NSA dragnet mostly slurped innocents' traffic

Re: OMGeeez!!! What a DISASTER!!! We're all DOOOOMED!!! Etc.

Yes, there are a lot of posters her that don't want to agree with what I post, who downvote with alacrity, yet seem unable to post a reason for their disagreement. That implies their disagreement is not based on facts or reasoning, but on emotional baaaah-liefs.

Think about it - I'd say about 75% of your downvotes are directly because of your attitude. Those downvoters will never answer, anyway. Another 25% don't agree with your statement and facts. They might answer your post and explain the downvote, but that's much more effort than just pushing the downvote button and hoping someone else might explain it to you.

Anyway - you have a good point insofar as my whole post had no actual relevance to the thread.

Let's change that:

If The Man or any of The Minions have 'misused' the data then there would be some proveable 'harm', surely? If not, how could they have 'misused' it? You want to baaaaah-lieve in The Great Conspiracy To Oppress Us All, so show me some effect of the supposed conspiracy.

In a dragnet data collection of Stasi or Gestapo style, it is completely irrelevant if the data is misused or not. The very fact the data is collected, already creates a feeling of uncertainty and pushes the subjects to preemptive obedience. That's why oppressive systems never hide the fact, that data is collected. Obviously the NSA tried very hard to hide their data collection. So probably no conspiracy here. Move along, nothing to see.

".....and because 'victims' of any misuse will not necessarily know where their problems came from." I am not asking you to show conclusive proof that The Man 'harmed' them, just anything that these people underwent that you want to propose was caused by The Man. Then we can all have a good laugh at your paranoia. Come on, back your witless bleating up for once.

Now, unfortunately there have been incidents with people, that were put on "No Fly Lists". Once your name is on such a list, your are in trouble. There is virtually no way to get you cleared. I would say this counts as harm. Accidential harm, perhaps, but nevertheless. Apart from that, the fact that it is now known that all this data is collected, will certainly have some negative influence on our society. The terrorists' goal is to fight our liberal society, our freedom to do, think and believe as we wish. The actions of the NSA damaged our society far more than any terrorist bomb could have ever done. Just by creating a feeling of fear and uncertainty. I would call that harmful behaviour.

Another point is that once such a organisation is set up and working, it can be easily turned into an instrument of oppression. The Gestapo didn't just appear from out of nowhere. Neither did the Stasi. Democracies are very fragile things. People tend to flock around strong leaders and leaders tend to strife for as much power as possible. And you know what - it's always the other ones that are the sheeple...

Re: Chairo OMGeeez!!! What a DISASTER!!! We're all DOOOOMED!!! Etc.

"I don't call people that can explain their differing opinion sheeple,"

Actually, you do call people that explain their differing opinion sheeple, so you are telling a big fat lie there. If you genuinely crave evidence to support that statement of fact, this comment section has plenty.

"just those that don't have an opinion of their own. You can spot them pretty quickly because they substitute passion for reasoning and facts."

That description fits yourself perfectly - in fact many of your posts start with personal insults before any attempt at conveying a point.