back to article UK, US ink boffinry pact on laser fusion 'star power'

Using nuclear fusion – star energy – to power the world's dishwashers, TVs and servers has long been a twinkling in the misty eyes of physicists, but it inched closer to reality this week as the American National Ignition Facility (strap line: "Bringing Star Power To Earth") struck a deal with the UK company AWE and Oxford-based …

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    1. Geoffrey Swenson

      Admiral Nimitz himself, as a big proponent of nuclear powered ships, was much less enamored of commercial nuclear power. He felt that without military discipline to ensure that guidelines were followed, accidents were likely.

      I don't agree that nuclear fission is safe. We have already had too many incidents, way too many permanently despoiled areas like Hanford and other poorly run nuclear production facilities in other US States, an entire river system in Siberia that is so radioactive that a five minute exposure on its banks would be fatal. And then there is Chernobyl and now Fukushima, both of which involved a huge amount of human error and cost-cutting decisions that created the conditions for the disasters. There is no reason anymore to believe that the same stupidity won't ever happen anywhere else, or that some natural or human-caused disaster would be made so much worse by the failure of nuclear containment.

      There are much safer, less expensive ways to produce power, we shouldn't be playing with the nuclear genie. It really isn't worth the risk.

      BTW, I don't mind at all that we do research on fusion power, but it is almost completely unrealistic to expect it to work, or to even believe that it would be all that safe. Fusion requires extreme conditions, and plenty of hot particles are produced that would make the walls of the reactor extremely radioactive.

      My last point is to mention that the reason why most fission fuel is not reprocessed is that it is very difficult to do and hazardous in the extreme. Just look at the mess around Hanford Washington where fuel was processed for bombs, for just one example of how dirty and dangerous this is. It is cheaper and easier to start out with raw uranium.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        "Admiral Nimitz himself"

        That was Rickover, actually.

        1. Geoffrey Swenson

          Yes, you're right. I was remembering this from a long-ago conversation with my college roommate, who had just read or watched an interview with Admiral Rickover.

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Happy

      @Brandon2

      "he US does not re-process spent fission fuel, currently. About 90% of our spent fission fuel can be reprocessed and used in reactors for another 50+ years. Instead, we bury it if lead / concrete containers somewhere in Colorado"

      It's done to stop harvesting Plutonium and *potentially* creating a bigger supply of bomb material. I think it's also more hassle for the operators to use it rather than enriched uranium.

      "How many "chernobyls" have we had in the open ocean?"

      you might like to look up USS "Thresher". But while the pressure hull failed the reactor (apparently) I'm not sure the Russians were so lucky.

      "Nimitz class carriers have 2 reactors on them... "

      You might like to check that. I was quite surprised by the answer.

      Part of the problem is the *perception* of risk. Both the Shuttle and nuclear reactors have (generally) good safety records, but when they *do* fail they fail *badly*.

      Investors remember 3 mile Island turning a $1bn asset into a $2Bn clean up operation.

      And what kind of *business* is "commercially viable" as long as the host countries *government* picks up the de-commissioning bill?

      On that basis let the government run the reactors as a national resource to cover costs *including* de-commissioning and let the power companies find some other way to make money.

      Note I'm not against nuclear power and I think the molten salt design pioneered at ORNL for the nuclear bomber (although remaining a stupid idea for a weapon system) programme may turn out to be the *best* investment in nuclear technology *ever* made for peaceful uses.

      so of course there is *no* economic incentive for reactor building companies to develop it (they make their money from complex non interchangeable fuel element designs) or power companies to buy it (no commercially available design, and the cost structure might be a bit too *transparent* and people might feel they had been, how should I put this, shafted).

  1. Derk
    Meh

    No point really

    By the time they find that they can or cannot do it, the world will be either vastly over populated, and starving or burnt to crisp after a man with funny head gear deicides it is OK to Nuke his neighbour.

    Thorium reactors seem a good idea. I hear the Chinese are trying for one. Either way, you'll still pay extortionate bills for energy. A lot of people like being rich. Besides I remember when oil was discovered in the North Sea, it was going to be cheap petrol for all in the UK. Well you saw how that turned out. Just peachy......for some, but not for the motorist.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One can only hope...

    I would like to see a workable fusion power plant achieved in my lifetime... Probably won't happen though. In the meantime, if we must use nuclear power, Thorium reactors look like the way to go.

  3. david 63

    No worries...

    ...Rossi's near room temperature fusion will give us more electricity than we can possibly use...only one month until it comes on stream in Greece...

    ...yeah right.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Never heard of it before

      But Rossi, according to the internet fount of all accurate and verified not made up knowledge Wikipedia, has fallen out over money with the company who were going to put his 1MW plant online in Greece so the unit is now going to be built in the US instead. I wonder who he'll fall out with next?

  4. Geoffrey Swenson

    Thorium is just the latest of many excuses for playing with the nuclear genie, and chances are it won't be much better than where we've already been. Before that it was latest jumbo-sized reactor design which were supposed to be safer and more economical, when actually built somewhere in Scandinavia, had extreme many X cost overruns and safety issues that were revealed as the plant was being built. After that debacle the debate has now moved to thorium as the next great nuclear technology, and here we go again.

    Even though the thorium fuel is much cheaper and less radioactive, it still requires costly and dangerous fuel reprocessing, still produces hazardous radioactive nucleotides that could be diverted for terrorism.

    There is abundant sun and wind power many times what we need to power this planet. We should be researching better means to store power for future use, rather than wasting our time and money on inherently dangerous technologies. It is not like this is a unsolvable problem, as nature already did it several million years ago.

    I recently read an article about a company that is proposing portable, low-cost ammonia generation plants as a way to convert electrical energy into concentrated no-carbon fuel for under $2 a US gallon at current energy prices. This can be burned in modified gasoline engines and probably would work in a fuel cell. This makes far more sense than hydrogen because the ammonia can be stored in a pressured tank.

    1. itzman
      Linux

      Another dear sweet caveman

      Who thinks 'renewable' energy isn't nuclear..

      Who thinks that 'nuclear energy' is a dangerous man made thing.

      Who doesn't realise that the whole universe is a nuclear reactor we are living inside that floods us with 1000 times more radioactivity than the nuclear industry ever did.

      BAN THE SUN! BAN SUPERNOVAE!

      1. Geoffrey Swenson

        Of course the Sun is a fusion furnace, but it is safely located in a huge, distant vacuum / gravity well.

        Your argument is oh so funny, but irrelevant. It hardly changes the fact that when nuclear materials escape confinement, the results can be deadly, and cleanup requires waiting several thousand years for the stuff to decay.

        We can't have an energy industry that in rare accidents has such a overwhelming result.

        It also doesn't make sense given that nuclear makes financial sense only if governments step in and cover the uninsurable extreme risks, and numerous other subsidies, such as decomissioning cleanup. The point of these subsidies was originally to jump start a future of abundant, cheap energy, but that really hasn't happened.

  5. DF118
    Happy

    I know how this goes

    El Reg "science" article comments thread. Humourless gits up the top. Cool people down here at the bottom.

  6. ThinkNauts
    Meh

    We saw this movie

    Saw this in Spider man 2. Did not work out so well.

    ThinkNauts . com

  7. Bernard M. Orwell
    Stop

    wait...

    "keeping the UK at the forefront of international science and tackling some of the most significant challenges facing society such as meeting our future energy needs..."

    Energy needs! Good!

    "...monitoring and understanding climate change..."

    That'll be useful for the forthcoming debates and actions, surely? Nice.

    "...and global security."

    Wait.. ..What? How?

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Happy

      @Berneard M. Orwell

      "...and global security."

      Wait.. ..What? How?

      Because lots or wars are caused by either people who want more land/food/water/energy or people whose supply is running out (or don't have any) wanting more.

      66 million people deprived of their 24/7 access to Big Brother, lighting after sun down and heating as Dobby is feeling a bit miffed with whoever's in charge that year.

      It *will* get ugly.

  8. Saigua
    Go

    Awesome editorship; NIF = Laser Company :: PRL = small press ?

    Yeah, you got your Uniphase, your Raytheon, this thing I like to pop balloons with from eBay...lots of Helium-4 balloons around since we got a day care...small ones...but NIF are proud of our own lineup too. Our customers, users, are working on problems under 10^-33 cc, and we're proud that we have electromagnetic devices capable of safely bossing neutrons around in those spaces.

    All right! You UK boffins get busy creating my self-contained PC power, HVAC and mulching unit so I can license/import something from the East and sort of balance out my trade imbalances.

    Yes! Mulching!

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