"Anon = defenders of (alleged) rapists." -- He isn't even alleged to have raped the women, Sweden has rather fucked up definitions of rape. In terms of UK law, he did not commit rape and if tried in this country; the case would be thrown out as no crime had been committed.
Anonymous is claiming to have begun shutting down UK government websites in protest of the treatment of Julian Assange. At around 8pm UT, the UK Justice Department website went down under a distributed denial of service attack. About 40 minutes later the Department of Work and Pensions website was also taken offline. Both …
Tuesday 21st August 2012 10:31 GMT Euchrid
"Sweden has rather fucked up definitions of rape. In terms of UK law, he did not commit rape and if tried in this country; the case would be thrown out as no crime had been committed."
Although Assange’s legal team has basically argued that twice in English courts, both times, the courts decided that the one of the allegations would also constitute rape under English law.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 12:39 GMT Anonymous Coward
"In terms of UK law, he did not commit rape"
Where do you people get this stuff from? It isn't like it is a secret, he went through an _extensive_ extradition process that covered every possible avenue which could have prevented his extradition to Sweden. This is all a matter of public record, and if you really care so much about it, it wouldn't have taken any time at all to check whether you were right, or just repeating lies put out by the Assange camp.
The alleged offence would be rape under English law. Perhaps you disagree with the law, but if you have sex with a sleeping/unconscious woman and she makes a complaint against you, if she can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is what happened then you will be convicted of rape.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 14:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Perhaps you disagree with the law, but if you have sex with a sleeping/unconscious woman and she makes a complaint against you, if she can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is what happened then you will be convicted of rape".
You see, that's the interesting bit. What if she doesn't (happen to) make a complaint against you? Are you still a rapist - or not? Think it through. Suppose she doesn't make a complaint until a day later? A week later? A year later? Ten years, anyone?
Under this doctrine, any ordinary husband or boyfriend is a rapist if, having gone to bed the night before with his beloved and had sex, he wakes up before her and starts to do so again before she is fully awake. After all, a crime is a crime whether it is reported and prosecuted or not.
And, by the way, how on earth can she possibly "prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is what happened", when it's her word against the man's? If they give different accounts, how is a court to decide who is telling the truth, who is lying, or simply whose memory is unreliable?
Tuesday 21st August 2012 15:26 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: @AC 12:39
Yeah, I've been thinking about this a bit since doing some reading up on it when this case first got publicity. While I've never had sex with a sleeping woman, assuming the rules on sexual assault follow the same rules I doubt there is a man alive who hasn't technically breached them.
While I initially took the same line that I think you are - that this puts men in an impossible position - I'm less sure now. As you say, whether she makes a complaint is key. So what you and I as men have to ensure, is that we don't do it to any women who will complain about it - ie only with women who you know like it - with the onus on us to be sure. Which doesn't actually seem so bad to me: early on in a relationship when you don't know her that well? Be careful and don't assume that because other women you know enjoy waking up like that, that she will too. Wait until you are intimate enough to know that your actions will be appreciated.
Put like that, it seems fairly reasonable. Simply a codifying of decent sexual behaviour, although I do appreciate that there are still grey areas.
Regarding proof. Well that's the perennial problem with sexual crimes. There are almost never witnesses, so unless the accused screws up it is extremely hard to convict since her word against his isn't enough to cross the reasonable doubt threshold.
Thursday 23rd August 2012 16:14 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re: @AC 12:39 - Tom "Abdul" Welsh
"....You see, that's the interesting bit. What if she doesn't (happen to) make a complaint against you?...." Depends on the laws of the relevant country. In the UK a crime is a crime whether it is reported or not, no-one needs to press charges. If you were to slap your wife in front of a copper the copper will arrest you and charge you with assault even if your niqahb-wearing wife protests to the copper that she deserved it (presumably for not covering her ankles in public). Of course, you would then have to slap her again for talking to a white man in public. Oh, sorry, I assumed from your posts that you were more Abdul from Birmingham rather than an actual "Tom".
".... any ordinary husband or boyfriend is a rapist...." Starting sex on a sleeping partner is not the norm. Try a little foreplay, you inconsiderate tw@, apparently it's not haram. If Mrs Abdul then dares to say no it would be rape for you to continue, you can't argue that rubbish line about "there is no rape in marriage, it is a wife's duty to satisfy her husband's demands" (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rape-impossible-in-marriage-says-muslim-cleric-2106161.html).
Monday 20th August 2012 23:53 GMT Anonymous Coward
Assange comes across as a complete selfish twat - I bet he's loving the attention (for the moment at least).
As for the yet-to-be-filed charges... I think the accusations are all timed a little too nicely. And even if he gets off in Sweden I bet the U.S. will then file for extradition anyway - thus if he ever goes to Sweden he loses one way or the other. Sweden really should rule out handing him over to the U.S. and then we can get on to see if the allegations against him prove true or false. Of course now that it's all blown up as big as it has I don't think anyone can back down much.
As for Anonymous... well, attacking UK government websites does little in my opinion and if they make too much of a nuisance of themselves then they might find that they are not all that untraceable depending on the level of scrutiny they draw upon themselves.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 08:26 GMT Phil O'Sophical
> Sweden really should rule out handing him over to the U.S.
What bit of THEY CAN'T don't you understand?
Say the Swedes promised never, ever to extradite Assange to the US. He would then be free to commit any crime against US law, even murder, knowing that's he's always got a safe bolthole in Sweden. No country could do that.
Neither Sweden nor the UK will extradite someone if they face the death penalty., That's enshrined in law, they have alreday said so on multiple occasions. They can do no more.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 02:36 GMT amanfromMars 1
New Orderly World Players in CHAOS bring Certainty with AIDefinite Vision.
Having regard for the information cocktail party supplied by the US embassy in Sex, Lies and Julian Assange here is a cheesy dip to go with the assorted crackers servered there ……. Synopsis: Added: Jun 22, 2010 1:42 pm 0001- Online Persona Management Service. 50 User Licenses, 10 Personas per user.Software will allow 10 personas per user, replete with background , history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographacilly consistent. Individual applications will enable an operator to exercise a number of different online persons from the same workstation and without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries. Personas must be able to appear to originate in nearly any part of the world and can interact through conventional online services and social media platforms. The service includes a user friendly application environment to maximize the user's situational awareness by displaying real-time local information.
I wonder if the RAF* are into Ponzi People Programs …….. which is Post Modernism's, Manchurian Candidature XSSXXXX Caricature Project …… or do successful operations in that field lead to the reality of discovering that which is actually leading events and creating the future, and thus is it only suited for master piloting by a carefully chosen few, who would actually be SMARTR Enabled and self-actuating and autonomous anonymous agents of unbelievable change?
When that is the case, and do not allow IF to enter the equation and dull your senses to render one stupefied and doubtful, can I think of no better reason than that to ensure that those high flyers are given whatever they need, for whenever you can just take it at will, who would be the prize fool to try and deny them their just desserts, and in so doing out oneself as an ignorant tool of a competition and opposition unfit for Future Greater Great Game Service.
*Or does IT provide it Unlimited Powers in AI Command and Control Wings for Traffic Flow through Virtual Flight Operations Centres in Offices of Cyber Security and Information Assurance, and in so doing create itself a Special AI Service, or is that to remain a Private Business and Pirate Sector Program against which all traditional defence services and personnel compete to fail?
And that question to …….. well, whoever is responsible for trying to ensure a Right Rollicking Royal Rolls Royce of a UKGBNI lead in Future Events Portfolios, El Reg. Can you identify a name hidden amongst all of those wannabe government puppets and muppets?
Tuesday 21st August 2012 05:08 GMT LinkOfHyrule
Tuesday 21st August 2012 07:56 GMT amanfromMars 1
Re: .... Re: New Orderly World Players in CHAOS bring Certainty with AIDefinite Vision.
Blimey, that's a big arse link you put in your comment mate! .... LinkOfHyrule Posted Tuesday 21st August 2012 05:08 GMT
Howdy, bold commenting, right royal unruly dude, :-)
The simple question asked in the paragraph following it, [that big arsed link] is the real decisive game changer, LinkOfHyrule, and its answer with any sort of a cogent parseable reply, or non answer as the case may be from supposedly intelligent and perceived of as being and conceived of to be from an intelligence community with spooky stealthy and sublime secret intelligence services, tells all that real lively and new qubit entangling intelligence communities would need to know about the chosen paths ahead to choose from for field engagements, both at home and away, in national and international and internetional fixtures ...... Intellectual Property Contests in Inter-Process Communications Fields ...... Live Operational Virtual Environment Team Terrain.
Now let everyone here tuning in to El Reg Universal BroadBandCasting be aware and advised, that it is impossible in and for any evolving smart intelligence system, let alone any SMARTR IntelAIgent System, to have the present remain similar to the past in the future. Please then now fully expect and be thoroughly prepared to accept many new things, completely different from anything you may have known or learned of or experienced before.
Thank You. Have a Nice Day, Y'all.
Please put that in the Renegade Renaissance file, Nurse, and please note for absent doctors and wannabe consultants, those meds are magic.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 05:05 GMT LinkOfHyrule
I think you are all missing the most important issue at play here............
And that is, man, that was a really shit balcony Julian gave his speech from the other day wasn't it! It was merely a jumped-up groundfloor window! The Window above it had much better iron work railings and was considerably more impressive! I am assuming the room above is part of the Columbian embassy or something? Julian, you should have sought asylum there mate, their balcony has way more gravitas!
Tuesday 21st August 2012 05:59 GMT Anonymous Coward
Tuesday 21st August 2012 07:11 GMT toadwarrior
Anonymous are a bunch of moronic children and ddosing is retarded but come on. It's no more lame than spending everyday in your dead-end job, posting on the reg about how much apple sucks and how android phone can do everything (except get you a date obviously).
What have you achieved by hating on anon? Are they going to quit? They won't even see your comments and if they do, they'll quite rightly assume it's some overweight forever alone helpdesk slave who is angry at the world.
Those kids might be misguided and their attacks are mostly shit but at least they're trying to make a difference rather shit their bitch panties about rounded corners every day.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 07:36 GMT Anonymous Coward
Do the UK and US governments have something BIG to hide...?
All the focus seems to be on Assange. The real focus should be on what demons the UK and US government are hiding behind that they are afraid will be exposed via further Wikileaks revelations.
Funny how they suddenly accuse him of rape soon after the wikileaks revelations. It is a typical tactic of character assasination except that the Public is not buying into it this time.
Anonymous is playing an important role is helping to expose Government tyranny as is Wikileaks. If you don't understand the role they are playing, then I would urge you to watch the film V for Victory.
If you still believe the Govenrment is working in your best interest then take the Blue pill and go back to sleep.
If you feel like they have been gradually turning the screws of of oppression and really taking the piss then take the red Pill.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 09:58 GMT Anonymous Coward
Tuesday 21st August 2012 10:50 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Do the UK and US governments have something BIG to hide...?
Dude(ette), you seriously need to stop watching so many movies.
Remember, your quoted sources are not in fact documentaries or 'docu-dramas', but are works of complete fiction - much like your entire post.
Thanks for the chuckles.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 08:30 GMT Anonymous Coward
In my YouTube videos, over my shoulder can be seen a mask which has done service in protests. But these latest things on-line have got me stumped and I haven't taken part in them.
If Anonymous wants to stand for freedom; then why isn't it protesting the government to surpress religious influence in society? I read of young people, stuck in religions that they don't believe in, but have no way out. The only difference is that rather than being blackmailed by scientology, they're stuck in the family home, forced to obey the familial religion and there is no respect given to them for their own views. As accounted for in the press, disobediance of the parents can, on rare occasion, even result in death. A climate of fear, in the West, is what we seem to have come down to.
If they attack the wrong sites, then they could be really hurting people who need them; job hunting, benefits, critical things that the every day person relies upon should be avoided at all costs and I believe that Anon knows enough to keep the more enthusiastic members away from these types of sites.
It is encouraging to hear of the next generation facing up to their parents views on things like arranged marriage, but there is much to be done yet in order to ensure that freedom of religion is properly enforced in this country and that ... I believe ... would be a fight worth dusting off the mask for.
Anon - for what it represented - not to actually remain anonymous. msknight
Tuesday 21st August 2012 09:00 GMT Anonymous Coward
More cash please!
DoS attacks against government websites? Fantastic news - all the more money for us in the big tax avoiding corporations that maintain and support these websites which equals less money for the little people. Good work Anon - I'll raise a glass oe two of Moet to you later, and at your expense.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 11:31 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: More cash please!
Fantastic news? No, actually. Yesterday I had to pay my car tax, I wouldn't have been able to do so were the web site not up. government web sites make society run more smoothly, Anonymous don't seem to realise that they are antagonising anyone who uses the web sits, far more than the government.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 09:45 GMT Robinson
Tuesday 21st August 2012 09:58 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: What a cock.
Given a choice, I'd take my chances in the Chilean justice system rather than the US or Swedish ones any day. Check out the stats on things like corruption, civil rights and so forth - Chile is considered way less corrupt than the US, and its justice system is better at ensuring civil rights than Sweden (which doesn't even have jury trial FFS).
Tuesday 21st August 2012 11:21 GMT Anonymous Coward
Tuesday 21st August 2012 11:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
Tuesday 21st August 2012 12:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: What a cock.
Jury trial isn't the be all and end all of justice, there are many different ways of conducting a trial. The adverserial and inquisitive systems are just two.
The Swedish judicial system has produced a number of politically biased judgements that have been the cause of scandals within Sweden and concern from organisations like Amnesty. In the specific case of Assange, the initial investigation was flawed (the investigating officer new one of the complainants personally), then the case was dropped only to be reopened under political interference that goes against Swedish law. The Swedish prosecutor has also refused to interview Assange in London - where he had travelled to with consent from the Swedish authorities - which is in violation of the procedures set out for the European Arrest Warrant. At the very least, why has the Swedish prosecutor not interviewed Assange in London when he has repeatedly stated that is something he is willing to do?
Tuesday 21st August 2012 11:27 GMT Mnot Paranoid
Here's a thought...
We should just let Assange piss off to Ecuador with impunity so he can go and fiddle with his little Wiki and listen to pan-pipe moods.
Sure, it might create a little diplomatic spat with Sweden, but what are they going to do? Close down all the IKEAs in protest. I can't imagine why any right-thinking person in this country wouldn't breathe a huge sigh of relief at seeing the back of those divorce-enablers.
All those police in Knightsbridge and go back to more important work too.
It's a Win-Win-Win.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 12:10 GMT Anonymous Coward
I have a tiny, but annoying question..
Given Assange's habit to cr*p from a great height on those who help him (for instance, the celebs he convinced to pay his bail), how long will it take Wikileaks to start leaking documents of the Ecuadorian government?
Or was that the deal with Assange? Keep one of the more well documented regimes with a "creative" approach to Human Rights off the radar? Has the Equadorian ambassador been appraised of Assange's habit of turning on anyone if he thinks it helps him?
Enquiring minds want to know. You know, in the interest of transparency and all that ..
Tuesday 21st August 2012 14:02 GMT I ain't Spartacus
Re: I have a tiny, but annoying question..
Which leads to another interesting question.
Have the embassy let him on their network? I'm not sure I'd want to give Julian Assange access to any computer I use, and remember he sleeps there overnight, so could be getting up to all sorts of stuff while the place is empty. Bad enough if he's got access to your network, worse if he's downloading those photos of the wife off the ambassadorial laptop.
Soon we really will get to learn where the ambassador keeps his Ferrero Rocher...
Tuesday 21st August 2012 14:13 GMT A 3
Anonymous are simply vigilantes. I’m sure that they think what they are doing is justified, but I’m also sure that the KKK thought stringing up black men for looking at white women was justified. Your morals, whatever they say, are subjective and if you act as judge, jury and executioner in enforcing them on others, in contravention of democratically mandated law, you are basically evil.
Anonymous might start with just taking down web sites but give them time and enough self-righteous bile, and they will be running about with ropes, masks and burning torches.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 14:17 GMT Anonymous Coward
Tuesday 21st August 2012 21:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
It seems that part of the reason
For Assange being hounded mercilessly by the 'merkins is that he has the key to an archive of nearly 700GB of data detailing everything that went on in Area 51 aka Nellis AFB from 1945 onwards.
Including:- Project Paperclip, all the reverse engineered tech recovered from the German research labs including "Die Glocke" and working but-flaky prototype of the Haunebu, to the original autopsy tapes from the Roswell crash, Tunguska, Wow! signal origin and a few other goodies to boot.
Needless to say when this little gem hits the Net there will be serious questions asked as to why the public wasn't told about this, possibly leading to the Obama administration and others being dismantled.
Tuesday 21st August 2012 22:32 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: It seems that part of the reason
Seriously? Yeah, they're hounding him mercilessly... you can barely move in Britain anymore for all the CIA/FBI/NSA agents and all their black helicopters, not to mention the American Military armoured vehicles which are lining the streets of London.
When will you conspiracy nuts get a clue? If America wanted Assange they'd already have him.
If America wanted Assange they wouldn't want him being extradited to Sweden, because it's easier for them to get him from the UK.
If America wanted Assange the Southern American continent isn't the place to try and hide from them.
Are you getting this? Can you not see the idiocy of the conspiracy theories he has you all believing? Are you really going to continue being gullible enough to believe that the best way to avoid being got by America, is to flee to countries that have extradition treaties with America? Like both the UK and Ecuador.
When are you all going to start applying your own reasoning to the things Mr Assange has actually done?
When are you all start wondering why, if he is fleeing the nasty Americans, he didn't flee to a country where it would be hard for them to get him? Somewhere close to Sweden where he originally fled from, say like Russia, or the Ukraine.
What we really want is for one or two of you to reassure us all that you're not just going around like an armed gang launching denial of service attacks against all and sundry without actually considering the reasoning and actions behind that which you're leaping to defend, and I'm afraid right now, you're not doing a very convincing job of that.
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 02:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
Assange and Anon to due prison together
They can tell "war stories" in prison on how they fought the law and the law won - like most dumbarse prisoners in denial. All of the bleeding hearts who think Assange is some hero are about to have their fantasy world shattered. Reality can be a real bitch when you live your life in denial. Ask Assange and those Anon members who have already been convicted.
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 04:06 GMT amanfromMars 1
Alien Rules of Engagement ..... Never Ever Engage as an Enemy, Friendly AI Fields*
Knock, knock, MOD/JIC/PRC/FSB/Ecuador. Is there anybody in there?…….. Do you wanna play and kick ass with these boys and their gals ……. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/08/plan-x/ ……. with those toys as floated and advised earlier as being available to real presidential material bodies** for any and all realms of universal and unilateral virtual defence, which are only ever effective whenever all lines of unstoppable attack, and systemic vulnerabilities for zeroday export and exploitation, are known indefensibles. Then are they also deliciously tempting and obscenely lucrative vectors for metadatabase mining/IntelAIgent Raw Asset Enrichment for Programming Projects in Future Events which might even be considered and classified as possibly problematic and therefore probably private and piratical pogrom information.
Or is Virtual Ignorance of Stealthy Sublime and Supreme Cyber Command and Creative Control of Computers Communicating, the chosen default Status Quo Public Service Position, which would then extraordinarily render to Private and Pirate Sectors, HyperRadioProActive IT Lead in the Live Operational Virtual Environment Field?
* All Alien Field Rules reduce and concentrate to that one Particular and Peculiar Specific Advisory APT Warning
** You do know who Renegade and Renaissance are, in the virtually real world of television and media manipulation of poorly executed and badly directly events reported as news in current affairs tales/presentations of politically perverted and subverted programs?
Answers below please ..... to show that you may know how to Google and search for information and intelligence with engines?