back to article The butterfly defect: MacBook keys wrecked by single grain of sand

Apple's butterfly keyboards can be thwarted by little more than a speck of sand. This is according to do-it-yourself repair guru Kyle Wiens of iFixit, who bemoaned the sorry state of the Cupertino idiot-tax racket's laptops in an analysis yesterday on his company's blog. Calling out Apple for its shoddy craftsmanship, Wiens …

        1. Peter X

          Re: black LED

          I was going to try to explain a sketch with Paul Whitehouse painting light bulbs black... however I couldn't remember it, but the whole sketch (and indeed this comment) is wildly off-topic anyway.

          But it's Friday and it's a funny sketch: https://youtu.be/86uuxCzNOI0

          The light-bulb bit is just before the 2 minute mark but you're better watching from the start.

          BEER TIME!

          1. Giovani Tapini
            Trollface

            Re: black LED

            And I always thought Black LED was for making Victorian fireplaces look nice...

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Apple are shit nowadays

          "We ended up lighting it up using white LEDs, and he was perfectly OK with that."

          Why didn't you just specify the panel as having an area of e-ink so you could "Light up" the area in black like he wanted? Then you can let him explain the cost implications to the bosses.

      1. I am the liquor

        Re: Apple are shit nowadays

        Cook, Ive, they're all just following the course laid in by Jobs. It used to be said that Steve Jobs cared passionately about Apple customers, from the moment they walked into the Apple store, all the way to when their credit card payment cleared. Apple products are designed exactly the way they need to be to attract buyers. Long-term usability isn't really a consideration. Given that job description, Ive is doing it pretty well.

        1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

          Re: Apple are shit nowadays

          Absolutely. "All I care about is that it looks incredible for the five minutes it takes the customer to decide they want to buy it." is what Steve Jobs used to say to answer any criticism of form over function (a colleague of mine in my Apple days had the dubious honour of working on a project that Jobs cared a lot about, and the quote came via him)

          Everyone blaming Apple's obsession with "thinner, lighter" on Jonathan Ive is missing the point.

          It's not aesthetics, it's logistics.

          The downside of super-cheap Chinese manufacturing is that Apple has to air-freight a considerable amount of its production from its place of manufacture to the places where the customers are.

          Once shipping costs become a considerable part of your cost of goods sold, you look into reducing mass and volume, because mass and volume are the two variables that contribute most to air freight costs.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Apple are shit nowadays

            @ Kristian Walsh; I genuinely can't work out if this is satire or not. Weight might be an issue for cheap items, but do you seriously believe for a minute that- relative to the high value of the iPhone- shaving a few grams or millimetres off something that is already very thin and light is going to save anything *like* the money it would cost to do so, even if you're shipping them by air?!

            I've no idea if they ship them in retail-packed boxes or OEM condition (I'd assume the former), but either way the packing for each phone probably outweighs and will certainly out-proportion the phone itself.

            1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

              Re: Apple are shit nowadays

              I would suspect that the first shipments, targetting the idiots who queue outside for a phone, are air-freighted around. After that slower, and cheaper, methods will be used. Air freight is especially punishing for heavy items, iPhones, including their packaging, are rather light and non-dense therefore while air freight will be expensive compared to shipping, it will not be prohibitive.

            2. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

              Re: Apple are shit nowadays

              I did have the exact figure regarding how much the weight and size change in iPhone 4 vs 5 saved air-freight costs from someone who worked at a fairly senior level in logistics at Apple, and like you, I found it surprising. (And yes, retail boxed)

              At launch of new iPhones, Apple used to use something like 35% of all air freight capacity out if China. A staggering figure, but a company that needed ten million phones in shops in the first two weeks of sale would have to do this.

  1. Scott 1

    Lovely, seeing as I own one.

    Yes, I own one. Let the roasting begin. I probably deserve it.

    1. Sixtysix
      Flame

      Re: Lovely, seeing as I own one.

      Great idea,

      Pop it in the oven 220 degrees (200 degrees fan oven) for 45 minutes or until all the plastic is black and dripping...

      Best served cold.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lovely, seeing as I own one.

        Ironically, that'd stand as good a chance of improving things since- IIRC- sticking it in a warm oven is essentially the "poor man's reflow" for those MacBooks with faulty nVidia graphics chips that came out a few years ago.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not a desirable product any more.

    As an observer from the Windows/Android camp who is simply too mean to pay the Apple prices, I'd observe that the average product quality remains firmly in Apple's favour, as do user satisfaction figures, not to mention the profitability (and thus viability of the maker).

    Make enough different models of stuff, eventually you'll turn out a real lemon, but that's the way of the world, whether we're talking computers, phones, cars, aircraft, or just about any manufactured good. I'll wager that Apple will learn from this, whereas Microsoft seem to intentionally repeat their errors.

  3. Alistair
    Coat

    Our office Macbook keyoard is usted ecause the key is roken

    I take it that the issue is intermittent?

    I've been typing on an elitebook 8570w without s or f keys for about 8 months now. I'm rather sure that my speed has dropped off a wee bit, but my left index and ring fingers are developing odd calluses on the tips.

    (the posts are still there and the contact works -- the z hinge works, its just the little tiny clips in side the caps are broken and no longer grab the z hinge, and I'm a cheap bastard not about to pay $75 for a new keyboard.)

    1. Killfalcon Silver badge

      I sent in a correction request, mostly because I think the Scottish librarian "MacOok" is funnier.

      1. BebopWeBop
        Angel

        Pterry's librarian was a Scot?

        1. Killfalcon Silver badge

          Not the one at the Unseen University, but his cousin works in the Feegle Polytech.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There's one born ever minute

    A fool and his money are soon parted.

    1. Andy Mac

      Re: There's one born every minute

      Given the levels of household debt in western countries, it would seem that anyone can be easily parted from their money. Either that or we’re all fools.

  5. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

    The elegant and slimmer fix

    Does anyone else worry that Apple will fix this by removing the keyboard?

    1. JimboSmith Silver badge

      Re: The elegant and slimmer fix

      You're typing on it wrong.

    2. david willis

      Re: The elegant and slimmer fix

      I have to admit I’ve been waiting for the single slim block of aluminium, that is not tarnished by holes, keyboard or screen. With its illuminated Apple logo, which isn’t bright enough to be used as a lamp, meaning the whole thingis just an expensive paperweight. It seems Apple have almost managed to achieve with the 2017 MacBook Pro.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The elegant and slimmer fix

        You just described the Apple design awards award.

      2. Christian Berger

        Re: The elegant and slimmer fix

        "that is not tarnished by holes, keyboard or screen"

        But where do you display the ads?

        1. DropBear
          Trollface

          Re: The elegant and slimmer fix

          But where do you display the ads?

          It's reading them out loud to you via the built-in ultra-flat piezo speaker, in a calm, soothing voice...

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: The elegant and slimmer fix

          "But where do you display the ads?"

          The Apple logo is the only ad you need. No other products shall ever be considered. You will buy more Apple paperweights. You exist to work. You work to earn. You earn to buy more Apple.

      3. Vince

        Re: The elegant and slimmer fix

        As the new macbook's don't have any illuminated logo...

        I still prefer my MBP 2016 to anything anyone else makes.

  6. raving angry loony

    When the only solution...

    ...is to deep-six (sometimes with extreme prejudice) the corporate accountants who are obviously making bad decisions on subjects that should be left to engineers and technical people.

    Corporate accountants: destroying the world 1/100th of a cent at a time.

  7. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    But...

    It is all very well to say that the Cupertino Idiot Tax company could not be reached but as this site opten points out, {cr}Apple are nothing more than a product re-badger and make/assemble virtually nothing themselves.

    Shouldn't El Reg be 'reaching out' (crap PC term if you ask me) to Foxconn and anyone else to puts these pieces of crap together.

    Now back on topic

    I looked at getting a 2016/2017 MBP and after a while in an Apple store, I just walked away and decided to make do with my 2012 MBP which has been working perfectly for one month short of 6 years now. Ok, so at least a dozen keys don't have any lettering on anymore and the case has a dent or two but it has yet to fail me. These modern ones don't have that sort of reliability. Until that improves dramatically, I'm keeping my wallet firmly closed.

    At least with the Apple stores you can at least see, feel and use the 'tat' before you part with your money. Try doing that for anything other than what cheap 'End Of Line' crap PC-World are peddling at inflated prices that week. This is about their only saving grace.

    1. lglethal Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: But...

      Sorry Steve but you're just plain wrong.

      Manufacturers build to a spec, and assemble to assembly instructions. If your drawing/3D model has an error in it, the manufacturers are not going to know that. They will manufacture exactly what is on the drawing. Now if this was down to a manufacturer cocking up (which does happen) then you'd be right, but then a failure like that SHOULD be picked up by QA and would then be repaired or replaced. But this is quite clearly a design error - the design just cannot tolerate general dirt, dust and grit getting into the keyboard, nothing manufacturing does could generate that level of poor design.

      Apple design their parts and send the designs to various manufacturers for production who then send their parts to Foxconn for assembly. Neither the manufacturers or Foxconn are responsible for this cock-up - this turd of a failure falls squarely in Apples lap...

      (from a designer - but thankfully not an Apple one!)

      1. Kevin Johnston

        Re: But...

        Fully agree here. Many many moons ago I worked on Flight simulators and we had a perfect example of this when the Lockheed Chief Test pilot came to evaluate the work on our first C130 Sim. He sat in the cockpit and went through some basic procedures and reached up to the overhead panel and immediately failed the build.

        Apparently the drawings for the overhead panels were wrong and everyone on the shopfloor at Lockheed knew that and they fitted the panels where they should be and not where the drawing said.

      2. LeoP

        Re: But...

        The german saying for that is: "Shit ordered, shit delivered".

      3. ENS

        Re: But...Overruled?

        Yes, and no.

        Foxconn can - and do - identify elements of the design which make it difficult to build, and the guys at Hon Hai are skilled at recommending and communicating how those changes could be made.

        To a lesser degree they will comment upon maintainability, since this will affect their ability to refurbish anything that fails QA process, and will have to be passed onto the designer in terms of additional component and labour costs since yields will be lower.

        The question is whether the designer is willing to accept and implement those changes, but absolutely the manufacturer has the ability to recognise products which have design errors.

    2. gotes

      Re: But...

      Apple designed it, Foxconn just make the thing. I doubt they'd have any more to say to the Reg than Apple.

      1. jelabarre59

        Re: But...

        Apple designed it, Foxconn just make the thing. I doubt they'd have any more to say to the Reg than Apple.

        Other than anonymously whispering what a bunch of twits the designers at Apple are...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But...

      Ultimately it's clear that, in this case, it *is* a fundamental problem with Apple's faulty design, rather than the manufacturer's responsibility.

      But even if it had been, that wouldn't have changed the fact that Apple were ultimately responsible- and to blame- from the end-user's point of view. Whether they'd merely subcontracted the manufacture (as Apple do for everything anyway) *or* the entire design, that was *their* decision and their delegation of responsibility. The product is still being sold by Apple under their name.

      Apple carries the can for that, regardless.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But...

      Havent you spelt that incorrectly ?

      Instead of Cupertino Idiot Tax company

      CUpertiNo idiot Tax company ?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Macbook

    I always wondered why my colleague, who has one of these, used to smash the keyboard quite aggressively. Now I know why - it's to get around this design flaw.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Meanwhile in the real world mine has been fine since nov 2016. Another I am aware of pretty much gets used as a tray at lunch time so is covered in crumbs and has had no keyboard problems either.

    I have had problems with the magic keyboard which also has very low travel, but not quite the level of MacBooks. A blast of air sorts that out as well.

    1. rmason

      @AC

      They've copped to the problem, you can stop trying to pretend it's not a real thing and is being exaggerated etc.

      Your unit hasn't broken, well done.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        They’ve copped to a limited number being a problem, not the entire design. F for reading comprehension.

        1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

          Except that "a limited number being a problem" is a meaningless phrase without stating what that limit is, beyond listing lots of MacBook models. The limit could well be "all units of this type that we ever built" and their statement would still be factually correct. No grade for critical analysis I'm afraid..

          Previous Apple recall and extended warranty actions have usually been accompanied with a serial-number checker that tells the customer whether their product qualifies. Tellingly, there's no such detail in this one - it just lists basically every model that has featured this keyboard design (see for yourself: https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro/ )

          It's a flawed design, not a manufacturing issue. They effected a remedial solution with the "v2" keyboards, but can't do much more as they've painted themselves into a corner by the rest of the design requiring such shallow key travel for the device to close properly, so we won't see a better design until they redo the whole casework.

  10. John70

    Wonder when they will change the keyboard to a touch screen so there is no more of these pesky mechanical parts.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Like an iPad <shudder>

    2. jelabarre59

      Wonder when they will change the keyboard to a touch screen so there is no more of these pesky mechanical parts.

      Why bother with that, when the "classic" whyPod already had a workable solution?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Masterplan

    I'm not sure Apple actually want to stay in the desktop/laptop computer game, the flowerpot killed the desktop and now the butterflies are killing the laptop.

    Funny smell about the whole thing in my opinion...

    1. jelabarre59

      Re: Masterplan

      I'm not sure Apple actually want to stay in the desktop/laptop computer game, the flowerpot killed the desktop and now the butterflies are killing the laptop.

      Flowerrpot? Is that what it was? I thought it looked more like one of those decorative trashcans you'd see in shopping malls.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No answer from Apple but how about Lenovo?

    "We would like to confirm that in the opinion of the Thinkpad designers this is the best keyboard Apple has ever produced. It's almost as good as the titanium Powerbook cases that developed stress cracking."

    1. jelabarre59

      Re: No answer from Apple but how about Lenovo?

      "We would like to confirm that in the opinion of the Thinkpad designers this is the best keyboard Apple has ever produced. It's almost as good as the titanium Powerbook cases that developed stress cracking."

      Did it have square windows? (a Stan Lee "no-prise" to anyone who knows the reference)

  13. Ken 16 Silver badge
    Gimp

    It's the users fault for using it outside of its design parameters

    It should be in either an Apple branded protective case when not in use and only taken out when in a Starbucks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It's the users fault for using it outside of its design parameters

      "It should be in either an Apple branded protective case when not in use and only taken out when in a Starbucks."

      Too many crumbs in Starbucks, and I don't mean the clients.

      It's designed for ultra-minimalist design office type environments where there's a big sign on the wall saying "For your convenience food and drink must not be brought into this area".

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