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

            "Seems like you're reading Genesis with the eyes of a 6yr old ....

            Perhaps you also think the tortoise DID actually race the hare?"

            Wow - killer rebuttal.

            It's the fundamentalists themselves that insist that the Bible is the literal word of God - so IT MUST BE TRUE, mustn't it?

          2. This post has been deleted by its author

      6. KeithR

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        "And, if Mitochondrial Eve is anything to go by, well, there just may be a grain of truth to it."

        No truth at all - that would imply some insight on the part of the author of this particular fairy tale, of Mitochondrial Eve.

        Coincidence, yes. Truth, no.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

      even though it was clearly closer to Spring - even the Christmas Carol While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks By Night to anyone with any common sense tells you it wasn't December,

      Ever been to the Middle East in December?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

      "a man who can magically turn water into wine (and why wine? why not grapefruit juice?)

      Why would you even ask that?!!!1!

      1. nijam Silver badge

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        > ... why not grapefruit juice?

        Because he was on statins, I imagine.

    5. Suricou Raven

      Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

      " a man who can magically turn water into wine"

      Everyone who could afford it drank wine. It was weak wine compared with the wine of today, and consumed in vast quantities. The diet coke of the ancient world.

      1. Boothy

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        " a man who can magically turn water into wine"

        Even I can do that, takes me about 8 weeks.

        Maybe Jesus just enjoyed making his own winde and a few people exaggerated how long it took?

        1. Vic
          Joke

          Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

          " a man who can magically turn water into wine"

          Even I can do that, takes me about 8 weeks.

          I can turn wine into piss. Does that make me the anti-Christ?

          Vic.

      2. tekHedd

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        "It was weak wine compared with the wine of today, and consumed in vast quantities. The diet coke of the ancient world."

        Yeah... back in those days nobody got drunk, certainly not at a wedding celebration. Yeah.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

        Most water in towns wasnt considered safe, wine & small beer were safer

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apologies in advance to all Christians......

      @ Andrew Jones 2

      As science has come into pre-dominance, religious leaders have accommodated it, for example, by claiming this, that or the other is allegorical. Thus they can explain the size of the ark away by reference to the Tardis.

  7. Rich 11

    A prisoner could just as easily read the works of Vonnegut or Heinlein and claim it as his holy book

    It's certainly true that Heinlein's 'The Door into Summer' has raised me to a state of ecstatic joy far more often* than any religion has achieved.

    * Trivially true, in that |x| + 1 > 0.

    1. Alistair

      @Rich 11

      Have an upvote for one of my favourites.

  8. dan1980

    "Nor was he impressed by Cavanaugh, who had a rather poor grasp on Pastafarianism's key texts, which the judge took the trouble to read."

    Is it too much to hope that those who wish indulgence to behave in an otherwise unacceptable way or illegal way must similarly prove a strong grasp on the central texts that allegedly inform and justify their actions?

    That's be great - if you want to discriminate against gay people, you must take a bible quiz.

    I'd watch that train-wreck.

    1. Felonmarmer

      Well surely not having a good grasp on his chosen religions key texts, is a good reason for asking for access to them for study purposes?

  9. wolfetone Silver badge

    Can't We All Just Get A Long?

    End of the day, only blinkered people who don't accept the opinions of others will be bothered by this. And unluckily for everyone these people are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jews, Atheist.

    Most religions - Judaism being the exception - all believe that there is a better place to go to after living on Earth. All religions believe that there is some greater body that will exact punishment or praise on to everyone on Earth. So where exactly is it your place to judge?

    If you don't believe in Religion then that's fine. You know the score, you live you die, and thats it. There's nothing else beyond the here and now. So why take the piss out of someone who believes in a God and believes in an afterlife? Your spending your short time on Earth by being a dick.

    If you believe in God and a Religion (which ever food based one it is) then that's fine. You know the score. You live, you die, you're judged on your actions by the body you believe in. So why are you making life difficult for people who don't believe in what you believe in? Your spending your short time on Earth, where you're being watched, by being a complete dick to someone. You aren't treating them with the respect they deserve.

    The common thread with religion is that it's pretty much all the same. The people involved may be different, seen differently, but it's ultimately the same. You live, die, go to heaven or to hell. But above all you shouldn't be a dick. Be nice. It costs nothing.

    And the common thread with humans, everyone wants to be liked. Everyone wants to be treated with respect. We're only here for 70ish years? Why spend that time getting annoyed at people and institutions that you don't recognise? You're not going to bring down the Vatican tomorrow, you're not going to force the closure of Mecca next week. Just suck it up, people don't have to agree with you. But it doesn't mean you should be nasty to them.

    Life is too bloody short to argue the toss of events that happened thousands of years ago where no body here was around to see it. Be nice.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can't We All Just Get A Long?

      "So why take the piss out of someone who believes in a God and believes in an afterlife? "

      Because that has always been the way to expose charlatans in any area of human life. Chaucer had it down to a fine art in his Canterbury Tales.

      What people want to believe is a matter for themselves. The problems start when they claim a divine right to impose their dogma on the rest of the population as a form of social control.

      The tribal nature of human behaviour means that people will pay lip service to a group's shibboleths in return for its offered protection against other groups. They try to assuage any doubts by proselytizing - so that conforming to their social model becomes the only choice if you want to work and live.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. fandom

      Re: Can't We All Just Get A Long?

      Because the whole point of the internet is to allow people to be a dick in an anonymous way.

      To ask people to be nice is, therefore, clearly against progress.

    4. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      @ wolfetone Re: Can't We All Just Get A Long?

      I think you are confusing Religion with Faith,

      I have no trouble getting along with people who have a particular faith in a deity or otherwise, even when I don't share it (as long as they don't try to stuff it down my throat).

      I have no time whatsoever for organized religion, which is an abuse of faith by parasites interested only in their own self-satisfaction.

    5. King Jack

      Re: Can't We All Just Get A Long?

      Why do I have to respect someone for believing in something, especially when that thing is nonsense?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Can't We All Just Get A Long?

        The common thread with religion is that it's pretty much all the same. The people involved may be different, seen differently, but it's ultimately the same. You live, die, go to heaven or to hell. But above all you shouldn't be a dick. Be nice. It costs nothing.

        Good point; but I can be legally executed in (I think it's) 13 different countries for my beliefs or lack thereof. And that's not counting ISIS or that other African lot's territories.

        I'm all for a peaceful coexistance and more power to the elbows of those who quietly get on with it (or possibly the power might be better allocated to their knees). But some of these bastards do not make this possible. About 1-in-4 of the planetary population refer to a book that states I should be converted, taxed or put to death; with no real preference as to which. Which frankly, is a little disconcerting.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can't We All Just Get A Long?

      A Long what? (a long noodly appendage? I've already got one)

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can't We All Just Get A Long?

      The common thread with religion is that it's pretty much all the same. The people involved may be different, seen differently, but it's ultimately the same. You live, die, go to heaven or to hell. But above all you shouldn't be a dick. Be nice. It costs nothing.

      The problem tends to come about when one's holy book tells one to be a dick. They all contain some seriously dickish instructions here and there.

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