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back to article Punkt: A minimalist Android for the paranoid

Readers cry out for more diversity in the phone world, but few alternatives are as striking as Punkt's take on Android. Petter Neby, founder and CEO of the Swiss design-led company, told The Register Punkt's second device is coming to market this year with an unusual USP – security hardening by BlackBerry. Just don't call it …

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          1. werdsmith Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Do you have a Gemini - if so what's it like?

            I have the Gemini and I love it. I have a use for it and a lifestyle which fit together to make it a problem solving bulls-eye for me.

            However, I can't talk about the Agenda app (they've also got a reboot of the Psion database app coming) because I've been exclusively sailfish since it become available.

            2 0 Reply
  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bravo...

    ...for the sub headline. Made my day.

    12 0 Reply
    1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker
      Reply Icon
      Pint

      Re: Bravo...

      I see what you did there. Here, have this ----->

      4 0 Reply
    2. Crisp
      Reply Icon

      Re: Bravo...

      Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda almost didn't notice.

      9 0 Reply
  3. PeeKay
    Meh

    Unrooted does not mean secure

    "In the three years since the Priv launched, BlackBerry has yet to see it rooted. BlackBerry wants IoT device manufacturers to adopt this as a quality mark. With so much insecure home tat flying in from China, consumers and industrial buyers need all the help they can get."

    While I'd admit that all IoT things needs a hellava lot more security, being unable to root a device is not necessarily an indicator of security for your devices at home - and I wouldn't use this as a measure of how secure - ultimately - that device is (be it IoT, phones, et al).

    13 1 Reply

  4. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. big_D Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: DOA

      Most of the companies I deal with now are banning or planning to ban WhatsApp from company devices.

      Either you cannot have any contacts on the phone or you can't use WhatsApp (well, you can use WhatsApp with the link to contacts disabled, but you then only get a list of messages with the senders' phone numbers, no names and you can't add new contacts to WhatsApp, making it effectively useless.

      We moved to a mixture of Threema and Signal, because the way they treat contacts falls within the rules of GDPR, whilst WhatsApp has been declared by many DPO, including a couple in Germany, as non-compliant. Probably the biggest company I've heard of banning WhatsApp is Conti/Continental.

      22 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: DOA

        That could be solved by third party contact management software.

        1 1 Reply
    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: DOA

      Not sure how consumers probably have four of five devices that do WhatsApp already unless they have, erm, two or three phones already with WhatsApp web set up.

      7 0 Reply
    3. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: DOA

      Whatsapp is pretty much a necessity now.

      Obviously in some parallel universe to the corporate world I work in. And indeed personally....what is this "Wassup" of which you speak?

      27 1 Reply
      1. Andy 97
        Reply Icon

        Re: DOA

        I suggest Slack would be pretty important for some.

        1 0 Reply
      2. Martin-73 Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: DOA

        Parallel universe yes. For my colleague and myself it's invaluable for sharing images and data about jobs. With due regard to GDPR of course, nothing identifiable.

        0 0 Reply
  5. Ken 16 Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    I like the idea (if not the price)

    I did think there'd be a market for a phone running Wear OS.

    I figure it should have decent battery life given a form factor larger than a watch and there's a small app market. Add a hardware "airplane mode" switch, removable battery back a la Nokia 5110 and make sure there's no camera and it could be the ideal business phone.

    6 0 Reply
  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So it's a £10 dumb phone that can do 4g tethering.

    It's overpriced by a multiple of at least 10.

    25 4 Reply
    1. DropBear
      Reply Icon

      Exactly. If I wanted a dumbphone - which this _IS_ - I could still have either an old one or a new one, damn nearly for free. Reading the headline I was hoping they came up with something that would enhance my control over my data and privacy on an actual smartphone but no - they just went for the trivial baby + bathwater "solution".

      7 1 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      dumb phone

      Wow, ad-homs against devices now.

      The problem is that when you buy what's supposed to be a "dumb phone" these days it's normally just a fully functioning chipset in a crippled shell. Anyone who understands what an attack surface is realises that that isn't reducing your vulnerability, just your control.

      9 1 Reply
  7. PTW

    I can understand no Whatsapp

    To be free of the Facebook slurp, but no Signal? I would have thought that a no brainer.

    Although, with no store I guess a secure update process would be more difficult - the Signal website even carries a warning about downloading the apk directly.

    1 0 Reply
    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      Re: I can understand no Whatsapp

      Exactly, if I wanted to have a phone that would only call and text, I'd dig out my old Nokia (or Sony, or whatever will still hold a charge).

      These days I want some kind of secure messaging, be that Signal, or Telegram or Whatsapp or whatever.

      Sure, they say:

      Neby said consumers probably have "four or five devices" that do WhatsApp already.

      Which just begs the question, why would I bother carrying their device around as well? It doesn't give me anything I don't get elsewhere.

      4 0 Reply
  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It runs Android...

    ...therefore it will never be secure. If you take all the data gathering out of Android, you're left with □.

    4 19 Reply
    1. Dave 126 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: It runs Android...

      AOSP. Android Open Source Project. The clue is in the name.

      Of course, like more traditional desktop GNU Linux distributions there is the matter of binary blob (closed) drivers (though in this case more reading up might be a good idea - this device has fewer chipsets to require binary blobs), and even nefarious hardware inserted into the supply chain (see recent articles).

      9 0 Reply
  9. MacroRodent

    Why android?

    It apparently has the feature set of a circa-2000 Nokia (except for the 3G and 4G network support). So why is it running the resource-hungry android?

    10 0 Reply
    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Why android?

      Because developing their own dumb OS would be more expensive. Unfortunately Android/AOSP is the lowest common denominator.

      5 2 Reply
      1. Charles 9
        Reply Icon

        Re: Why android?

        And what about some of the older ones already out there? Is there something wrong with Sailfish? Meego? System 60? App assortment isn't a priority, so there goes Android's chief advantage, and the older OS's were built with weaker CPUs and batteries in mind, meaning they'll sip the power better by necessity.

        11 0 Reply
        1. Dan 55 Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Why android?

          Sailfish has to be paid for.

          Meego is dead for today's hardware.

          System 60 is closed and dead.

          Android/AOSP is free, therefore it's used even though it's not suited for dumbphones. I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is.

          12 0 Reply
          1. Dave 126 Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Why android?

            All of the above, save System 60, are based on Linux like Android is.

            There's QNX - owned by Blackberry for last few years - that can be much smaller than any Linux varient, but presumably the Punkt developers are happy with the battery life.

            4 0 Reply
          2. Dave 126 Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Why android?

            Presumably Android modem drivers from the ODMs are easier to get hold of than those for other OSs.

            4 0 Reply
            1. Charles 9
              Reply Icon

              Re: Why android?

              OK, so if blob access is an issue (and with ODM, they're always blobs), then it's probably a matter of accessibility. As Android is the go-to OS for mobile component manufacturers not in the Apple bandwagon, that would limit options.

              2 0 Reply
              1. Norman Nescio Silver badge
                Reply Icon

                Re: Why android?

                There is the Nokia 8110 4G, which is an HMD Global 'feature phone', with 4G and tethering. It runs a derivative of KaiOS. It is considerably cheaper than the Punkt.

                Having got one with the express intention of avoiding Android and iOS, and using tethering to give on-the-go Internet access to other devices, I'll say it is very much a curate's egg.

                The derivative of KaiOS ain't open, and it is very restrictive. The UI is very unpolished, and the keyboard is nowhere near as good/ergonomic as the original Nokia 8110. If you can, I would strongly recommend trying one out for a few days before deciding whether to buy one for yourself.

                I'm waiting for Sailfish OS 3.0 to be released, hopefully this month, and will likely get a compatible Sony phone, although I'm not over-keen on buying a SONY-branded product ever since the 'CD' rootkit debacle. I console myself with the sophistry that Sony Mobile are a pretty much separate company to Sony BMG - even so, for some people (including me) SONY is a toxic brand.

                Assuming Sailfish 3.0 lives up to expectations, the Nokia 8810 4G will become my reserve phone - still useful, but not the daily driver.

                1 0 Reply
  10. myhandler

    I like it but I need mapping.

    I want a minimal slurp free phone - I'd pay $350 for that.

    This is no better than my dumb phone.

    8 0 Reply
  11. alain williams Silver badge

    It looks very nice

    Phone calls, texts, address book, tethering - that is all that I really need.

    It would be nice if they provided the source code so that it could be verified, but they won't -- shame.

    4 0 Reply
    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: It looks very nice

      "It would be nice if they provided the source code so that it could be verified, but they won't"

      They're obliged to provide source code for all the GPL stuff but not for anything they've added.

      3 0 Reply
      1. Charles 9
        Reply Icon

        Re: It looks very nice

        "They're obliged to provide source code for all the GPL stuff but not for anything they've added."

        Plus ODM drivers are always blobbed because the market there is cutthroat and no one wants to Give Information to the Enemy. And because all 4G-and-up tech and most 3G tech is still under active patent, opening modem chips up (the most important part of the cell phone) ain't gonna happen for any length of time that would be practical.

        0 1 Reply
  12. finbarre

    ... but why does it have 2GB RAM? Surely it would need less than half that.

    5 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      My guess is because it only cost a few quid to add and they hoped it would help to justify the enormous cost of the phone.

      6 0 Reply
  13. hammarbtyp

    Interesting comments.

    They seem to go along the line.

    Great phone, if only it had....

    email

    Whatsapp

    Mapping

    any other app i use more than 2 times a day

    While i am sure there are niche markets for such a phone, in the end people find while minimalism looks good in the shop window, real life is more complicated than that

    11 1 Reply
    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      "While i am sure there are niche markets for such a phone"

      Clearly it's aimed at such niche markets. All those comments are really saying "I'm not in that niche". OK, they're not. So what?

      10 0 Reply
  14. oiseau
    Facepalm

    I may be just a crazy old man, but I want one.

    Maybe ...

    But then I'm also crazy (varied friends' opinions), for the moment refuse to consider myself old and would also want one, albeit not for 350.

    It's just a f*ck*ng phone FGS.

    Just without all the assorted/innecessary crap that cell phones come with these days, which should really make it much cheaper.

    That said, I get along just fine with an old BB9320 (when the keyboard is not acting up) or a Samsung E220 as a trusty spare.

    5 0 Reply
  15. 0laf
    Thumb Down

    I'd rather not carry multiple devices if I can help it. I think that's the case for most people which is why they often have one powerful phone type device which does 90% of their needs.

    This is an expensive dumb phone with tethering which means I'd still have to carry multiple devices.

    If I'm going to carry multiple devices anyway I would probably choose a sub $50 dumb phone and a $50 4G dongle or a device with built in LTE.

    This seems a bit, well, wanky.

    Anyone remember the Harry Enfield sketch where he runs a shop called "I saw you coming"?

    15 0 Reply
  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    it's good that it does calls really well. much like its useful when a toilet flushes, or a knife cuts.

    cant image what i'd do with a phone that didnt make calls very well. but i guess this is the world in which we live, where products are credited for doing the very thing that predicates their existance.

    5 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      cant image what i'd do with a phone that didnt make calls very well.

      There's a surprising number of them, and from some highly rated vendors.

      12 0 Reply
  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IP52

    Not good enough, sorry.

    The upcoming Cat B35 basically seems to do everything this does, plus be water, dust and drop resistant, and will cost a lot less.

    6 0 Reply
    1. Choux
      Reply Icon

      Re: IP52

      The Cat B35 is already out, thankfully! £99 direct from Cat, probably slightly more elsewhere.

      It has a certain bulky charm to it, plus a scratch resistant screen, which is a big plus over the HMD 8110 4G. Given the pricepoint I'll probably end up getting one, to serve as a backup/featurephone w. hotspot and email. It covers most bases, and everything else is just residual habit from smartphone use (and the kind of thing that I don't mind not having if I, say, run out of juice on the android behemoth that lives in my trousers.

      I do have some minor reservations about KaiOS, since I don't know how much information is able to be slurped from it via the inevitable google bloat. Possibly also worth considering that while whatsapp is available on the platform it's currently only available for Jio devices, and neither KaiOS/Whatsapp haven't made a statement of intent re:broader availability which might be an issue for some.

      6 0 Reply
      1. JibberX
        Reply Icon

        Re: IP52

        I bought the 8110 4G recently, screen scratched on the day of purchase. Must be all the diamonds (pocket grit, plastic screen) in my pocket?

        Wish I'd seen the Cat before I impulse bought.

        4G hotspot works abroad without buying extra tethering, so saving me a fiver a day already.

        Removable battery on the 8110 might be good if I could find replacements, over the Cat, but that has 600 extra mahs.

        3 0 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: IP52 - It has a certain bulky charm to it

        Comparable in size to the current Sony compact, which is about the smallest waterproof Android. How far we have come...not always in a good way.

        I remember around 2000 on the Underground seeing someone with his brand new Motorola V8088 - a tiny thing - and obviously desperately hoping someone would notice he had the latest, coolest, tiniest...but of course there was no signal so he was reduced to fiddling with and opening and shutting it ostentatiously. Today I am sure that man has the latest, biggest iPhone.

        4 0 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Gunk in your pocket

          Will often include quartz from sandy grit, which will scratch any plastic. If it was easy to make screens that are both scratch and break resistant, we'd see phones that could stand up to both without basically building a thick case around them like the CAT.

          4 0 Reply
      3. Norman Nescio Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: IP52

        I share your reservations about KaiOS.

        That said, the JioPhone 2 looks interesting, with the Qwerty-keyboard, but since it is only available in India, locked to Reliance's network, it's not something I could play with. As it also seems to be locked to Reliance's walled garden (Jio Store), I suspect KaiOS is aimed at network operators wanting to maintain or increase their ARPU and not paranoid FLOSS junkies like me.

        1 0 Reply
  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Full Android?

    Does it run a full android? 12 days operating time is impressive but in many cases I hear Google Services is what eats battery. Removing it means you have no Google maps but that might not be an app you want to run on a small screen like that

    3 0 Reply
    1. Spazturtle Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Full Android?

      Yeah I can get a week out of my Lenovo P2 (5100mAh battery) if I want. Switching to a ROM that uses MicroG (open source re-implementation of the Google Play APIs) gave a large increase to battery life.

      3 0 Reply
  19. Velv
    Headmaster

    “consumers probably have "four or five devices" that do WhatsApp already

    Well, no, they probably don’t, because WhatsApp unlike many competitor messaging apps restricts itself to phones only, so it doesn’t run as an app on my tablets, PCs, Macs etc. (I don’t count running it in a browser with convoluted access as a sufficient App).

    2 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      The mac version doesn't even really run on the mac - it just acts as a frontend and your phone has to be constantly connected.

      I use it for its convenience to use a real keyboard, but it's not really running on the mac.

      3 0 Reply

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