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back to article Microsoft yanks the document-destroying Windows 10 October 2018 Update

Microsoft has taken the unprecedented step of pulling a Windows 10 release a mere four days after its arrival amid a clamour of users complaining about files not being where they had left them. Windows Insider supremo Dona Sarkar took to Twitter to announce that Windows fans would no longer be able to get their hands on the …

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              1. Updraft102
                Reply Icon

                Re: "were made available for other OS" @ defiler

                The average person will wonder why one application looks so weird next to the others.

                As opposed to Windows 10, where the application could have any one of three "design languages" in play, be they desktop/Win32, UWP, or UWP+Acrylic?

                I see just as many Windows applications reinventing the wheel and using their own design widgets than I do in Linux, and ever since Windows 8, it's been a half and half OS in terms of UI, and now Windows 10 has a third entry grafted on top of that (Acrylic).

                If you use one of the GNOME-derived desktops, it's actually more consistent than in Windows (in my experience at least), as applications using GTK+ (the most common kind) integrate seamlessly. If you use KDE, it's a mix of native Qt stuff (and Qt versions of things where available), and GNOME, with its ass-backwards buttons on everything.

                Any arguments about UI superiority in Windows became irrelevant post Windows 7, I think. If Windows 7 was still representative of the direction Windows was going, I probably would still be using Windows myself. Windows 10, however, is unusable, and is unfit for any purpose by design.

                3 1 Reply
      2. Peter Gathercole Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: "were made available for other OS" @AC

        You don't understand the relationship between the GPL and LGPL.

        GPL is not a barrier to writing commercial software on Linux, as all the bits you need (most development libraries, compilers and GUI support) are published under LGPL or other fairly permissive license, which allow you to compile, link and ship code without the GPL requiring you to open-source your code.

        Properly packaged Linux packages can have quite good portability within a system architecture (like x86-64), although sometimes the version checking for some of the libraries throws up unnecessary problems. But that's not much different from DLL-hell on Windows.

        Going forward, package managers like Snappy and AppImage will make Linux portability even better.

        3 0 Reply
      3. Citizen99
        Reply Icon

        Re: "were made available for other OS"

        "were made available for other OS"

        "... Desktop development for Linux is a minefield - and Linux UIs really lag behind Windows and macOS. ..."

        In what respect does the UI 'lag' ? It depends what you're looking for in your UI. Admittedly, you have to choose the desktop that suits you from a large number of available choices.

        I like a 'rock-solid' traditional UI that looks crisp and presentable without a lot of arty-farty eye-candy. Trinity Desk Environment (a fork of KDE 3.5) does that for me, and provides a huge range of GUI tools and applications. Other tastes may vary.

        Not having to run 'badly-written' corporate applications, as mentioned by previous posters, most of the Windows-only applications that I need run perfectly on Wine. A VM of W7 or XP takes care of most of the rest.

        7 0 Reply
  2. RyokuMas
    Facepalm

    Okay, I give up...

    [Me]: Right Microsoft. This is about the most monumental "shoot yourself in the foot" analogy I can come up with. Surely you can't stuff up much worse than that.

    [Microsoft]: Hold my beer...

    18 0 Reply
  3. Sixtysix
    Happy

    Never happier to be late...

    ...time to start switching off at the outlet!

    2 0 Reply
  4. Laughing Gravy
    Linux

    Yet more popcorn

    Loving all this Windows shit

    23 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yet more popcorn

      Pop some more. I am looking forward to Linux being the first OS to correctly support all thirty-two pronouns recognized by the State of New York.

      1 0 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not Cloudy Here

    My Win 10 install is a little different:

    Nothing at all with a "cloud" type login.

    No Cortana (as far as possible), no OneDrive, no MS-Office, no subscription apps, no Apps Store

    Local backups to NAS including OS disk image (very small SSD)

    Nothing at all in Windows "Home folders", minimal in /users

    All "data" on a non-windows disk mounted as several partitions (also individually backed up to NAS)

    For once my paranoia feels almost justified.

    24 0 Reply
    1. Waseem Alkurdi
      Reply Icon

      Re: Not Cloudy Here

      Tell that to Average Jo{e,anne} who just lost all his/her data because Windows decided it was fit to auto-update.

      5 0 Reply
    2. RetroTom
      Reply Icon

      Re: Not Cloudy Here

      not paranoid, that's the only sensible way to use Windows these days

      All the modern buzzwords are toxic 'features' that if you understand enough about computers you know you're best to avoid.

      17 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not Cloudy Here

        the only sensible way to use Windows these days

        Oh no, the only sensible way is to install it in a VM then delete the vhd/vmdk file.

        5 1 Reply
        1. Waseem Alkurdi
          Reply Icon
          Devil

          Re: Not Cloudy Here

          Or in other words: lock it up and throw the key

          2 0 Reply
    3. Julian 8 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Not Cloudy Here

      sounds like me, I wonder if we would loose anything or everything

      1 0 Reply
    4. mark jacobs
      Reply Icon

      Re: Not Cloudy Here

      So, have you dared tried to update?

      1 0 Reply
    5. Tony W
      Reply Icon

      Re: Not Cloudy Here

      Off-site backup?

      2 0 Reply
    6. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not Cloudy Here

      For once my paranoia feels almost justified.

      With all due respect, why on earth do you then continue using Windows? It is exactly the stupid amount of work required to keep data safe from both a security perspective and Microsoft snooping itself that made us decide that enough was enough.

      We now use a mix of Linux and MacOS desktop to get things done, and on servers we use Linux and FreeBSD. Not only does that work, it's also stable and we have no exposure to licensing games either.

      That said, we're small. Not sure at which size this would no longer work.

      6 0 Reply
  6. Hans 1
    Joke

    Microsoft QA Procedure

    "Did it install ? I do not care if it bricks the device, all I wanna know is did it install in the end! Yes ? then we ship it!" (Microsoft should register that)

    18 0 Reply
  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh dear. This is even a bigger mess than the previous windows mega updates - and that's saying something. Their management needs Linus to give them a lecture about not breaking things.

    5 0 Reply
    1. Waseem Alkurdi
      Reply Icon

      Never break luserland, they say.

      The problem *is* *in* *the* *userland*. So perhaps Debian should teach them how to implement Debian Stable. When you measure solidity of rocks, they compare them to Debian Stable.

      10 2 Reply
      1. Adam 1
        Reply Icon

        > So perhaps Debian should teach them how to implement Debian Stable

        I think they've started by studying systemd.

        6 0 Reply
        1. Waseem Alkurdi
          Reply Icon
          Pint

          You made me laugh for two minutes straight! ^_^

          This one is on me (non-alcoholic beer though xD)

          3 0 Reply
    2. DJV Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Mushroom

      "Their management needs Linus to give them a lecture about not breaking things."

      Hah, I'd love to see that! And just when Linus has promised to tone his language down - this would (quite rightly) get the sweary fountain running at full blast again!

      15 0 Reply
      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        Megaphone

        Re: "Their management needs Linus to give them a lecture about not breaking things."

        yeah, Linus has GREAT passion for quality, and those snowflake feelies out there, who can't take anything even remotely resembling criticism and need 'safe spaces' to deal with even the most trivial of life's problems, ALWAYS mistake 'passion' for 'anger' because, to them, it looks the same.

        Sometimes, it takes a DRILL SERGEANT to get things moving in the right direction, with a few swift ass-kicks and a lot of yelling, insults, and profanity. That goes DOUBLE when the development team CONSISTS OF A BUNCH OF OVERPAID, UNDER-CHALLENGED, SPOILED CHILDREN! [right Micro-shaft?]

        12 3 Reply
        1. Waseem Alkurdi
          Reply Icon
          Thumb Up

          Re: "Their management needs Linus to give them a lecture about not breaking things."

          Yep, @bombastic bob takes down the house once more!

          (How's that Windows 10 on your laptop going? ;-P )

          3 0 Reply
        2. agatum
          Reply Icon
          Pint

          Re: "Their management needs Linus to give them a lecture about not breaking things."

          ALWAYS mistake 'passion' for 'anger' because, to them, it looks the same.

          For once I wholeheartedly agree with bob and his signature 'all odd words capitalized' writing style.

          2 0 Reply
  8. Sixtysix
    FAIL

    Insiders - should be better than this

    "As an Insider, it pains me. Beyond belief. — Abby Jane Hicks (@AbbyJaneHicks64"

    Whilst I have tremendous respect for all those willing to put their main systems in the line of fire by working exclusively on the Insiders ring, I think Abby is not representing the majority of Insider Contributors well:

    We were told to expect that StrangeEffects will be a regular occurrence.

    We are clearly warned that BadThings might happen.

    We are absolutely encouraged to keep backups.

    At the same time I have a LOT of sympathy for Steven who has obviously backed out of Insider (as have I). Not sure about ninja and cats, but the lack of follow through is one of the reasons why my main machine and backup have been switched, and my input to the programme has been zero for some considerable time.

    8 0 Reply
    1. DJV Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Insiders - should be better than this

      My input to the Insiders programme has on most occasions been to say "stop fucking this or that up" - but they don't, they quite happily continue to fuck more and more things up every day.

      14 0 Reply
    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Insiders - should be better than this

      We were told to expect that StrangeEffects will be a regular occurrence.

      We are clearly warned that BadThings might happen.

      We are absolutely encouraged to keep backups.

      When did they tell you that you might have to travel from Ottawa to Toronto to get your system fixed? Just curious.

      4 0 Reply
  9. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Stop

    Wrong person is announcing this

    Windows Insider supremo Dona Sarkar took to Twitter to announce that Windows fans would no longer be able to get their hands on the afflicted build.

    She's in charge of Windows Insider, not Windows. Or perhaps we're finally being officially told that every day is beta test day?

    15 0 Reply
    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Trollface

      Didn't you get the memo ?

      9 0 Reply
      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Didn't you get the memo ?

        Hell, my Win10 machine gets the memo several times each month. The text is a little strange - something about "You need to reboot your computer to make Windows even better!". But the meaning is clear: "Fuck you, we own this box, and we're going to push our crap software onto it whenever we like".

        5 0 Reply
    2. #define INFINITY -1
      Reply Icon

      Re: Wrong person is announcing this

      Branch-readiness "targeted" is the new beta.

      4 0 Reply
  10. Dwarf

    Dear Microsoft

    You need an effective test and QA function.

    Hopefully you can see the damage your current approach is causing to to remaining customers and how its hardening the resolve of ex customers.not to consider MS products again. As they say, once bitten twice shy.

    Oh and one other thing - don't do anything to my data on my computer without asking me in plain language first. Never assume you know best as you don't know what I use my computer for and in what manner..

    16 0 Reply
    1. Tigra 07
      Reply Icon
      Thumb Up

      Re: Dear Microsoft

      Windows 10 got me to research and buy specific hardware and learn how to use Linux just to escape it. KDE Plasma seems years ahead of Windows.

      16 4 Reply

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Teiwaz
          Reply Icon

          Re: Dear Microsoft

          KDE is years ahead as much as a polished turd.

          For instance:

          https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Do1LKU1XgAMEzkS.jpg

          Also - depending on how it was configured by the maintainer of a distro - dragging a running program from the task bar to the desktop could present you with the following options:

          - Copy

          - Move

          - Link

          What are we operating on exactly? The application.desktop file, the one that resides in the "start menu". So if you opt for "move", the app is gone rom the start menu.

          I've no idea what the user was trying to do in the linked image, so it's hard to use it as an argument for anything. I've come across Windows users running Office and all their documents installed to the Desktop dir (the system slowdown was horrendous).

          The Plasma desktop doesn't really have desktop icons (per se, there are options using folder views of the Desktop folder on Home).

          The Control KDE gives you over your desktop is almost totally absolute, that includes the ability to mess it up.

          I think you are trying to use KDE like it was Windows and rubbishing it when it doesn't respond the same way.

          I'm not saying all are perfect, or that any of them are. Maybe it would be nice if there was one desktop with more attention paid to it so it shone like a diamond of perfection, but reality is, everyone has their own idea of perfection.

          Go look up that XKCD about competing standards...

          13 1 Reply
          1. Long John Silver
            Reply Icon
            Pirate

            Re: Dear Microsoft

            Also, it should be borne in mind that the objections were aimed toward the user interface alone. With Windows the interface, seemingly, is inseparable from the code for computing applications. No so with Linux wherein there is free choice among interfaces ranging from the command line, through simple graphical display, and up to 'all-singing all-dancing' displays convergent with Windows.

            7 1 Reply
          2. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Dear Microsoft

            That seems to be a loop, cased by the Desktop icon being put on the desktop.

            Maybe it's a fringe case, still it allows the user to open an endless number of self-referencing views.

            The same thing would happen if one tries to click on - for instance - the network settings on Linux Mint; in this case the app will happily open multiple times. Other Linux flavours / Operating systems prevent this from happening.

            This in the end is just lack of polish that has been persisting for more than a decade.

            0 1 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Dear Microsoft

        Despite being one of the best options available, together with Budgie and Pantheon (used by Elementary OS), I still find that KDE is "years ahead" as much as a polished turd.

        For instance:

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Do1LKU1XgAMEzkS.jpg

        Also - depending on how it was configured by the maintainer of a distro - dragging a running program from the task bar to the desktop could present you with the following options: Copy / Move / Link

        What are we actually copying/moving/linking? The $(application).desktop file that resides in the "start menu", so if you opt for "move", the app is gone from the start menu.

        These are just two of the annoyances I have with KDE. Of course the good thing about open source is that I can choose between different polished turds, such as Gnome 3 (dumbed down after each release), Budgie (still buggy), XFCE (still ugly) and all of them will come with their own bugs or visual inconsistencies that will upset me on a daily basis nonetheless.

        3 6 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Dear Microsoft

          About KDE GUI, take a look at the "Visual papercuts" section here:

          http://www.ocsmag.com/2017/02/17/the-state-of-plasma/

          Note how most of the criticism is still valid after 18 months.

          If you don't notice anything wrong, and cannot spot this kind of glitches in the various UIs, I envy you. Seriously.

          1 2 Reply
          1. Tigra 07
            Reply Icon
            Facepalm

            Re: Dear Microsoft

            "About KDE GUI, take a look at the "Visual papercuts" section here:

            http://www.ocsmag.com/2017/02/17/the-state-of-plasma/

            Note how most of the criticism is still valid after 18 months."

            Ah, so no serious bugs, just design changes that are questionable or half-arsed? You had me worried for almost a second. Anyone can nitpick.

            3 0 Reply
      3. Tigra 07
        Reply Icon
        Trollface

        Re: Dear Microsoft

        https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NSPOHiZ3zLQ/maxresdefault.jpg

        I too can present an image of a bug and use it to claim it's host OS is the worst thing since unsliced bread...No OS is immune to bugs.

        4 1 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Dear Microsoft

          I did not say that Linux is a terrible OS, I said that KDE, with all its polish, it is still a polished turd.

          My criticism is against the GUI, not the underlying OS. And because OSS is all about choice and "competing" projects, I am still waiting for someone to finish the race when it comes to polish and attention to detail.

          My preference in this space goes to Elementary OS that happens to be the most polished so far, then to KDE Plasma (whose defaults can still be left behind depending on the distro adopting it), Then Budgie..

          Said that, just to be clear, I find Windows 10 flat interface a visual abomination, and the Windows 7 just visually passable, but dated.

          If I could go back, I would still use the Windows Classic interface from Windows 2000, and once again it is not just how elements are presented on the screen - I could just get a Linux theme for that - to me it is about padding, alignment, balance between element size and all the other things that most of the people cannot / do not notice that on Linux are still off because are not perceived as important.

          5 1 Reply
  11. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Trollface

    Well thank goodness

    Thank goodness this release wasn't changing much, right ?

    Right ?

    2 0 Reply
  12. Wolfclaw
    FAIL

    Going to be a lot of dodgy calls from can I say it wihtout being racist, India from so calle WIndows Support saying your files have been zappe dby W10 update, can we remote in and fix. If Microsoft want us to trust them to do updates as and when as a service, they need to cut the BS, accept insider program is not QA tetsing and get their sh!t organised or just give up !

    12 0 Reply
    1. Long John Silver
      Reply Icon
      Pirate

      These 'entrepreneurs' are to be found closer to home too.

      3 1 Reply
  13. SVV

    questionable conclusion

    "If you have installed it, and everything is hunky dory (as it is for us), then there is no need to worry."

    Having read the story, I think there is every need to worry if you use this OS. Nobody knows if everything is "hunky dory" : not even Microsoft did.

    7 0 Reply
  14. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    Surely a company the size and might of Microsoft would have the manpower to have worked out what the hell caused this almighty clusterfuck by now?

    They should publish what it was that went wrong ASAP so that competent technicians (i.e. not Microsoft support) can fix it themselves.

    I bet the scammers will have produced a web page saying "call this toll free number to recover your files after bad update lost them" before Microsoft admit to and publish whatever the hell went wrong.

    5 0 Reply
  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Good criticism will only make your product better

    It's "funny" how how many companies try to bring on board experts working hard for free, but are ready too boot them as soon as they don't act like groupies chanting to the world how great the product is.

    It happened to me, and some people I know (on a different product) - complains based on facts are even the worst, because they put under the sunlight really, often big, issues companies like to keep under the rug. Just, this way, they stumble upon them over and over and keep on board only worshipers who can't find real issues even when slapped on the face with them.

    5 0 Reply
  16. Sureo

    "where Windows 10 goes from here"

    Dust off Windows 7, apply all those updates since SP1, and release it as Windows 20.

    21 2 Reply

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