Use Tor or 'extremist' Tails Linux? Congrats, you're on an NSA list Alleged leaked documents about the NSA's XKeyscore snooping software appear to show the paranoid agency is targeting Tor and Tails users, Linux Journal readers – and anyone else interested in online privacy. At the heart of the claims is this sample configuration file for the XKeyscore system. The top-secret documents were …
Where was the NSA when those two brothers were bombing Boston during the marathon? Why is it that they can scrutinize the serial number off a penny from a Satellite but couldn't prevent Edward Snowden from sneaking out with how many laptops and thousands of documents? Are they throwing the big "digital net" out over everyone because they can't really accomplish finding the real threats?
"...the United States does not collect signals intelligence for the purpose of suppressing or burdening criticism or dissent, or for disadvantaging persons based on their ethnicity, race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion."
Arguably bollocks, but even with benefit of the doubt saying they don't do so now, even a casual reading of history suggests they will get there before too long. As some wise soul put it on this forum "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Look for 'extremism', whatever that is, and shorn of the context, intent or background to a comment or action, you'll surely find what you're after eventually, if you look from just the right angle.
This article on its own should really be enough for the powers that be to give serious thought to what they're created, but of course it won't. We'll just stumble along into some sort of horrendous police state because we had the tools and no-one could really be arsed to work out where it was going, and should any try, they'll doubtless be the first to 'fit the profile'.
We're off to hell in a fucking handbasket.
Well, the NSA and its predecessor agencies have been doing pretty much what they are doing now, and sometimes more intrusively*, for at about 75 years. Its Five Eyes associates, and signals intelligence agencies of other democratic nations such as France, Germany, Sweden, Israel, and others probably have been doing much the same for about the same period. Mission creep, if there were any, should be apparent by now.
* SHAMROCK and MINARET, for example.
@tom dial
"...for at about 75 years."
Except that mass surveillance on the scale and depth of intrusiveness that is now being conducted was not even close to being available for the vast majority of the time. The chances of having your life routinely touched by spying agencies on a daily basis would have been a fantasy for the truly paranoid, rather than a fact of life for most. Even CCTV on a large scale is only really 20 years old or so, let alone mass comms monitoring. That looks like mission creep to me.
I think thats a big difference that makes me personally extremely uncomfortable, and the fact that its supposedly machines not people doing the watching makes no odds; it still feels like someone rifling through your underwear drawer.
Uhm? You're not European by any chance? Have no (grand)parents who lived the world wars?
SS patroling the streets? Ever heard of Jewish people being picked up, even though they were well hidden, because some dumbfuck neighbor told some nitwit police guy about the abnormal amount of food the 4 people household next door bought every week? CCTV is harmless! Stasimen/KGBguys following you around the streets? Doing your house up after DDR and Germany re-united only to find about 3 kilometers of tapping wire in your walls??? Mafia guys sitting in your restaurant by the boat load drinking tapwater because you didn't pay protection money?
Dude... Seriously... The tools are different, I'll give you that, but the scope is not creeping at all.
Except that by placing everyone who reads a publication or inquires about a website offering info and sales of lawful products on a surveillance list, you are burdening free speech by associating them with anti-state activity. Is anyone who visits the EFF or ACLU or EPIC website also placed on this list? Are you creating a situation where employers or family might pressure someone to stop using these products/websites/publications because it brings too much notoriety in official circles? Well, then you are burdening free speech. (Mind you, I always knew that Linux Journal readers were malcontents up to no good!)
Tux (alias: Tuxama Bin Laden)--How is the poor guy going to survive the tropical climate at Guantanamo Bay?
If Linux puts you on the list then expressing an interest in OpenBSD must move you further up the list, like ten or a hundred fold.
Instead of being flagged, as only a potential terrorist, you must be flagged as a potential extremist with a specialization in guerrilla warfare.
They are only tracking which countries have WMD's (Workstation of Mass Destruction) - it is all to keep you safe. Basically they are saying that they "own" Windows already, it is the pesky others that need God given American protection - World Police™.
In some future episode of the Simpsons™ I expect to hear a line something like this "Smithers, let loose the dogs of non-collateral-peace and release the eagle drones of freedom."
OK, I'm off to get my 0xc0ffee, my brain is still offline, and yes it is truly fearful to see when it is online.
Someone, anyone, please convince me that this isn't the inevitable conclusion:
If you are a member of the military you are already on the watch list.
If you work for a defense related company you are already on the watch list.
Apparently if you use Linux, or Tor, or read Linux Journal, or read this ... you are already on the watch list.
If the AI marks you as a potential future trouble maker, expect that eventually you will be quietly sidelined. You won't be fired, you will be made irrelevant. (You just won't get that promotion ... ever.)
Eventually the AI will get good enough to pick children likely to become trouble makers. These children will discover higher hurdles in their education and future jobs. Again they will be steered into "safe", "low risk", low paying jobs. These people will be steered away from others of their kind to ensure they don't collaborate in their "trouble making".
If you are a "trouble maker" your children will automatically be marked as "trouble makers".
Eventually the AI will get good enough to pick which children will make charismatic, "right thinking", leaders. These children will find help and encouragement in their education and jobs. They will be steered into positions of power.
Currently there is the computing equivalent of a desktop PC dedicated to watching each person on the watch list. The watching is extensive but not complete. As time goes on, more and more activities, "transactions", "feeds", become available on each watched person.
In 10 to 20 years, the computing equivalent of one of today's super computers will be used to watch each targeted person, and instead of a list of a couple of million, (with a couple of tens of thousands of high value targets,) each person in the country will be watched.
If you are 5Is, how do you get around the laws forbidding watching your own citizens? Get another of the 5Is to put everyone on their target list and feed everything you have to them...
yes, you've described very accurately one of the possible outcomes of the existent FVEY + partners overcollection 'hobby'
not only the freezing of the evolution of technology AND society
(technology has to freeze as new stuff might be used to bypass the 'lawful enforcement' monitoring)
(society has to freeze as some new liberal government/leader might revoke FVEY powers)
With the massive interception and surveillance tools now ubiquitously available one can see the world where a young activist Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi could be disconnected after a few blogs or a John Winston Ono Lennon could be banned from travelling or owning a guitar following inappropriate tweets. A youthful Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela searching Google for early concepts of “long walks” and “freedom” could easily be identified, profiled and gently neutralised.
Soft Assassination?
Are we there yet?
some of the madder corners of the web claim that we are - with stuff like "Early NATO whistleblower Hans Otto exposed '"kill lists" of leading European politicians that defied investigators' belief, but were subsequently confirmed by police. This is called "soft assassination" Richard Cottrell, author of Gladio, NATO's Dagger at the Heart of Europe: The United States is not prepared to tolerate governments which are unfavorable to the regime."
Under sovereign national right, the USA can do whatever it wants to protect its society. Currently it is alleged that they are being non-proportional in their use of SIGINT, illegal under international laws. Farr be it from me to suggest my opinion of redressing the balance between security/privacy, but the USA could surely Game a win/win out of this Snowden problem, with balance being an option?
".....If you are a member of the military you are already on the watch list....." In the UK, yes, as you will have signed the acknowledgement for the Official Secrets Act. Do bear in mind that, just like Santa, there is a 'naughty' list and a 'nice' list, the 'nice' list having some advantages when you apply for security-related jobs (a bit like having a good credit-rating). But, depending on who you start mixing with, you can be moved from the 'nice' list to the 'naughty' one. Being on the 'nice' lists means if you do certain activity (such as taking a holiday in Cuba) you may get flagged for further attention. I'm pretty sure it's the same for Yanks.
"....If you work for a defense related company you are already on the watch list....." In the UK, only if you work in a 'sensitive' area. If your company is in the defence industry and did a security check on you before employing you then you may be on the 'nice' list (or the 'naughty' list if you got rejected for the job due to your background). I have no idea how it works for such US employees but I'd hazard a guess it is the same.
"....Apparently if you use Linux, or Tor, or read Linux Journal, or read this ... you are already on the watch list....." No. It would simply generate far too large a pool of references. I suspect, given that XKeyScore allegedly offers the ability to filter on whatever you like (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/01/xkeyscore_leak_challenged/), there was no filters specifically for TOR or TAILS or any Linux-related activity, it's one of many filters that may have been used to narrow down a search for specific black hats such as the Syrian Electronic Army. Of course, it plays to the TORists' egos to baaaah-lieve they are 'sticking it to The Man', and it is certain the NSA and GCHQ do have a big interest in some of the traffic going through TOR, though probably not the geeks running it. The chances that the TORists have a real search list from the NSA is remote to zero seeing as their claims do not match what we already know about XKeyScore. It doesn't help that certain El Reg columnists seem more interested in using melodramatic headlines rather than a bit of commonsense.
"....If the AI marks you as a potential future trouble maker, expect that eventually you will be quietly sidelined...." No. Apart form the fact there is no 'AI', XKeyScore is just a search tool, so it needs a human being to make that decision. If such decisions were being made they would require the NSA/GCHQ to be contacting people in companies all over the place, in widely divergent fields, and saying 'don't hire or promote Bob', which would have come to public attention years ago as there is no guarantee the boss of any such company would be pro-NSA/GCHQ. So, sorry, but if you didn't get a job or didn't get a promotion, look in the mirror and stop blaming The Man.
"....Eventually the AI will get good enough to pick children likely to become trouble makers....." Yes and no. Firstly, still no AI - it's just a search tool. But, if you have family on the 'naughty' list, depending on how 'naughty' they have been you may already have been added to the 'naughty' list as a prospective 'bad person'. This is more likely in 'family-orientated' causes such as Islamism, less likely in socio-political-orientated causes such as the ALF nutters.
"....These children will discover higher hurdles in their education and future jobs. Again they will be steered into "safe", "low risk", low paying jobs....." That is just more of the conspiracy sheeple fail, see above about how the massive conspiracy would be unable to remain hidden. Your kids may be screwed because they are brought up in a paranoid household/commune with moronic 'values' but that would be your fault, not The Man's. Tell them to look in the mirror as well.
"....If you are a "trouble maker" your children will automatically be marked as "trouble makers"...." Possibly, depending on your definition of 'trouble maker'. If it is someone that donates to dodgy Islamic charities, frequently visit jihadi websites, visits mosques frequented by known Islamists, regularly mixes with those same Islamists, and has traveled to areas of the World where Islamists operate, it is a pretty safe bet that person and their children will be on a list. If your definition is joined a 'Marxist/Green/whatever' group at college when in your heavy-toking phase, attended some anti-nuke/anti-homophobia/anti-globalist demo whilst stoned, since got smart and moved on, then no. The NSA and GCHQ are looking for people with 'bad' intentions, not morons.
"....Eventually the AI will get good enough to pick which children will make charismatic, "right thinking", leaders. These children will find help and encouragement in their education and jobs. They will be steered into positions of power....." Yeah, you really need to loosen up the tinfoil. If the people around you are doing better it is because they are trying harder or are just better equipped to succeed in this World. Once again, look in the mirror for the source of your problems and failings.
"....Currently there is the computing equivalent of a desktop PC dedicated to watching each person on the watch list...." And your proof of this is.... Oh, you don't have any, you just got it off conspiracyloons.com (before you misunderstand the sarcasm and go check for the evidence which you hope will prove your deepest paranoid fantasies are The Truth, that website does not exist).
If you are on any watch lists, it is more likely to be one run by your local psychiatrist's office.
You know, surveilling everybody strikes me as a sure sign of paranoid schizophrenia, as defined in all the appropriate medical handbooks used by medical doctors and students. I sure wish The Man would look in the mirror for once, don't you?
The Man would just reply, "It ain't paranoia if everybody REALLY IS out to get you." As far as they're concerned, one man can destroy civilization out of nowhere, meaning EVERYONE's a potential existential threat. And it's against instinct to accept existential threats.
You owe me a new privacy!!
Now that I'm on an NSA watch list, it'll comprehensively knacker my plans to move to California and unleash a full blown mid-life crisis on an unending bevy of Californian Girls, should my wife ever have the wisdom to run off with the pool boy that is.
"...possibly breaking international law in doing so..."
As if any part of the US federal government could give a rat's ass for international law. (Except when it suits their own purposes, of course).
Why would God's Own Country knuckle under to laws made by a bunch o' furriners?
how is it that if you buy something online, the arm of your government involved, in this case the taxman, determines that your physical location determines the taxes you pay rather than where the servers are, but when you are doing something else online, another arm of your government, in this case the men in black, determines it's where the servers are and not your phyisical location that's the key point. Apart from the fact that governments are lying, greedy bastards can someone please make up their minds which way they want it round please?
Because the government ALWAYS take the position that's of advantage to them. EVERYONE does that. If the law favors server location, they'll use that; if the law favors client location, so be it. They'll pick the position that's best for them in that particular instance, and the next instance starts the whole thing from scratch. Hypocrisy is expected in law enforcement. Otherwise, Joes can loophole around the law.
As I though was said in advertising or maybe it was on line dating, any news is good news.
Well, The fact that the Linux Journal site was targeted by NSA certainly will get the conspirators emailing each other and on on blogs. My theory - No one is volunteering to work for thge US, so the US Gov has to try to profile the best possible recrut. Despirate for a few good hackers.
I only know assembly and Basic so I do not have to worry.
Warning, do not go to the journal's site if you wish not to be on a list!!!
It isn't as if any rational person still believes the USA is a free country.
Think about it. No-warrant wire taps, indefinite detention of citizens without charges, approval of rendition of prisoners and torture, stop and frisk without probable cause, search and seizure without a warrant, no-knock entry, confiscation and destruction of cameras that might have been used to film police acting illegally, police brutality, police shootings that go without investigation, managed news, and the civil-rights destroying "Patriot" Act.
Acts of police behaving illegally, with shootings, Tasers, and unwarranted violence now appear almost daily. Rarely are these offenses punished. Most often "an investigation" is claimed, but soon forgotten.
In addition, the USA, with 5% of the world population, has 25% of all of the prisoners in the world. That means the USA has the most people in prison of any nation in history. Even by percentage of residents incarcerated, not just sheer numbers, USA is # 1
Does any of that sound like a free country?
As Dwight D. Eisenhower said about communism, "It's like slicing sausage. First they out off a small slice. That isn't worth fighting over. Then they take another small slice that isn't worth fighting over. Then another and another. Finally, all you have left is the string and that isn't worth fighting over, either.
Within 50 years, the USA will split into several mutually antagonistic countries. The world will be a batter place for that.
Congrats, you are on an NSA list.
Ever downloaded TrueCrypt?
Congrats, you are on an NSA list.
Written stuff about bombs or the war on terror?
Congrats, you are on an NSA list.
Ever place an international call to someone in the USA?
Congrats, you are on an NSA list.
Ever used the internet?
Congrats you are probably on an NSA list.
That's the beauty of databases, you can store so much. And then cross reference.
It will also please you to know that you're almost also on French, Chinese, Iranian, Russian, Swedish, Australian, and Canadian lists. We're all virtually celebrities!
"Have you ever mentioned the EFF?....." You assume that ALL coms would be swept, which is not the case. You would need to be in a discussion/chat/exchange with someone of interest, and the EFF is not of interest. Certain members, maybe.
"......Ever downloaded TrueCrypt?....." Again, unlikely as the list is simply too large and ineffective a filter. What is more likely would be ((downloaded TC)+((from a country of interest)OR(via TOR))+(were already listed as an associate/relative of a person of interest))=be flagged for further attention. Just downloading TC alone is unlikely to be enough.
"......Written stuff about bombs or the war on terror?...." Again not enough alone. If you fitted the profile ((visited sites for jihadis/ALF/<insert known terror groups here>)+(posted info on making specific bombs such as IEDs, NOT on a site like Wikipedia, but on a site where people voiced a desire to use such devices))=definite further surveillance, but more likely from the FBI or local equivalent.
"......Ever place an international call to someone in the USA?......" Again, no, way too big a filter.
"......Ever used the internet?....." Puh-lease, loosen up the tinfoil!
".....That's the beauty of databases, you can store so much....." Not enough to fulfilling your paranoid listings above.
".....,It will also please you to know that you're almost also on French, Chinese, Iranian, Russian, Swedish, Australian, and Canadian lists......" Unlikely, seeing as the NSA can't screen all coms (despite what the sheeple want to baaaah-lieve) and can't store all the stuff they do sweep up, so it is very, very unlikely any other country even has the budget to do half of what the Five Eyes do with their combined budgets.
"..... We're all virtually celebrities!" Paranoid delusions. Not of grandeur, just of being of interest to anyone.
There's a kind of balance: the US is able to snoop on all of our phone calls and web browsing, to spy upon our companies, but isn't able to keep secrets anymore: wikileaks, cablegate, manning, snowden.
The same technology which allows massive snooping on whole countries also makes it next to impossible to keep anything secret for a long time.
"...If something as innocuous as Linux Journal is on the NSA's hit list, it's a distinct possibility that El Reg is too, particularly in light of our recent exclusive report on GCHQ – which led to a Ministry of Defence advisor coming round our London office for a chat..."
So why don't you SHOW GCHQ that you will not be intimidated by them--and, more importantly, that you consider them nothing more than room-temperature-IQ arseholes, and pond-scum--by PUBLISHING this entire chat you had with this Ministry-of-Defence so-called "ADVISOR"?
Believe me, we would ALL simply delight in NSA's boot-lickers, the GCHQ, being made fools of.
The NSA has already taken care of that problem on its end.
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