back to article Number-plate spycams riddled with flaws, top cop admits

UK Police have been granted the right to continue to keep secret the locations of controversial automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras, after winning a freedom of information tribunal - even as they admit that criminals know the whereabouts of some of the spycams. However, as reported by the Guardian, which has been …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Silver badge

ANPR locations

Thanks to data deals done by the police, you can count among ANPR locations:

Virtually every filling station in the UK

Virtually every gated car park in the UK

ANPR cameras are suprisingly cheap - and used by a lot of private companies. The police try and get feeds off every single one of them and permission is seldom if ever refused.

The cameras you see are the ones they want you to see.

1
0
Silver badge

Tax discs and fake plates

One bit of input on that score.

The uninsured(*) driver who I T-Bboned as he ran a compulsary stop in Croydon during 2006 had credible(**) fake plates on his car - which the DVLA confirmed had never been issued. There was a matching fake tax disc on the windscreen which looked genuine and I found out later the car had 3 different VINs on it (windscreen, vs Firewall vs elsewhere on the car, apparently the genuine ones indicated the car had been scrapped 5 years previously)

The cops attending who flagged the plates as fake said they reckon as many as one in 8 london cars has fake plates - mainly to avoid congestion charges.(***)

(*) And unidentified - he and his mate ran off despite just having had a 30mph impact just in front of the A-pillar and the cops couldn't be arsed fingerprinting the interior or getting DNA from the bloodstains on the passenger door window.

(**) There are formulas for plate numbering. Peter Sutcliffe got done because a copper noticed his plate was for a HGV, not a car/van, and a London copper should notice plates on a beat-up old Rover which weren't issued at Wimbledon.

(***) There's probably an industry to be had from simply cruising the streets and impounding any such vehicles on the spot. It'd free up a lot of parking spaces if the numbers are really that high.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: Tax discs and fake plates

I've reported untaxed vehicles near to me to the DVLA. 3 months later they are still there. UK car system = FAIL.

0
0
MJI
Silver badge

Re: If I was in London

I would have fake plates for the congestion zone

0
0
Vic

Re: Tax discs and fake plates

> There are formulas for plate numbering

There used to be; I'm pretty sure that's now been scrapped. You now have <area code><date code> <three random letters>

Vic.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: Tax discs and fake plates

Don't report to the DVLA, just let your local fuzz know.

0
0
Silver badge

Re: Tax discs and fake plates

You're probably right, but take a closer look at the area codes.

http://www.kingkong.demon.co.uk/where/gb.htm

It's easy enough to reserve a few of the codes in each area for HGVs (if not being done already)

0
0
Gold badge

numerology....

7.6 billion *is* "over 7 billion". This is a standard technique here in the US politicians and such use to massage figures... going from a hard figure to a "soft" figure which makes it sound like something unpalateable has been reduced, or a "soft" figure that makes it sound like something is happening more than it is. If there's, say, 8.2 billion records now, and 7.6 billion then, some would say that 8.2 billion is "over 7 billion." Others may make it sound like the cameras are running overtime, they could decide to call that "almost 9 billion" or, why not, "almost 10 billion".

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Ken, with the greatest possible respect

You normally write a great deal of sense on the technical stuff, but here you are somewhat off beam.

Why do you feel you can trust the police?

E.g. The police are legally required to display ID when they are on duty. It's not unreasonable, and it's not difficult.

Next time you see a picture of police on "public order" duty, especially if it's the Met and the TSG/SPG are out looking for a ruckus, see how many of them are displaying the legally required ID.

I could understand if one or two of the dodgier ones were missing it.

But it's not one or two.

Often enough there's no police ID to be seen, anywhere.

Which means it's not just the constables, it's more senior officers colluding too.

If they can't be trusted with the basic simple things like that, what hope is there on anything more difficult?

I won't even go down the Ian Tomlinson/Freddy Patel road, as it leads to places sensible people don't want to go.

Maybe it's just the Met that are like this. I certainly hope so. But if it was just the Met, you'd perhaps hope the Federation might have a few words to say on the subject of dodgy coppering. After all, without the support of the public, the police don't really have a leg to stand on, especially right now when the Millionaires Cabinet is as happy cutting police numbers as they are cutting any other public sector numbers.

But has anyone ever seen any sign of the Fed speaking out? Go on, amaze me. I don't even recall any sign of the police religious associations (eg Christian Police Association), who you might think might be concerned about things like truth, fairness, and justice, not to mention "commandments" such as "do not hurt other people" and "do not lie", having anything much to say about Tomlinson, de Menezes, etc.

I wouldn't want to be a copper at the best of times. But I certainly wouldn't want to be a copper in the UK, now.

4
2
Vic

Re: Ken, with the greatest possible respect

> Maybe it's just the Met that are like this

There are dodgy coppers all around.

I kept an old banger running for at least three years after it ought to have been trashed. I lived next door to a DC, and he always knew where to go to get an MOT for it...

Vic.

1
0
Megaphone

Re: Ken, with the greatest possible respect

Nice rant, but it's based on bollocks.

"The police are legally required to display ID when they are on duty." No, they aren't. Care to post exact details of the legislation that enacts this alleged requirement? I will give you a clue... don't waste your time looking. If an officer of constable or sergeant rank doesn't display their "FIN"- force identification number (in the Met, their District number) - then it's likely to be a disciplinary matter, depending on the circumstances. But there's no law requiring it.

Officers above the rank of sergeant don't have numbers as part of their uniform badges of rank, but some might have a badge that display their FIN. And if the officers comprise a Police Support Unit (PSU), then their Force Standing Orders will probably make different requirements... but again, the law is silent on this.

Another armchair expert. Sigh.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: "based on bollocks"

You may be right. I may have got the detail wrong (sorry), and at least for now I stand corrected.

Armchair expert or not: can you give me two good reasons why should we trust the police in general when there is so much evidence that we shouldn't?

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Paul Stephenson reportedly ordered the feet on the street to display their ID. And the Metropolitan Police Authority thought that was a good idea too. The feet on the street didn't think so, and didn't co-operate.

Do readers know anyone outside Plod and close associates who does think it's OK for the police not to display their ID?

Actually, it's ex Commissioner Stephenson now isn't it. He resigned in 2011 in the wake of the Murdoch phone tapping non-investigation scandal (after Stephenson received £12K worth of free hospitality from a Murdoch associate who had been arrested in connection with Operation Weeting).

Another fine example of police trustworthiness, right?

0
0

This post has been deleted by a moderator

It is just plain illegal and shoud be stopped

I have a right to privacy under the European convention on Human Rights. As a European citizen I also have the right to travel freely freely wherever I want to go in the European Union. The whole ANPR system is illegal, as it spies on citizens who are not suspects and stores information about them which is private (i.e. their legal journeys). It should be scrapped. I am amazed that it is allowed to stay in operation. I am also a California resident and know that any such system would never be allowed by Californians, who actually believe in their ability to have a private life.

1
1
WTF?

Re: It is just plain illegal and shoud be stopped

Of course you have a right to privacy... but not in a public place. I can assure you that there is not a single ANPR camera inside your residence!

I challenge you to stop puffing about something that you have clearly never read, and identify exactly which part of the Convention (or that part of the domestic legislation that implements the Convention Rights in your particular EC state - in the UK it's the Human Rights Act 2000) prohibits the use of these cameras?

At least you are obviously not a lawyer... that much goes to your credit... but of course, your admission to being a Californian resident does explain a lot... :)

0
0
Mushroom

The United Kingdom is fast becoming a police state

How did this happen?

Who’s to blame?

Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to [insert name of government official]

He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives.

So if you’ve seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.

1
1
FAIL

The editor's "Bootnote" is just plain completely WRONG!

I don't know where he or she got his information, but it's complete tosh - no ANPR system in use in the UK uses induction loops - maybe they've become confused with the triggers for unmanned speed cameras??

For an IT-focussed site, it's an incredible display of complete ignorance about the subject, and appears to have been grandstanding for no real reason.

And the original reporting (although it hardly merits being described as "reporting") is just as shoddy... the phrase "riddled with flaws" seems to be a sub-editors fantasy... the actual "flaw", according to all of the original submissions, is simply that there is no national strategy for their location so there are not enough in the right places. Hardly "riddled with flaws". But the situation can easily be sorted by central funding for more cameras, and a national strategy for identifying sites for the new ones... :)

2
0
Anonymous Coward

ANPR Cameras

ANPR Cameras are not as noticeable as you might think:

On Traffic Signals (unit on right)

On Major Roads(monitors 6 lanes)

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Re: ANPR Cameras

Oh for an edit.. that's 4 Lanes not 6...

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.

Forums

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2018