Listen up, Nokia: Get Lumia show-offs in pubs or it's game over Nokia has a couple of mountains to climb. There's the real mountain: in the marketplace it's starting from scratch, a newcomer that just happens to have a large distribution business in place, and a couple of billion euros in capital. Then there's the metaphorical mountain, which is a mountain of cliches. For Nokia to survive …
I can only think Nokia are trying to replicate the success they had in the 90s with the swappable covers for their 6220 (I think). They don't seem to realise that the market has matured a lot since then and no-one wants those stupid garish covers any more.
@Ocular Sinister
"They don't seem to realise that the market has matured a lot since then and no-one wants those stupid garish covers any more."
You don't get out much, do you? And you certainly have never visited Asia.
Repeat after me. USA != World, Europe != World
Just throwing it out there so don't take offense.
If you're young and missed the 80's, watch "Hot Tub Time Machine". Check the loud colors of apparel etc. All fads and styles come and go, as I have surprisingly gotten much older than I ever believed I would, it's interesting to watch this happen, and each generation thinks it's new. There may be a few variations but the overall different styles and color schemes seem to rotate over the decades. Skirts go up and down, solid colors vs. stripes and (OMFG) plaids. Bright colors vs. dark.
What I'm getting at is somebody thinks it's time for bright colors to come back. Might be economic in essence, hard times seem to equal darker colors, good/prosperity bring out bright color. Maybe we're coming out of our economic funk? Dunno. Reckon we'll see.
I've watched this launch with interest. I like the Nokia Industrial Design around the N9 and I think these continue it, but what really interests me is the PureView technology. I really want to get my hands on this, and nearly bought an 808 (and I know this isn't the same) because having a decent camera in the phone is quite important to me.
Having spent the last 9 months with the N9 I've also realised that I don't really need millions of apps. Surprisingly, a half decent web browser lets you do most of what you need, and the minor apps I do need? Well fortunately someone's written them. I'm therefore agnostic on the UI and don't mind whether it's WP, iOS or Android....
One slight problem for that USP. How long do you think it will remain unique?
Samsung have a camera division that's been building optically stabilised cameras for years. If this really is a killer feature how long till Samsung phones have it grafted on? For a yardstick, a few weeks back Apple told a court it takes Samsung 3 months to catch up with 5 years Apple effort. And there are rumours Samsung were preparing this before the Nokia announcement anyway!
Sony also have the tech, acquired from Konica Minolta 4-5 years ago and have some pretty good sensor tech of their own.
Even if you're right Nokia won't have long to milk this USP. With the likely launch dates still far off maybe zero time if Samsung are galvanised into action.
Another case of announcing 1st in an industry full of early and premature announcements. iPhone5 panic.
@shirley
The difference IS, that Nokia has no camera market to defend. Sony and Samsung have very large businesses selling pocket (and other) cameras. Providing too much technology/quality in a phone will canabilise sales from these markets. Corporate internecine wars will ensue. Nokia has no such business to worry about.
Also, in case you don't know, Nokia has ALWAYS had the best camera technology in their phones. The BOM for a Nokia smartphone has aleways been weighted towards the camera (relative to other manufacturers). "Pretty Good" cameras have been part of their product differentiation. Nokia were always able to do this because their OS (Symbian) did not require CPUs of desktop specification to operate smoothly and effectively. No longer true though, as WP8/iOS/Android are slugs in comparison.
A big heavy fat slab of yellow, it reminds me of Euro fashion and Euro pop which is about 20 years behind us here.
The Mullet, still popular in Europe, the songs in the Eurovision Song Contest sung by East Europeans, checked scarves, very tight jeans on men, cowboy boots etc etc.
This Nokia Europhone will sell well in some parts of Europe, but thankfully the Channel still provides a barrier of sorts.
Not faulting the logic, Andrew. It's just... it'll be a while before I'll consider nokia again.
The comedown from upgrading my 6310 to a e52 was still smarts. I wanted a phone with lots of features and I wanted it to give me full access to them, both with easily installed utilities and programmatically. The latter is admittedly a niche, but I was seriously planning to write for it, just to see where I could take it, and if good enough release it. I had the time but little money to spend. Turns out, you're not supposed to want that. At all.
On top of that, most of the features are only usable in fairly narrowly-defined use-cases; wander outside those and you might as well untick the box to the feature.
And writing for it? The development environment was pants and completely unsuitable for free software or even just hobbyist writers. The source wasn't available in any usable way or form, despite promises. I mean, shit, a hundred fifty million handsets Out There that run on the freshly released source yet the only thing you are allowed to try it on is... a beagle board. I have better things to run on that, TYVM. RISCOS for one. Certainly not a symbian with spotty beta-quality hardware support, that should be running on a phone in the first place. Then the documentation just up and vanished, leaving shedloads of dead links. And so on, and so forth. They lost a lot of goodwill there. Especially the "not open source, just open for business" bit. That quite literally meant nevermore with the business either, farewell and don't come again.
Now they sold their phones' souls to redmond, and developing for that is, er, by invitation only? That's enough to not even look at anything else they might have on offer. If I want features, I'll get a feature phone. If I'm getting a smartphone, I want a platform that comes with a free pass that says ACCESS ALL AREAS.
I know what I want, and I'm not going to get it at nokia, so I won't bother to look.
Sour? Bitter? Me?
You bet.
I said as much right at the start.
Biased? Me? Absolutely. Yes, that too. A pox on both their houses, I say. But I digress. The point is, I'm but a picky minority, and hey, maybe all those kids who were supposed to flock to those ex-Danger phones, aka the "kin"-fiasco, just maybe they'll pick up on this. Who knows.
But, you know. I just don't see it happening. I don't see nokia suddenly getting it. I don't see them succeeding despite obvious disinterest from redmond to push this to the limit, for as you noted, they've spread themselves thin. The problem there, too, is that they've painted themselves in a multitude of corners. Their design got plastered on the desktop too, where it doesn't work that well. Why would Joe Enterprise Seatwarmer, hating the thing on his desktop, suddenly get more of same on his phone? Even if it works really well on a touchscreen, honest?
The design is a statement, certainly. Might even be nokia had a hand in metronotro. They certainly know to show how important font designs are to them. But will it work? More importantly, will people care enough to make it work for them?
Not me, but disregarding me, who? Julian the Geek? He has a basement full of linux. Franqie Hipster? Why, has apple suddenly become un-hip or something? Eddie Street kid? Doesn't he have like, five blackberries already? Mistah Suitman? With a nice yellow phone to match his suitcase, which is, er, black? Who are they going after, and why? Anyone?
I don't see it and I don't particularly want to know, but maybe the analysis is mildly entertaining. Now if someone could accidentally leak the marketing strategy documents, we could have a laugh or two. Or maybe we'll get to see it flounder and die. Ah, tragedy is an acquired taste, I hear.
So what you're saying is that Nokia need an army of enthusiastic Lumia equipped techheads. The kind who spend most of their lives in the pub showing off their latest gadgets to anyone and everyone. Now all you need to do is persuade Nokia marketing to ditch the poncy faked advertising videos and spend the money on free Lumia phones for all Reg commentards instead!
Beer (as in free).
Didn't they promise a free symbian^5 (or whatever the name was) phone to registered devs after closing the symbian source again? Didn't they promise a free windows phone to same "whenever available"?
I didn't see that happen. Couldn't even sign up at all, as I recall.
"But the real stand-outs are two new imaging features. Both are strong and distinctive and useful enough to transcend the phone blogs and become 'pub tricks' and conversation topics for their new owners."
These are the two features that Nokia has been caught out openly faking ... and given that these phones can't be long away from manufacture (well not if Microsoft actually want phones out there when WP 8 comes out) its pretty worrying and doesn't inspire confidence.
Two down votes for pointing out the truth? Nokia have admitted both video and stills are faked ( search for it if you don't believe).
This phone is weeks away from launch yet at the press release they stopped people playing with them in depth and if they had to fake the video and stills then that implies that their wonderful camera/image tech does not currently work ...
Nokia and Windows phone have a bad image - this latest gaff can't help.
Two down votes for pointing out the truth?
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/7/3299784/nokia-lumia-920-pureview-camera-hi-res-photos
The stills are and were legit (see link) and there are numerous live video demonstrations. It's very hard to fake those.
http://youtu.be/sRMaVNf3zOQ
You've been taking what Richard Plinston says as the truth again, haven't you? Oh dear.
Im getting sick and tired of so called analysts commenting about the newest and greatest killer apps from handset makers.
So ,Nokia?
Whats it like as a phone?
whats its battery life?
whats it like for texting? an onscreen keyboard its useless for folk with large hands
whats it like in overall pockets on an industrial site?
Has it a good clear screen one can see in bright sunlight?
Has it good loud speaker?
so you can hear it over machinery noise?
Given a form factor of say 100mm by 75mm clam shell type theyd be room for a decent screen and a proper querty keyboad, with the screen protected when shut.
Asfor software, a choice from the simplest to a full android experiene.
No handset maker has addressed my kind of use.
Till they do the money stays in my pocket.
I tried to talk to Samsung, couldnt get through and they didnt return my calls
I wrote to them.They couldnt be arsed to reply.
I put it to Car phone warehouse, same response.
Its the same old story.
Think outside of the envelope and one bangs one head against a wall.
Take the clockwork radio the original workmate and other items ive forgotten about.
Tere are tens of thousands of us just in the UK and millions world wide that want such a handset.
Which maker has the guts to actually ask the customer what would you like?
I know what I want and why I want it.
Ill keep using my Nokia 9300 till I find something better.
Sorry - how dare you suggest that a phone should be practical and be used for making phone calls.... you obviously do not understand the market.
Phones are a fashion accessory now - why else would they use so much glass which is brittle and not suited for being in a pocket anywhere let alone on an industrial site - both the iPhone and Galaxy S3 break when they fall off coffee tables, sofas or drop out of pockets onto the floor.
Interestingly, I do understand the market.
Thats why ive chosen to be outside of it, and,
only intereact with it when it suits ME.
Were very fortunate to be independent for everything.
So Everything in my world is based on results.
Wether in my home, business, or my personal life.
If I didnt deliver results in my work I wouldnt be asked to solve other co's engineering problems.
Results? They really are the bottom line.
So Form has to follow function in my world.
what happens in the world of fashion is only of concern when the sheeple follow the latest trend regardless of results, to the exclusion of common sense,and the market panders to them at the expense of real user requirements.
You and them there welcome to it.
"whats it like for texting? an onscreen keyboard its useless for folk with large hands"
It's actually a matter of technique. I have embarrassingly large hands (as in "good luck finding gloves" large). When texting, I use the tip of one index finger at a very slight angle so that the "corner" comes into contact with the screen consistently. Mind, I also use Swiftkey 3, which has really good prediction/correction, which covers up my large error rate pretty wonderfully. On the large-ish screen of the Galaxy S3, it's pretty good.
(I used to get funny looks using my netbook as a palmtop, though... :( )
Talking about the Luia 710...
"Whats it like as a phone?"
Reasonable. Doesn't let you setup the full range of conditional diverts. Sound quality good, handsfree usable.
"whats its battery life?"
About a day (eg wake up til bed time) with reasonable use, 2 days (same basis) with light use.
"whats it like for texting? an onscreen keyboard its useless for folk with large hands"
Not bad, but given your second bit, useless if thats a no-no (although you may not find its as hard as you think, my father is the large hands type and he is managing now we've moved him to a Motoluxe)
"whats it like in overall pockets on an industrial site?"
Can't speak specifically for that, but it seems to survive being thrown around by me.
"Has it a good clear screen one can see in bright sunlight?"
Good, Yes. Clear, Yes. In bright sun... no. You're spoilt with the 9300 as it has transflective. No such here...
"Has it good loud speaker?"
Loud enough. Usual crapness of a speaker applies in a phone.
"so you can hear it over machinery noise?"
Depends how long the "machinery" is...
"Ill keep using my Nokia 9300 till I find something better."
...and therein lies your issue. The bar was set on this many years ago and while I gave mine up eventually, and definately think newer devices outstrip it in many ways, there are admittedly some scenarios where the old communicator range still beats the current crop hands down. Sadly they're too niche for people like Nokia to bother with now. Stupidly, Nokia had this smartphone thing done years ago, but screwed up on progression. Which is "the norm" for Nokia.
After I had intermediatly dropped my iPhone 3GS, (damaged but not yet dead), I really tried to get an 808; I'm a photographic printer (epson and canon large format, rather than snappy snaps). I print from all kinds of scans and files - drum scans, imacon scans, Hasselblad and phase1, via canon 5d2 through D2x and onto iPhone and the ilk.
Pixel numbers are a marketing game. Pixel quality is something else (imagine a drinking budget for four people: £100. That gets you three bottles of Veuve, a case of Sancerre from majestic, 25 average London lagers, or a Wapping ton of pseudo-cidre). We all know that the lagers are the optimal drink quality point, unless there is really nice food / company, in which case, the French white tips things.
I've run A1 (seeing as we are European, best part of a yard high), prints from lowly 4mp (monkey Pixel) cameras (such as Nikon's then flagship D2x), six foot high prints from iPhone 4gs, and larger from real serious (5 series costing) medium format kit.
These are prints that have been hung in places such as the National Portrait Gallery.
Where the (back when) ground breaking Canon 5d2 scored highly, was in its pixel count. Unfortunately many snappers used it at >3200iso, and produced noise. At 100iso, it had the potential to rival 6x9cm film (good old 35mm film being 25*36mm)
Canon and Nikon's most expensive offerings now have less resolution than the 5d2, and their top end compacts have 10-12 mp sensors. And these have dripped in resolution from the precious generatios, a N&K have realised that less can be more. I'd contend (and take the at the bar/Pepsi/ bloody huge print out challenge) that most people don't need more than 8-10 mp, ever.
Small sensors are inefficient captors of light. Those who claim that they wouldn't want less than twelve monkeys know nothing about image quality.
I have many thousands of £'s of high end digital camera kit. - I take more pics on my mini (v4s) JFS, of friends, family, and for pleasure, than I do on all the other cameras. The picture quality is good. It prints fine at poster size. I would have loved to get the 808, but I was a few weeks early.
The pixel count in my pocket, although designed @infinite loop, is definitely in the napa valley class.
But I did did did want to see what 41 monkeys could do: could they snap the equivalent of to be or...
"Those who claim that they wouldn't want less than twelve monkeys know nothing about image quality."
Not wanting to dimish your professional career, but quite frankly that last statement is stupid, and if anything only shows that knowing professional photography doesn't mean you actually understand the smartphone market.
While I agree that most small sensors are crap, as a professional I assume you know that the resolution is indeed one of the major parameters of an image. It's for sure not the only one, and using the MPx count as sole differentiator is indeed silly. But so is ignoring the sensor resolution completely. At the end of the day, image capturing is a chain that is only as good as its weakest link. I assume you know that.
And as to smartphone cameras, there is a reason why the ones that produce the best images are the PV 808 and still the (in smartphone terms pretty antique) Nokia N8, and not one of the standard 8Mpx snappers in the latest set of phones. Leaving aside the PV808 (which still is a bit of an extreme), the next best contender is a device from 2010! The reason this is because Nokia got everything right: adequate resolution (12MPx) even for larger prints, large sensor, (especially for a smart phone) good optics, and good image processing.
Additionally, resolution is also not just about large printouts, it's about capturing details. For the type of images I take, details are important. Your mileage may vary, but for me the 50% difference in resolution between a 8MPx snapper and a 12MPx snapper is clearly noticeable. So the MPx count of a sensor is not completely irrelevant as you have suggested. And no, carrying a separate camera around is simply not an option. And why should I when the technology is clearly there to have that in a smartphone?
For the new Lumias, Nokia now settled for a tiny 8MPx sensor (the same one that's found in other current smart phones), with some image stabilizing and low light gimmick in the 920. The measly sensor data alone makes it very unlikely that the images will come even close to those that a 2010 N8 can shoot. You may not care but for me that is rather poor for a new high end smart phone in the 600EUR price range. Especially when considering that this barely better than the previous Lumias and several steps back from their 2010 top end smartphone.
A bit of standard optics theory reveals that what really matters is the lens. If you have a 12MPx ccd, but the resolution is diffraction-limited, it is just willy waving. Most of those phone sensors are around the 5mm wide mark, which with 12MPx means that a pixel is about 1000nM wide. The wavelength of red light is about 600nM. You don't need to be a genius to realise that the slightest lens fault is going to result in significant image spread, bringing down the effective resolution. Anything over 8MPx on a small phone camera is pointless.
Nokia have experimented with very big sensors but of course that also implies a large lens with a long focal length, so an very thin phone is impossible. That's why their serious camera phone has a big bulge on the back. That's also why thin phones like the iPhone, many of the Androids, and the Blackberry 9900, have rather poor cameras. In optics, bigger is, design and manufacturing quality being equal, always better.
Having read many of your articles Andrew, I found myself agreeing with most of this one.
But as an aside - that "Notro" thing you do is starting to tire in the same way as the Mico$oft's of old. Give it up, please - you've already stated Microsoft are highly unlikely to move away from it any time soon - so how's about you just accept it and move on?
Appstore > 500K, Android Play > 500K, Nokia MarketPlace ~ 80K, WP marketplace ~ 100K
Is Nokia symbian apps? or just a clone of WP marketplace?
Why should anyone develop for Nokia and WP when they only hold around 2% of the market.
This is already a lost battle. RIP Nokia(^D^D^D^D^D Microsoft Phone Subsidiary)
Actually they over doubled market share in the last year with WP, and application development is accelerating. It took 14 months to get the first 50,000 apps on WP, but then only another 5 months to get to 100,000.
For the record that is quicker than Android took to get to 100,000. This shows the great success of the WP platform.
With WP8, it likely will continue to grow market share at a steep rate.
Never used win phone but it seems tile thing impressed everyone therefore there is "win 7" launcher, locker and keyboard on Android.
Guys, the design of Android from ground up guarantees that you can't race with it in UI & UX department. Its customization level is at Linux level. Even beyond that since even a 8 year old can change system default shell.
I, for one, like what I'm seeing. I'm a two year iPhone 4 user with a Macbook (so I'm a bit locked in and not really looking to upgrade) but that still strikes me as a genuinely decent phone. If I were in the market for one then it would definitely be a contender unless iPhone 5 offers something mindblowing.
It will be curious to see how the new phone OS integrates with Win8; if it does so well and Win8 actually manages to take off then they could make a very decent combo in the way that iPhone + OSX work well together. Most people aren't fully aware of that and it's definitely something that they could leverage. Android has no such integration to my knowledge.
I got my first droid retiring my 3GS (moved to iOS from WinMO), few years ago. But I think it is the most regretable of decisions I made. Because despite the fact that I always went for the higher end droid (at least of its time, e.g. Desire/SGS/SGSII/Sensation/SGSIII to name few) I never found a stable / solidly performing android phone. They all suffered from random crashes, reboots, slugghishness, hang ups (and I only install 4/5 apps I need nothing more). They all have various annoying quirks as well, e.g. SGS III doesn't want to find any WiFi network at times, folders on homescreen will randomly open at their own etc. IMHO almost all droids I owned had great hardware, but a crappy OS.
Few months ago, I got my hands on Lumia 800 and used it along side my Sensation/SGS III for 2+ months; and my views about WP totally changed. It easily outperforms all those multicore droids with its dated single core SoC, being asolutely rock solid, and very easy to use UI (unlike androids copycat of iOS).
So it is time again to jump ship, only thing to decide is should I get ATIV S or Lumia 920 (though I'm tilting toward the later due to better support / upgrade cycle of Nokia compared to Samsung).
It's brave to invest in this when Android and iOS have so much of a head start. From a developer point of view it's a small market - you are certainly going to do iOS first, then Android then 'others' - from a user point of view you have fewer apps available and probably later to get the new ones - not great either way.
WP8 could get a boost as manufacturers move away from Android. If I were an Android OEM I'd be worried about too much dominance by Samsung and Motorola being part of Google now.
Down the pub - "hi mate what's that" - oh it's my new Nokia...
<laughter>
<more laughter>
It's like trying to convince your mates after they have drunk 3-4 pints that it's actually cool to drink this no-alcohol lager-water. They have their Androids and iPhones already and really does this do much more than anything we already have - ok the wireless charging is a nice gimmick but in reality I drop my iPhone onto a dock at night - job done - so for me it's little value and to charge it at work guess I need another charge-pad or it probably charges conventionally as well...?
> Until you show them a perfect sharp and bright photo of their drunken antics in a darkened night club on your Lumia, versus motion blurred and barely visibile photos in the same conditions with their phones....
There are only two ways of getting 'bright' photos in a darkened area. One is to have a big 'window', the lens, that lets in lots of light, (which apparently the 920 does not have) the other is to let in the light for a long time, possibly seconds rather than fractions of a second. OIS will help with the latter in stabilising the image by moving the lens or the sensor to compensate for some of the movement of the device.
However, OIS will _NOT_ compensate for the movement of the subjects and their drunken antics. Anything that is not rigidly stationary for a second or two (or five) will still just be a blur.
I have taken long exposure photos in a museum and people walking through the frame didn't even show in the photo.
Of course the other way to do this is with flash or flood lights, just like the 'samples' used.
..running Belle seems to knock the socks off them there Lumia-whatsits. Responsive enough, plus - GOSH!! - I can put an extra memory card in it! Who'd have believed it in this day and age? The foreskin ^W forefront of modern technology!!
Haven't really had much play with an N9, but read reasonable reports...seems like an OK phone, the few minutes I played with it in the shop.
Dunno? Am I missing something, or should I get my ancient Trimphone out of the garage....
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