Windows 10: Forget Cloudobile, put Security and Privacy First

2 points...

2 points, one defending Microsoft and one not.

1) Every pre-release type thing (anything earlier than a beta, if not some betas) from Microsoft has made it REALLY clear in the contract they Microsoft needs debugging information, that Microsoft can and will collect more information than crash reports and phone home with it. They basically say to use these prereleases to test out functionality and NOT use it for any important work, particularly work involving any kind of privacy agreement. It would be a good idea, however, for someone or other to find the code IS doing this invasive logging, to make sure it's removed (not just disabled waiting for later re-enablement) in later releases. I find it EXTREMELY unlikely this'd be left in though, companies know how debugging works and to remove debugging code in release versions of software and Microsoft is no exception.

2) On the other hand... no, sending the list of all software installed on your system is NOT required for updates. My Ubuntu systems update themselves just fine, without sending out a list of all installed software. It downloads a full list of available software, dependency info included, and the update list is calculated locally. Of course in double-tinfoil-hat-land, one could eventually determine what software I have installed by seeing what updates I've downloaded.

"My question to you is would corporations be willing to trust experimenting with this privacy violating monster if it is being used around business sensitive information?

Would a medical facility consider using a copy of Windows 10, in anticipation of future conversion to Windows 10, if just letting that computer on their network with patient sensitive information would be a violation of HIPAA?"

They should not be using pre-release, untested software on their secure LAN. Doing so would be irresponsible. However, the hospital I'm familiar with, they have a LAN for the HIPAA-protected stuff that's locked down tight (if I had to guess, if the Win10 machine was hooked up to this it would not get an IP address, and the unrecognized device trying to get a DHCP address would set off intrusion alarms); a guest LAN that is (as the name implies) for guests, and I think an intermediate-level LAN or two so machines that don't handle HIPAA stuff can get on without being exposed to random guests PCs and tablets. Really testing a Win10 machine even in it's current state would be no problem if it's just tested on anything but the most secure LAN.

Really

A trial beta version of an OS collection information and usage..... well I am shocked! In the terms conditions as well? Ok you get my point and obviously if a feature like that ever made into a finished product then its a completely different matter. I do however find it amazing that one min people have an opinion that privacy and anonymity are "enemies of the internet" and the next min everyone is outraged at the invasion of privacy (not that it matters which company it is). Sometimes I think you might as well put all your personal life on a website, give the owners copyright control, let them suggest how to run your social live, track you with a key logger that has a build in browser, upload all your data to an advertising company, strap a camera to your face and call it progress.... just saying ..........maybe I should buy a 100% proprietary computer with a fruit sticker on it for a massively inflated price that would show people I am cool :)

what's the point

I don't really see the point of all this tracking built into a development version. Precisely because of all that feedback, people aren't going to use it for anything other than kicking the tyres a bit. Nobody is going to do serious work on it, or live with it for several weeks. So what use is all that feedback you collect from a system whose mere presence will ensure that the computer is not going to be used for the normal tasks someone might use it for?

Enforced career changes

See now, fortunately I know how to get up to my elbows in dangerous equipment. On top of previous experience, being on the wrong side of the economic downturn means I've had the lovely opportunity to spend a month doing bonded labour a mandatory work placement for a nearby plastic recycling firm. I already have plenty of that kind of experience anyway, amongst the retail stuff. Even got the little certificate with "Excellent" written across all performance metrics to prove it.

However I have to wonder how some 18 stone, neckbearded, doughnut-munching "admin" would cope with a job where the 25Kg single-man limit is more of a guideline, where 50 hours a week of brutal graveyard shifts dragging crap out of trailers is the norm, where your shins become more bumps, bruises and scrapes than skin, would cope?

I have seen people come into these sorts of jobs and leave the same day. They simply cannot cope with the workload. And people here are are suggesting "just change careers"?

I suggest these people go work in a postal sorting depot, in a recycling firm, in a distribution warehouse, in any number of other crap jobs for a month or two. Let alone 6, 12,18 months or more.

I'm wondering how many of those people would be crying out to be forcibly buggered than deal with it any more? I'm wondering how many of them would just be crying themselves to sleep every night. Or every morning, as the case most likely would be.

I'm pretty sure it would be a non-zero number.

As for me, I'm trying to get out of that crap. I've done my time, thankyou very much. Can I have a job that pays some real money and doesn't have me risking life and limb every single damned shift, please?

Trevor, this article provides both an example of why your posts are often entertaining to read, and an explanation.

The entertainment comes more from reading the comments than deriving any value from the article, if only to watch you manically responding to each and every criticism with an increasingly profane and angry attitude.

The explanation seems to be that you are hopped on speed, which makes a lot of sense now we know. How 'bout some barbies to slow ya down a bit? Or some dots to make it all go wobbly?

Having said all that the article was rather good.

If I have paid for the software, Microsoft should not collect any data at all

Basic things like "what programs are installed" and "what is the hardware configuration of your PC" are generally collected as part of operating system updates and/or automated troubleshooting systems because they provide clear technical benefits in solving technical issues. It would be pretty insane to say "don't collect this info, because NSA".

We will have to agree to differ. There is absolutely no excuse for sending any information about my computer, what I have installed on it, how often I use it, or what I use it for unless I have asked for help and explicitly understand that this information is needed (in which case I will carefully consider who I ask, like I would carefully consider who I take my PC to for servicing).

In this case, it isn't the NSA I am worried about -- why should Microsoft know? I don't tell Google what software I have installed, I don't tell Amazon where else I shop or what I buy there, I don't tell my car insurance company who I choose to use for home insurance or how many bedrooms it has. Why on earth would I provide any personal information to Microsoft just because I buy their product? This isn't Facebook offering me something for "free" in exchange for personal information.

Windows 10 and instrumentalization.

I enjoyed the article. I did not think of it as a rant, but really informative. I am working with the Windows 10 Preview. I would be a privacy first end user. I do not want my business on the cloud. I don't trust it. Its a bad idea for many obvious reasons. I do not want to type a letter of any sort using on line software. This is a ridiculous idea. I do not want my keystrokes logged. Privacy has always been and inalienable right. I when I buy an OS, I want to be able to have some control over it! They cost a lot of money. If they give it to me for free and tell me about the 'instrumentalization' written into the OS, then that would be something different. I generally like Windows 10, but now I worry about the updates on Windows 7. I didn't realize those updates needed to report back to Microsoft what software I was using. Now I am seeing a need for a home computer that never goes on line or needs to be updated. There are really too many ghouls obsessed with monitoring the humane race. It's a sickness and a violation.

Windows 10 built in key logger

Has MS said the keylogger will removed for production?

We are right to suspect the answer is...no.

The tipoff will be MS introduces W10 and says not one word, not one syllable about the built in BB keylogger. Then we will know for sure it's there.

Business OS upgrade or another misplaced consumer toy?

Great article. Pretty much sums up the thoughts of most people I know. We don't really need anything past Windows 7.

We certainly did nothing to deserve Windows 8 though some they really had to buy a new laptop were grateful for 8.1 to replace 8 and all wish they could get the time back on wasted pilots of Windows 8.

However, its been a long time since Microsoft created an OS anyone was really excited about other than their marketing department. I think many of those of my generation who remember a time before the war on privacy, remember that Microsoft actually started it. Look where the direction they lead took us?

Dalliances with trying to put a live always on Camera and Mic in every living room, dodgy DRM, VOIP which actually made the, until then, relatively banal concept of a telephone conversion between 2 people (even in the same building) an amazing achievement.

Now they are trying to give me something free....... The company which try to charge a user for addressing licensing issues they created or day 1 product issues..

One has to wonder why and who is really paying and how. I am highly suspicious. When 8 was released and I developed a strange deaf condition when asked to sign any requisitions involving products which came with it.

Wondering if this is going to finally be an upgrade we could live with in terms of a functioning business OS or a toy for consumer machines paid for by the data which will be collected on our business and the individuals in it. Unlike Windows 8. All reports seem to indicate the product itself is sound and unlike Windows 8, is actually usable and will not see productivity dive deeper than the Marianas Trench. So, what is the kicker here? Will MS be using this "upgrade" as a Trojan horse for the mass stealing of corporate data on the basis of individual licensing agreements or are we able to secure our business and keep our data safe without keeping MS out completely?

Forgive my cynicism but with the sort of previous MS has, the prospect of installing another unknown from MS feels like letting Reggie Kray in to look after the kids and clean my gold brick collection.

I will be waiting for those wiser than me to pull apart the OS and tell me what exactly is going on no matter how long it takes.