back to article Oh snap! UK Prime Minister Theresa May calls June election

Prime Minister Theresa May has called a snap general election to be held on 8 June. The 11am statement – delivered 15 minutes earlier than political journalists had been led to believe – confirmed that an election would be held in seven weeks. In a veiled reference to last June's referendum vote to leave the European Union, …

Anonymous Coward

Re: Of course they won't listen

"This is a story about a general election, not an EU one."

Er... you're aware that virtually the only reason we're having a general election now is for strategic and political reasons related to Brexit- right?!

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Re: Of course they won't listen

FFS do a bit of research - Thatcher did not take the UK into Europe. You will find that there are about 10 years between these events.

As for extortion, you will also find that every EU member has their own form of 'special deal' - the UK is not the first nor the last. Read the details of the Common Agricultural Policy - it would be hilarious if it were not so tragic and wasteful.

But you're right about the pound of flesh - the UK has unfortunately shown that not only has the EU project lost its way, it also shows little intention of reforming and engaging with the population to find it again.

You must be prepared for the consequences if you call somebody's bluff and they actually do what they said they would *. So yes - having exposed the arrogance and short-sightedness of the EU commission by showing them to having failed has no doubt made them somewhat upset.

Tusk and Junckers are pissed as they have managed to lose parts of the empire almost single handedly by refusing to acknowledge issues that almost all member states are grappling with.

A better solution would have been to adopt the Hungarian position, ignore democratic process and just impose whatever measures were felt necessary and wait for the EU to throw the UK out - it probably would never have happened.

But in a way it could possibly be the best thing that could have happened to the EU - assuming that they recognise and do something about it. Otherwise expect this departure to be a starting point.

Said with an incredibly heavy heart as somebody who truly wants a European project to succeed and hoped it would never have got this far.

But without destruction there is rarely reinvention ....

* That also goes for the numpties that called the UK referendum without a plan if the 'wrong result' ever happened.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Of course they won't listen

> Thatcher only wrangled her way in because ...

What are you on? Britain was in the EEC long before Thatcher came to power and the EU didn't come into existence until John Major's stint in office.

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Re: Of course they won't listen

"Thatcher only wrangled her way in because she was convinced the easiest way to keep it in check was to get inside and veto anything they didn't like."

Look, I know facts have a nasty habit of getting in the way of a rant but UK joined the EEC as it then was in 1973. Thatcher won her first general election in 1979. I don't think even the most determined alternative-facter would argue that 1979 came before 1973, at least not this side of 1BC.

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Re: Of course they won't listen

"you're aware that virtually the only reason we're having a general election now is for strategic and political reasons related to Brexit- right?!"

Rubbish. It's everything to do with Labour being 21 points behind in the polls due to being an ongoing muppet show - and May needing a good excuse to change her mind on an early election after repeatedly saying she wouldn't go to the polls. Very little to do with Brexit...

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Re: Of course they won't listen

Yes, facts do get in the way of a rant. Thatcher was secretary (of education ?) during the 1975 national referendum.

I do admit on being a bit low on knowledge of British political history, but if memory serves, Labour was AGAINST joining, while the tories DID advise the public to vote for it.

I didn't really follow politics back then, but from what I remember what I picked up later Thatcher was one of the driving forces within the Tory establishment to join, although at that time already expressing serious reservations about EU meddling in 'local' politics.

I SEEM to remember (but I'm not at al sure of this) Labour getting elected in the subsequent general election on the promice of tryong to reverse the decision to join, and failing miserably.

But if you have factual information to the contarary please let us know. Always eager to learn. Not big on foul language, though.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Of course they won't listen

but if memory serves, Labour was AGAINST joining, while the tories DID advise the public to vote for it.

Labour was split, about ⅔ the cabinet were in favour of the EC, but a significant part was opposed to it.

I SEEM to remember (but I'm not at al sure of this) Labour getting elected in the subsequent general election on the promice of tryong to reverse the decision to join

No, they campaigned on the promise of renegotiation and then a referendum on whether to stay in (and doesn't that sound familiar) but it wasn't a major issue in the election itself. During the referendum campaign the party was split. The general mood at the time, certainly in England, was that staying in the EC was preferable. It was the Scots & N. Irish who were more sceptical back then.

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Coat

A Snap Election eh?

The best thing about a Snap election is that the winner gets the power.

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Joke

Re: A Snap Election eh?

With that post it's gettin' it's gettin' it's gettin' kinda hectic

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Wow - so all those dossiers the CPC got were going to lead to convictions?

Just a thought.

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Anonymous Coward

If anything recent elections have told us that you can't be sure of anything. I think she will actually reduce her majority.

I also would caution writing off labour as corbyn's socialist agenda will probably be looking better than what the Tories are currently doing to the country to some.

The lib dems are also going to make gains from pro-eu supporters with very short memories.

If we had a party that worked for the people as they should then all the above would be out.

p.s. I didn't forget UKIP, I just think they are a bunch of snobby racist clowns.

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Pint

A pint for calling UKIP's spade a spade.

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@AC Generally agree with you but feel an urge to respond to your slight about "pro-eu supporters with very short memories."

Pro Eu supporters do not have short memories, just more pressing concerns for right now than to let long term grudges get in the way. The Tories could not have done a better job of rehabilitating the Lib-Dems. They certainly did a better job of it than the Lib-Dems themselves.

I have to laugh quietly to my self as I listen to all the pundits still talking about polls as if they were glowing pearls of wisdom uttered by god himself. They utter an aside about uncertainty of polls then on they gallop head on into their wilderness of certainty as if the past few years never happened.

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"If anything recent elections have told us that you can't be sure of anything. I think she will actually reduce her majority."

A proportion of people who voted leave did so ti stick it to the government and may do so again. But Labour seem to still be self-destructing, which may balance that out. This ones a tough call as to which way it will go. I'd quite like to see another coalition to put the brakes on Mays ambitions, but on the other hand, we, as a country, don't want to be dithering during the Brexit negotiations. And don't trust Corbyn with his hands on the reins. At this stage I have no idea who I might vote for, although any vote against Labour genuinely won't count anyway. We've had a Labour MP almost since the Labour party was founded with little signs of a sea change in this constituency.

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The lib dems are also going to make gains from pro-eu supporters with very short memories.

No need for short memories. Just a tradeoff: five years of socialist nonsense, vs a lifetime of isolationist nonsense and a PM making a blatant power-grab against Parliaments (plural, because it's not just Westminster: Scotland and NI also have views).

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Anonymous Coward

" A pint for calling UKIP's spade a spade."

Ace Nnorom wouldn't be amused...

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Recovery

US tech firms hiked prices following the Brexit vote, citing the fall in the value of the pound versus the dollar – a move branded "Brexploitation" following the inevitable recovery, after which suppliers' prices did not fall again.

Sorry, which recovery was this? The £ still seems to be down at about $1.26 compared to $1.50 before the referendum, and between $1.5-$1.7 at many points during the previous few years.

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Breaking news:

Jeremy Corbyn plans an extended summer holiday starting on June 9th

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Re: Breaking news:

Shirley May 9th - why waste so much energy ?

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Re: Breaking news:

Nah June is about right. It will take the Party that long to decide upon a new leader. Shouldn't be hard when there will only be around 100 MP's to choose from. The problem will be with the Union block vote. They'll want another lapdog to boss around.

Sad state of affairs for the opposition party.

We need an effective opposition but at the moment the Labour party is not it. IT is a party withing a party (Momentum) which I thought was illegal (in party rules) after the episode in the 1980's and the likes of Derek Hatton.

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Re: Breaking news:

@Steve Davies 3

"The problem will be with the Union block vote. They'll want another lapdog to boss around."

The Union "block vote" was abolished by John Smith 20 years ago. Corbyn has won two leadership elections thanks to his popularity with party members.

"We need an effective opposition but at the moment the Labour party is not it. IT is a party withing a party (Momentum) which I thought was illegal (in party rules)"

The lack of effective opposition is due to the spoiling tactics of Progress - the real "party in a party". Sadly, there are too many Labour MPs who would rather another five years of tory rule, than back a leader from the left wing of the party.

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Anonymous Coward

Hmm...

*eats another spoonful of dog food*

Hmm, can someone lend me a pen to vote? I seem to have pawned mine.

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Re: Hmm...

Have you seen the price of dog food recently?

Regards

A dog owner.

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1PTP SUX

Whatever the winner, (s)he will be chosen by a minority of voters. How could (s)he have any democratic legitimacy when a majority of voters oppose that choice by voting for somebody else?

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Anonymous Coward

Workers

Never vote Tory

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Re: Workers

Doesn't mean workers vote Labour. I predict a largish swing to the Lib Dems in the "employed counties" and turnout lower everywhere else, because really what's the point?

PS. Can I also add that hope that the Labour party hurry up and split already? In their current form they're no use to anyone. Enough infighting - split into two and do your fighting at the polling booth like everyone else.

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Re: Workers

Workers

Never vote Tory

Working-class Tories are a lot more common than you might think, especially post-war and even more so in recent years (who else buys the Daily Fail?). The classic example is Alf Garnett, although I suspect if they could make 'Til Death Us Do Part now (which they couldn't, the BBC is far too PC) he'd probably be having a hard time deciding between UKIP and a Tory party with a female leader.

The most telling thing about that series was that Johnny Speight wrote him to be a figure of ridicule, and was siad to be quite upset that so many people identified with Garnett.

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Re: Alf Garnett

Totally off-topic, but did you know there was a German spin-off in the 1970ies? Alfred Tetzlaff. Same phenomenom, though - meant as satire, lots of "finally someone tells it how it is" comments.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Workers

"Workers

Never vote Tory"

Growing up in the 1950/60s working class it always seemed to me that many people were actually Tory in their basic outlook. Labour had an "elite" containing some apparently more liberal people - but most of the Party followers whom one might term "workers" did not ascribe to liberal policies.

My father, a miner, was a Labour activist in a Labour safe seat. One day the chairman of the housing committee opened a new row of council houses. A nice small redevelopment in the middle of town - unlike the large estates that were being built on the outskirts of the city. The street was named in this councillor's honour. A few days later he was the first occupant of one of the houses. That was when my father quit the Party.

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Re: Workers

"if they could make 'Til Death Us Do Part now (which they couldn't, the BBC is far too PC) "

The BBC recently remade an episode of "Till Death Do Us Part" with Simon Day playing Alf Garnett.

"The most telling thing about that series was that Johnny Speight wrote him to be a figure of ridicule, and was siad to be quite upset that so many people identified with Garnett."

Al Murray gets a lot of abuse on twitter from people upset that his character is a parody.

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Re: Workers

"Workers

Never vote Tory"

Surely you mean non workers never vote Tory?

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Politics as Practised in the Ways of Today Supporting Yesterdays are certainly no Great Games Play.*

Mrs May is very fond of saying that politics is not a game, and yet here we all are, playing their games?:-) ..... giving the oxygen of publicity to their bonfires of desires and vanity projects/secret exclusive executive programs.

The difference nowadays though, and this is a fact which it would be self destructive to deny and/or attack, is that some who may be more than just a chosen few, are considerably smarter than any past or current phorm of opposition or competition are able to understand and defeat.

Or would you like to disagree to prove the point valid?

*And that is why No10 actions are more Brian Rix Whitehall farce than anything else remotely exciting.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Politics as Practised in the Ways of Today Supporting Yesterdays are...

"Mrs May is very fond of saying that politics is not a game"

Would this be the same Mrs May whose predecessor instigated the EU vote purely as a very badly-judged sop to placate the internal infighting of his (and her) own party's hard-right Eurosceptic tendency, the same Mrs May whose (now) Foreign Secretary became a flagwaver for the "Leave" camp, due to a sudden conversion that had absolutely *nothing* to do with political opportunism and advancing his own career?

The same Mrs May whose colleagues clearly had no plan in place for what would happen if the Leave voters did win, and who flailed about rudderless in the aftermath, stabbing each other in the back (thank you, Gove 90). It's not as if there was nothing more important than the future of the United Kingdom at stake, is it?

It's not as if the fact the Britain's membership of the EU was treated throughout as a political football for the Tories' own political ends is "playing games", is it?

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Re: Politics as Practised in the Ways of Today Supporting Yesterdays are...

EVAN: Ok huddle time, huddle time, huddle time, gather round guys. Great day today team (everybody “Yes!”) OK Ok that was a sliver star day. Ok tomorrow I want gold. Ok You see selling books is a game. It has rules. You need to learn those rules, yeah, and you need to get serious about them, because it’s not a game. Ok home time, off you go. You coming Manny?

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Who to choose?

It seems to me that Labour's best chance of nabbing this is to firmly oppose Brexit and announce that, if they win, they’ll pull us back from the brink and back into the E.U. They won’t though because, like the Conservative Party, they support Brexit.

Personally, I don’t support Brexit - and that means that there’s only one party (in England) that I can vote for - Liberal Democrat. If you oppose Brexit too then I urge you to vote Lib Dem this time round, let them mend the bridge to Europe (and then, if you so wish, vote them out again in 2022, once we’re safely ensconced in the E.U. again). If you’re in Scotland, of course, then all I can do is envy your position - you’ve got an obvious, and powerful, anti-Brexit party in the S.N.P.

Of course, most voters (even ardently anti-Brexit voters) won’t vote Lib Dem, fearing it to be a wasted vote. It probably is too, it's a one in a million shot, but from where I’m sitting it’s still the best option that we have.

If you’re pro-Brexit of course, then you’re spoiled for choice - Conservative, Labour, UKIP, BNP, English Democrats, NF…

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Re: Who to choose?

It seems to me that Labour's best chance of nabbing this is to dump Corbyn

FTFY

I guess they won't get around to doing that until they've been humiliated again. Even then Militant 2015 seems to be so in control of the party that won't bother. After all militant policies worked so well in the 1980s didn't they? How does 18 years out of government sound?

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Re: Who to choose?

No idea.

Personally, I'm waiting for a Brexploitation film starring Teresa May. So far this seems to be the only option that makes sense.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Who to choose?

"Personally, I'm waiting for a Brexploitation film starring Teresa May."

Will she wear leather trousers - at least for a few seconds?

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Re: Who to choose?

The only way to avoid hard Tory Brexit under the skilled watch of Gove, Johnson, etc, is to vote to the most viable party to the left of the Tories in your particular constituency.

So if it's Tory-Labour-LibDem, vote Labour. If it's Tory-LibDem-Labour, vote LibDem. If it's Labour-Tory-whoever, vote Labour. If it's LibDem-whoever, vote LibDem.

Doesn't matter if that goes against all you believe in (apart from opposing Hard Brexit), you don't have to say who you voted for, and if Brexit is cancelled then imagine not having years of Brexit news in the media! So you deal with it. Tactical voting.

If you want hard Brexit, then you cannot trust Shifty U-Turn May, so vote UKIP.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Who to choose?

If you’re pro-Brexit of course, then you’re spoiled for choice - Conservative, Labour, UKIP, BNP, English Democrats, NF…

Current polls show Brexit as more popular than during the referendum, running at 55% last week. Hardly surprising that a majority of parties, across the spectrum, support it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Who to choose?

"I guess they won't get around to doing that until they've been humiliated again."

And when they try, lots of people like me who paid a few quid to join Labour just to vote for the idiot will vote to keep him in and thereby keep them out!

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Re: Who to choose?

I've been looking at our constituency result from 2015. Tories ~20,000, Labour ~ 17000, UKIP ~ 8000, Lib dem ~ 900. My wife and I have spent the best part of an hour trying to decide whether to vote tactically. Clearly LIb Dems are they way to go if you are anti-brexit but I'm not certain they could claw back ~ 12,000 votes in a constituency which has always switched between Con and Lab. So if it's tactical we have to vote Labour which would be really painful given their current shambolic showing.

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Re: Who to choose?

Labours core vote (the working poor) was the bit of the country voting most heavily in favour of Brexit. If Labour turned around and said that they are going to block Brexit if they get elected then Labour would be utterly annihilated as their core vote decides to sit at home watching TV instead of turning out to vote.

Therefore, any Labour leader with a shred of intelligence would not make such a commitment.

Of course, if Labour doesn't make that commitment then the self described intellectuals who don't have the intellect to come to this conclusion themselves will vote for the lib dems, which simply splits the vote and clears the way for a Conservative victory of historic proportions, at which point those same "intellectuals" will then turn on the labour leader like a pack of rapid dogs for losing the election.

Hence why May is going for the election now, where she also stands to gain the UKIP vote back.

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Re: Who to choose?

@ ITnoob

My advice- vote honestly. You can never be happy voting for the lesser of 2 evils when the one you see as right has to be abandoned. I say this as someone who voted UKIP previously (I know your leaning the other way) and it might make you unpopular or people might try to blame you for not tactically supporting Satan instead of Beelzebub but they are the ones lying to themselves.

You are in a better position than we were in, none of the mainstream parties wanted brexit as an option and if you still count the libs as a main party they are the lone voice to do what you want. But this is a general election and brexit isnt the only policy so be sure it is what you want.

Simply people complain about there only being 2 parties and then tactically vote for one of those 2 parties. They can never be happy and never be satisfied with the result they are always against the government and moan the gov doesnt represent the people or listen. Vote honestly and win or lose you know you did right. And even though UKIP lost the last general election they still won.

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Re: Who to choose?

You should also consider the 2010 result before making a decision, though I agree it looks like the anti-Tory vote where you live is probably Labour. :-/

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Re: Who to choose?

Simply people complain about there only being 2 parties and then tactically vote for one of those 2 parties.

It's the electoral system that favours the two-party system: see also the US.

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Re: Who to choose?

So if it's tactical we have to vote Labour

If you assume that the UKIPpers vote Tory for the same reason it won't really change things no matter which way you vote, will it?

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Happy

Re: Who to choose?

"Labours core vote (the working poor) was the bit of the country voting most heavily in favour of Brexit".

You seem to believe they are all too dump to realize they have been conned. While there might be both winners and losers with a Brexit the working poor will not belong to the winners.

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Anonymous Coward

I wonder what laws they plan to chuck through under the fence between now and the end of this parliament.

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