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back to article How UK gov's 'growth' measures are ALREADY killing the web

Yesterday the House of Lords debated measures smuggled into the proposed Enterprise and Regulatory Reform law - measures that would lead to fewer photographs on the web and potentially cripple British businesses. Allow ace aerial photographer Jonathan Webb to explain. Webb runs an aerial photography business and deals with …

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      1. Keep Refrigerated
        Reply Icon
        FAIL

        Re: Let's pretend the internet doesn't exist for a minute... bear with me...

        Well that is the truth, someone can steal your number-plates and not just number plates, whole cars get stolen. But the difference once again comes down to cost-benefit.

        Whilst it's trivial and would take less than 3 seconds to steal a print left on the street, even less time to Ctrl+C and copy an image - for a small amount of risk and storage space. It's a bit more risky to steal a car in that you can't hide it up your jumper and you can't hide it once it's in your possession (without paying a lot more than a picture for storage space).

        That's even ignoring the fact that you can take a picture of a picture and you can create a slightly inferior copy that you can enjoy. You can't take a picture of a car and say now I have another slightly less quality car to drive!

        So I'm not sure how you defeat my analogy? It just makes me think you didn't really read my comment and neither did those who upvoted you. Why even bother replying?

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  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Quadcopter

    £1800 an hour, someone needs to tell this guy that he can get the same results using a quadcopter for a fraction of the price. Then he wouldn't have any excuse for such exorbitant prices.

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    1. Dodgy Geezer Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Childcatcher

      Re: Quadcopter

      ... Until, of course, a law comes in banning photo-snooping via unmanned R/C aircraft...

      Won't somebody think of the children..!!!!

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      1. Kevin Johnston
        Reply Icon

        Re: Quadcopter

        Already underway in the US I believe...

        http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/18/flying_camera_drones_face_ban/

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    2. Richard 12 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Quadcopter

      Actually, you can't.

      Remote-controlled model aircraft are not permitted to go that high, and the batteries in a quad/octo don't last that long either - 20min is about the longest you'll get.

      You can take a lot of really nice photos with a big quad or octo, but the aircraft to carry a decent camera is going to cost £5k or more.

      Model aircraft are great for chase cams though!

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  3. chris lively
    WTF?

    Although I agree with the idea that copyright protection is bein weakened, I don't agree that this is the cause for loss of income for the aerial photographer. With the advent of google maps, his services are now outrageously expensive for what he does.

    If I want to see an aerial photo of my house I can pull up google maps and quickly find it. I can then use streetview to see what the front looks like from the ground. Same for my place of business and pretty much most

    places I would care to see in the world. I haven't bothered, but I'm pretty sure Bristol is covers as well.

    So, although I agree copyright is a mess, this particular instance isn't one that should be dwelled on.

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    1. Peladon
      Reply Icon

      Lord Chris

      May I suggest that, if said photographer is currently in business, there are clients who (for whatever reason) are in fact prepared to pay for his services, or the results of his activity?

      While the techniques and technology you cite may in fact suit your specific needs, those clients, for reasons they find sufficient, do not choose to use them. They (currently) pay whatever his rates may be (and whether or not others not in fact clients think those rates appropriate) for the results of his work.

      If those results (of his work) cease to be available, might it be possible the needs of those clients (not necessarily your needs or mine) will no longer be met? Alternatively, the perceived need may still be present, and the results of his work 'available'. But 'available' from 'suppliers' who did not carry out the work. 'Suppliers' who obtained his product under this legislation. And may offer those results at a price reflecting the amount of cost and effort they have in fact put in.

      That is - bugger all, or a close approximation (sorry - my inner dwarf (blush)).

      If in the absence of this legislation, he goes bust anyway, that's one thing. If he doesn't currently go bust, but in the presence of this legislation does so - might that be another thing entirely?

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    2. halftone
      Reply Icon

      "With the advent of google maps, his services are now outrageously expensive for what he does."

      So all hamburgers should cost 99p because that's what Macdonalds charge, and it's outrageous that GBK charge £8.99 for a bit of beef in a bun? It appears you lack all taste and judgement.

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      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        The customer defines value.

        Not you, the government or anyone else.

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  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I am very much OK with royalty free images

    I think we have enough images of the royal family by now..

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  5. Nibinaear

    Negative viewpoint?

    I'm actually in favor of this. It means that internet freedom gets a boost and people can actually do things without being bullied by every company in sight because of "patents" all the time.

    I'm not sure about the negative tone of the article at all. The economic argument is important but I'd choose personal freedom any day. In any case the ability to publish more may have unknown economic benefits.

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  6. Syntax Error
    FAIL

    Trouble for Mr Webb is how much is an aerial picture actually worth?

    Not 1500 quid to most people.

    He just needs to find a new area of photography or more likely he is over-reacting. Perhaps he should wait till he starts loosing clients because of the change of law.

    He could perhaps photo to order rather than just go out and take photos with the copter and try and flog them afterwards.

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  7. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    Boffin

    Is this really so difficult?

    This has exactly nothing to do with people making photographs moving out of the country. Nor does it have anything to do with the semantic differences of 'theft', 'stolen', 'appropriated' or any of the other words bandied around upthread.

    It's a land-grab by corporate interests, no more, no less... there are companies out there who can save a few bucks by grabbing images which do not at first glance appear to have an author/copyright owner.

    There should be exactly *one* case where an unattributed image may be used: where its age can be shown to be such that any copyright has expired. In any other case you either pay the attributed agency, or you DON'T USE IT in any commercial context.

    If you allow the grabbing of these unattributed images there is little doubt that attribution *will* be removed, that the authors of such works will cease to make them, and the general quality of available images will descend into the slurry of incompetence already all too visible. Perhaps, eventually, the agencies needing the images might start to commission them directly... thereby giving themselves the copyrights. You can be sure that they *will* defend the rights to use those images.

    It's not rocket science.

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    1. arrbee
      Reply Icon

      Re: Is this really so difficult?

      Agreed. Mind you, it is quite touching how many people still associate the internet with individual freedom when for the most part it has long-since morphed into a corporate demesne.

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  8. Wrong ended schtick

    Well at least they aren't blocking it

    (Great Chinese firewall like), as they are here in Australia. Fearlessly speak openly (for we can castrate your words) and censor your kids from speaking any further ills (we know where u live dissenting punk... Bwaahahahahaaaa$

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  9. cortland
    Pint

    Why am I thinking

    Vogon policy?

    Your lot are as bad as ours here in the Untied States!

    Yes, another, please.

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  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    > But if you have an aerial photograph of Manchester there are a gazillion images.

    While I feel a measure of sympathy for this photographer, the above statement seems to suggest that the market value for a "picture of Manchester" is rather low due to the abundance of it.

    His pictures may be of excellent quality, but I'm afraid the day is rapidly coming to a close where media producers can take single images/make single recording/etc and continue to make money from facsimile copies ad infinitum.

    The floodgates are open, the stable door has closed/horse long gone: welcome to the new world where copyright just doesn't work.

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