back to article Education Secretary Gove: Tim Berners-Lee 'created the INTERNET'

Facebook, Microsoft, IBM and BT have been signed up by the Education Secretary Michael Gove - who thinks Tim Berners Lee is the "creator of the internet" - to offer industry insights into the type of computer science skills British school kids need to be equipped with for the workplace. A £20,000 scholarship was also announced …

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Re: The Distinction....

Yes, it really would. The Internet is a physical network and all the logical structures related to packet layer communications. The World Wide Web is an application. As is DNS, FTP, Gopher, email etc. The two are entirely distinct.

Its really like saying that the telephone network is the same as the emergency services because you access the emergency service via the telephone network.

Derp.

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Re: The Distinction....

@captain veg

you'll notice i didn't ask what the distinction was. i just pointed out that in common usage they are often regarded as synonyms.

the mistake is more of Hoover / vacuum cleaner interchange. it is absolutely nothing like confusing "a computer" for "Microsoft Excel" nothing at all.

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Re: The Distinction....

Wrong wrong, wrongity wrong wrong.

The computer / Excel analog is entirely correct.

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Re: The Distinction....

>The Internet is a physical network and all the logical structures related to packet layer communications.

Or the internet is a protocol on top of the wired network - or actually these days generally on top of some other packet protocol.

It's friday and I'm feeling pedantic

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Sage?

It isn't the "job of policy makers to ensure our children don't access this type of material".

I wouldn't trust the majority of "policy makers" (whatever that actually means; substitute the word "policy" with the word "useless white noise" and it's perhaps a bit closer to the truth) to collect my recycling, let alone bring up my children.

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So near, yet so far.

Gove's still a bellend, but I do have to give him some (grudging) credit for recognising that ICT teaching in this country leaves a lot to be desired.

Still, asking facebook to get involved? Will my kids homework come back with a "Like" on it?

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FAIL

What is worse?

A politician who doesn't know the difference between the Internet and the WWW, or a tech site that doesn't know the difference between the Internet and the internet.

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Re: What is worse?

"the difference between the Internet and the internet"

Had you said "the Internet and an internet", I might have had some sympathy, but you didn't and neither did El Reg. Even "the one and only one true Internet(tm)" is still distinct from the web, and even people like Gove ought to be aware of this, since *surely* he has heard of email?

If you are determined to blur all useful technical distinctions, at least have the decency to call it the "interwebs" or "tubes" so that everyone knows you are doing so.

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The problem isn't a lack of IT teachers at all but the general method. A seperate subject for advanced stuff and to improve skills is great but all the other subjects should be done using computers all the time just like in the workplace. Teachers of other subjects need to improve on their IT skills.

At the moment we have the equivalent of 1 or 2 pens per class, once in a while a whole class gets one for a single lesson! Other countries have a pc or tablet per child all the time. We are *not* a world leader and will continue to be left further and further behind

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Headmaster

Re: What is worse"

"A politician who doesn't know the difference between the Internet and the WWW, or a tech site that doesn't know the difference between the Internet and the internet."

There is no such thing as the internet.

There is Internet Protocol though. Internet means 'between networks'.

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Headmaster

deispite all the argument above

The fundamental point for me is

Gove == Idiot

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Re: deispite all the argument above

>The fundamental point for me is

>Gove == Idiot

Even more worryingly, compared with almost every other minister that has buggered around with education in the last 20 years - he isn't.

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Anonymous Coward

no no no! the big blue E is for the enterweb.

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FAIL

The shame of it is

back in the early 80s, the UK was light years ahead of the rest of the world when it came to computing in education. Every *class* had a BBC micro by 1985. Even the US got worried by how quickly we'd started running with the ball.

Not quite sure what went wrong.

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Re: The shame of it is

>Not quite sure what went wrong.

The advantages of mastering:

10 print "johnny is a w_nker"

20 goto 10

In the global economy, was rather less than we thought?

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And what a brilliant wheeze to bring in MS, that company that is so innovative and forward thinking that they dismissed the internet as a "fad"

Gove is such an idiot, and yet he dares to try to tell us about education. Somebody tell him what irony means.

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Headmaster

I think...

What is frustrating is that the people who use these incorrect terms are generally people who have taken the trouble to enrol on some sort of computer training course (like ECDL) and they have been taught this nonsense by people who have used a computer for a few months and now consider themselves an expert. I fully accept that these classes don't need to be taught by professors in IT, but when you don't get the basics right you set these poor students up for ridicule (rightly or wrongly).

As for IT as a subject in Secondary Schools, I do wonder if it's not a waste of time. Computers are an essential part of life, yes, but they cross the curriculum. You do not need to study IT to use a computer. If you want to learn IT you are probably better studying it in further/continued education where it can be given the depth of experience it requires.

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Re: I think...

That's the difference between ICT and CS.

ICT (=typing up your HW in Word) crosses the curriculum and other than perhaps having typing lessons in junior school alongside learning joined-up-writing - probably doesn't need it's own GCSE

CS is a reasonably genuine subject, it's either applied maths or applied engineering. So just like all the other sciences are applied physics but they still get their own classroom.

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Algore?

The only thing Algore ever invented was Algore. He lies a lot.

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Coat

Re: Algore?

Did he invent the algorithm?

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Anonymous Coward

42

That's Numberwang!

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Re: 42

my favorite was the episode where they accidentally said numberwank

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Trollface

"My computer isn't working" isn't a whole lot of good, especially if what they mean is they can't get Excel to open"

Is the internet down my explorer wont connect?

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Childcatcher

Puh! Oh!!

Buh!!!

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WTF?

Maybe our Education Secretaries/Ministers should study cognitive/developmental pyschology

Am I the only one who finds it seriously dodgy that our education ministers are trying to tell us what type of teachers we need when they have zero grasp of cognitive/developmental or educational psychology? Do you suppose Gove even knows who people like Donaldson and Piaget are or does he think they invented the toilet seat?

As someone who studied computer science a loooong time ago and also as a recent (ish) graduate in Information Systems (posh name for ICT) I recognise that both subjects are completely different and both are just as necessary as each other.

99.99999% of computer users (whether for pleasure or work) need to know absolutely nothing about computer science but they do need to know how to use computers for things like spreadsheets, presentations, email, MIS, workflow, CRM, accounts, POs etc etc etc.

As someone who has taught thousands of people in an industrial environment who were forced to go from paper systems to workflows fully managed by software, I can say from experience that Gove is an ass.

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teaching is a skill in itself

I have met plenty of decent enough engineers who are terrible at training others.

If you know how to teach properly (and being a trained academic teacher does not necessarily mean that you know how to teach properly) and you can research your subject matter then you can teach anybody anything at all.

You don't need to have a degree in computer science to teach people computer related subjects, the ability to coach and train is way more important

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If computer science is so important

Why is it not part of the E-Bacc, whilst Latin is?

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Anonymous Coward

Gove

The muppets muppet. No cabinet in recent years would be complete without one, someone so vile and instantly dislikable they add a touch of gloss and star quality to the mere 'complete losers' by comparison.

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Way to go Gove, invite the problem, Microsoft, to be the solution. Back to school for you.

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FAIL

Hold on. This article is dated 19th October. I've just been to the scholarship application website and it says: closing date 2nd October.

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Anonymous Coward

Tim Berners-Lee 'created the INTERNET'

Where the web was born

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Big Brother

RE: What is worse?

"A politician who doesn't know the difference between the Internet and the WWW, "

When it comes to taxing and regulating it, the less they know about things other than the Web, the better.

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Anonymous Coward

@everyone

It's maths with a feckin' S on the end, because it's a contraction of "mathematics". It's not "math". Saying "math" makes you sound like an arth!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @everyone

Or American. The actual word is mathematics as you state. Math and maths are just abbreviations. Strictly speaking they should both be suffixed with full stops (or periods).

The language has evolved since we colonised the world. And everyone's English came from the same place originally. You can fight it, but it's ultimately not worth it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: @everyone

Math would need a full stop (period) as it is missing the rest of the word. maths does not require a period as the last letter is at the end of the word.

And that should be colonized (the original and still the best).

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FAIL

Google thinks so too!

According to Google he did invent the internet.

Google "who invented the internet" and the top spot is TBL's wiki entry - so it must be true!

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Bigger story was missed here.

The fact that our IT is so bad they are going to start teaching children Facebook and Office to try and get them back on track!....

My sons school doesnt support Open or LibreOffice and think every parent should buy MicrosoftOffice to do the "ICT" courses.

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I hope to God none of you ever attempt to teach. The problem with Gove's little fantasy (mirrored in The Thick of It) is that when people turn up to work they need to know how to use Word, Excel and Outlook. They do not need to know how to write some silly thing for a mobile.

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Anonymous Coward

No, they need to be taught how to use a word processor or a spreadsheet. Knowing the concepts (Style sheets, Kerning, orphan text etc.) enables you to use the application (even Wordstar). If you only know how to use a specific application, then the industry stagnates.

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