back to article Zip it! 3 more reasons to be glad you didn't jump on Windows 10 1809

The problems with the Windows 10 October 2018 Update just keep on rolling in as users complain of borked zip file extraction, broken fonts and iffy brightness controls. The infamous file deletion bug and blue screen reports have drowned out other issues somewhat. So, allow us to present a round-up that could have been titled " …

  1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

    Oh, Zippy

    Nope, wasn't me. Must be some other Zippy you're thinking of.

    (Oh and RIP Geoffrey from a few weeks ago as well...)

  2. Forget It

    What to do in the meantime ?

    None of my security updates can apparently update until I agree to

    download Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1803:

    (Windows Defender)

    (Malicious Software Removal Tool)

    (Adobe Flash Player for Windows 10 )

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't think that "Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1803" is the 1809 update - that's just the next set of the ongoing series of weekly patches

  4. Forget It
    Thumb Up

    Thanks for that

    thanks for that !

  5. Registered Register Registrant

    I can suggest a workaround: download and run WSUS Offline Update instead. It may not update everything, but it will give you important security fixes.

  6. jelabarre59 Silver badge

    (Malicious Software Removal Tool)

    I've tried that... I'll install the Malicious Software Removal Tool, but when I reboot, MSWindows is still there...

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I had to re-read that twice, but the penny finally dropped :)

  8. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    It is a bit of a disgrace. How do they manage to introduce new bugs into something that's been in windows as long as zip file handling? For a problem to have appeared there, there must have been a change. What was the change that caused that problem?

    Windows has always been known for its propensity to dick people around. Microsoft is now getting a reputation for making over-complicated, hard to use and unreliable software. The biggest gripe of all is the updates.

  9. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    Windows updates - now with extra pain. Windows updating at the start of a presentation not annoying enough? Don't worry, we've got that covered! If your computer ever finishes its update, you can be sure of hundreds of new bugs in things you just assumed worked.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Who even uses Windows ZIP handling?

    My experience, it's about 20 times longer to extract files than 7ZIP. ZIP handling is pretty much the biggest joke in Windows, which is saying something itself.

  11. DJV Silver badge

    Re: Who even uses Windows ZIP handling?

    Normal, non-techy users who don't even realise there are better tools out there. Unfortunately, that probably means most of them.

  12. Solarflare

    Re: Who even uses Windows ZIP handling?

    To be fair, it does depend on what I'm doing, but I sometimes use inbuilt windows zip. Why? Because I can double click into the file from within windows explorer, if all I am after is viewing a log file within a zip quickly, then it makes more sense to reach that in a couple of clicks rather than bothering to unzip with a different product.

    Other than that though, I'll freely admit that built in functionality for handling zip archives sucks balls.

  13. LDS Silver badge

    Re: Who even uses Windows ZIP handling?

    When you have to work on machines that don't have anything else installed, and you can't install anything on them.

  14. bombastic bob Silver badge

    Re: Who even uses Windows ZIP handling?

    do it from the command line via Cygwin. Fixed.

  15. Ken Hagan Gold badge

    Re: Who even uses Windows ZIP handling?

    Someone who doesn't unzip files often enough (or large enough) for the performance difference to be measurable.

    Someone who doesn't have admin rights to download and install software from random warez sites?

  16. My Alter Ego

    Re: Who even uses Windows ZIP handling?

    People who use the right tool for the right job. I use tar.gz if transferring data between *nix machines, unless bandwidth is crap, then I use as the CPU expense [hopefully] is worth the transfer time saving. Zip is perfect when interoperability is paramount, as I know it's supported on pretty much every OS.

  17. Fred West

    Re: Who even uses Windows ZIP handling?

    Windows ZIP is only really suitable for a small number of medium size files.

    If it's large files in the ZIP, it sucks, it's lots of very small files in the ZIP, it really sucks. It's sucked badly since the Windows 7 days, and it's continued to suck in Windows 8, Windows 8.1 and now Windows 8.2 (which some idiots that fall for rebranding stunts call Windows 10)

  18. wolfetone Silver badge

    What absolute numpty at Microsoft thinks the update process (both in terms of what the user experiences and how it's delivered to the user in the first place) is fit for purpose?

    The same clown who gets paid to make those decisions and gets a better pension than most of us, probably.

  19. Khaptain Silver badge

    Probably the same numtpy that is goading us towards 0365 online only version....

    A complete bastard.

  20. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Who? The guy at the top has the ultimate responsibility which why he gets paid the big money. Is he a clown? Don't know as I've not seen a big red nose nor checked if his shoes are extra-extra-extra large.

  21. hplasm Silver badge

    Well the Unicode problem is easily explained-

    It's so that the poor sods that use this abomination can't use the Pile O' Poo emoji in all of their posts about just what a Pile O' Poo it actually is!


  22. alain williams Silver badge

    Ship it with bugs

    has long been a Microsoft philosophy. It served it well in the early days as it meant that it got a product to market before the competition. The bugs could be fixed in a later release. Competitors who, later, shipped something with fewer bugs didn't get the sales as the Microsoft offering was seen as 'the standard'.

    Others have also done this sort of thing. In some ways: better something with holes than nothing at all.

    But today Microsoft should not need to do this, it is not scrabbling for market share in the same way. They have the time and resources to do proper QA regression testing - but don't seem to want to.

  23. vtcodger Silver badge

    Re: Ship it with bugs

    If you insist on all bugs being fixed, the first "bug free" release is probably going to take about three years. Later releases may be a bit faster -- two years. Maybe even eighteen months. In the long run, release time will depend on the longest chain of fix that needs a fix that needs a fix ... plus a lot of overhead. Might be doable. Might even be acceptable. But it's going to require massive changes in attitudes and approaches at every level.

    Decidedly NOT agile.

  24. vtcodger Silver badge

    Re: Ship it with bugs

    "has long been a Microsoft philosophy. It served it well in the early days as it meant that it got a product to market before the competition. "

    Equally important I think was that early MS OS products were quite small by modern standards. IIRC, WFWG3.11 -- which was quite usable -- shipped on four 1.44mb floppies plus another three floppies(?) for MSDOS 6.22(?). Testing that for major bugs was something that could probably be done by a small team in communication with each other and the developers in a few weeks. Not so in 2018.

    Even Windows 95 -- which was buggy as a tropical swamp -- only needed 20 odd floppies. It actually ran pretty well about 25 service packs later.

  25. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

    Re: Ship it with bugs

    WFWG3.11 shipped on 8 floppies. 6 mostly for Windows and 2 seemed to be mostly networky stuff.

    DOS 6.22 was 3 floppies if you don't count the Supplemental Kit disk

  26. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Re: Ship it with bugs

    They have the time and resources to do proper QA regression testing - but don't seem to want to.

    Simple reason: QA is a cost center and not a profit center. Gotta' keep the board and shareholders happy.

  27. Frank Thynne

    Re: Ship it with bugs

    But they won't be happy when Microsoft crashes.

  28. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

    Re: Ship it with bugs

    But they won't be happy when Microsoft crashes.

    Alas, I think that's unwarranted optimism. There's no sign yet that either the market for Microsoft products, or the stock markets, care at all about these product failures. I think Microsoft is going to get away with shipping substandard crap and annoying a large fraction of its user base for decades to come.

    What large software vendor has ever been brought down by poor quality? Financial blunders, yes; out-competed by some Flavor of the Week startup, yes. I can't think of one that was seriously hurt simply by peddling rubbish. Once you reach a certain size, you become entrenched, and the user base will complain but continue to take it.

  29. BobChip

    iFixit score of 1

    Note that the latest MS fondleslab gets an iFixit score of just 1 for maintainability and repairability. Looks like the OS should get the same score as well. Or possibly less. Consistency seems to be the key here.

  30. chivo243 Silver badge

    screw the beta testers

    Now you're and Alpha tester, and you're an Alpha tester and so are you... and that laptop running 1806 is a toaster!

  31. onefang

    Re: screw the beta testers

    "that laptop running 1806 is a toaster!"

    Explains why it's running a lot warmer now.

  32. Luke Worm

    3 more reasons that make me glad I totally dumped Windows after version 7 and never went to 10.

    Very satisfied with Linux Mint and macOS.

    Yes, someone had to say it.

  33. Nate Amsden Silver badge

    for me it was NT4 that drove me to linux. I liked win95 for a bit, got a NT 3.51 server cd from a friend at MS back in the day, liked that(more stable). NT4 was neat though I guess moving more shit into the kernel made it less stable. Quite a few crashes and seemingly have to reinstall every 6-12 months made me jump to Linux (Slackware 3.x) then Debian 2.0.

    I still have Win7 at home and even an XP box(really games though I don't play much games). My main laptop dual boots to win7 but doesn't spend more than a dozen or so hours per year in win7 on average. I have a Win7 VM for work stuff that works fine.

    So glad I never jumped on win10. I never did see the popups from MS offering free upgrades to win10. Win7 (and win2k8/r2 for the few windows servers I have) do what I need. win2k12 was quite annoying(have a half dozen of those systems).

    Main interface for me though has been linux since about 1998.

  34. Scroticus Canis Silver badge

    Yes, someone had to say it.

    Went OSX in 2001 and have been fighting the schadenfreude ever since.*

    Three weeks into a major release and still problems, well done M$.

    I avoid any MS product that I can. I have used Skype to stay in touch with friends but have a feeling that will end when I try the enforced new version.

    * - unsuccessfully :) , but in this case I am starting to feel sorry for the poor sods stuck with it.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    mandatory updates = you're the QA team

    Who thought, after imposing mandatory updates, MS would keep any QA team what so f***ing ever ?

    Why would they have done that other than firing the whole QA team ?

  36. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

    I lost my pr0nz collection that way!!

    Reports of the bug rapidly spread and we at Vulture Central were able to recreate it on our installation. It's a pretty nasty issue – a user could copy a file out of an archive, assume the copy was successful and then delete the zip file. However, if a file with the same name already exists, Windows 10 would have silently done... nothing. Oops.

    KDE Dolphin, is that you???

  37. J J Carter Silver badge

    For shame!

    I'd expect the ZIP file handling bug was introduced as part of making File Explorer respect the Dark Theme setting.

  38. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

    Is there

    any way we can sue M$ under the consumer rights act?

    Eg... I go out and buy a new PC loaded with win 10, 2 weeks later a m$ update borks and bricks the thing.

    Surely then the PC becomes defective goods and must be replaced or refunded by the supplier

    But would we (being us consumers) put up with this behaviour from any other customer/business goods supplier? Oh I've just got a new car/tv/washing machine/toaster....... after 2 weeks it doesn't work because the manufacturer 'updated' the software ...

  39. Highinthemountains

    Re: Is there

    There’s probably an arbitration clause in the license agreement. Microsoft using their users as alpha testers and ignoring significant documented bugs as low impact is abominable.

    I had 8 machines in my shop that 1803 bricked and Microsoft’s fix was a wipe and reload since the rollback didn’t work. When I asked the Microsoft rep how I was supposed to explain to the customer that their update broke their computer and that I had to charge them to fix it. His response was that they would fix it for free, but the customer needed another computer and a couple of flash drives. When I asked the rep if he thought that working over the phone with someone who can barely operate their computer and him having a pretty heavy accent if it was going to end well? He kinda hemmed and hawed and said maybe.

    I guess I should look at this as a blessing in disguise. Microsoft can keep pushing out sh*tty code and I’ll keep making money rebuilding the computers their “keep it fresh” updates bork.

  40. Timmy B Silver badge

    Re: Is there

    "But would we (being us consumers) put up with this behaviour from any other customer/business goods supplier? Oh I've just got a new car/tv/washing machine/toaster....... after 2 weeks it doesn't work because the manufacturer 'updated' the software …"

    If it was supplied configured so that it would apply updates and one of the updates broke it then take it back to the shop. They sold you something unfit for purpose.

  41. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    another coat of Lip Stick

    on the MS Pig.

    It is still a Pig though.

  42. jMcPhee

    Re: another coat of Lip Stick

    M$ says it's their most secure pig ever!

  43. Andy Non

    Re: another coat of Lip Stick

    Pigs might fly.

  44. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Re: another coat of Lip Stick

    Pigs might fly.

    Indeed and dive bomb dropping shit everywhere. So yes, Win10 is a flying pig.

  45. terrythetech

    Re: another coat of Lip Stick

    @ jMcPhee "M$ says it's their most secure pig ever!"

    Well of course, the black hats have to work around all those bugs too.

  46. Someone Else Silver badge

    Oh, Zippy

    Why in the world would anyone use the any Micros~1 zip utility? (Oh, yes, its from Micros~1...I forgot.)

    7-Zip FTW!

  47. Johnny Canuck

    file sharing

    Anybody tried to do workgroup file sharing on windows 10? What a screwed up mess.

  48. arctic_haze Silver badge

    Final Windows version

    Now I see why Win 10 is supposed to be the final Windows version. It will end as a steaming pile of crap.

  49. bobjimwhit

    never had any problems with 7 or 10

    if you think it's shit, go elsewhere..

  50. Piro

    Yes, that old logical fallacy. Because *I've* not experienced a particular issue, it doesn't exist.

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