Re: "Et tu Bruté"
It's "ensured", not "insured".
Are you sure? I think OP was going for "assured".
The hacking world's summer camp has ended. The last of the Black Hat USA, BSides Las Vegas, and DEF CON attendees and organizers have now left Sin City after a week of lectures, networking, and partying. What unfolded over those seven or so days will have knock-on effects for years to come – not just from researchers and …
"I WILL not let this happen again. However if you no longer feel I am the man to defend you, my community, then I will leave. I suspect much of my team will leave too but….plus ça change.”
That's not an offer of resignation, that's a threat that things will be worse if you push him out.
This is just going to continue - given that the country insists that it is every Americans right to walk around armed to the teeth (Stephen Paddock was doing nothing wrong until he started shooting, it was all legal up to that point) then the only way to enforce every Americans right to bear guns is going to be to search everyone, all the time. You see it more and more - land of the free indeed.
search everyone, all the time
whats the point if theyre allowed to have them?
"hey you! freeze! we're going to search you"
"ok"
"whats this?"
"my glock ..... my Smith & wesson , .... my HK ... I have the right to bear arms , open or concealed carry"
"ok , just dont shoot anyone...... unless you have to"
Have always hated conferences in Vegas. The company-enforced 12 hour flight in coach (or longer when the travel dept tells you its $100 cheaper to take a 3 hour layover in Chicago), the jet lag, the half mile walk to a 7am breakfast in a aircraft -hanger -sized basement, the 10 hour days in a dark presentation hall, the false bonhomie of corporate drones trying to pretend they are natural entertainers up on stage. OK I have seem some pretty cool presenters over the years I admit. And enjoyed some cheap shopping. But this year my room was entered twice by staff (whose?) delivering branded corporate bumf such as T shirts and coffee mugs during my absence. And the hotels jam you with "resort fees" on top of the room rate.....but then they dont send you the email invoice you were promised to avoid the queue*** to check out,....so more unnecessary chasing and paperwork to get that money back, even though the room was paid for in advance. And now this......
*** more accurately, the hotel avoids paying the wages to staff the front desk sufficiently
but then they dont send you the email invoice you were promised to avoid the queue*** to check out
What the hell is the point of checking out?
Why cant we just post the key though a letterbox in reception?
What the hell else could be involved?
Greg Davies does a good standup routine about this.
You could hold the next one in Australia.. We dont have any of those sort of probl... oh, umm, never mind, its probably safer and more secure over there. The laws of mathematics get overruled here and you have the right to have the government do whatever it wants to you. without complaining.
News of hotels forcing inspections because you have a Do-Not-Disturb sign is sad to see. Its another sign that the T's have won. They've made us all afraid. When I stay in hotels, I always put the sign on the door. Why???
1. Typically you don't want to be disturbed, especially if you're with your SO. You can get towels / supplies at reception or from staff in the corridor...
2. Security: When you're on the road sometimes you're forced to take whatever you can find, and some hotels you can't trust. Especially the safe, if the room even has one. They're always bypass-able for hotel staff, which breaks down trust. If only the manager has access maybe, but typically they don't want those types of call-outs, just the congratulations!
3. Hotels are noisy. Often you're woken up at 4am by idiots leaving for the airport holding a conference call outside your door. That breaks your sleep patterns, and means you need to sleep-in longer. But if you happen to be in the corner where the room cleaners start, they want in way too early!
Most hotels will attempt to enter a room after a period of time regardless of a do not disturb. This is usually 48-72 hours. Mostly to make sure someone hasn't died (not as infrequent as all that for big hotels) or some other issue.
That said, they should still knock first...
"Most hotels will attempt to enter a room after a period of time regardless of a do not disturb."
Yes, but in the hotels I worked in as a youth, this only happened if the hotel was unable to contact the person in the room after a lengthy period of time (48 hours, where I worked). If the front desk called and the person answered the call, that would be the end of it and no inspection would take place.
"They've made us all afraid."
Not all of us. I don't fear terrorists even a little. What I do fear, though, is what those who are afraid of terrorists do. Fear, after all, makes people stupid and belligerent.
So, I guess I take that back. They've made me afraid as well, just indirectly.
that the hotel was being coerced into this by an, ahem, third party organisation. Getting hands on the guests tech, know how, and data on threats and vulnerabilities early...
If the hotel has become complicit in what could amount to espionage the event should move regardless of logistics challenges arising.
If you follow some of the twitter and facebok posts on this conf, there are a LOT of stories from DefCon contributors basically saying unless you bring your own additional security hardware, anything mounted to the door is bypassable from ourside, or can be pushed out by 100lb weaklings.
I've been exposed to a whole new Amazon marketplace... of "essential" door security doodads!
Defcon attendees use Facebook????
The door security latch can be defeated so why use it at all????
This gets less and less credible.
The device on the economy hotel door I used only two weeks ago could not be disengaged from outside - the clearances and design made that quite impossible. Shenanigans.
Of course the door can be forced with the metal security latch engaged. But all these stories are of people "walking in", NOT kicking in the door and taking the room by storm.
I've seen hotel doors with a big knob to double-lock the door, that make a big "thunk" when they are turned, and that have absolutely no effect whatsoever.
However you need 2 people to test it - one to use the keycard from the outside and one on the inside to lock it. So no-one ever ever tests it.
This is typical security theater, I assume its the same everywhere.
American hotels all down the east coast of the continental USA and the Canadian ones I stayed in in Toronto and Grande Prairie, Alberta all have those twist-to-lock bolts, but *also* have a hinged metal device that replaces the old-fashioned chain. It is often difficult to engage because it has been installed with tight clearances but once snagged over the ball-ended spike on the door it will prevent the door opening more than an inch or so.
To break in past one of these you could either force the door to break the latch off, or you could cut through it with a cutting wheel or sawzall. A correctly proportioned pry-bar could also be used to deform the latch until it snapped I suppose.
None of these options would qualify as "just walking in unannounced" in my book.
Now I've never been to Las Vegas, so I don't know if their hotel room doors are fitted with what seems to this traveler to be a ubiquitous standard in the industry, but if they don't, why would anyone "hip" to security concerns stay there?
You are right that there is security theater here. I'm becoming more convinced by the minute that there were actors chewing the scenery on both sides of the check in desk.
"[...] hotel giant decided that if someone has a do-not-disturb tag on their door for more than a couple of days, a search has to be made. In other words, if the maids can't be allowed in to clean up and clock any assault rifles and grenades, security guards will do the latter for them – whether guests are present or not."
According to the hotel the maids will not be going through the guests' belongings. However, that makes little sense as someone could simply hide their gear and allow room service to come in.
Also, the policy wouldn't catch anyone who manages to smuggle gear into the room before the deadline of "a couple of days". Paddock had a lot of gear, but could have done with much less. So "a couple of days" to avoid a "stockpile" is nonsense.
More TSA-like feel-good 'security' measures. Much less expensive than installing sensors on the window panes to detect someone breaking the glass, though.
"According to the hotel the maids will not be going through the guests' belongings"
That is exceptionally likely to be true (it's true of 100% of the non-scummy hotels in the US). If a search is to be performed, it won't be the maid doing it. It will be security.
..... whenever So Friendly Protective in Novel Flights
Does Mad Genius Tread and Thread the Halls of such Hotels for Las Vegas, or does it just Often Occasionally Visit Such as be Filthy Rich Desert Cities Countenancing Cloning of Future Citadels?
That would make Nevada an AIKlondike Destination and Virtual Port for Universal Command with Remote Control Leverage in an Advanced Autonomous Anonymous Direction ....... with Future Current Presentations Generating Powerful Machinery for Immaculately Sourced Energies to Exercise and Export. ...... Show and Share. ..... and Dare Win Win All Ways, Always ...... which you will have to imagine immensely to believe is easily possible, for such is Certainly Classifiable as COSMIC Almighty, given All of the Nothing that IT can't do for you and/or to you.
Other would also agree it be possibly quite psychotic and psychopathic too. Tread the boards carefully there, for that is a'marching downhill into the wild side of life and that is deep treasure and darker secret territory hosting escapades and posting surprising successes there.
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Troll, troll, troll, troll... .... Anonymous Coward
Are you so sure IT is not for a Succession of Stealthy RATs, AC? Trialing and Trailing Troll Bait on Phisher Folks' Chum Lines?
With Zero Attack Vector Possible for Defence, how would One be Perfectly Protected against Sublime Exfiltration of Multiplying State Top Secrets? ...... and Extremely Sensitive Compartmented Information? ........ for a Greater AI's Grand Exclusive Executive Intelligence Use. ..... after all, Perl before Swine would be a Total Loss Markup whereas Whenever Initially Known to an Influential Few is the Field Absolutely Controlled by an even Smaller Elite Grouping of Better Informed Beings.
Who/What rocks the Boats you are Travelling in?
@AMFM:
There was a time in the *past* where the mob had a huge influence in Vegas, and there is little question that the "What happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas" expression *probably* came out of their blackmail habits. I'm not so certain that we're dealing with the same mentality in whatever security theatre is running Ceasars. I'm inclined to agree with the "We had some shit happen, so now we have to be SEEN to be DOING something" class of theatre.
As for why Vegas, well, it is on one of the more solid portions of that section1 of the continent. I suspect that in the zombie apocalypse, it will be quite well defended and, other than starving to death, rather well defended.
1. It is still however quite prone to earthquakes, relative to, say, the lower portion of the Canadian shield, or, say, Cincinatti.
Inconvenient having to find 280 dollars in paper cash to get in. Every single last one of the decent-sounding talks were already full (or huge hour-long queues I didn't want to stand in) and the ones I actually could get into were mostly either disappointingly broad and uninformative or the opposite micro-detailed and hard to understand if outside your speciality.
Having said that. I did get into the NSA guy's presentation but no surprise they don't let him blab any actual secrets so just listening to him moan about the Russians basically. Badge was good I have to admit, and the car hacking area.
Not Defcon's fault but the pathetically weak British pound meant paying for things in dollars in an already expensive town was hard work - once I realised beer was ten quid a pint I abandoned any thought of attending their parties. Finally, Las Vegas is a horrid cluster of over-decorated concrete boxes which you daren't go outside of because the brutal climate will kill you.
The event's moved to the Bally's hotel for next year, likely because of all the anti-customer shenanigins.
"next year people will vote with their feet and steer clear of Las Vegas and its hotels"
I've already decided on this. Not just "next year" or just for hacker conferences, but at all. Vegas is one of my favorite and most frequent destinations, so this sucks, but I cannot support the behavior that the casinos are engaging in.
Given that it is Nevada, and certain things ARE legal in that state, having "Maid Service" and a DO Not Disturb sign in entirely reasonable.
I don't think that those "Maid Service" employees are there to inspect your room as it were, but to provide other "services". I understand that this type of "Maid Service" is quite expansive though, and might not work out too well on expense accounts.
Every room I have had in Vegas for umpteen years has had a solid mechanical lock on the door. The sort thats a clasp that folds over a metal knob on the door so it cant be opened from outside, but can be opened an inch or so.
I assumed everyone used them when they were actually in their room...
jon
@ Jon:
If you're willing to absorb the penalty you will likely be nailed with, have the SO engage that while you're in the hall. Use your card to unlock the bolt, take two steps back and give the door a good solid kick. You will then understand the utter uselessness of those cute little chains and or slidy loops of white metal, that have been plated in brass like finish.
And then have the SO claim you "walked in unannounced" presumably, if this is for re-enactment purposes.
I guess the next phase of this line of reasoning will be that these "security experts" believe that if a defensive measure can be defeated, one should not deploy it at all.
I wonder what they used to protect themselves from bad actors while they were Facebooking their outrage? I mean, they couldn't have installed the FB app on their phones, right? FB in notoriously "leaky" according to Mr Snowden.