Sunspot decline could mean decades of cold UK winters British scientists have produced a new study suggesting that the Sun is coming to the end of a "grand solar maximum" – a long period of intense activity in the Sun – meaning that we in Blighty could be set for a long period of much colder winters, similar to those seen during the "little ice age" of the 17th and 18th centuries …
It's not the colder winters that are the problem. Lots of places have far colder winters than Britain. The problem is the reduction in the length of the growing season. A reduction in this leads to less food coming out of the land. In the Maunder Minimum, this led to starvation and an economic downturn.
...the Maunder Minimum was around the turn of the 18th century, yes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they didn't have the global food-shipping industry and transport infrastructure that we have today.
Wouldn't the same phenomenon in Britain today simply cause a temporary rise in food prices?
Being a "very" amateur solar observer I would like to point out that the sunspot activity has increased now this year so if there is a Maunder Minimum it may have passed, but the colder winters have corresponded exactly to the sun state.
It is a proven fact that when the sun is not very active the solar winds from coronal holes, CME's etc affect the outer layers of the earths atmosphere and magnetic fields which do in turn affect temperature.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1998/ast08dec98_1/
I could cite more evidence but I do not want to make this post to big.
Now if you go back in history taking the solar cycle into account and align it to the recorded climate in my opinion you cannot refuse that there is no correlation between the two.
Please spend 5 mins to check the cycle out and form your own opinions.
Just my 2p worth.
Not very often I post a thread, I normally just snipe :-)
Boffin? Nah, I wish.
that "global warming / global cooling / climate change" is NOT actually the real issue?
The real, serious, and tangentially deadly effect is that global weather stands a good chance of becoming MORE chaotic than it already is.
The global agricultural industry relies on mostly accurate long-range weather forecasting; if that becomes more difficult to achieve, then agriculture becomes a riskier business. Thus; less investment, lower yields; oh dear the neighbouring country has just invaded us because "we get all their rain".
Higher highs, lower lows, rain falling where it shouldn't: what happens when the Indian monsoon falls out to sea instead of inland? Oh bugger, a nuclear armed country of 1.2 billion people suddenly goes unstable.. and hungry.
It's not global warming, global cooling or climate change that worries me, it's human adaptability to unpredictable change. History has shown us that by and large 'human adaptability' is usually military in nature and involves a lot of people having their rights revoked. That's K-I-L-L-E-D 'revoked'.
Are you thinking of India or China?
China's rapid economic growth and its huge external investment (and the fact that it has millenia of experience of being run by hard-arsed autocrats) probably insulates it to a fair degree from global instability caused by climate change.
I'd be more worried about India and its neighbours.
And without wishing to get into a semantic argument, climate change _is_ the issue because what most people mean by climate change is not simple warming or cooling but just "a change to the climate that makes things less safe and comfortable for the human population".
.....Ah! - they are the ones who GET PAID for talking C**P.
We live a mere 93million miles from a raging nuclear furnace.
Because of the Earth's tilt, the temperature from Summer to Winter can vary by a large amount 20degrees or more, so does it not make sense that variations in the SUN's activity MIGHT just cause the variations in Earth's temperature?
On no - of course - I don't get PAID to know what I am talking about.
It's all about taxing the public (aka A SCAM!!!!!)
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change#Scientific_consensus"
Hate to tell you but the 'Consesus' is a fallacy.
Just about anyone who spoke out against or even simply questioned the Sanctification of the doctrine, either lost their job (if lucky) or got not only demonised but ridiculed. Yeah sounds like a good way of getting 'consesus' to me.
"Feel free to believe that there is some global trillion-dollar conspiracy that has somehow managed to corrupt the work of hundreds of scientific institutions and publications over the course of the last forty years. It has as much credibility as a Bush-done-9/11 conspiracy theory."
Yeah nice argument there tosspot look at this and then believe, oh no dont question, dont look at it and say well this is inconclusive this can be taken either way and this out right says the opposite, its enough that its there now believe!!. and if you dont look flying sauces and little green men. heres a tin-foil hat. how dare you question the religon [insert other pathtic insult]
"Is it any wonder there are concerns about our education system if people manage to survive to adulthood while believing that this is why we have summer and winter."
..Right!?...So!... We dont get Summer / Winter due to our position on the Earth.. okay.. I'm sat down.. what man made magic spell is causing us to have seasons then?
Maybe its some fat American who keeps jogging then stopping and all the excess heat is causing the planet to get warm.. throw us a bone we obvisouly need educating here..
"we obvisouly need educating here.."
That's the first semi-sensible thing you've said.
The seasons are caused by the axial tilt of the earth: the angle between the plane of our annual orbit around the sun and the axis of our daily rotation of the planet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasons#Causes_and_effects
"insert other pathtic insult"
You entered the conversation by calling climate scientists fascists, responded to polite corrections by calling people retards and your latest post calls me a tosspot. You're not very good at the internet. Perhaps you should go outside and play.
Well done.. well done for just repeating what I've already been saying.. bravo!
"The seasons are caused by the axial tilt of the earth: the angle between the plane of our annual orbit around the sun and the axis of our daily rotation of the planet."
"while we're spinning on this little rock and the rocking tilt in which it spins making parts of the planet point a few degrees closer or way from the sun doesnt do anything."
And at what point did I call the "Climate Scientists" fascists.. sounds like your reading what you want to read, Not what I'm actually writing.
I refered to the "Eco-fascists" which is a correct and apt description, zealot would also be another label.
I would suggest reading what they are putting into writing (thats the policy makers (who arent necessarily politicians, rather more political elites who use they money and power to not only twist opinion but help put 'their' policies in place) and well as what drops out of their mouths during interviews. Because if they did care about true green policies, then regulation on large industries would be what they should be purposing. Not taxation on small bussinesses and the individual. And no amount of money should allow anyone to pollute more than anyone else.
I may not believe in "man-made" climate change, but I do believe in climate change, and the best way to safe guard against this. Because the main difference between "man-made" and natural. Is they make you believe it can be solved (through laughable projects) - it cant. Its a natural product of the Earths present around our sun - get used to it.
So it would be more worth while to clean our industries, so they dont pollute our lands and water.
While sorting out other regions of the planet like Africa so they can grow and provide food incase there ever is a shortage. And things like money shouldnt be applied to nations that are starving, there is no reason why any person on this planet should go hungary, and yet through the fraud (and yes that is not only apt but correct) that is our monetary system, millions die.
So you go ahead and support "political bodies" such as the IPCC, just dont be suprised if nothing gets done.
What you actually said was:
"when we're [] closer to the sun its warmer and when we're futher away its cold... surely not that hard of a concept to grasp!?"
This is complete nonsense. The earth has a radius of about 6 million metres and an axial tilt of about 23 degrees. We are on average about 150 billion metres away from the sun and our distance varies by about 5 billion metres over the course of a year. Radiation in a vacuum follows an inverse square law.
How can you expect to be taken seriously on the complicated subject of climate change when you don't even understand basic physics or the very simple mechanism behind the seasons?
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