back to article Hmm, I think I'll order an iPad Mini on Amazon ... Oh no I won't

Amazon has weighed into the tablet pooh-pooh battle, following Apple's blow by blow comparison with a Samsung Galaxy Tab during the iPad Mini launch last week. The gloves are off down at Tablet Club, and this time the iPad Mini is on the receiving end. Amazon is taking a direct swipe at Apple's littlest Pad with a point by …

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Anonymous Coward

Product one: We are bigger than Product 2!!! Buy us it's better!

Product two: We are smaller than Product 1!!! Buy us it's better!

Customer: Shut up.

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Joke

Or . . .

Product one: We are bigger than Product 2!!! Buy us it's better!

Product two: We are smaller than Product 1!!! Buy us it's better!

Sensible rational customer: Oh ... do shut up, the pair of you!

Apple customer: Mmmm, iPad! Shut up and take my money!

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Flame

Re: Or . . .

Any thumbs down on my comment above could really only come from Apple fanbois.

Get a life you sad muppets with more money than sense!

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Gimp

Re: Or . . .

"Sense" of humor possibly? I'm a long-time Apple user myself, and I plead guilty to past fanboiage. Um, well, yes, perhaps the occasional relapse. Also eating the pint of Chocolate Fudge Brownie in one sitting. And speeding. Once. Maybe twice. (ahem)

But DJGM still owes me a new keyboard.

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Thumb Up

Love it

A company with the advertised budget and punch to sock it to Apple.

About bloody time.

<Steps into flameproof suit>

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I hate this kind of comparison chart... Why not add:

Number of Tablet-specific Apps available: Fire: 5,000(?) iPad: 300,000+

Can use 3G data: Fire NO iPad: YES

Sync with iTunes: Fire: NO iPad: YES

Use iCloud to backup and sync: Fire: NO iPad: YES

Has an apple on the back: Fire: NO iPad: YES

Sadly, people will think these comparison charts are the *only* difference between the 2 devices... :/

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agreed

Clearly not a balanced list - I am sure the fire has loads of abilities to get books from amazon and all that jazz as well. Personally I'll stick to my laptop for porn and a book for reading.

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Anonymous Coward

Sync with iTunes: Fire: NO iPad: YES

Use iCloud to backup and sync: Fire: NO iPad: YES

Has an apple on the back: Fire: NO iPad: YES

No it cannot do those things. I think that is sort of the point.

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Not sure how not being able to sync with Apple's shitty desktop or backup software is a bad thing. And iCloud sync? You do know that Google stuff has been sync'ing for years upon years, right?

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You do know that Google stuff has been sync'ing for years upon years, right?

So 'years upon years' is four? (2009 for Google - if you look it up).

(ps not wishing to get into the whole platform thing - I probably did that in the eighties and grew out of it - but four years isn't 'years upon years'. 'Years upon years' has a certain gravitas in the English language which denotes a cultural and social acceptance as a norm over a significant period of time - which three years doesn't come close to.

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Re: agreed

Excluding games consoles, is there a modern computing device that can't get books from amazon?

The only kindle worth having is the e-ink version. The android one isn't worth my time because quite frankly the only real good use for a budget tablet is reading books anyway.

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Facepalm

Re: You do know that Google stuff has been sync'ing for years upon years, right?

in mobile computing terms 4 years is a lot. just 5 years back, the iphone just about made it's debut and the word ipad would probably conjure up images of a sanitary product for the ladies.

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Re: You do know that Google stuff has been sync'ing for years upon years, right?

So 'years upon years' is four? (2009 for Google - if you look it up).

Holy shit, an exaggeration on the Internet! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

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I agree with AC @ 17:26. The inability of the Kindle to sync with iTunes and log into iCloud should be listed as selling features.

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Ummm, I think MaFt was making the point that feature comparison charts from biased sources are usually a little ridiculous by supplying some absurd suggestions. He doesn't deserve the negative votes.

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Mushroom

Re: You do know that Google stuff has been sync'ing for years upon years, right?

@zanto

and the word ipad would probably conjure up images of a sanitary product for the ladies.

Strangely enough, it still does. And coming out with the ipad mini didn't help things any! Bwahahahahahahah

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Headmaster

Re: You do know that Google stuff has been sync'ing for years upon years, right?

Four years = [two] years upon [two] years. It doesn't have the "gravitas", but technically true, and certainly true in the fast-moving world of mobile computing.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: You do know that Google stuff has been sync'ing for years upon years, right?

Technically, the phrase "years upon years" is accurate, and would surely only require 4 years, minimum.

Taking "years" to mean at least 2, the least amount required to make the word in plural form, then 2 years on 2 years would indeed be 4 years.

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Pint

Re: agreed

"Personally I'll stick to my laptop for porn and a book for reading."

Pads are much easier to wipe clean than keyboards.

Just sayin'...

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Thumb Up

Oh c'mon people

It's a reductio ad absurdam, but it points out a real problem with advertising in general, and some types of feature comparisons. Both tend to mislead buyers, and neither consistently answers the primary question:

Will the product do what the buyer needs it to do?

Is it a tool capable of performing the task the buyer has in mind?

I can look at Amazon's comparison - or MaFt's sarcastic version - all day, and they're equally useless for determining if I can, for example, transfer all my MP3s, from an ext2 formatted USB flash drive, then play them in order or shuffled or in playlists...Oh, and also have the tablet check the Internet for associated album covers once a day to fill in ones I'm missing.

Yes, an absurd example. But MaFt is correct, "Sadly" a number of buyers will be misled by a product comparison of the type posted by Amazon.

Seeing two items compared leads people to believe they are comparable. Worse, it leads some to believe they are equivalent.

Advertisers know this. It's part of the psychology of advertising. No matter how irrelevant the information for the buyer's intended purpose, advertisers and marketers know a clever comparison will inevitably make a percentage of people believe even wildly different products are somehow interchangeable.

Let me repeat that:

Comparison charts like Amazon's are designed to make a certain number of buyers believe two products are equivalent. Interchangeable. Capable of performing the same functions. Close enough to each other, there's no "reason" to buy the more expensive one.

Like MaFt, I dislike that kind of chart. But what he attempted to say via sarcastic example, I prefer to say flat out:

I dislike those charts because they are designed intentionally to mislead consumers. Every word in them may be true, but the end result is much a lie as the most blatant false advertising, which to my mind makes them worse.

So one upvote from me for MaFt

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Paris Hilton

Is that the best they could do?

Point 1: It has an HD screen

Point 2: Better PPI because it has an HD screen (and is a bit smaller)

Point 3: did we mention it has an HD screen

Paris because maybe she writes copy for Amazon

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Unhappy

Apple & Amazon

They're both dicks and I won't be buying either product.

(My Xoom sucks enough as it is, and it doesn't even have Amazon DRM)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Apple & Amazon

Your Xoom sucks as it's just crappy - I have two friends with Xooms and both don't like them much and don't use them much and both wish they had bought iPads.

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Anonymous Coward

Sorry, the Apple products aren't yet "the same as everyone else's".

So Kindles aren't about selling hardware -- they're about selling media. Unfortunately, Amazon's media offerings are nowhere near as simple, unified, and visually nice to look at as what Apple does. The combination of Manage Your Kindle, Amazon Instant Video, Amazon Cloud Player, etc., etc. is a confusing mess to Amazon employees, much less customers who are looking for a slick alternative to Apple.

It's the user experience part that Amazon still isn't getting. Remember when the iPod first came out, and all the reviewers said it would fail because on technical, point-by-point features (not including user experience) it didn't seem nearly as good as alternatives already out there? They were missing the point then, and they're missing the point now.

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Re: Sorry, the Apple products aren't yet "the same as everyone else's".

I don't know what Amazon have done to Android, but if they've really botched it, just get a Nexus 7 or Nexus 10. Better specs and lower prices than equivalents from Apple, and the user experience is just as good if not better (finally get copy/paste, did you? How are those maps looking?)

"Remember when the iPod first came out, and all the reviewers said it would fail because on technical, point-by-point features"

No, all I remember is wall-to-wall media hype and free advertising, just like every Apple product gets before its released, whilst other better alternatives are ignored. The media don't claim Apple will ever fail - that's reserved for products like Symbian, Android, Windows (all of which have gone on to sell far more than Apple's platforms).

Plus comparing on specs is all Apple and its fans do these days - remember PPI and "Retina"? Oh wait - it's okay to compare on a meaningless spec and parade it as the single most important thing ever when it's Apple that it benefits (same with multitouch), but when they're outdone on the very thing they said was important, you suddenly retreat to this wishy-washy argument of "well specs don't matter, it's better because of this magical reason that I can't explain why".

No, competing products do just fine on user experience.

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Stop

Re: Sorry, the Apple products aren't yet "the same as everyone else's".

"Better specs and lower prices than equivalents from Apple"

"Plus comparing on specs is all Apple and its fans do these days"

So it's not just Apple and its fans who compare specs then, is it?

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Re: Sorry, the Apple products aren't yet "the same as everyone else's".

Er... I have no problem comparing on specs. Comparing on specs is fine, that's my point.

It was the other person claiming that we shouldn't compare on specs, instead preferring vague terms like "build quality" - and I'm just pointing out that actually, comparing on specs is what Apple fans themselves do all the time anyway.

Talk about completely missing my point.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sorry, the Apple products aren't yet "the same as everyone else's".

How soon we forget. And same thing happened when iPad was introduced. I'll see if I can find some links that still exist.

There are Apple fans that actually have different opinions than the few that post here--amazing, I know. Specs are the last thing I look at when considering Apple--I check specs before buying, but it's not the first thing. I don't argue about specs on this board. And I never use the phrase "build quality". That means nothing to me. UE isn't magic or wishy-washy--it's a discipline like any other, just harder to measure.

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Re: Sorry, the Apple products aren't yet "the same as everyone else's".

Early iPod reviews from 2001:

www.geekosystem.com/ipod-2001-ipad-bad-reviews

www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/news/2001/10/47805

www.mobileindustryreview.com/2006/03/the_ipod_what_a.html

Technology Business Research analyst Tim Deal said in 2001: "Clearly Apple is following Sony's lead by integrating consumer electronics devices into its marketing strategy, but Apple lacks the richness of Sony's product offering. And introducing new consumer products right now is risky, especially if they cannot be priced attractively."

Stephen Baker, an analyst at NPD Intelect, said that the iPod will likely stand out for its large storage capacity but predicted that the device may have trouble digging out a niche in the market.

____________

early iPad reviews from 2010:

www.asymco.com/2011/03/04/flummoxed-again

www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/29/apple-ipad-review-photos_n_441770.html

John Biggs, TechCrunch:

"The device, as it stands, is so close to the original iPhone that you get a sense of Deja Vu when you open the box and are exposed to the empty canvas bare of apps. Out of the box it is, at best, a large iPod Touch."

On the other hand, Walt Mossberg said presciently:

"It's about the software, stupid", meaning hardware features and build are less important to the iPad's success than software and user interface, his first impressions of which were largely positive.

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Anonymous Coward

MIMO eh?

'Cause enough of your average Amazoners knows what MIMO is - worth sticking it in the comparison?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: MIMO eh?

It's a colloquial Australian mime artist, yes?

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Anonymous Coward

Where's Google's Nexus 7 in this fight?

The clear winner on price point *and* freedom has got to be the Nexus 7, yet marketing wise, things have been a little quiet from Google - at least, on the sites I've been visiting.

I saw a TV ad a while back for the Nexus 7, but I have to admit, I avoid TV advertising for the most part.

Whilst the iPad 2/3/4 is clearly a class act, the price point and the walled garden leave little to be desired.

The Kindle Fire, as far as I'm concerned, is little more than a store front - it's Amazon's own walled garden. Sure, you can bung on a custom rom to unleash it, so it's an option.

The Nexus 7 is surely the better option for a cheap tablet - I'd expect Google to be making a lot more of a song and dance about it. Then again, it's actually quite refreshing they aren't, so that's the one I'll be getting this Xmas.

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Re: Where's Google's Nexus 7 in this fight?

add to that the new prices and it's hard to imagine anyone competing with the nexus 7.

while their earlier attempts at hardware failed, google branded hardware has started gettting it right on features at prices that are very attractive.

apple might as well have named the ipad mini as the ipad vista.

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Re: Where's Google's Nexus 7 in this fight?

They aren't in this fight because this is a fight being publicised & financed by Amazon, on their own website. Of course they aren't going to compare to the Nexus 7.

"Hey, I hear you're after an iPad mini ... well, have you considered the Kindle Fire HD? Its better & cheaper ... oh, but did you also realise you can get an even better & cheaper product from Google? No? Well, go check it out at google.co.uk/nexus and then you can order from them direct and cut us out completely! You're welcome."

Nope. Not going to happen.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Where's Google's Nexus 7 in this fight?

All the nexus 7 needs is a tiny, little, micro sd slot... and i'd already own two...

although with 32gb out now I MIGHT finally buy one...

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Anonymous Coward

anyone who buys a tablet instead of a netbook, lapttop, or full sized tower is just saying, Oh yeah, ill waste an extra 600$ on less power and less control and less apps/games. Oh, and i love the screen sizes of tablets, great for squinting compared to my rather small 21" screen here.

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Anonymous Coward

"anyone who buys a tablet instead of a netbook, lapttop, blah blah blah.."

Personally, I leave my hexacore i7 and honking great GPU box at home and use my Nexus 7 when commuting- it's getting increasingly hard to find somewhere to install it all during the morning commute. Damn privatisation!

(Trans: You, sir, are a curious cross between a dickhead and a dinosaur- and startlingly ill-informed, to boot.)

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Anonymous Coward

Kindle not available here

The Kindle Fire is not available in my country so I ordered an iPad Mini. Sorry Amazon.

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iFad?

The new iPad mini needs to be either 1/2 the price or twice the spec. It's like the spec of a no-name tablet, made in same country but x3 the price.

Only fans or people doing no research into subject will buy it. Cook better hope that Jobs really is dead and not faking or Forstall won't be the only one looking for a new job.

If you have no intention of buying Amazon content then a Samsung might be better. If it's Amazon content you want (and hardly any is eBooks), then the Fire looks best.. If you only want Amazon eBooks then the "paperwhite" is best.

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Anonymous Coward

7" Android tablets are great as a book reader and for internet scraping widgets

I would definitely avoid the 800x600 7" tablet nonsense, that's too low-res; however my open-box HTC Flyer is fine and IMHO beats the higher res Google, Amazon and Apple ones because it has a micro-SD slot.

Out of the above 3 new small tablets, the Amazon looks the most competitive. The Apple Tablet is plain uncompetitive, underspec'd, and the bumps to 32GB and 64GB take the P.

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Holmes

Right back to the article.

So every reason that they seem to list is the same reason over and over again. Our screen is a hi def screen. And they seem to just drop the last reason ... Being wifi, which the mini has. It comes down to apps people. Apple has them.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Right back to the article.

It's funny that Apple fans tout 'quality over quantity' all of the time with 'build quality' and other nonsense, but then blather on about how many more apps the Apple store has.

As long as you don't need 300 different apps that do the same thing (or 300,000 in the case of fart apps), then there's no need for 500,000+ apps.

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Linux

Re: Right back to the article.

@ all

I don't get the app count thing really. I have about a dozen or so core apps that I use on my tablet and my phone (both android). Beyond that, who cares?

As for quality, well, I think 1200 x 800 is better quality than 1024 x 768, no matter how you spin it, pixel density is going to win. Unless you walk around with your screen on full bright all day long, you won't ever realize the supposed difference in any of them.

Amazon: Store front, good price, great if you are a fan of that company.

iPad: apple store front (no different than amazon really), lame price, low spec, obviously a fan of that company.

nexus 7: barely a store front, good price, and you get to do what you want where you want how you want to do it, along with the same high res screen as the kindle plus the bonus of a GPS, accelerometor, and compass.

(OK, i was fanboing it up a bit there at the end, but you get the picrue)

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Mushroom

Re: Right back to the article.

I would LOVE a lower cost option dude. Call me a fanboi all you want but I use what works. Let me tell you a quick story. I have used apples since the late 90's. Last time I upgraded my computer (which happens every 5 years or so) I bought a lower cost dell studio 15 inch which had top of the line specs at the time. I went all out on it because it still cost less than an apple. I was very excited to get a faster machine etc., until I tried to plug the thing into my home studio. Not one thing worked with that bitch machine. It was so full of oem ware it was constantly fighting everything I wanted to do. It took me weeks trying to figure what was plug and play on a Mac. If I was lucky enough to get it working at all it didn't work like it should. Then the whole thing started to fall apart. I upgraded my studio gear several times trying to work around windows and oem ware. I went high end spending way more than I should have negating any attempted savings. YESTERDAY I pulled out my g4 PowerBook 1.6 gig powerp.c. And plugged in my 2011 audio interface into it ... Just to try out of exasperation. HOLYCRAP, not only was it plug and play, it actually listed the device in the drop down menu. WTF, that PowerBook was built ten freaking years before the audio device. It's running unsupported PANTHER. How did it do that? I was and am floored. As far as my version one iPad is concerned. I have three pages of semi professional apps that are NOT available for android. If they were I would use it. Not only do they not have the apps, but the ones they do have look like they were done by high schoolers. Not only do they not have the apps except the ones that look like a waste of money, but they don't work half the time when you do buy them. They may work on one device... sometimes, and then not work on the next device. I don't want to use apple... I have to, because the android and windows community can't offer me what I want or need. Get the apps, get them to work, and I will buy in.

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Thumb Up

profit fairies

.... I want to meet one. Oh wait, these are called "Apple fanboys"!

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Anonymous Coward

Many alternatives

In all the talk about what is better between iPad Mini, Kindle Fire HD and Nexus 7, the real price/performnace winners are being missed. Chinese branded tablets driven by SoCs from companies like Rockchip, AMLogic and Actions Semiconductor can be bought for for half the price with superior specifications, screens that blow the iPad mini's out of the water and features like removable microSD cards, HDMI output and USB host functionality. Just look up names like Ramos, Onda, Cube, Ainol, Zenithink.

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Van

Still doesn't make me want a tablet.

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Silver badge

If this hurt Apple's sales, Apple could just pull the product from Amazon

People don't go to Amazon to look for a "tablet" to buy, they presumably already know if they want to buy an iPad, a Galaxy Tab or a Kindle Fire since Amazon is not exactly a great place to do product comparison. But if this gave Apple buyers some doubts and caused some to switch to the cheaper alternative (I could see this happening if buying it as a Christmas present for someone else, saving the buyer $130) then Apple could stop selling to Amazon with little or no effect on their sales since people looking to buy an Apple product aren't going to give up just because Amazon doesn't carry it.

If I was looking to buy one and Amazon didn't carry them, I'd check Newegg or whoever. The only reason I'd be buying from Amazon in the first place is avoidance of sales taxes, but there are certainly other places that don't have a nexus in my state I could buy from - I just check Amazon first out of habit.

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More magic than you see

For those who want to know what the iPad mini can't do see

http://www.tapscape.com/kindle-fire-hd-vs-ipad-mini-the-real-comparison/

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I'll be buying the iPad Mini...

The Kindle Fire?

I would have considered it instead except that Amazon doesn't want my money.

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