back to article 30-up: You know what? Those really weren't the days

It's 30 years since .EXE Magazine carried the first Stob column; this is its pearl Perl anniversary. Rereading article #1, a spoof self-tester in the Cosmo style, I was struck by how distant the world it invoked seemed. For example: Your program requires a disk to have been put in the floppy drive, but it hasn't. What happens …

    1. Mark 110

      And where did she suddenly appear from?!? I thought she'd retired. And she is way more coherent than normal . .

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        she is way more coherent than normal

        That she speaketh of things you cannot follow does not always imply *she* is the incoherent one :).

        Ah, Turbo Pascal. I used to save money on software by being a beta tester for Borland and although I never amounted to much as a programmer (at least in my eyes) I have done a lot of weird things with both Turbo Pascal and Paradox.

        On one occasion I replaced two man weeks of typing with a 15 minute batchfile that (a) ran a report on the central server to generate a report (the thing that was normally typed in by 2 people over a week), (b) grabbed the resulting file with Kermit (that the sysadmin agreed to install), (c) stripped the headers and cleaned it up with some Turbo Pascal code, (d) ran a Paradox script to import the result, chew on it some and then spit out the result those typists were after. But accurate (my motivation was not the speed - the inaccuracies always messed up my work).

        As I wasn't allowed to do this (programming was seen as a magic process by management, not to be performed by mere unauthorised mortals lurking in outposts and warehouses on the dangly end of a serial MUX) I had to do it on the sly, and even after I got it to work it was sort of not acknowledged because that would piss off the programming gods at HQ.

        But boy did it get a workout :).

        Come to think of it, it was in those days the first inkjet arrived, and in those hallowed days you could still give something a "BJ xxx" (BJ 130) designator without people sniggering in the back (yes, I heard you) as Canon called it a "bubblejet" which was mercifully silent compared to the Start dot matrix I just overheated by accidentally making it print a page of solid black (don't ask, but it failed very spectacularly :) ). Of course, I came up with the idea of using the thing as a barcode label printer which was completely out of spec for the poor thing, but it just worked and as a "proper" thermal transfer printer would have set us back for a factor more, we didn't care - we'd get a new one if it broke (which, to Canon's credit, it never did).

        In those days the amount of buyers was still low enough for Canon to spot that we where blowing through ink at about 4x the expected rate ('coz we waz printing a lotta black, man) so we got a call, "WTF were we doing, is the printer bust?". When we told Canon we were torturing the poor thing with barcodes, we were told it would not stand up to that and break in a month. Telling them we'd been doing it for half a year now with no problems earned us a personal visit of the EMEA head - which turned out to be a former Borland rep. Small world - but you could get sh*t done.

        As for BBS et al - does anyone recall DoubleDOS? :)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >I thought she'd retired.

        That would be unexpected, she is still young.

        While here references places her DOB clearly, it would still be ungentlemanly to state her age. Let us just say I expect her to be around for decades to come.

        1. Geoffrey W

          RE: "I expect her to be around for decades to come."

          Well good! I hope I'm here to read her...

  1. SeanEllis
    Thumb Up

    The Meaning of Stob

    One column that made it onto the wall of my cubicle "back in the day" was your additional Meaning of Liff definitions. Even now, I refer to myself "climbing a Dollis Hill", and complain if people's programming style is "too pimlico".

    Happy Anniversary, Ms Stob.

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: The Meaning of Stob

      climbing a Dollis Hill

      Amusingly, there was a Dollis Hill council estate in the London Borough of Barnet (where I was dragged up).

      Not a place you wanted to go on your own. Or even in a small squad with major weaponry.

      1. David Haig

        Re: The Meaning of Stob

        And Dollis Hill was where one of the GPO's research facilities was located Before Adastra Park....

  2. Vulch

    Alternative 2018 floppy disc put-down

    "How cute! You've 3d printed the save icon!"

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Alternative 2018 floppy disc put-down

      Swallow the coffee and put down the cup. USB and internal 3½" floppy drives are still for sale on Amazon. You can even buy a pack of disks - you will only need 4 for the Raspberry Pi Linux kernel!

      1. John 110

        Re: Alternative 2018 floppy disc put-down

        I'm looking at a stack of 3½" floppies now. It's next to the DC2120 tapes and those halogen MR16 bulbs I can't give away. The USB drive is over there under my Hudl...

      2. red floyd

        Re: Alternative 2018 floppy disc put-down

        What I'm looking for is a 5.25" USB floppy drive. Or even an internal drive. I have a copy of Windows 1.03 that I want to install on a VM, but it's on 5.25" disks.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Alternative 2018 floppy disc put-down

          Maybe this controller can help?

        2. BostonEddie

          Re: Alternative 2018 floppy disc put-down

          I have a AUTOCAD 11 on 5 1/2 floppy with the drive for 386, complete with two drawing pads and the templates for drawing schematics and text. No USB; sorry. Probably have the xternal power supplies for something or other. I keep it under my workbench with my Data General One laptop and my Sears 1922 Neutrodyne.

  3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Whenever I declared a LongMixedCaseIdentifier, I instantly forgot its precise spelling."

    Right now the younglings are thinking "Why couldn't she just copy and paste it?".

    Thanks, Verity, of 30 years of IT writing that ranks with the sadly-missed Stan Kelly-Bootle.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Copy paste

      "Right now the younglings are thinking "Why couldn't she just copy and paste it?"."

      yyp

      :x

  4. Wellyboot Silver badge

    'Twas in the year of '88

    Turbo Pascal, first programming environ I used on PCs, I do remember it as being quite usable after previously being all COBOL on various mini's.

    WIMP & GEM, I though that's a very pretty way of kicking off the full screen DOS programs compared to 'menu.bat' everyone used but the mouse cost (about £30 then) was just plain silly, mind you an ordinary Cherry keyboard was touching £100. queue gasps from the youngsters :)

    1. Spazturtle Silver badge

      Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

      "mind you an ordinary Cherry keyboard was touching £100. queue gasps from the youngsters :)"

      Youngsters would think that £100 is a pretty good price for a Cherry mechanical keyboard.

    2. Martin
      Headmaster

      Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

      queue gasps from the youngsters

      cue - signal or indicator

      queue - a row of people waiting for something.

      Sigh

      PS - happy anniversary, Ms Stob - brilliantly witty for thirty years. Just to mention two, your code walkthrough article and Lord Peter Wimsey skit will live long in my memory.

    3. Mage Silver badge

      Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

      GEM was used by at least one DTP program. It wasn't much worse than windows 2.0 on 8088/8086

      Counterpoint was the ultimate graphical DOS Launcher. Gem was pointless for that.

      1. red floyd

        Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

        Atari used GEM for the ST, didn't they?

      2. David Given

        Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

        That DTP package would be Ami Pro, by Lotus. I used it a lot as a teenager; it was pretty good. Relatively nippy even on a ghastly old 286. GEM wasn't much more than a single-tasking shell and GUI toolkit, but it was clean and got out of the way and suited Ami Pro fine. (And was a huge step above the trainwreck which was native DOS GUI applications.)

        Strangely I can barely find a mention of the GEM version on the interwebs. There are plenty of mentions of the forgettable Windows version which came out later, but nothing about the GEM version. I wonder if I can find a copy? I bet it'd run really well on a modern PC...

    4. David Roberts
      Windows

      Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

      WIMP and GEM?

      Am I the only one brought up on character terminals and DOS PCs to have been given an early MAC and spent an hour looking for the command prompt, and on being told there wasn't one spending another few hours wondering "but how do you make it do anything useful?"?

      1. David Given

        Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

        Re Apple Macs and command lines: yes, that was precisely my experience. The first thing I looked for was the menu option to exit the GUI.

        I'm particularly proud that after diligent searching, I *did* actually manage to find the CLI, by locating the interrupt key on the side of the machine; this dropped me into MacsBug, which was completely incomprehensible...

    5. BostonEddie

      Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

      OMG--am I that old? (I wont mention my exposure on the IBM 360 Mark 1965, fresh out of the box; I have a Certificate of Competence on the IBM 026 Duplicating Keypunch) I remember the Eternal Summer when the internet went to hell...and even the comp.women debate. At the time I had a DEC terminal that I could connect to the internet; there was a local ISP that I could connect to for free after 5 PM. During the day Ed Featherstone would extract and email usenet postings. I later did field circus on Nat. Weather Service weathermap receivers controlled by tone controls over the phone lines

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 'Twas in the year of '88

      As a now almost-oldie myself, the thing that always most horrifies me about these reminders of the past is that apparently there actually really were some misguided people who were somehow “trying” to do stuff with those primitive DOS beige boxes, while the rest of us were *really* getting things done (in glorious musical Technicolor) with our Amigas, Atari STs, or even (if you had very wealthy parents) Apple Macs…

  5. OssianScotland

    DnD?

    "My first DnD encounter"

    I am, unfortunately, old enough that my first thought was of a certain role-playing game with funny dice.

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: DnD?

      I am, unfortunately, old enough that my first thought was of a certain role-playing game with funny dice

      Nowt wrong with ADnD. Apart from the riduculous racially-limited class system. And the many inconsistencies. And the overt sexism..

      (But hey - I was a student then and spent far more time playing ADnD and CoC than actually studying..)

    2. big_D Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: DnD?

      There is another sort of DnD?

      I remember one DM getting fed up with one dwarf always going into the brothel, he ended up "slipping in" an evil witch that hexed him, it made night time travel on the road easy, but being stealthy when your nether regions glow through your leather trousers is not easy.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: DnD?

      drag/drop certainty: right-click 'copy' on source. go to other explorer/caja/konqueror/whatever window. right-click 'paste'. Then, when it's complete, optionally delete source with another right-click maneuver

      takes more time, but you're unlikely to drop it on the wrong thing that way

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: DnD?

        Ah. One of the things most of us carry over from that era is the knowledge that keyboard shortcuts are a LOT faster than the whole mouse thing. In my experience it also leads to far less RSI.

  6. iron Silver badge
    Pint

    Congrats on the anniversary Verity! I can't claim to have read your columns since the beginning but I did use Turbo Pascal at Uni and had many pleasurable years with Delphi while all around me were cursing Visual Basic.

  7. Just Enough
    Thumb Up

    Happy Birthday Verity Stob!

    Thanks for sharing 30 years of what always appeared to be a more interesting, varied and funny programming career than mine.

  8. vtcodger Silver badge

    MY thanks to Ms Stob

    I'd like to thank Ms Stob for making me realize that I've been avoiding drag and drop for three decades. Didn't like it in 1988 and don't like it now. I have no idea why.

    And I'd also like to thank her for letting me know that I'm not the only one who finds git to be baffling. Not that I think get is bad or evil. I just don't grok it. Fortuitously RCS is sufficient for my needs.

    1. Martin Gregorie

      Re: MY thanks to Ms Stob

      Make that CVS and I'm with you.

  9. PerlyKing
    WTF?

    Ligatures in editors

    The last time I encountered ligatures in an editor was using Eclipse in about 2012. I don't know if it was something weird about my setup, but it insisted on rendering "fi" as "fi" (Unicode character 'LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FI' (U+FB01)), semi-randomly ruining the monospaced character alignment.

    Presumably someone somewhere made a deliberate choice to use ligatures wherever possible, but this one is a step too far in my not-so-humble opinion!

    1. caffeine addict

      Re: Ligatures in editors

      That ligature font looked really nice at first. Then I saw their code samples and I realised just how awful an idea it was. I'd quite like to be able to *see* === not have to guess it from it's relative width...

      I have to admit that I've been tempted by ligatures on the web. Mainly because I quite like the idea of using the word "menu" but have it ligature to the hamburger icon. Strikes me as a nice accessibility wossit.

  10. herman

    DnD - That is Dungeons'n Dragons innit?

  11. Marco van de Voort

    Yellow and blue

    Old school programmers used yellow on blue, not black on white. Duh!

    1. vtcodger Silver badge

      Re: Yellow and blue

      Actually, we old timers punched cards. ... Fade to scene of a dozen gaijin and Japanese programmers frantically moving hundreds of boxes of punched cards from computer room floor to tables as typhoon driven floodwaters slowly infiltrate computer center. Yes, that happened.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Yellow and blue

        We old timers used stone circles, survives hurricanes really well - but takes for ever to reboot

      2. jake Silver badge

        Re: Yellow and blue

        Punch cards? Luxury. We toggled switches and read Blinkenlights ... and we liked it!

        (This reply being typed on an amber-on-black IBM 3151 + Model M keyboard, which is attached to my laptop's docking station via serial port. Text-only logins are kinda handy when doing development work and the GUI goes titsup. Try it, you might like it.)

    2. John Gamble

      Re: Yellow and blue

      White on blue, actually.

      Observed in the wild, where the coders at my company were given a default-to-screen-colors editor (green on black), and watched as the white-on-blue style spread to everyone's startup file over the course of a couple of weeks.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Yellow and blue

        I never did understand white on blue. That combination gives me a headache and completely screws up my night vision. It's far too bright. Amber on black or green on black is where it's at (no preference), with grey on black a distant third.

        1. onefang

          Re: Yellow and blue

          White text on a black background is what this old codger likes. I read the web that way to.

    3. Roo

      Re: Yellow and blue

      Admittedly a late entrant, but I preferred an amber screen VT320 back in the day. I'm grateful to have a choice of millions of colours to choose from these days. :)

  12. Peter Prof Fox

    1988

    No email, hard drive space, cramming everything onto floppies to be sent in the post to the customer with line-by-line instructions on how to unzip (zip having to be included on the disc of course). (2018 FTP and let recipient test when their bit of the world wakes up.)

    Then the curse of the mouse. Stealing my desk and forcing me to have another cable which probably meant a special adaptor to connect to the PC. (2018 Wireless trackball)

    'Paper white' screens, all CRT cream of course, with fuzzy zones limiting tiny text. (2018 3 large solid state screens. Still deep dark blue background for coding as that's easier on the eyes at night.)

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: 1988

      Then: De-fluffing your mouseballs and getting all the crud out of the rollers.

      Now: Not doing that. Admittedly now you need to change the batteries every few months.

      1. BostonEddie

        Re: 1988

        "Then: De-fluffing your mouseballs..." Hey--I did that yesterday!

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: 1988

      No email in '88? Where were you? RFC561 was 1973, and RFC733 was 1977! By 1988, email was normal enough to be on business cards.

      1. John Gamble
        Meh

        Re: 1988

        "By 1988, email was normal enough to be on business cards."

        That very much depends upon the environment. I recall in the 1992ish era a recruiter, seeing my e-mail address on my resume, asking if it was actually useful (at the time, not much; all my contacts came via phone. Land line, of course).

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