back to article Blighty: We spent £1bn on Galileo and all we got was this lousy T-shirt

There were heated exchanges at Parliament's Defence and European Scrutiny Committee this week as members attempted to get the Minister for Defence Procurement, Stuart Andrew, to put a figure on the cost of the Galileo project. Andrew did not have the number to hand, which prompted Mark Francois MP to splutter: "Oh come on, …

  1. Roland6 Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    "I'd have thought May should be first up. ..."

    The trouble is that May most probably really wants to deliver "Brexit", something I think many of her Brexiteers colleagues have forgotten. May wants to have an election "post-Brexit" and be able to say she (and the Conservative party) delivered on "the will of the people". In this context (ie. winning the next general election) it doesn't really matter what 'Brexit' is, just so long as it can carry the 'Brexit' label and the Conservatives can claim to have delivered it.

  2. Terry 6 Silver badge
    Pint

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    Roland6 Yes. See icon. Deserved.

  3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    Greece joined the EU in 1982. Spain in 86. Croatia a mere 5 years ago. People were going to these places long before they were in the union.

    Visa-free travel was largely driven by the EU. The Open Skies programme has been a key driver of opening up the flights market in Europe. Yes, people were going somewhere foreign for their holidays before the Treaty of Luxemburg but the rolling back of borders certainly accelerated the trend.

  4. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    I'd have thought May should be first up. Negotiating a deal that hands over billions with a loose "might do" text as regards a future "maybe" trade deal doesn't sound like a deal you could sell to anyone.

    The great betrayal fallacy. May was the elected leader of the party that wanted to push ahead with leaving. She appointed pro-leavers to the job of top negoatiators. And this is the best they could come up with. Rinse and repeat and you won't change much because the UK wants access to the single market and doesn't want border controls with Ireland reintroduced.

  5. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    @ Roland6

    "An insightful comment Codejunky!"

    I wasnt trying to be funny with him, just pointing out that we have not taken away his 'right' to be in the EU, it is in existence without us its just over there. And his 'right' to want to be in the EU does not undermine 3 votes to remove ourselves further. The worrying part is he thinks he has a 'right' over all these people he seems to dislike.

    "This perception of separateness I think is key to understanding some of the relationship issues this country (and probably its just the English) has with the EU and Continental Europe over the decades."

    It is to be expected to have a long and not all happy relationship with such close neighbours. Throw in the geographically close and conflicting empires throughout history and it isnt shocking that another empire is not warmly welcomed. Even throughout the EU the populations are unhappy with the EU, this isnt a UK or English thing.

    It amazes me the fight to remain but only because we opted out of so much. The EU project is so wonderful and desirable that we do not wish to join it proper, and even with our arms length participation the majority voted for change in 3 votes, leave in 2 votes.

  6. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    "I've lived in the EU for many years, still do. It's a little country called Wales. "

    Hilarious that Wales and the North East were two of the biggest Leave voting areas and the only areas in surplus to the EU IE the EU owes them money.

    This sort of self-harm isn't cutting yourself with a craft knife.

    It's playing a blow torch over your arm.

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  11. Jamie Jones Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    "David Davis was undermined COMPLETELY by Traitor Mrs May .. she even took most of his neogitiators off him and gave them to Olley Robinson. David Davis had a free trade plan.

    Just look a the cr@ppy mess created by Mrs May .. a REMAINER.

    A dirty little filthy disgusting traitor REMAINER."

    Blimey! What a totally unhinged rant, complete with random capitalised words and everything! You are a typical brexitter!

    May is defintitely not a remainer. Where have you been the last 2 years? The hypocrite pretended to support remain when she was still under Cameron. sure. but that was the obvious lie.

    Anyway, where the hell do you get that we all support May? As a staunch remainer, I hate May. I'm not old enough to remember much about thatchers politics first hand, so can easily say that May is the worst and most slimey politician I've experienced (and I can even remember Blair)

    The sad thing is, when everyting crashes and burns, you and your other daily mail friends will still be blaming the EU/remainers.

    By the way, can you tell me why Rees-Mogg has moved all his companies assets and interests from the UK to Ireland?

    "If you love the EU so much bugger off and live there .. I have for over 10 years. At least I know what Europeans think of the UK"

    Trumpites use the line "if you hate the USA and freedom so much, why don't you move to North Korea?"

    I'd say to you, if you don't want to live in Europe, you bugger off. You are now responsible for slowly turning us into a jingoistic nation, exploited by the rich and elite who don't actually give a crap about us - a nation where those like you who will suffer the most are the very ones that will vote for the oppressors. You didn't need to do that. You could have taken your MUKGA hat and just moved to one of those instead.

    And as for what Europeans think about the UK, I've always found them to be fine. But how do you expect them to react when dealing with a blubbering manic old git who probably patronised them at every opportunity? It's little wonder your view is somewhat skewed.

  12. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    @ HolySchmoley

    Sorry if it wasnt clear to you but 'No we aint' was to the amusing claim that those voting leave took away his supposed 'right' to be in the EU. As I said "No we aint. The EU is just over there, feel free to go.".

    Hope that is clear.

  13. Jamie Jones Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    His claim was only amusing if you find others misfortune funny.

    Because of backwards people like you, we aren't "free to go".

    Hope that is clear.

  14. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    @ Jamie Jones

    "His claim was only amusing if you find others misfortune funny."

    His claim was amusing because it was not only crap but not even polished crap. How is it his misfortune that he lives in a democracy and is free to leave for the very place he is claiming to desire to be?

    "Because of backwards people like you, we aren't "free to go"."

    Erm, why? Why cant he go? Its just over there. He can go.

    "Hope that is clear."

    Not really. Sounds like you are moaning but there is no clear reason. Seems your comment exists only so you can call me backwards. I dont really know how to respond to that without being condescending- awww, there there

  15. Jamie Jones Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    If you gave a crap about democracy, you would welcome a referendum based on the final situation, especially as the first was run on illegal campaigning and lies.

    But then, you know that current polls show that over half the voters want to remain, which scares you no end. Democracy? When it suits you.

    Now, even ignoring the fact that he already lives in the EU, and you're taking that away from him, explain how he can move to Europe? Removal of free travel and immigration rights doesn't just apply to the UK and the "bloody foreigners pinching our jobs, houses, and benefits"

  16. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    @ Jamie Jones

    "If you gave a crap about democracy, you would welcome a referendum based on the final situation"

    Only if I gave a crap about removing democracy yes. That is not what I want, I like democracy and the people being able to make a choice. We dont have do-overs every time a new government is formed and they 'adjust' their promises. However if you give a damn about democracy you would know we have had 3 votes to say we want a say and 2 of those to say leave the EU. The only democratic option now is to leave the EU. Hell the argument for another bloody vote is to stop brexit, not democratic.

    "especially as the first was run on illegal campaigning and lies."

    Yes it was. Both official campaigns lied. The gov and BoE abused their position. Rigged the vote and still lost badly. Yet the remain propaganda campaign has continued long after the votes. And not for democratic preparing for the next election to fight to rejoin the EU but instead to overturn the 3 democratic votes.

    "But then, you know that current polls show that over half the voters want to remain, which scares you no end. Democracy? When it suits you."

    Such polls similar to before the referendum. 1 vote for a referendum, 1 referendum and another general election where the remain party almost wiped out completely. At what point are you confused about democracy?

    "Now, even ignoring the fact that he already lives in the EU, and you're taking that away from him, explain how he can move to Europe?"

    What argument is that? You go to Scotland and tell them they didnt deserve an independence vote because they already live in the UK and it would be taking that away from them. Also how are you confused about how he can go to Europe? He could emigrate to the EU. It has not been taken away from him, it still exists. Why does his minority opinion overrule democracy? That is not very democratic.

    "Removal of free travel and immigration rights doesn't just apply to the UK and the "bloody foreigners pinching our jobs, houses, and benefits""

    Travel isnt free. You actually perform a transaction of money for passage by train, boat or air. Or is your argument that the EU doenst want him? Because he is free to leave the UK.

  17. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Well, who'd have thought it?

    @ Jamie Jones

    Important follow up. Why is there such a huge fight to remain, but no fight to join the EU proper? Some people want to remain, but not rejoin because then we lose our opt-outs etc. The EU is so wonderful and great that we dont want to join it because it is a mess, it is awful and we prefer to be at-least arms length away.

    Even with our opt outs there is no vote to remain. A GE demanding a choice, a referendum majority out (remain couldnt even get a piddly 50%) and then another GE where the only party promising to ditch democracy and ignore the referendum are left with a handful of people. A few thousand people wandering the street with some of them maybe knowing what the protest is about doesnt change that they are not an overwhelming majority, nor even a majority!

    It is almost like this is the last stand for the lost cause. The desperation to remain now with opt outs is paramount or we would never join such a bad political union.

  18. Adrian 4 Silver badge

    Short-sighted ? The EU ?

    It's not the EU who are displaying lack of foresight here.

  19. Mark 65 Silver badge

    Greek austerity, Italian rumblings? We'll see how foresighted they really are.

  20. Paul Crawford Silver badge
    Facepalm

    "Brit taxpayers had shovelled £1bn into the programme from which they would now be locked out due to rules we insisted on and which we then decided to become non-compliant with"

    Fixed his statement for him...

    It is sad and stupid, and the loss of privileged access to Galileo is also sad and stupid but entirely predictable.

  21. Clive Galway
    Pirate

    Spoof Galileo in the English Channel

    Send them all into the rocks along the Cornish coast ;)

  22. arctic_haze Silver badge

    Re: Spoof Galileo in the English Channel

    Most of the victims would be Irish ferries replacing the lorries stuck in Dover.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why all the upset about £1Billion?

    For the last 40 years the U.K. has paid 14% of every penny spent by the E.U., if we stay until 2020 they want another £10Billion.

    Those of us who voted in favour wanted a clean break and the time has been wasted trying to conjure up a deal that was never going to happen

  24. Killing Time

    @AC

    The referendum was a simple question, do we want to leave the EU. The Leave campaign was wholly based around, and sold to Joe Public, on our ability to negotiate a way out which would be beneficial to the UK, because if we couldn't reach a favourable deal we would just walk away.

    Despite this fantasy, at least those clowns understand reality enough to grasp the fact that a so called 'clean break' is the worst possible option. Any other deal we may be able to strike with other trading blocks we will be the far weaker party, with no leverage and they will see how we treat trading partners. We will 'eventually' get deals which reflect our behaviour.

    Is it naivety or just intellectually challenging for you to understand this?

    I don't believe you speak for the entirety of the leave voters, at least the ones I speak to grasp the basic facts of the situation.

  25. werdsmith Silver badge

    The £1 billion is not really lost, this is stupid headline reporting.

    Work done by Airbus in UK and SSTL in Guildford, who are part of Airbus and the other tech companies who have contributed so far is going to be paid up as per the contract. So a sizable chunk of the billion, ir not all of it, has come back into the economy.

  26. Roland6 Silver badge

    >Those of us who voted in favour wanted a clean break

    Delusional in thinking that all 17.2M wanted the same thing...

    The only thing 17.2M people voted for was a direction of travel, at no time have they been given an option to express an opinion about the mode of travel...

    Additionally, whilst the hard Brexiteers might have wanted a "clean break", what they overlook is that once the UK leaves, the UKs negotiating position will be much much weaker than it is now; al the fun-and-games with the EU27 is just a taster to the fun and games we will have with the WTO...

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    >Why all the upset about £1Billion?

    During Osborne's tenure as Chancellor he printed (Quantitatively Eased) £450 Billion and the last two governments have increased the ridiculous national debt of £700 Billion left by Labour to £1800 Billion.

    Seems odd everyone is getting so exercised over the odd 30 or 40 billion quid here and there.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    > Seems odd everyone is getting so exercised over the odd 30 or 40 billion quid here and there.

    This is just bike shedding taken to its extreme. And there is little talk about how Galileo will progress, after all it is a project that is far from completed.

  29. Seven_Spades

    The Labour parties legacy was a welfare state so large that no government can reign it in. The sheer number of benefits that exist now that simply did not exist during the 70's and 80's is the biggest problem. Out sourcing in the NHS along with PFI means that the NHS ow accounts for ⅓ of the entire UK budget. The country has been completely mismanaged for years.

  30. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    "Those of us who voted in favour wanted a clean break and the time has been wasted trying to conjure up a deal that was never going to happen"

    *SOME* of you who voted in favour wanted a clean break. I know that for a fact because I know people who voted leave and expected a staged and managed withdrawal

    I suspect that most of those who voted for leave and wanted a hard brexit barely gave a thought to the consequences of that action.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So I take it you refuse to use anything created by Labour? You don't use the NHS or intend to have a pension etc?

    Obviously I can't prove if you do or don't use any of those, but you're the one who'd have to live with his sense of dishonor, no matter how you convince yourself "i paid taxes i deserve this"

  32. JassMan Silver badge

    @seven_spades

    where do you get your statistics from? All the reputable sites say NHS spending has never exceeded 8% which is less than a quarter of your 33%.

  33. MatthewSt

    Woah there! Don't be letting facts get in the way of an EU piñata session! If they have to start telling the truth then they'll all be out of a job!

  34. iainr

    Equally anyone who has any sense must have known that given how the EU works a staged, managed withdrawal was never going to happen. The two phrases that I've always seen waved around any major political decision within the EU are "nothings agreed until everythings agreed" and "it all gets agreed at the last minute".

  35. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    FUD Central Nervous System

    £1.8 Trillion back to whom and/or what for what and/or whom is the thin edge of the Grand Ponzi Hedge. ..... What Would Happen If USA Stopped Paying Its Debt? ...... and all debts are still rising, and are never able to be paid back. It is a Sweet Bear Raging Bull Trap for the Pleasures and Fiat Paper Enrichment of Bankers Seeding and Feeding Old Analogous Global Command and Control Assistants in Ages and Spaces/Times and Places which have AI Remote Virtualised Control of SCADA Command Systems.

    Picturing things into another uncomfortable perspective ...... https://youtu.be/XqUwr-Nkq9g

  36. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Ah Yes, the WTO

    The very organisation that El Trumpo wants to destroy.

    Frying pan meet fire?

  37. 45RPM Silver badge

    I love the way that nearly all the Brexiteers are Anonymous Coward. Talk about having confidence in your convictions.

    If you have an opinion and you sign @AC it’s tantamount to admitting that, deep down, you know that you’re wrong - but you’re too stubborn to publicly admit it.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    >The Labour parties legacy was a welfare state so large that no government can reign it in.

    Tedious argument - rather like the Tory dogma of 'make work pay' when most benefit recipients are in work which still doesn't even with the government subsidy to their employers.

    The failure to plan for social care, enforce living wages and build affordable housing (or have rent control like pretty much every other major country) is decades old, cross party and the primary driver of welfare costs.

  39. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    "Equally anyone who has any sense must have known that given how the EU works a staged, managed withdrawal was never going to happen. "

    And here we are, a day or so later and the staged and managed withdrawal is all approved apart from the HoC vote on it. 27 countries have agreed to the deal as laid out. But one country can still scupper it all. Us.

  40. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Those of us who voted in favour wanted a clean break

    There was no such concept as "clean break" or "clean Brexit" at the time of the referendum. "Clean Brexit" only appeared this year.

    2 weeks after the vote, only 35% of Leavers thought their vote meant leaving the SM.

  41. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Clean break form the EU ( will continue typing when the hysterical laughter stops).

    And anyone who wanted a "clean break" was frankly beyond pure delusion. How do you even think you can have a clean break from your neighbours? You can't even do that in your local street, let alone a continent. We need to trade, share borders, share intelligence, share manufacturing, share design, share patents and so on.

    I do recall some idiot Brexiteer posting on Twitter or somewhere like that, that we could design and build our own cars, without needing to import any parts. They didn't seem to have any details about how this would work, though.

  42. adam 40
    Pint

    Brexiteer and Proud

    Not only that - I like my Brexit Hard (especially in the morning )

    Pint logo for the good old British Pint - the one thing they never took away from us, and at the end of the day kept Britannia alive in our souls.

  43. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

    Re: FUD Central Nervous System @amanfrommars 1

    That nearly made sense to me.

    Am I going mad?

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I love the way that nearly all the Brexiteers are Anonymous Coward. Talk about having confidence in your convictions.

    Are you claiming that your name is really 45RPM? Everyone is anonymous to some extent on here. Not posting as AC reveals some information but hardly enables complete identification.

  45. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    Those of us who voted in favour wanted a clean break

    And really, really, really didn't understand international finance, treaties and trade.

    Here's a hint: Treaties and agreements that we have signed up to for the last 40 years don't magically disappear just because you want them too - any more than the mobile contract that you agreed to a month ago (and now want to cancel) will cease without you paying a leaving fee.

    It's not a difficult concept and only someone with either something to sell or very little brain indeed would realise it.

  46. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

    Re: FUD Central Nervous System @amanfrommars 1

    That nearly made sense to me.

    Am I going mad?

    No - your brain is simply tuning to a different channel.

    Of course, to the outside observer the difference might be inperceptible..

  47. EvilDrSmith

    Re: FUD Central Nervous System @amanfrommars 1

    Peter,

    >Am I going mad?

    Possibly, there seems to be a lot of it going about...

  48. HolySchmoley

    "Those of us who voted in favour wanted a clean break"

    A what?

    Impressed that you know what a "clean break" is whilst those in the politics industry have been arguing the toss for two years still don't have the vaguest idea. Or perhaps you don't either.

    Haven't Got a Clue means Haven't Got a Clue, as Ms. May might have said with the deep insight of a politician.

  49. JLV Silver badge

    and so it continues. I really wish El Reg would let Tim Worstall re-explain his rainbows and unicorns once again in a guest article. Smart guy, but one wonders in this case.

    Trump => 4 years (surely not 8?)

    Brexit will keep on giving for a long time. Long past those who voted for it too.

    I wonder if the - beneficial - aspects of the UKs traditional role in nuking some of the EU's more daft - usually French - proposals will be outweighed by its salutary inspiration on what NOT to do. Wonder what this spectacle will do for Le Pen's snake oil, for example.

    Will it out-Greece Greece in that regard? I sincerely hope not, but this is certainly on track to be some massive foot machine-gunning.

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "I really wish El Reg would let Tim Worstall re-explain his rainbows and unicorns once again in a guest article. "

    Probably too busy helping with whip rounds to pay the fines for Leave campaign money launderers.

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