back to article Windows 7's grip on the enterprise desktop is loosening

Microsoft last week updated its Windows 10 usage data, claiming 270 million devices now run its newest operating system. We've updated our numbers, too, namely the three sources we use to assess desktop operating system market share. And on our numbers, if Windows 10 is on 270 million devices Windows 7 is on about 750 million …

Windows

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

@mmeler

"Win10 installs itself when you allow it to do so. "

Oh FFS!

My daughter would have had in on her win8.1 laptop if I hadn't caught it in the act of installing winx.

Accept the fact the Microshaft have been very underhand in pushing out "accidental" upgrade commands.

Otherwise, do fuck off.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

So you walked in and it was upgrading itself. And your daughter hadn't clicked on "Upgrade Me" or anything. And she hadn't done it and then denied that she'd done it when she saw you freaking out because it was upgrading?

Yeah, OK.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

I've noticed many of the the 'upgraded by itself comments' are from individuals who like to use obscene language in their posts - I wonder if there's any connection? Tin foil hats - maybe Cortana is listening to you and wreaking her revenge on your crude aggressive attittude to language and life.

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Windows

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

@ anonymous shitarse

Too scared to put your id out there?

No, she had come up for the weekend and I was updating her computer. In case arseholes like you forget, M$ "apologised" last October (subs please check date)for forcing an upgrade without permission.

So you can go the way of mmeler (who he?) and fuck off.

I see all the WINx fanboys are out in force today.

(all seven of them.)

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Windows

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

More ac.

Anonymous your name is winx fanboy.

Obscene because your anonymous people are trying to re-write history.

Cortana, as we all know, is a fictional artificial intelligence character.

Like yourself.

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Windows

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

I've noticed that the "It couldn't have upgraded by itself comments" are from anonymous winx fanboys. How strange. For all you poor M$ amnesiacs out there, here it is again ;

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/15/pushy_windows_10/

For those averse to clicking on links, here is the appropriate text :

"After a to and fro between El Reg and Microsoft's spokespeople, it has emerged that the "optional" Window 10 update should not have been ticked, and was a blunder by Redmond.

"As part of our effort to bring Windows 10 to existing genuine Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 customers, the Windows 10 upgrade may appear as an optional update in the Windows Update (WU) control panel. This is an intuitive and trusted place people go to find Recommended and Optional updates to Windows," a Microsoft spokesperson told us on Friday.

"In the recent Windows update, this option was checked as default; this was a mistake and we are removing Windows 10 from Windows Update for users that have not reserved a copy of Windows 10."

A mistake. Yeh, right....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

"http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/15/pushy_windows_10/

For those averse to clicking on links, here is the appropriate text[...]"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/15/pushy_windows_10/

I'm averse to clicking on links that don't, well ... click.

(NOT the same A/C)

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Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

"I'm averse to clicking on links that don't click."

Oh, poor dab, copy & paste too hard?

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Silver badge

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

Cortana is getting vengeance on people who use bad language by forcing upgrades to the OS that contains Cortana? How does Cortana manage to take actions before it is even installed?

While I tend to watch my language, I note that it could be that people who have found themselves with an unwanted upgrade to 10 are angrier than the average bear, and thus more likely to use profanity.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

@mmeier

You were doing really well until that last 'Fact' that Win10 installs itself when you allow it to do so and ONLY then.

I have lost count of the number of people who have had Win10 forced onto their machine by MS.

The GWX software was not installed by choice it was installed by MS abusing the Update Mechanism in Win7/8/8.1.

The subsequent updates are then 'forced' through by MS making the update 'Recomended' or 'Security Update' which again the update mechanism will allow through, if you have 'Windows Update' set to recommended settings.

The only way to take full control is to Stop ALL Updates and constantly check all updates by hand to see if they kick off the install.

Depending on a level of knowledge or experience to avoid an install is NOT choice by any description.

Once it has been allowed to start the install most none-IT users will not be able to stop it without the risk of rendering the machine corrupt with Win 7/8/81 not performing as intended, if at all.

I have been building Computers of all flavours/OSes for 30+ years as part of my various 'Techie' roles in IT.

I know how to configure Windows to not install updates automatically, yet it still managed to get past and install on a few machines, before I locked it down from ANY updates to stop the GWX grief and/or the sneaking in of the 'odd' KBxxxxx update.

People ARE being upgraded without their permission ...... FACT!!

MS is constantly changing the 'Attack' vectors to achieve this aim.

Tricking users into clicking something to start the install is not a 'choice'.

Making a reboot, to complete installation of updates, start the Upgrade is not 'choice'.

It is not possible that ALL reports of forced installs are from 'Dumb Users' (including myself).

The use of the word 'choice' is just semantic gymnastics worthy of 'Marketing Drones'. :)

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This post has been deleted by its author

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

captain badmouth, you are talking out of your arse. Windows 10 does not install itself.

Even the link you provided didnt affect all Windows users and would only affect those who chose to automatically download and install the available updates.

As we can tell from you malformed posts, she didnt let her laptop automatically install Windows 10, nor did she click on a button to automatically install it - you already told us you were updating her latop. Did you just see it in the list of available updates or something? This made your blood boil so much? The mere thought of your daughter using something made by Microsoft was so disgusting that you had to go out there and add to the blazing bonfire that is the current public perception of Windows 10 by, wait for it, lying?

Fuck me, I wonder how many more lying cunts like you are out there.

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Flame

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

@1Rafayal

Let's get one thing straight, the person that was me back in October never thought that M$ would put a nefarious "update to winx now" in the recommended security updates. I was merely making sure her laptop was secure and downloading such. I know know better, naive windows user Captain Badmouth is no more, he now has a toothcomb to hand for all windows updates. Not only does my daughter use Microshaft she has a full paid-for office package on her laptop for her work. I also use win7 pro. My issue with M$ is the sneaky, underhand way they've gone about pushing winx onto the windows user community. My daughter is not that computer literate, if not for me being there I would no doubt have been trying to roll back a winx installation last October. That is the problem which would affect most home computer users in this country. I am not a lying cunt as you suggest. You, however, seem to be in denial.

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

Windows

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

"Wait, which lie would you like us to believe, the one where you found the Windows 10 installation checked as a recommended update, or the one where your daughters laptop was magically installing Windows 10 all by itself, only to be heroically rolled back by you?"

As I pointed out above, one did not expect M$ to roll out a OS update in such a way. Why do you have trouble accepting that this is thoroughly underhand?

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Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

So, I should be mortally outraged at MS for having automatic updates? And this should upset me? They found a problem, they fixed it and took it off the update list.

You, on the other hand are just spouting endless bullshit.

What is it in your life that has made you so insecure that you feel you need to lie about something so trivial?

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Holmes

Re: Mobes replacing enterprise desktops?

"So, I should be mortally outraged at MS for having automatic updates? And this should upset me? They found a problem, they fixed it and took it off the update list.

You, on the other hand are just spouting endless bullshit.

What is it in your life that has made you so insecure that you feel you need to lie about something so trivial?"

Yawn.

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One wonders why sales of hardware and sales/activations of an OS that has a smaller footprint that Win7 are mashed together. Basically every box that could run Win7 "fast enough" can run Win10 just fine (some notebooks with missing drivers excluded) so this is a first (well second if you count Vista) time that the new Windows version does NOT call for a new hardware.

My Win10 systems are basically all "2010/11 vintage" (The Helix is a 2014 production run but the design is older) and all run as fast/faster unter W10 than they did under W7 (or W8 in case of the Lenovo). Same for other systems of similar age. So the hardware stays (maybe a new drive) and the OS changes.

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Not sure why you got the downvote.

From what I understand, after the major criticism MS got over Vista, they spent a lot of time and effort optimising Windows 7 to make it faster than Vista, and bring things like memory usage and CPU cycles down.

MS, and with a focus on getting Windows to run on more mobile devices, continued that effort with Win 8.0, then 8.1 and now 10.

Benchmarks and other analysis done over the years shows this is the case, with things like games running faster on the same hardware with the newer Windows versions.

So other than driver issues with older hardware, anything built for Vista/Win 7, should be faster and have a a reduced memory usage, if Windows 10 is installed.

PS: This isn't a comment on the rest of Win 10, I still don't like the snooping or the GUI changes, and will stick to Win 7 for now for personal use.

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the down votes were probably because something sensible was said about Windows.

Point to note, the dreaded telemetry and data slurping were added to Windows 7 & 8: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01/microsoft_backports_data_slurp_to_windows_78_via_patches/

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Silver badge

But a lot of us never had to deal with that telemetry, since we have the option of choosing which updates are installed on our PCs (hint, hint). I've never had them on my Win7 machines, nor have I had to deal with GWX.

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The dreaded telemetry

A tool I have found to be useful in combatting the telemetry in Win 7-10, is "SpybotAntiBeacon" from Safer-Networking Ltd. You can find it here.

I use that, the GWX control panel, and a beady gaze cast over any Windows updates on offer, to keep the wolf from the door.

So far, so good, although my resentment grows daily at the effort I must go through to simply, not upgrade.

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Re: The dreaded telemetry

Unless you have removed the updates from Win 7, 8.x then you have them installed.

The only way they wouldn't have shown up is if you chose not to install any updates/chose to install them manually.

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Re: The dreaded telemetry

@ 1Rafayal

"Unless you have removed the updates from Win 7, 8.x then you have them installed."

All of the Win7 installations I do are on bare metal, whether for myself, friends, relatives, or customers. Windows Update is turned off, I manually choose which updates to download and install.

"The only way they wouldn't have shown up is if you chose not to install any updates/chose to install them manually."

Yes, exactly.

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Silver badge
Windows

The demise of the PC is greatly exaggerated

Even us lUNatIX appreciate a full-sized desktop. However, the headshot to MS' dominance may come in the form of Android N[ougat|utbrittle]'s windowing multi-tasking. Imagine you can take your 'phone, with it's eight ARM64 cores, oodles of RAM and 3D graphics, and plug it into (or sit it on top of, with an inductive charger and some optical trickery as a data link) a hub with mouse, keyboard, NIC and an HDMI link to a proper monitor.

It's pretty much do-able now but Android's multi-tasking is clunky. RemixOS does a fairly good job of previewing what a proper Android window manager could look like. Ultimate hot-desk. You can bet Apple won't be far behind, either.

That's assuming that anyone by that point can get to the office without getting run over because they're too busy staring at the bloody phone to watch where they're going...

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Re: The demise of the PC is greatly exaggerated

Well aside from the fact that I don't need Android for that (WP10/Continuum will allow that as well) the question is Why?

If I really need a "desktop" I'd rather go with a Atom or core-i based tablet pc with LTE. That will likely offer a better performance/price ratio and is useable on the go for reading complex documents and note taking. Let's go "spending crazy" for a second:

+ Surface/3 with LTE (4GB/128GB SSD) and Stylus and a book case => 900€ at around 700gram

+ The dock (if wanted/needed) comes an extra 230€. Or I can simply use the USB-port and HDMI port

The closest android equivalent is a Samsung Note 5/64GB at around 750€ and 200gram

Yes, the Note is lighter but has a smaller screen, a toothpick stylus and 3 month after the Note 6 is out (maybe sooner) there'll be no more bugfixes etc. for it (Cyanogen does not count since it can not support the stylus)

Both are to big for a normal pocket and either end up in a backpack etc or carried along in the bookcase. One is a mere Android phone the other is a fully capabel PC that can run (and due to stylus use) standard programs. And external USB-3 devices without adapters and prayers. Want a checkcard-sized 256GB SSD - For just 99€ you get one, plug and go (Samsung T1) that can be used just like the internal one (Okay, USB-3 speed)

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Devil

Picking the data that suits your argument

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3051590/software-games/windows-10-hits-the-top-of-steams-usage-charts.html

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Re: Picking the data that suits your argument

Interesting reading.

My guess is that 'gamers' are more likely to want the new shiny shiny, such as DX12, whereas more 'regular' users, basically don't care about the OS (stability of shiny etc).

Plus there are now a few DX12 games coming out, some of which are DX12 exclusive, which is forcing their hands, "Want this new game? You need Win 10!".

As far as I know, there are only a couple of games so far that are DX12 exclusive, but this is likely to increase over time.

As an example: Gears of War Ultimate Edition is DX 12 and Win 10 only, and can only be bought through the Windows 10 MS store. Lucky for me, it's not a game I have any interest in!

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Re: Picking the data that suits your argument

I dont know how big the games industry is for Windows these days.

Does it cost more for a developer to make a Linux version of a cross platform game? And even then, is there enough of a market place for it?

Here is an interesting example, Kerbal Space Prorgam has been chugging along on 64 bit Linux for quite some time. It plays like a dream. The latest preview of the Windows version has only just brought 64 bit support in. This version has been rebuilt against a new engine and comes with a new physics engine etc and has primarily been put together for the upcoming console release. None of this has brought many changes to the Windows (or indeed Linux) version of the game, so how relevant is Windows 10 to the gaming community?

(gamer here, I use lots of OS's, mainly old Windows, to play games)

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Re: Picking the data that suits your argument

The Windows games market is literally over 100 times larger than Linux, despite the valiant efforts of Valve/Steam to provide the alternative. You'd have to be nuts to develop games for Linux except where its unpaid work for fun or a fairy godmother steps in. Windows 10 DirectX performance is considerably better than Windows 7 in critical areas and thats before adapting to DirectX 12. Vulcan should help level out for better performance on Linux over next year or so.

The slow arrival of 64 bit is really just a consequence of the slow upgrade rate in the PC world from the 32 bit version of Windows that ought to have been sent to the scrapheap 5 years ago. This meant some dev. middleware/engines...were going lowest common denominator 32bit for years with consequences to game devs that used it.

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Re: Picking the data that suits your argument

I dont know, Android gaming is pretty huge. Especially if you take into account how many people are playing Clash of Clans on the train home each night, and Android is sort of a Linux - in the same way that the Xbox One is sort of a Windows.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Picking the data that suits your argument

Quote: "The slow arrival of 64 bit is really just a consequence of the slow upgrade rate in the PC world from the 32 bit version of Windows that ought to have been sent to the scrapheap 5 years ago. "

Eh? Slow arrival?

XP was the last bastion of a common 32bit Windows OS (as it's 64bit version wasn't really XP).Vista (2007) was available in 32 and 64 bit, although it was probably a 50/50 split.

With Win 7 (2009). I've rarely seen it in its 32 bit version, usually just on ye olde netbooks or similar otherwise outdated hardware.

So from at least 2009/2010 64bit has likely been the most common.

A quick check on Steam's hardware survey, and your looking at maybe 6% on a 32bit OS, and that's mostly legacy XP users.

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Silver badge

Re: Picking the data that suits your argument

"The slow arrival of 64 bit is really just a consequence of the slow upgrade rate in the PC world from the 32 bit version of Windows that ought to have been sent to the scrapheap 5 years ago."

Well you only have MS to blame for that one! They decided to release 32 and 64 bit versions of Vista, 7, 8 and 10. Additionally, as I've stated previously, for reasons unknown GWX update can be a bit of a lottery. I have a client system that was running Win7 x64 and GWX upgraded it to Win10 32 - go figure...

As for the slow arrival of full 64 bit games, well that is down to decisions made by the games developers...

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Silver badge

This:

"270 million devices means about a million installs a day for nine months."

And how many of those were 'wanted' as opposed to forced down the users throats as people just gave up over the constant nagging to install windows 10 and let it get on with it.

Ohh, all those lovely future subscribers for M$.

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You can't use tablets for everything

I don't want to be typing a 10,000 word document with embedded flowcharts, tables, pictures etc. on a touch screen. Desktops will be there in the business world for a long time.

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Re: You can't use tablets for everything

and no one is forcing you to.

Even if tablets replaced desktops and laptops, there would still be keyboards.

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Re: You can't use tablets for everything

I could see 2in1 with a good Wacom or NTrig replacing many of the company notebook+dock that are in use today. Basically they ARE a core-i or Atom notebook that can be used as a simple notepad in meetings, project data wireless to the beamer etc.

Sure in "tablet" mode I am not producing the 10.000 word document. But I sure can produce the outline, draft notes, comment/review/annotate etc. Actually I have been doing that for years....

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Silver badge
Windows

Whatever

El Reg haters turn somersaults in denial that MSFT is going to the moon!

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Silver badge

Re: Whatever

Musk and Bezos could well reach the moon in a decade or two. I have not seen any Microsoft rockets.

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Silver badge

Re: Whatever

Can we send Satya there?

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Re: Whatever

Mark Shuttleworth wants to go to Mars.

Half of me says good for him. The other half says good riddance.

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Permainan Friv

El Reg haters turn somersaults in denial that MSFT is going to the moon!

http://www.frivpermainan.com

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Silver badge

"Microsoft last week updated its Windows 10 usage data, claiming 270 million devices now run its newest operating system."

Microsoft: Windows 10 will be on 1 billion devices in two to three years

"There are currently an estimated 1.5 billion or so PCs running some version of Windows worldwide."

So will they convince two thirds of Windows users to switch by the Summer of 2017? 2018? Place your bets.

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Convince? First they advertised the crap out of it, then they lowered the price to zero, then they shoved it up your pipes without asking. What's next, sending goons around to beat you up?

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The new Microsoft...

Given the new Microsoft, I'm actually reminiscing and warming to Steve Ballmer in a big way. OK, he bet on Windows 8.0 (Hate, point none) / Julie Larson Green, we all make mistakes.

If Metro had been implemented as an add-on option to the core OS, I think it would have been better received and have had more installs, than it ever got. Microsoft need some self confidence, that people will actually use their products even when they aren't been forced onto their machines.

Smashing the plates of Windows 7 is just pure madness.

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