Not happy
I would miss Java, Steve....
Apple has "deprecated" Java on Mac OS X, meaning it will pay even less attention to upkeep of the platform, and it may kill the platform entirely on a future version of its operating system. Many seem to think this is minor news. But if Steve Jobs is booting Java from the Mac, he's also booting Java developers, including all …
Everyone seems to link Apple deprecating their own Java version to not liking non-native apps and trying to kill Android for the benefit of the iPhone. Well, consider that Oracle just reversed years of Java policy of their own and of Sun's and decided to sue Google for developing Java that didn't exactly please Oracle. Perhaps Apple would rather have Oracle provide you with Java for the Mac than be sued by Oracle for providing it themselves.
Oracle's policies on Java, Solaris, MySQL, and pretty much everything else from Sun Microsystems is so far full of Fail.
As has already been pointed out, Apple is/was the only platform supplying their own JVM; Windows and Linux users have to go to Sun/Oracle to get their JVMs, so why not Apple users too?
There has been much derision of Apple over the last few years about the way that the Apple JVM lags behind the official JVM, so now why aren't those people rejoicing that the JVM at last has a chance to be up to date?
Unless of course Sun/Oracle are Apple-haters too...
IBM supplies their own Hotspot based JVM to their Power servers with IBM i (i5/OS), to their Z/OS z-series mainframes or Z systems, for AIX, for linux, even did for Windows actually. Before they sold of their pc lineup. Oracle did produce their own JRockit JVM which they will merge with Hotspot, and companies like Azul systems have their own Hotspot based implementations and hardware support/acceleration. And there is SAP too, and a few other really. Linux users go to IcedTea or depending on what environment they run may run JVMs from IBM, maybe even SAP or Oracles BEA buy JRockit besides the old Sun JVM. Oh yeah HP supplies their own JVM to their Unix-platforms too. HP-UX, OpenVMS and Reliant/Nonstop that is.
Steve Jobs comment is this (from http://www.flickr.com/photos/frasers/5104179782/):
"Sun (now Oracle) supplies Java for all other platforms. They have their own release schedules, which are almost always different than ours, so the Java we ship is always a version behind. This may not be the best way to do it."
Say what you want, but he's right. Java on OS X was always a step behind and Oracle shipping it in sync with the Windows and Linux versions would be The Right Thing to do.
Oh, puh-lease. Despite all the hype and hysteria the Mac is still a minority platform.
Some students and yuppie developers may care about Java on Macs, but I there are not many enterprises which would even notice. Nobody ever bought a Mac because it had such great Java support, IME.
Besides, what the world needs is NOT more Java developers.
I don't understand why so many (especially opensource) developers love apple so much! In the world of Drupal everyone is on a mac and it seems silly because Apple not only don't promise to "do no evil" this kind of thing like banning java is exactly what they have proven they will do.
Why did the developer spend so much time trying to convert people to mac?
Lets piss off Developers who like OSX and make them switch to buying vanilla hardware and running Linux.
Using VM's / bootcamp are a pain. I use bootcamp for windows for gaming, because I have to.
If I have to add Linux for Java development, then my next Laptop will probably be a vanilla laptop setup for dual boot, running Windows and Linux.
Buy yourself a screaming Windows 7 laptop ... there are many in the 3GB/360GB/<$400 territory ... download the incredibly easy-to-use Ubuntu Windows installer ... run the thing ... reboot ... BAM ... a new, dynamic Linux partition and full-fledged Linux/Windows dual boot is yours in under an hour.
While you use the long-standing Ubuntu Software Repositories, with one-click installation of tens of thousands of free (as in beer) Apps, you can remember how cool Apple was when they "innovated" the AppStore.
And for those of you who are stupidly commenting about how little Java impacts your daily lives, you are clearly uninformed. Java is running, right now, in your car, in your telephone control centers and in hundreds of other places you use every day. Just because you don't see it on your desktop doesn't mean it's not the number one most-used programming language on the planet, right now. There's a reason for that. That reason is its portability between virtually any system configuration. That includes the desktop and server systems you can see with your own two eyes and thousands of variants of mobile and embedded systems ... even extending into hospitals and other critical environments.
Jobs announcing that his company won't be providing a JVM, refusing to open his company's APIs in any significant way, and threatening every type of developer with his insane knee-jerk responses will push developers away from his platform. Both the absence of a native JVM (because, face it, Oracle doesn't give a crap if the tiny fraction of systems that Apple represents get a native JVM) and the instability of Jobs' management decisions make for an unstable, uninviting environment.
Did my comment have anything to do with who supplies the JVM?
I'm pretty sure I was providing a path to a Java-friendly development environment to a poster who expressed an interest in discovering one. And, if you recall, I was promoting Ubuntu ... which also has its base JVM built by Sun/Oracle, just like Microsoft does. (See if you can figure out *why* Apple doesn't use Sun/Oracle's services ... I'll leave it to you as an exercise that you very badly need.)
Surely you aren't disagreeing with my statement about how much Java is being used outside of the Macintosh world? Because that would be simply ignorant.
Have a nice day!
Because as we see every day in these hallowed and august comment threads, frothing at the mouth fandroids hate Apple with such ferocity it's a wonder they ever have time for anything else.
And from all the 'open' rhetoric and broken word salad that emerges from the alleged developers, it's clear that most of them aren't old enough to have a job that pays enough to buy a mac even if they didn't.
Of course, Im unfairly generalising a whole set from an entirely unrepresentative sample, aren't I.
But, What would anyone lose?
Nothing will come close to Windows in business desktop. I do love Linux, but there is no way in hell anything but Windows will own the business world. There are simply too many business critical software tied to Windows. Steve knows it, he won't waste time or effort here.
Apple is never going to take server market either, again, no lose.
For those who like to do some independent thinking, they are not likely to use Mac anyway, Apply will not lose any business here.
For those who are die hard iEverything followers, they will still buy whatever Apple sells. Again, no lose.
If some die hard Apple followers are force to also use Windows/Linux alone side their iThingy, why is it bad? This way, everyone wins.
See, Steve is helping Windows/Linux, cheers.
I freaking love you apple. i despise Java, in all its incarnations. If you are significantly twisted enough to develop your apps in this insidious shit hole of a language, at least be kind and do it all server side, don't foist your perversions onto the clients.
Personally, I've been Flash and Java free for ages. No, I'm not missing anything. I don't want your shoddy plugins and VMs anywhere near my OS.
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If apple dont want java devs, then whats the problem, devs can just move over to RIM ,they REALLY like java and its developer tools , and they have an actual real dual 1gig A9 Arm CPU to actually help your java commercial and open efforts run faster than the crappy single core Arm A8
"The other salient point here is that if you don't have Java on the Mac, you can't use Google's Android SDK. Most Android development is done on Eclipse, and though Eclipse isn't required by the SDK, the Java environment is. "I guess Steve really, really doesn't like Android, does he?" Abbey says.
So, Steve Jobs never gave Java a chance on the iPhone or the iPad. He's now threatening to kill it on the Mac. And in so doing, he's shoving a world of Java developers off his desktops and laptops, including Android coders. "I cannot overstate what catastrophe this is," says one coder." If the future of Java on Mac is in doubt, then I have no other choice than going the Linux way...all the work I've done trying to get all developers converting to Mac is undone.""
First Steve banned Flash on the iPad and iPhone and I did not complain because I did not use Flash; then Steve banned Java on the Mac and I did not complain because I did not use Java; then Steve banned me and there was no-one left to complain...
We have repeated examples of iPhone developers cut from Apple's store wiping out their business income. Flash application developers locked out of Apple reducing their business income and now Java developers getting locked out of Apple. What the hell?!
From a business perspective, its getting increasingly high risk (for almost all businesses) to base their business model primarily (or even partly) on supporting Apple products, because Apple's repeated moves to close down their platform at any moment could then undermine your entire business income or at the very least hurt your business. That is no way to encourage more developers to support their platform!. This is going to scare more developers away wondering what is next to become closed. Its already scared me away as I was just planning to start supporting Macs!. Like most developers I can't afford to risk time and money on a platform that may suddenly try to cut me out like so many other developers are now suffering. :(
Don't put your eggs in one vendor's proprietary cart.
So apple plans on relegating Java to their waste-basket, so what, it's not the end of the Mac world is it? No it isn't, because you can (still) install a VM and run Windows or Linux and carry on carrying on. Note the (still) in that last sentence? Its there because I don't think Mr. Jobs is anywhere near finished consolidating control over his platform. By guiding the Mac users towards one source for their applications, Mr. Jobs can decide what a Mac is or is not permitted to run. He could ban all VMs. Why would he do this? I have no idea. Perhaps just because he wants to (unlikely), or perhaps it doesn't fit in with his grand-plan (more plausible). Does this sound like a silly thing to do? It does to me, but more importantly does it sound possible? Does Java depend on the Java VM?
Watch the original 1984 Mac Advertisement, see that man on the big screen preaching to the masses? As much as he and others might not like to admit it, 26 years after that advert ran, Mr. Jobs has become more like (than unlike) that Orwellian character.
"From a business perspective, its getting increasingly high risk (for almost all businesses) to base their business model primarily (or even partly) on supporting Apple products, because Apple's repeated moves to close down their platform at any moment could then undermine your entire business income or at the very least hurt your business. "
why all the surprise today, apple or rather job's did exactly the same with 3rd party PPC HW vendors Years ago, when nearly all the 3rd party vendors where producing far better Hardware CPU add-ins for job's Mac baby.
these PPC CPU OEM's where all working out open plan's to increase the overall market share for apple and everyone involved to become larger and so sell far more kit, but job's didn't like that fact these add-ins where better and faster than his original CPU's or the fact people actually wanted to buy the faster 3rd party CPU options and so job's killed the 3rd party licencing dead.
lesson learned, know your real apple history , and dont make the same mistakes again, do not trust job's in the long term, he will turn and bite your hand off along with your offerings.
If you go to the Apple store, you'll see (in the URL) that WebObjects (the 16 year old technology) is no longer used. You can also take into account the "introduction" of iOS Apps onto MacOS X. So
a "Java-like" development platform does/will exist on Mac OS X (and the iPad and the iPhone and AppleTV). It won't take much to put a JVM on Mac OS X (for the web/JavaScript), so Apple can free up a group of developers to work on other things (whatever).
And, I think all the folks who say that Apple will give you all the software they tell you that you will want, seems to be correct. I can think of no other reason (apart from saving money).
Apple is worth $91 billion with $25 billion cash in the bank and no debt.
Google is worth 150 billion and made 14 billion profit last statement.
Google needs to buy out Apple. 14 billion is more than a 10% down-payment with the rest in installments over ten years. :)
Kick Mr. Jobs to the curb (Don't feel bad for him, he can go back to Pixar and make Finding Nemo 2: The Revenge) and you are done!
Its a win - win!!!
Look at you bitchy moaning Java devs. First you bitch Apple for not having a good Java or being behind the scenes. Then now that you have your arses kicked you bitch and moan at all the extra work it will take for you to do the job Apple was doing making Java for the OS X platform.
You bitch and moan that the build in is no good. Yet won't install and use any other product. What a bunch of pansy nancy boys spoilt brats!
I don't use the built in Python or Ruby interpreters that ship with OS X and I have no problems doing any coding with those. Hell I'm not even doing programming as a living and I picked up Objective C easily enough to move my applications across from other languages.
Why don't you get off your lazy whining arses and actually do some actual work and effort improving yourselves. Java is a dead end, its not going anywhere but down especially now in the hands of Oracle.
Get over yourselves already!
pretty much all of our network management applications are now Java based
at least that means we can still run Linux, MacOSX as well as windows and still get access - rather than when it was a windows only EXE.
however, if Java is going DODO on OSX, then I'm afraid thats it. end of the road. there will be no new Mac upgrade for me when my current machine reaches end of warranty. back to 100% linux desktop (with m0n0 for .NET requirements)
It's the JDK <and> the JRE thats closed down and canceled since Apple is the one releasing it. Not only that but the ones porting it. Only one with at tinpot is you. Please have a clue before posting. Get a grip. You can't install something that aren't offered. Apple is booting their port of JRE7 to the mac.
No Java on Macs would mean not only no Java dev environments; it will also impact in-house applications for several customers that I know of.
And IBM won't be too happy about this, too, since Lotus Notes now needs Java. So this means Macs will be kicked out of places that use Domino/Notes.