back to article Brexit: UK will be disconnected from EU databases after 2020

The UK will be locked out of European Union databases once the Brexit transition period ends – but the UK is hoping a data adequacy decision will be adopted by the end of 2020. The Withdrawal Agreement (PDF), published late last night and testing printers across the nation this morning, runs to almost 600 pages and has led to …

  1. John 110
    Unhappy

    Is it just me or...

    ...is it like watching one of those slo-motion crashes beloved of Mythbusters fans everywhere...

  2. Lee D Silver badge

    Re: Is it just me or...

    It's closer to that "time is slowing" sensation you get when you're the one hurtling towards the wall yourself, though.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Is it just me or...

    ...is it like watching one of those slo-motion crashes beloved of Mythbusters fans everywhere...

    Ah yes: "The EU is the solution to all of Europe's problems"

    BUSTED!

  4. Michael Habel Silver badge

    Re: Is it just me or...

    So did your Great, Great (and now possibly, Great), Grandfather sacrifice his life for this? How about your Great, Grandfather some Twenty-ich Years latter?

    But, here you lot are cheating for what is by all rights the incidus birth of the Germanic Fourth Reich. Compleat with its own SS (cough) EU Army (cough). Yeah may sold you lot up the Thames for 30 pieces of Ag? I think you lot sold yourselves out long ago.

    But, the MSM have so misused the Term Nazi, referring to President Trump. That they have since lost all sight as to who the real NAZIs are (usually to be found in Bruxelles), but also to be found in such Cosmopolitan Cities such as, Paris, and of course what good Nazi story doesn't include Berlin?

  5. BigSLitleP

    Re: Is it just me or...

    Trump supports white supremacists and describes them as "good people". Please provide evidence of the same in the countries you listed.

    Also, my grandad survived WW2 after being a tank commander. He backed the EU, as did Winston Churchill, they guy that helped came up with the idea and the European Court of Justice.

    The question becomes: who should i listen to? A war hero and the greatest brit that ever lived or some numpty on a forum shouting "Trump's a nice guy!"?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Is it just me or...

    It was the British army taking pot shots at my grandfather around a century ago, and the Black and Tans, ordered in by the famous English hero, Churchill. I've worked in Germany and I found the people friendly and welcoming to foreigners. I've also worked in England.

  7. Glen 1 Bronze badge

    Re: Is it just me or...

    "So did your Great, Great (and now possibly, Great), Grandfather sacrifice his life for this? How about your Great, Grandfather some Twenty-ich Years latter?"

    The first one was for the willy waving of our political masters. (I learnt about "The great lie" at school, did you?)

    We were so desperate to avoid a second as a result we sent Chamberlain the appeaser for "peace in our time". When that didn't work we (eventually, and with the help of the French, the Poles, the Americans and Canadians and many others) did what was necessary.

    Afterwards Churchill spoke of a United States of Europe, he is even named as one off founding forces of the EU.

    My Great (Whatever) sacrificed themselves because they were ordered to. At least the second time round the man ordering them to their deaths had a sense of the future. I'm not blind to his faults (1M dead in India), but I will quote him directly:

    "We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living. The process is simple.All that is needed is the resolve of hundreds of millions of men and women to do right instead of wrong, and gain as their reward, blessing instead of cursing."

    Which makes it fun to listen to xenophobes give speeches selectively invoking Churchill.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It will be good for some.

    Those living in the woods around Calais & Dunkerque will be quickly shown the (train) door to Blighty once wer're out. Hopefully they will fair better here.

  9. 0laf Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    I think the most honest statement I saw from an elderly Brexit supporter was (I paraphrase), "I don't care if it fucks up the country I want the UK to leave Europe".

    The only think I predict now is utter fucking chaos as the SNP now wades in. The only reason the SNP lost the indy vote was based on the prospect of an indy scotland being thrown out the EU and having to rejoin. What we got by staying was a ticket out of the EU vote through mostly by the nearly dead.

    If the SNP run another indy vote they'll win on the ticket of Scotland being able to rejoin the EU.

    Politicians, a plague on all your houses.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If the SNP run another indy vote they'll win on the ticket of Scotland being able to rejoin the EU.

    You think? Sturgeon's already having a hard time trying to explain why Scotland breaking away from the greater UK is good, yet being a smaller part of of an even larger and more controlling polity is desirable. It all comes down to who they'll get most money from, but she probably doesn't want to admit that.

    Then imagine the border issues that will throw up, especially since that border hasn't been real for centuries. They'll spent 50 years arguing about where it should be drawn.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "If the SNP run another indy vote they'll win on the ticket of Scotland being able to rejoin the EU."

    ... except there is a not insignificant portion of Scottish Independece supporters who don't see an "independent" Scotland rejoining the EU as actually gaining independence.

  12. WolfFan Silver badge

    Then imagine the border issues that will throw up, especially since that border hasn't been real for centuries.

    I'll simplify things. The Antonine Wall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonine_Wall sounds like a good starting point.

    [exists, pursued by a large hairy individual wearing a skirt and carrying a claidheamh-mòr. http://reelgirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/King-Fergus-Brave.jpg]

  13. Pseu Donyme

    re: Scotland

    It seems that an alternative to Brexit would have been England and Wales leaving the UK while Scotland and NI would have remained thereby remaining in the EU as well (I seem to recall this was what the voters in the respective parts wanted). Actually, I think there would have been precedent for an even better trick: if memory serves Greenland left the EU while remaining a part of Denmark.

  14. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    Unhappy

    I'm curious about the similarity between the names of the Internet Research Agency and the European Research Group ... coincidence? I guess it could be a coincidence ... but seriously, their aims appear aligned.

  15. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Re: re: Scotland

    It seems that an alternative to Brexit would have been England and Wales leaving the UK while Scotland and NI

    @ Pseu Donyme

    You forget just who is propping up the Tory minority government....

  16. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Re: re: Scotland

    Scotland and NI would have remained thereby remaining in the EU as well (I seem to recall this was what the voters in the respective parts wanted).

    Except that the EU made it very clear that it wasn't going to be allowed. The UK is the EU member, if Scotland and/or NI were to secede from the UK they could apply to join the EU as independent nations. It would not matter if the UK were still an EU member at the time of secession or not, there would be no automatic 'pass' to membership. They would be required to accept the Euro (after demonstrating that their independent economies were up to it), join Schengen, abandon all opt-outs & rebates. It's a complete non-starter.

  17. Lars Silver badge
    Happy

    Re: re: Scotland

    "if memory serves Greenland left the EU while remaining a part of Denmark.".

    To make any sense of that one sentence a few more are needed.

    "Greenland, the world's largest island, is about 79% ice-capped. Vikings reached the island in the 10th century from Iceland; Danish colonization began in the 18th century, and Greenland became an integral part of the Danish Realm in 1953. It joined the European Community (now the EU) with Denmark in 1973 but withdrew in 1985 over a dispute centered on stringent fishing quotas. Greenland remains a member of the Overseas Countries and Territories Association of the EU. Greenland was granted self-government in 1979 by the Danish parliament; the law went into effect the following year. Greenland voted in favor of increased self-rule in November 2008 and acquired greater responsibility for internal affairs when the Act on Greenland Self-Government was signed into law in June 2009. Denmark, however, continues to exercise control over several policy areas on behalf of Greenland, including foreign affairs, security, and financial policy in consultation with Greenland's Self-Rule Government".

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gl.html

    PS. 91% of export is fish.

  18. mosw

    Re: re: Scotland

    >if memory serves Greenland left the EU while remaining a part of Denmark.

    > ...

    >PS. 91% of export is fish.

    So I guess it was "goodbye and thanks for all the fish"?

  19. Ken 16 Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Re: re: Scotland

    Yes, England and Wales could join the Channel Islands, Mann and various British Overseas Territories outside the EU while leaving the UK inside.

    @Pseu Donyme

  20. Roland6 Silver badge
    Pint

    Re: re: Scotland

    >while leaving the UK inside.

    Took a moment to grasp. Like the Scottish devolution reframing...

  21. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Ah, the UK gov

    Still pretending they can move out but keep the keys.

    I've stocked up on popcorn, I'm ready for the show.

  22. Rich 11 Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    I've stocked up on whisky and spam and pot noodles.

    Thinking about that list, I'd better get a big stash of Vitamin C supplements too.

  23. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    There was a brilliant quote from someone in Europe, forgot who.

    Divorce means divorce. You split the belongings the children suffer, but everyone at some point gets on with it. What the British want is not a divorce, they want to be allowed to still sleep in the house, use the car and even f*ck their ex-spouse on Tuesdays and Thursdays regardless of do they want it or not.

  24. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    Still pretending they can move out but keep the keys.

    Actually given the current "Brexit means Remain" agreement that May wants us to sign up to, it's more like we hand over the keys but want to keep sleeping in the hallway.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    It seem more like "hand over the keys, you'll sleep in the garage and you can't but a new house until we say you can ... and in the meatime you need to pay your part of the bills"

  26. The Nazz Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    Gary Desmond : The Divorce Song, parody of Tammy Wynette

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5GEJxJ06P4

    "we'll split the house, i'll have the in, you can have the f*****g outside"

  27. Rich 11 Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    Actually given the current "Brexit means Remain" agreement that May wants us to sign up to, it's more like we hand over the keys but want to keep sleeping in the hallway.

    This was inevitable, unless we want to fuck the economy into the toilet. Some of you may not care that the NHS gets underfunded and understaffed yet further, or schools once more lose the capacity to provide non-leaking roofs, but you know damn well that you are in the minority.

    It would of course be easier simply not to leave the EU. Anyone who wants to rant about 'faceless bureaucrats' or 'unelected MEPs' or 'shiftless immigrants' in response is now welcome to do so. If you haven't learned anything about such basic aspects of reality by now, you never will. And the rest of us will laugh at you.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    "'faceless bureaucrats"

    Someone remind me about how many thousands of more civil servants the government has said it will need to employ due to Brexit. This article says 11,000 and counting.

    IIRC even the current size of the UK bureaucracy far exceeds that of the EU administration.

  29. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    "What the British want is not a divorce, "

    Well, the British people do: it's Teresa May the Remainian who wants to fudge it.

  30. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    "This was inevitable, unless we want to fuck the economy into the toilet. "

    The EU exports more to the UK than the UK sells to the EU. I think you (and Teresa May and other Remoaners) keep forgetting that. You also forget that most countries in the world are outside the EU, yet seem to get by just fine.

    PS No one is ranting about "un-elected MEPS" as all Brexiteers know that MEPs are elected, but are essentially powerless.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    No, that's what te EU want.

    And May is their tool.

    What the British want is a 'clean break'.

    Unfortunately no brexiteer has been allowed near the leave process.

    the resultant muddle is now being both blamed on leavers who had no input, and being used to move the country towards remaining.

    The odd thing is that remoaners seem oblivious to how cynically they are being manipulated.

    Maybe their citizens are as stupid and dumb as the EIU considers them.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    Strange how most if e rest of the world outside the EU has viable economies.

    You fell for project Fear.

    Bless!

  33. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  34. Martin
    FAIL

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    What the British want is a 'clean break'.

    Bollocks.

    A very small majority voted leave. There are 16 million of us who voted to stay.

    I am so SICK of being told that "hard Brexit, get out no matter what damage it does" (aka "a clean break") is what the British people want. It is not what I want, nor anyone I know.

    It's not what the British want. It's what a few tabloids and politicians want. Most of us are just sick of the whole fucking mess we're in now, and want it sorted out - and very many of us, probably by now a majority, would prefer it to be sorted out by saying sod it - let's just stay - it's much easier.

  35. This post has been deleted by its author

  36. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    @ Rich 11

    "This was inevitable, unless we want to fuck the economy into the toilet"

    The Eurozone.

    "Some of you may not care that the NHS gets underfunded and understaffed yet further"

    We are continuing to spend even more on the NHS than before the recession.

    "or schools once more lose the capacity to provide non-leaking roofs"

    Under PFI that is an issue of the private contractor.

    "It would of course be easier simply not to leave the EU"

    Simpler. Undemocratic. Unwise. Its simpler not to get out of bed in a morning but eventually you will die.

    "If you haven't learned anything about such basic aspects of reality by now, you never will"

    While I hold out hope that those determined not to see reality cant stay blind to it forever. Like when people wanted the Euro in this country.

  37. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    @ Martin

    "majority voted leave"

    Just keep repeating that. And think about democracy as you do.

  38. keithpeter
    Coat

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    "What the British want is a 'clean break'"

    Thanks to David Cameron's two box vote we actually don't know that at all.

    We do know that the vote was so close that it was within the sampling error of most opinion polls, and we do know that sentiment has shifted somewhat since, but not by a definitive amount.

    I suspect that sentiment will continue to shift as the consequences of leaving the EU become clearer over the next few months.

    Coat: off out now

  39. Martin
    FAIL

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    "majority voted leave"

    Just keep repeating that. And think about democracy as you do.

    OK, I'll try that.

    "majority voted leave"

    "majority voted leave"

    "majority voted leave"

    "majority voted leave"

    "majority voted leave"

    ...

    Nope. I still see an advisory referendum with a tiny majority one way, that suddenly became a binding referendum, taking near as damn it half the country to a place they didn't want to go. Every other country which has binding referendums insists on a supermajority to ensure that there is no real argument.

    I still see a referendum where the people were lied to by politicians and tabloids with their own agenda, which was financed by illegal payments, and where, two years later, it is clear that what was promised (basically, leaving the EU but keeping all the advantages) is not possible.

    I still see a referendum called by Cameron to appease the Euroskeptics in his own party, just to keep them quiet. No-one really believed that we were actually going to vote leave. The politicians in power just went through the motions, and only afterwards realized they'd put the country into a complete mess.

    I see a country which is more divided than I have even known in my whole life. A mess caused by politicians who were thinking of their party, not of their country, and by tabloid owners thinking of their bank balances, not their readers.

    I don't see democracy anywhere. I just see manipulation by the tabloids, politicians, and the super-rich.

  40. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    @ Martin

    "OK, I'll try that."

    Oh no you were doing so well I was proud of you until I expanded that comment. I thought- if he keeps it up he will realise. But then you started trying to justify minority rule and somehow confusing 'tiny majority' with somehow not a majority and then something about supermajority (aka you lost and dont like it) etc.

    And yes politicians lied. Both sides and badly. And as a leaver watching a remain PM try to keep us in I agree with "I don't see democracy anywhere. I just see manipulation by the tabloids, politicians". The continuation of pro-EU propaganda that has been so badly discredited over and over is sickening.

    But before you get to any of that we should take small steps and start at the beginning. Now repeat- "majority voted leave". Keep going you will get there.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    "I don't see democracy anywhere."

    The danger is that a divided country will end up electing any populist who promises they have simple solutions to all issues and will Make the UK Great Again. Whether that would be extreme right or extreme left has become a moot point.

  42. Adair

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    So, in codejunky's world, the half who voted for the status quo, and all the rest who didn't express an view for whatever reason (including not being allowed) magically vanish. A tiny majority is exactly the same as a massive majority in codejunky's mind.

    Please don't ever go into politics - there are far too many like you there already. People who don't know what 'public service' means, who think 'my way or the highway' is the only way, and who would happily nuke the enemy because 'they deserve it'.

    No, codejunky, we really don't need more people with those kinds of attitudes towards other human beings, and how we all live together. We have far too many of them already - and look at the state we're in!

  43. codejunky Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    @ Adair

    "So, in codejunky's world, the half who voted for the status quo, and all the rest who didn't express an view for whatever reason (including not being allowed) magically vanish"

    Ahhh I see your problem. Its called the real world and you are wrong. For example it was not half voting for the status quo (50%) is was less than half. Also those who didnt express a view do magically vanish from the calculation since they didnt vote, so we cannot assume their opinion (or that they have one).

    "A tiny majority is exactly the same as a massive majority in codejunky's mind"

    Actually it seems to be you struggling with the words. You can remove the tiny and massive words because this is a democracy and the rules of the vote were in place before the vote and the vote returned a valid result which met the rules and as a result the majority is the democratic opinion.

    "Please don't ever go into politics"

    I have no intention of going into that cesspit. But considering your difficulty with the basics of democracy I suggest you also avoid politics.

    "People who don't know what 'public service' means, who think 'my way or the highway' is the only way"

    It amazes me that you can write that without applying the same logic to yourself. You already pointed out the majority vote, which is also the result of the referendum. A referendum we got due to a general election and supported to go forward by another general election. And yet you want to push your minority opinion as the only way?

  44. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    It would of course be easier simply not to leave the EU.

    And there is the crux of the matter. People want the easy option, even if it just leads to mediocrity and economic stagnation. The idea that a difficult choice which requires lots of hard work might be better in the future is just unacceptable. Much easier to let someone else do the work, and just tell you what do. Anything for a quiet life. Truly shameful.

  45. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    Most of us are just sick of the whole fucking mess we're in now, and want it sorted out

    And it's treally sad that Brexit is being seen as the only way to do that. If the self-serving politicians in Brussels could actually see past the end of their own ambitions, and stopped assuming that the only solution for Europe was centralized control with them in charge, we'd never have needed Brexit.

    I can't help but feel that the next EU elections are going to be quite a wake-up call.

  46. strum Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    >And think about democracy as you do.

    Don't just think about it - do it. Democracy isn't a one-time offer.

  47. strum Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    >Unfortunately no brexiteer has been allowed near the leave process.

    Except for Boris Johnson & David Davis & Dominic Raab - Brexiteers all.

    The odd thing is that Brexiteers seem oblivious to how cynically they are being manipulated.

  48. strum Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    >The EU exports more to the UK than the UK sells to the EU

    UK exports to EU = 45% of our exports

    EU exports to UK = 7% of their exports.

    The liars keep 'forgetting' that.

  49. strum Silver badge

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    >Well, the British people do:

    The British people just wanted to give 'them people' a good kicking. They didn't have a clue where they were going (still don't).

  50. eric halfabe

    Re: Ah, the UK gov

    ">Unfortunately no brexiteer has been allowed near the leave process.

    Except for Boris Johnson & David Davis & Dominic Raab - Brexiteers all."

    Except they weren't. Boris was FS. David Davis was involved in negotiations but that wasn't the leave process at all. The leave process was being conducted by Oily Robins in secret and the results of that were handed to the cabinet at Chequers where they were told to agree to the dog's breakfast or walk home. As for Raab he ended up being Oily Robins dispatch clerk shuttling back and forth to Brussels with Oily's latest sellout. Raab finally resigned when he realised that what had been agreed about the backstop was not actually in the printed draft that wasn't available until yesterday. After the cabinet had been in to see May one by one and told they had to support it before they could read the nearly 600 pages.

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