back to article Women in IT: ‘If you want to be taken seriously, dress like a man’

I am female, and I work in IT. I’m not in sales or in management; I am a systems engineer on a team that maintains and supports critical systems for an international, multi-billion-dollar company. I fight the fires, troubleshoot the issues and design systems. So much has been written about the need for more women in IT, but I’ …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It depends how you measure success...

    ... I calculate it by the ratio of earnings to effort - that's why I got into IT in the first place, it's pretty much money for old rope when you compare it to proper jobs.

    This holds true even more if you're a reasonably attractive female and willing to use that fact to your advantage. There will always be a love-struck technically competent colleague who will do half your job for you in return for a "knowing smile" in order to fuel his lonely fantasies. There will always be a smitten boss that will overlook your mistakes / fecklessness and pass you over in rounds of redundancy on the off-chance that he might get lucky one year at the Christmas party.

    I'm a man, but I've seen females being very successful in IT on the basis outlined above. I'm not bitter, good luck to them, I'm just jealous that I can't get away with doing as little work as they do...

  2. Stephen Channell
    Coat

    If you want to be taken seriously... be yourself, but know you colleagues

    “Dress like a man” is a cleaver soundbite to distract from the real issue of sex in the workplace, which is not an especially IT issue. Sure taking sex of the table (by dressing like a man), focuses minds on technical aptitude, but begs the question “if a man’s judgment is impaired by a pair of beautiful, inviting, breasts; is he best placed to buy a product, if the salesperson happens to have the said ‘qualities’”. Aside from pure practicality (clarks wins over prada in any scenario with ventilation tiles) dress is more about fitting in with the team, than the gender issue (green & white stripes in a 3rd division Glasgow Rangers group is more a no-no than fish-nets).

    Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family; if your firm doesn’t like your choices; choose a different one.

  3. itzman

    It works for men, too

    It was the last coding contract I ever worked on, the worst of all possible worlds, 60 contractors on a project that two of us could have done, months behind schedule because of poor design indifferent management and starting from the wrong place. I used to go in in jeans and a T-shirt, with shoulder length hair.

    I went into the local bank to cash a cheque. "Do you have any ID?" snarled the chavette behind the glass. "ID?, whatever for? that's my name, that's my signature, that's my account and that's my cheque guarantee card". Nevertheless without seeing a driving license, she wouldn't budge.

    The next week I put on a dull grey suit. Yes, I had suits as well as jeans. I'm not religious about clothes. And went to the same bank, with the same chavette behind the glass. She cashed my cheque without a murmur, with no ID and called me 'sir'.

    It is the stupidity of feminism that thinks that judging by appearance is somehow something that only happens to women.

    It was the female contract agency employee who told me on my first job 'yes, wear a suit, you will get more respect'

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It works for men, too

      > And went to the same bank, with the same chavette behind the glass. She cashed my cheque without a murmur, with no ID and called me 'sir'.

      Perhaps the chavette had more intelligence than you give her credit for. Perhaps she remembered your face from your previous visit despite the change in appearance.

      I have my hair close cropped, I'm usually unshaven and wear cheap jeans, t-shirts and old trainers. I look like I don't have two pennies to rub together. I have never had anybody in any bank treat me with anything other than respect let alone have any of them "snarl" at me.

  4. J__M__M

    If that's you in the picture I think you dress very nicely, stick with it.

  5. William Roberts

    I recall a consulting assignment where our seven person team showed up the first day in full business attire (per SOP) and all of the customer team showed up in blue jeans and sports shirts. At the end of the day, the team lead got us altogether and said "Tomorrow we all show up dressed like the customer." A fast trip to the mall to buy a pair of jeans and a couple of shirrts and the next day when we walked in, the atmosphere dramatically changed. What could have been a rough visit became smooth and friendly. Fitting in is the first rule.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I love being a woman in IT

    I come from a family of IT techs so I had exposure to real IT (not th s**t they call IT at school) and was playing with bits of kit at a young age with my brothers.

    No one blinks an eye that I'm a female grunt where Iwork. Theyre usually just pleased to see someone who can help them. I am treated as a bit of a freak at training days for Cisco, VMware and f5 etc. i was once asked where the coffee was before the trainer realised i wasnt hotel staff.

    Trainers, short sleeve shirts and jeans are order of the day (and on call hours) but I can rock pink socks. Longevity in IT is based on your skills, male or female.

    Now I'm a mum with my kids at uni studying to be the next generation, a whole circle of life Lion King thing!

  7. thepowda

    It's dressing like an IT PERSON...

    I really think the idea is less about dressing like an IT GUY and more like dressing like an IT person, here's why.

    I'm a freelance IT consultant / systems manager / network admin (what are we calling ourselves these days?) and when I started out - regardless of my portfolio of clients and success stories - I was subject to the same thing.

    The difference is... I wore tailored jeans, fitted shirts and was sociable. I wasn't taken seriously because I wasn't wearing khakis, a polo shirt and sporting a neck beard.

    Nearly every new client that I would meet with when I was starting out just HAD to mention in our introductory meeting that "you certainly don't look like an IT guy" which then led to me having to PROVE to them how much of a computer geek I could be so they could feel comfortable with someone who - while acting the part - didn't look enough like it.

    I've heard the "it's a man's world" thing enough times and I really do get it... But I've had the fortune of meeting some mean IT women who can handle their own and I've found that success in the IT industry is far less about your gender and more about your attitude.

    1. Cari

      Re: It's dressing like an IT PERSON...

      Your experiences would suggest perhaps we need a change in perception of IT people. I mean, how many of us in the field honestly want to have to fit the (often negative) stereotype of IT Guy in order for customers to believe we actually know what we're on about?

      1. AmeliaAlmquist

        Re: It's dressing like an IT PERSON...

        To be fair, it's a negative perception based on reality for some people. My firm's IT is outsourced and most of the staff are rude, show up dressed in a way that would lead to any of us office staff being put on a disclipinary and at best the help you get is slow and partial. We all have to deal with people who don't understand our work but only the IT staff get to be openly rude. I don't get to ask a client why he's bothering me with this crap as I once heard IT saying to a colleague.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Personally speaking, I wouldn't see any reason why a woman in IT would need actively to avoid a feminine appearance. As a first impression to me it would imply a weakness of personality. (Unless of course they have the hairstyle which suggests they wouldn't do it outside of work either). Negative impressions come from looking unprofessional: well-put-together is quite different from tarted up.

  9. chris lively

    Dress in any job is crucial. If you want to be one of the team then you need to dress like it. If you want your bosses job, dress better than him/her and act like it. If you want people to focus on how you look, dress in a way that accentuates it. Doesn't matter what gender you are.

    I've had colleagues who had a problem covering their chest or choose to wear short skirts. At no time were they taken seriously. Doesn't matter if the dress code is "casual" or "business casual" or to the nines.

    Further IT is well know for our rebels. Some are awesome, some just think they are. Dress like your colleagues and be a super hero. Then make sure people know it. You'll get noticed in the right way. Dress like you aren't part of the team, and just do the 9 to 5, then you'll be ignored.

  10. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Non-verbal communication

    Dress is a form of communication, just as much as facial expression, body stance etc. And far more blatant too. You control how you dress.

    If you dress like a middle-manager, but are a hands-on techie, you are telling the people around you that you want to see yourself as management: Not one of the workers.

    Which may get you on the fast track managers route. But is not going to impress anyone who actually wants some tech work done.

    And wearing glam heels, designer clothes etc. isn't giving the message that you see yourself as one of the technicians. In other words, It's less about dressing like a technician's stereotype, more about not dressing as if you don't want to be seen as a technician.

    And it's the same in most jobs. There are young teachers who act and dress from day one like they are preparing for headship.

    And I'm sure the same goes for every "Frontline" occupation.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    took the time to read all the comments after reading the article, and I have to say I'm disappointed with many reactions.

    women should not have to alter their appearance to be more male to be accepted in the workplace or anywhere else for that matter. it is denying who you are just to be allowed to be recognized as a member of society, which I believe is similar to what racism and gender bias is about in a nutshell. denial, lack of perception.

    there were no women present during my school career and there are still none in my line of IT work 30 years later. us men have nothing to compare with on the workfloor, everybody does the same old goose step. it is clear many still do not understand why. I actually feel less human just thinking about that barren place we call society.

    1. JEDIDIAH
      Mushroom

      Feminazi nonsense

      > women should not have to alter their appearance to be more male to be accepted in the workplace

      That's life. Get used to it.

      I "dress down" at my current job. I do this because everyone at the job does this. I have some nice tailored pants that fit me better because I am a tall guy. However, I don't wear them because they would stick out.

      Everyone that starts out here comes to work on the first day too well dressed.

      Everyone remedies that by the next day.

      You adapt to the social environment. "Girls" that are supposed to have better social skills should have no problem with that.

  12. miket82

    Unrecognised talents

    I once asked a woman I was interviewing what her skills were.

    She replied 'none, for the last 22 years I've been bringing up our 4 children'

    I replied 'so you don't consider that being an expert in HR, financial management, social work, catering, health and safety, time management, transportation logistics and well developed negotiating skills to name just a few are important?'

    I doubt the current crop of HR based assessment centres and their psychological tick boxes would have picked her skills up.

    She got the job and went on to become very successful.

    My point. Forget the past, look at the future and the potential. Gender is only one aspect to consider and is no less or more important than any other attribute.

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