Windows 8 'bad' for desktop users - Gartner's one-word review Analyst firm Gartner has chosen just one word to describe Windows 8 for desktop users: “Bad”. Research Director Gunnar Berger put the imminent OS through its paces in a five-part review which found that Windows 8 is pretty good when used on touch-screen devices. Microsoft loaned Berger a Samsung slate device and he found that …
...and the ability to run several apps on the screen side by side, or overlaid. You know, as windows. Windows. Being able to have just one Metro app on the screen, with a second (or more) sidelined to a narrow preview panel, is never going to work. I've been at my desktop fro about 30 minutes this morning and I currently have seven apps on screen. How's that gonna work in Metro?
As others have said, Microsoft, do what you like on the tablets but leave our desktops alone!
Massively agree.
I tried Win8 preview and really didn't care about Metro except that it replaces the quick-to-use orb. While I might eventually get used to the Metro way of doing everything, why do I want to see a bunch of widgets every time I want to run an application?
@AC: "full" Win8 is just Win7 with Metro; I think you're talking about Win8 RT (or Windows on ARM), which only runs Metro applications.
Weird, I only ever see all my applications when I want to run an application and click the Start/Metro button (you know, the one that appears when I move my mouse to where Start 'used to be' (read: still is). Oh, and my most used Internet Favourites (which I pinned to start). Oh, and my most used documents (which I pinned to start)... Have you not figured out how to move/remove the 'Apps' yet and pin things to Start?
The thing that annoys me the most is that if you mouse right into the bottom left where the start button should be you can get to the metro menu anyway, why remove an easy to use button and replace it with the same, (Nearly the same with the whole metro screen instead of start menu), functionality but without showing users it's there unless they accidentally mouse into that corner and see the metro preview image?
...........mouse movement only "right-click" when you reach bottom left. Yes, that's right - you'll see an entirely different menu that has absolutely nothing to do with the metro start menu. A whole list of facilities that bear an amazing resemblance to - well I'll leave you to find out for yourself.
"The "wave the mouse in the corner" trick is going to be the operating system's downfall."
I literally just drag the mouse to the farthest it will go in the bottom left and that triggers the Metro screen. There's no aiming required at all. Possibly you are using an older preview version?
That very possible. The response to mouse and touch gestures and the nature of those gestures was significantly changed/improved between the "Build" version and the "Customer Preview". The degree of predictability and precision in the CP version is a different ball game entirely in comparison to the pre-beta.
"I literally just drag the mouse to the farthest it will go in the bottom left and that puts it on my 2nd monitor"
Well okay, if the mouse is on my second monitor, I have to actually pause it in the area so in that specific case it is no better than Windows 7, I will grant you. But I'm in the habit of using the Windows Key so I haven't really noticed.
Actually, it is better than Windows 7 because the context area is on both monitors. In my Win7 version, I have my primary screen on the right so I have to move the mouse all the way over to the second monitor (I have two 24" ones) to click on the start menu. On Win8, every monitor has the menu area on it. So it's actually less mouse travelling on average.
So the correct solution is as implemented in 3rd party utilities like Actual Multiple Monitors or Ultramon where you get a task bar and Start button on every monitor rather than having to hover over specific pixels in either corner. The main problem. This would have been much more sensible that the context breaking major distraction that is Metro on the desktop.
Gartner has a great knack of stating the F****ing obvious (as well as another one for getting everything totally wrong, I'll let google be your friend here)
My (non-IT) boss used to pay a fortune for these to look smart in meetings I wish I'd kept a couple of the ones from a few years ago there were some real crackers in there.
True, another point about Gartner is that they, like most analysts, will not come out with a clear opinion on anything because, like every analyst group, their major funding source are the IT vendors themselves. They do not want to upset any of their major customers. It is the same conflict of interest as the securities rating agencies. They are dependent upon the firms they are supposed to be impartially analyzing... which makes it all the more interesting that they are actually coming down hard on Windows 8.
It's a funny old world..
For years Gartner was predicting the early demise of the O/S I was using, yet it was still going strong a decade later.
We got used to ignoring Gartner but when they come up with something we agree with, we suddenly forget all our old prejudices :-D
Win7 (and WinXP) will still be running fine on anything you can buy in ten years time. (The overheads of running in a VM are probably even now only equivalent to a month or two of Moore's Law. I can't see them getting larger in the future.) The only reason to move away from Windows is the same as the only reason to stick with it: are the apps you want to run available on a given platform?
Puts fingers in ears
Closes eyes
and shouts
"La-La-la-la-la. I can't hear you"
Then he kicks a chair through the window of his office.
It still won't make one iota of difference. They are already totally indoctrinated with the 'Touch only' mantra to care.
For once and even though the report says nothing new to the 'El Reg' crowd this report will be used by a huge number of IT bosses the world over to stop upgrades to this waste of space OS.
The problem that Microsoft faces is that they have been told that the desktop PC market will decline and mobile devices will increase. MS have almost no presence in the tablet of phone market. If they do nothing other than what they have been doing they will have reducing revenues.
In order to have increasing revenue in the future is to be successful in tablets, mobile phone and in selling software through an app store. They also need to take revenue from retail sales through their own stores and from OEMs by building their own machines. In other words become more like Apple.
Given that their WP7 has been rejected they conclude that this is because of unfamiliarity. The solution is to make it "the most familiar UI" and then users will _demand_ that UI on their tablets and phones. They will then have Microsoft products for desktop, phone, mobile device (Surface), games console and entertainment centre all working together and the world will be a better place (and MS much richer).
The first step is where users learn to love Metro, everything else then follows. If this step fails then the whole strategy falls down. So, no, they won't make Metro optional. They will make it more difficult for people to load a different OS (secure boot) so users can't escape from Metro. They will probably have sufficient file incompatibilities in Office 2013 to force other users to upgrade and will make Windows 8/Metro a requirement as soon as possible.
"They will make it more difficult for people to load a different OS (secure boot) so users can't escape from Metro"
It's actually a requirement by Microsoft for an x86 device to get the Approved sticker, that the user be able to disable secure boot.
"They will probably have sufficient file incompatibilities in Office 2013 to force other users to upgrade"
I've been using Office 2013 beta and files created with it by default have opened fine in Office 2010 so far. I've not noticed any change. You need to back accusations such as this up, otherwise you're just scare-mongering.
Although that may be your aim as you have a history of posts like this. I recall you stated previously how the Surface would have heating problems. When I pointed out it actually had quite a neat all around vent so that it had airflow however you held it, you excitedly responded with a complaint that the Surface wouldn't be waterproof! Well, with a determination to find fault like that, I'm inclined to ask you to provide evidence of any accusations you make from here on.
Let me fix that for you:
MS have concluded the solution is to make it "the most familiar UI"
The real solution is to write a fracking mobile OS that works independently of the OS you know so well. Putting a new GUI on a polished turd isn't going to make the turd any more palatable.
More likely a Windows 8 Desktop Edition (aka 8.5), or a Windows 9 will roll around tout de suite. Windows 7 turned up after Vista in about 18 months. I wouldn't be surprised if 6-12 months after Windows 8 debuts that a partial fix appears with another release soon after.
I'll take that bet as I don't think it will.
9 on the other hand........
It all depends on how well 8 goes with the public. If there is the mass rush to touch interfaces that MS are hoping for, then they'll probably stick to their guns and push same to the corporates. If touchy , feely desktops don't take off, 9 will get the schizophrenic makeover.
The article discusses both good and bad points about Windows8. He is not saying the W8 is bad, only that it is bad on the desktop.
I am not advocating W8 here but the article is actually a clear resume of what W8 is and what it is not.
Kudos to the writer even though El Reg commentards have stated all of this for several months now.
I don't think that, under the hood at least, Windows 8 is bad. Admittedly, I haven't tried it on a lot of machines, but even in beta, it seems quite quick and driver support seems good.
The problem is Metro.
Metro is fine as a touch screen OS. Although I'd argue in terms of interface, it's still a generation behind Android or iOS. OK, it has "Live Tiles", which may prove to be handy (although I don't see how they'd be "that" much more useful than the lock screen indicators or notifications offered by both Android and iOS, or indeed, the notifications offered by Windows Mobile), but it lacks any form of organisational tools (such as folders).
This is bad enough on a mobile, where you might have a few apps and documents you are working on, but when you scale it up to a desktop where you might have a few suites that could contain dozens of icons (E.G. Office, or Visual Studio to name but two), and where previous versions of the OS dating back 20 years have had folders of some form or another, then it's a confusing step backward.
I think the problem is that Microsoft have seen how tablets running iOS and Android have eaten in to their market share, and seen how their previous attempts at tablets have failed and they are panicking.
They thought that a unified user interface would help them sell tablets. It didn't. Part of the reason their tablets failed last time is that the Windows interface doesn't scale down well.
The problem is now that they are looking at things from the other end of the scale. They think a tablet interface will scale up to a full desktop. It doesn't.
Essentially Microsoft need to stop with this idea of one size fits all for UIs.. It doesn't work. If it did, Apple would have replaced Finder (OSx's default interface) with iOS's. They didn't. They offer Launchpad (which is iOS like) as an app, but it runs on top of Finder, it does not replace it.
In short, they should offer Metro as an option, it should not be the only option, or the default one.
Well, that's fine, its his opinion
but this comment is a bit dim
" I can’t tell you the last time I had to ask someone how to do something in a client OS.”"
It is a new OS, that by its very nature, for better or worse, is different, to assume that you should know everything about everything is somewhat arrogant, asking for help is not a bad thing, its how we all learn.
All it does is point out that the OS has a different way of doing something and that its not so obvious, once you know it though it because as simple as it always did so....
Im not saying that its all good, that would be stupid on this website as id be downvoted to oblivion, but one of his comments IS stupid no matter how you look at it.
No it should be pretty obvious when you are trying to do basics. I've had a look at win8 on a vm. So far with metro i've had to google for update and restart, make a website a favourite and a lot more of the mouse clicking waving around nonsense. The guy has a point. If you want folks to use it then dont turn your OS into a guessing game. Even switching from macos9 to osx wasnt this much of a pain. If the techies are struggling to work out how to use it then what chance does your average office worker actually have. Microsoft have some good ideas but the good stuff is being smothered by this obsession with metro.
I like the word 'obsession', because it is too true. Microsoft is absolutely besotted with Metro.
Watch and laugh/weep:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc7HPmPQV9E
In my opinion, other software vendors should say 'screw you' to Microsoft and not code a Metro version of their software. For example, Firefox, already has a desktop version and a mobile version for Android.
The very fact that there are two versions of IE10 on Windows 8 (desktop version and Metro version) is very telling of this schizophrenic mess. Other software vendors should stay away.
No, that's simply wrong, it is easy to do it, you just need to know about the charms. I hate to fire off the obligatory car reference but several fit, one car radio is the same as another right? yes but how many times have even professionals had to pull out a manual, according to you its not needed at all, because it MUST be so simple and similar to others. You learn to drive an automatic, a manual is essentially the same, but if your shoved in to it without any instruction you will have issues, those bloody cars that keep turning off when you stop, you can drive as a profession and not know how to deal with it, what do you do, sit in the car twiddling your thumbs or ask for help? whether or not you ask for help is simply down to how stubborn and arrogant you are
The user who asks for help first and be open to change will be the user who can adapt and progress in life with ease, there is absolutely no harm or shame in asking for help, but I guess all you down votes are too clever for that.
Its funny, the people I know who know the most will admit to knowing bugger all, those that think they know it all tend to know the least
Microsoft loaned Berger a Samsung slate device and he found that Windows 8 gets around some of the problems he's seen trying to get enterprise apps running on a tablet.
I'm going to say the number of Metro interface enterprise apps for them to test range between 0 and 2, so they must be using standard enterprise software on Windows 8 desktop, which begs the question why bother with Windows 8 when these touch screen devices are going to be using the Desktop 90% of the time?
I tried both previews for around a month each when they came out on a spare laptop and it was simply painful. The switching between the Desktop and Metro interface was just rubbish and could be massively improved. Unfortunately judging by details of the latest builds it hasn't been. As long as it continues to feel like two different computers fighting for the monitor the longer it'll stay off any of my machines
I think that's where his "replacing my laptop and iPad" comment came in: Win8 desktop for enterprise (laptop) usage and Metro for lighter iPad-esque usage.
I've only played with Win8 on a desktop, but I could see how Metro would work well for a touch-based interface.
I'll stick with my Transformer and ThinkPad, though. I don't want to mix personal and business usages and accounts.
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