back to article Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired for opposing hiring caps on white, Asian male nerds

A former recruiter for Google and YouTube has sued the search ad beast, claiming he was fired for objecting to hiring policies that discriminated against white and Asian men. In a civil lawsuit filed in January in San Mateo Superior Court, plaintiff Arne Wilberg contended that he was an exemplary employee who received positive …

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            1. Dangerous Anonymous

              Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

              This is truthful as i speak of it. But, the ones who gave you thumbs down don't understand. I could make them understand. ---- My soul drowns in hated, anger, sorrow and i love it. I love life but, i do however hate those who wish to show or hide themselves those that are ignorance. If i have broken into their homes, and did something to their families as... Well, lets say if i did that: They would then understand how corrupted people transformed their corruptness into something they begun to love. If you watch the movie (Never Back Down 2) the guy who gets bullied thanks the guys for turning him into the person he became --- My case of saying is exactly but, i know people would ignore people who are like that but, they wait til the last moment for apologies. Yet, they'd also wouldn't know how that last moment if full of love in the corrupted who want a piece of their life. In my case: I would aim for the heart *The whole house hold*. Though, i don't think they'll catch my meaning still. This my whole illustration about what they do not know nor understand. Also the meaning of something the one who does it to them, that that'll do it do the person for the person to have "Understanding". If you read this message as second and still didn't get it i mean a meaning in "Understanding" which leaders to "Vengeance" which not meaning to make you understand the world "Vengeance" but "Will", "Freedom", "To take", "To want", "To love".... No peace in you. If you still do not Understand then good. ^*>*^-|w|

          1. post-truth

            Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

            "Anon because I am genuinely concerned we now live in a society where having a minority opinion will lead to punishment."

            Concur. Not only statutes but even common law is heading in the same direction: in the UK, harassment, ASBOs [anti-social behaviour orders] and now the demise of the dual Ghosh tests for dishonesty are perfect examples. Now, if we honestly disagree with someone in the majority or in Authority (whether because we're seen as a kook, or anti-social, or have Aspergers/ADD/whatever, or someone simply takes a dislike to us and can't think of anything specific), we can acquire a criminal record just for being viewed as, quite literally, potentially anti-social for any or no reason at all - without there ever having been a subject-matter-specific offense committed.

            (I am not commenting on reverse discrimination or any laws engaging a self-contained actus reus).

        1. Bill Michaelson

          Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

          Michael Young would find the down voting, at this date, interesting.

      1. Evak2979

        Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

        What a powerful statement. Replace white with any other color and you'll still get it right.

        Reverse discrimination much?

      2. Wayland Bronze badge

        Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

        tfb " it's because, you weren't good enough, like me"

        Well that might be the reason but we now know that there are other reasons such as you are fucking cis white male and they're not hiring those. If you cross dressed you might improve your chances.

      3. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

        Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

        "if you're white and male, like me, and you didn't get a job at Google, like me, it's because, you weren't good enough, like me. "

        Has it occurred to you that some of us don't particularly want a job at Google? Or any of the other Bay area behemoths for that matter.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've seen many claims that reverse discrimination is illegal, yet it's so prevalent that it feels hard to believe... With a bit of luck, this lawsuit will shed some light on the matter.

    1. Adam 52 Silver badge

      It is unequivocally illegal in England, as I understand it things are more vague in the US.

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/2

      1. really_adf

        [Reverse discrimination] is unequivocally illegal in England, as I understand it things are more vague in the US.

        http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/2

        I am no expert but I don't see that making the common (IME, in England) employer practice of guaranteeing interviews to disabled people meeting minimum role criteria "unequivocally illegal". This is very clearly reverse/positive discrimination.

      2. Dodgy Geezer Silver badge

        Illegal or not, the BBC overtly advertise posts with 'Whites need not apply' notices. They claim that diversity rules allow them to do this,,,,

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Europe is so lost....

        I guess the BBC didn't get that Memo huh....

    2. Wayland Bronze badge

      reverse discrimination is illegal

      No, discrimination is illegal.

      It's discrimination if you hold someone back or if you do the reverse and promote them based on sex, race, religion etc.

    3. Swarthy Silver badge

      The Joys of the American Legal System

      Discrimination ("reverse" or otherwise) is illegal, especially if you are using a quota system. However, it is a requirement to have quotas of minorities to prove that you are non-discriminatory.

      The US Justice Dept should change their motto to Condemnabitur si feceris, si non condemnabitur

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My wife works HR for a subsidiary of a well known global engineering/automotive form, under a VP who is always pushing to "get more women" into the engineering positions that open up and always has to short list any female candidate, n matter how unqualified. The problem mainly being that there just aren't that many women in the talent pool for those roles, and those that are frequently don;t want to do the travelling required by the position. To the VP, though, "diverse" means hiring more women, and that;s what she's going to focus on.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whatever happened to the idea of hiring the best person for the job no matter whether they are white, black, brown, or little green men from mars.

    Is it any wonder that companies or at the start of the downward slide because the non discrimination targets will never get the best workforce, only a mediocre one.

    1. GrumpyOldBloke

      Start of the downward slide. Google and YouTube are poster identities for that sentiment.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        "Start of the downward slide. Google and YouTube are poster identities for that sentiment."

        You're forgetting MICRO-SHAFT - I bet they've got the proudest "diversity" claims of them all (and the crappy products to show for it)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I worked at Microsoft and thought the people were very good at what they did. Most of the technical staff were white males and MS certainly tried to hire more women and minorities; but, the available talent pool is only so big. The women working tech positions at MS were just as good as their male counter parts. However, I did notice the first level managers tended to be heavily skewed to females. Maybe as a way to get better diversity numbers?

    2. tom dial Silver badge

      "Whatever happened ..."

      The managers of HR and PR - cost centers both, by their nature - gained hiring control authority over managers of the likes of product development, which are at least intended to be profit centers.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Boffin

      Whatever happened to the idea of hiring the best person for the job no matter whether they are white, black, brown, or little green men from mars.

      The last two jobs I've been hired for have been "blind", on the strength of my work but without meeting in person. Indeed, that's the only way I've been recruited to anywhere this century. Far-and-away the best paid was when I was recruited by a boss of an entirely different race to my own (as confirmed later when we met face to face), in a different continent to my own.

      I have no doubt that this "blind" recruitment is helpful in overcoming disadvantage.

      After starting the job, I had to fill the diversity monitoring paperwork. I'll cut&paste my blog piece rather than link to it and reveal my identity too clearly.

      -------

      My recent recruitment to $bigco was, as close as possible in the real world to a perfect case of no-possible-race-discrimination. That is to say, none of the folks who made the decision ever met me in person, and I never mentioned my skin colour to them. They know they’re employing [an expert in $foo]: we discussed that at length. But they don’t know my ethnicity.

      Of course they can google, they can make a guess. So can I, and my manager’s name strongly suggests that he’s from a very different racial group to my own. So neither of us can be accused of favouring our own kind (unless one of us has made a wrong guess about the other).

      Now part of the documentation they expect[1] from me is a racial monitoring form, so they can “prove” they … erm … don’t discriminate. It lets me choose from:

      White

      Black-Caribbean

      Black-African

      Black-Other

      Indian

      Pakistani

      Chinese

      Bangladeshi

      Other (please specify)

      Right. One category for white – the vast majority, encompassing warring catholic/protestant communities, and presumably other groups having significant tensions like jew and arab. Not to mention what the ‘merkins call “hispanic”. By contrast, no less than three different categories for black based on their history rather than their ethnicity, and three for south-asian based on country of origin. Seems to me offensive both to the white majority and to the minorities – both white and non-white.

      I want the option to describe my race as “human”. But that’s not Politically Correct. Bah, Humbug.

      [1] Or rather, that the Political Correctness Police expect of them.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        "I want the option to describe my race as “human”."

        I do that. mark 'other'. write in 'human' where it asks you. or leave it blank.

        1. Ben Tasker Silver badge

          > I do that. mark 'other'. write in 'human' where it asks you. or leave it blank.

          I've always tended to tick "Prefer not to say" for every question where it's an option.

          I know these questionnaires are well intended and supposed to help the company, but something's gone horribly, horribly wrong where companies are asking employees about their race and sexuality to ensure they're diverse enough.

          Well, that, and I hate filling out surveys and the like. I've never understood colleagues who look forward to their appraisals either. Don't think I've ever had a negative one, but I still hate all the paperwork and odd questions (name something you enjoyed in the last year) that goes with them.

          Meh, maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy, but I just want to turn up and do my job

          1. Jos V

            Re: ticking the boxes...

            yeah, I get company surveys too, which say it will be totally anonymous. Then again I'm the only employee in the country here on my cost center...

            I guess it would be fun to read the outcome of country X evaluation though.

            As for race... After half my life as an expat.. I'm not so sure anymore :-)

        2. FrankAlphaXII

          I always write High Elf unless I'm feeling really nitpicky and I'll give the full human taxonomic description from Kingdom on down to species. HR departments fucking LOVE me about as much as I love a root canal with no anastethic.

          1. James 47

            > much as I love a root canal with no anastethic.

            If your tooth is dead there's no need for anaesthetic

      2. DropBear Silver badge

        "I'll cut&paste my blog piece rather than link to it and reveal my identity too clearly."

        To respect your wishes I'll address you as "Dear Anonymous Coward". Unfortunately, I have to follow with "...I hope you are aware that Googling just a few words of that identical piece of text leads straight to your blog and 'about me' page, with your full name on it". 'A' for the effort, 'F' for the execution...

        1. Nick Kew Silver badge

          @DropBear

          To respect your wishes I'll address you as "Dear Anonymous Coward".

          Thank you, but there was absolutely no need for that. The reason for anonymity was that, in my judgement, it seemed entirely appropriate to what I was writing that you should read it "blind". If you read it before googling for the origin then my anonymity served it's purpose. If not ... well, there's no compulsion to play along.

          And yes, I was aware as I wrote that a reader could probably identify me (only probably, because I couldn't be arsed to verify it for myself). After all, I even mentioned the possibility of googling me in the text!

      3. Kabukiwookie

        I want the option to describe my race as “human”

        This. I don't care if someone is whit, black, yellow or green. If you're competent you should be hired. External features do not dictate competency.

        Having said that, where we should focus on is ensuring there's equal opportunity.

        Having been actively been discriminated against has put certain communities with certain external features economically behind other communities.

        This should be rectified with free (tertiary) education and healthare for all, which gives people opportunities.

        Natural human behaviour should fix the rest.

      4. gnasher729 Silver badge

        I _once_ was asked to identify myself that way. I picked "Other (Rhinelander)" And if everyone _ever_ dares questioning this, I will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That has only ever happened rarely. People tend to more comfortable with people of their own social, economic, racial and or gender group at work. So, in a majority white male dominated society employers, mostly white males, have tended to hire white males. This may not have even been a conscious decision, in some or many cases, but I can guarantee you that white males have been hired because they white males and not because they were more qualified or even equally qualified to a woman or person of colour many times. So, how do we change this inequality without making hard changes to hiring practices?

    5. gnasher729 Silver badge

      "Whatever happened to the idea of hiring the best person for the job no matter whether they are white, black, brown, or little green men from mars."

      You don't want the best person actually, but the one that offers the biggest improvement to the whole team. You should identify the biggest weaknesses in your team, and someone who improves these weaknesses is more valuable than someone who is really strong in areas where your team is already strong.

      So I think that with everything else being equal, making your team more diverse will be an overall improvement. With everything else not being equal, you should hire whoever improves your team most, and other qualities may very well be more important than diversity. Not interviewing certain people means you lose out on a chance to get the best team.

    6. Wayland Bronze badge

      "Whatever happened to the idea of hiring the best person for the job no matter whether they are white, black, brown, or little green men from mars."

      What if you hate blacks? You should put that in the advert; "To meet our ethnic purtity target we are only hiring white men"

      1. DropBear Silver badge

        Exactly. I don't care what you think you need to "improve your team", if it leads to excluding people based on something that they inextricably are instead of something they learn you deserve to be in deep legal doo-doo.

    7. MGJ

      Because they don't; or are you somehow claiming that only dumpy white or Asian males are capable of engineering? A workforce that reflects society better is also likely to be better for the company. An engineering example; palm print recognition used to be excellent at differentiating between white male subjects but rubbish when it came to black palms, and black women in particular. I wonder why that might have been?

  4. Daggerchild Silver badge

    Won't somebody think of the....

    I remember a lady programmer telling me about how she had to fix the walks of a game's female characters, because the blokes had no idea the hips worked differently.

    Then there's the facial recognition programming team that totally forgot faces weren't always white, or gorillas.

    Is a team made entirely of $X really convictable of discriminating against $X?

    1. GrumpyOldBloke

      Re: Won't somebody think of the....

      That depends on where the pressure to discriminate against $X comes from. A team is not an isolated entity, nor is a corporation. How internal and external influences are handled may suggest fairness, biases, discrimination, stupidity or something in between. With enough pressure a team will act against its own best interests even if that limits long term survival. We see this in the lifecycle of every major corporation.

    2. find users who cut cat tail

      Re: Won't somebody think of the....

      How on Earth are these examples of discrimination -- as opposed to people doing dumb things because they are not good at their jobs?

      If a little green alien from Mars groks human anatomy and is competent, he/she/it/whatever can animate female human hips and does not even need to be human (female or otherwise). Do we need dogs to animate dogs and fish to animate fish?

      Sure, being of specific species, gender, ethnicity, social group, ... can automatically bring some domain specific knowledge others have to (and can) acquire. If your identity is your main qualification you are pretty much unqualified.

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        How on Earth are these examples of discrimination -- as opposed to people doing dumb things because they are not good at their jobs?

        HR types and SJW's only count faces and body parts/types. It doesn't matter how qualified they are only that they meet some minimum standard and allow a checkbox to be checked off.

    3. Dr Scrum Master

      Re: Won't somebody think of the....

      I remember a lady programmer telling me about how she had to fix the walks of a game's female characters, because the blokes had no idea the hips worked differently.

      What have those blokes been looking at all these years?

      1. poohbear

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        Did the pregnant women walk differently to the non-pregnant ones?...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        What have those blokes been looking at all these years?

        Two words: jiggle physics.

      3. 404 Silver badge

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        'What have those blokes been looking at all these years?'

        Whoosh... I'm thinking game programmer's video entertainment doesn't feature *any* women walking anywhere and basements aren't known for their window views... Just saying. lmfao...

      4. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        "because the blokes had no idea the hips worked differently."

        That's a reasonably controversial statement in biomechanical circles.

        Still, wouldn't go mentioning physical differences if you work at Google, that ends badly.

    4. Nick Kew Silver badge

      Re: Won't somebody think of the....

      I remember a lady programmer telling me about how she had to fix the walks of a game's female characters, because the blokes had no idea the hips worked differently.

      Was she really a programmer? Sounds more like a visual/arty kind of person. Yeah, OK, she could be someone who wears more than one hat, but really! How many programmers do you suppose give a d*** about the accurate depiction of the gait of cartoon characters in a game?

      OK, I expect having someone with her eye for detail probably improved the eventual game. Diversity of talents is good, though totally different from "diversity" imposed for SJW reasons.

  5. Shane 4

    More PC BS

    Can I give a little tip to any corporation out there, Hire the best person for the job regardless of gender,age,race,belief or watch your company go downhill in future!

    You end up with a mediocre workforce instead of a top one, That man or woman that may have had 10+ more years experience on the job could have been huge company growth, But instead you chose the straight out of college person with a bit of paper that has a stamp on it, With also hardly any experience just because they are ......

    To me hiring based on gender or race instead of experience and qualifications is discrimination and your company should be sued or cease to exist!

    1. Daggerchild Silver badge

      Re: More PC BS

      If you hire a 10-pack of crystal minds, you may find that hiring someone who can stop them rattling together may increase the productivity more than adding another shard.

      How do you explain that to HR though? Is HR allowed to select on personality type?

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: More PC BS

        "Is HR allowed to select on personality type?"

        Well, ENTPs probably make better engineers. I think they SHOULD! Pick a set of myers-briggs types that are ideal for the position, and use a standardized myers-briggs as part of the job application.

        THIS would get INTERESTING, Muahahahahaha! And yes, _I_ am an ENTP! But you knew that already, right?

        1. poohbear

          Re: More PC BS

          Nope, INTJs ... for coding at least.

          1. Swarthy Silver badge

            Re: More PC BS

            INTPs - Get the focus of the Introvert, the Perception to collate disparate (seemingly unrelated) aspects/projects, and all the benefits of the iNtuitive Thinker.

            1. Daggerchild Silver badge

              Re: More PC BS

              Don't forget pessimism. That's essential. Letting an optimist write code that needs to handle any errors is a terrible mistake.

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