back to article Microsoft's Windows 10 Workstation adds killer feature: No Candy Crush

Readers with good memories may recall that when Windows NT was launched, it came in Workstation and Advanced Server editions, with the former fulfilling most duties of a server. There were no limits on TCP/IP connections, for example. Just as its developer Dave Cutler intended. When, a little later, Linux vendors packaged …

Re: A thought.

Surely your client should be using the CTX program if they are a non profit? Heavily discounted software across the whole Microsoft product family, sometimes costing less than £20 for server 2016

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Anonymous Coward

Re: A thought.

"I assume the £35K includes the full take-up of his purchase allowance from TT-Exchange, where two core WS2016DC licences are £44 each."

Yes.

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Re: A thought.

"Surely your client should be using the CTX program if they are a non profit? "

They do, but no only does MS have some brain dead idea of how many cores = "a tradional unit of processor" which seems to use a formula that costs you more money for the same unit of computing power, but the core count means that what was available under the program isn't licenseable anymore witout aditional full cost licenses.

To me it looks like the MS cores per license doesn't match with the reality of the number of cores in a "main stream" processor and appears to align with an entry level processor. So if you buy a main stream processor now, you need more core licenses.

This will get worse as you can't keeping adding full speed cores to a CPU, the speed goes down as you add more because of the TDP limit, so the ratio of horsepower : core falls while the number of licenses required increases.

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Re: A thought.

"I'm guessing that only a few businesses running open source use 1,000-CPU desktops."

...Yet.

The size and power consumption of ARMs means that stuffing fifty to one hundred plus a suitable GPU in a SOC the size of an existing intel socket and a 70W TDP should make sense for most use cases.

Interestingly I'm seeing grumbles that ARM's licensing fees are too high. Perhaps MIPS time has come.

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Re: I have a Fujitsu Celsius R650 workstation

> BTW, normal Win 10 Pro runs fine (well, as fine as it can be said for this POS OS) on my HP z840 with two 8 core/16 threads XEON E5's and 128GB RAM.

The real question is: will it continue to "run fine" after an update to some future version of "normal Win 10 Pro" ?

The Workstation edition will support up to 4 CPUs and lots of cores, but it will cost much more than a 'normal' edition.

It seems most likely that the changes in licensing are related primarily to sales of new machines and will be restrictive on OEMs. Computers with up to 4 core (probably on 1 CPU) can have 'normal' Win 10 Home or Pro installed, but if it has more than 4 cores, or more than 1 CPU, then it _must_ be sold with Workstation edition. This will increase revenue to Microsoft, which is always the aim of _any_ changes.

A clean install of a retail version may also limit the cores in use to 4 unless the Workstation edition is paid for.

Whether this can be applied to existing machines is a separate issue. It seems unlikely that an update would cripple a computer by only running on 4 of the cores, or stop altogether, until an additional licence is purchased, but it may nag you saying that your machine would be better by sending more money to MS. Also, if (or when) you have to start paying a monthly subscription then this may be based on the number of cores that the computer has, regardless of whether it is Pro or Workstation.

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Re: I have a Fujitsu Celsius R650 workstation

>The real question is: will it continue to "run fine" after an update to some future version of "normal Win 10 Pro" ?

This has to be a genuine concern, given MS have already signalled the dropping of support and thus eligibility for (Win10) updates for some relatively recent Intel CPU families that have entered Intel's End of Interactive Support phase and so have only been receiving security updates for the Windows 10 Anniversary Update version.

Given we've had CPU ID's etc. for some years now, I do wonder if a current or future version of Win10 actually ships with a 'current' supported cpu list, hence making it very easy to turn support on and off for specific cpu's...

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Re: A thought.

I have an H760 8 core, it runs Win10, the hardware is great, the OS simply awful.

I use a mouse, not a digit, I don't need tiles, or Cortana, or Groove, or any of the other myriad of spyware that occupies that thing the pretends to be a front end for idiots with a touchscreen.

If you have average eyesight a flat, colourless UI just sucks, are you listening?

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Re: A thought.

"Micro-shaft would stop it with the CPU core limits in the OS. "

Well the limit of 256 Cores in Windows 10 Pro should cover most uses.

" NT4 had a 4 core limit (server OS also) in the base OS"

Not correct. There was never a core limit. The Enterprise OEM version supported up to 32 CPUs.

"I think you had to pay a license for additional cores"

Nope. That's now the case in Server 2016, but not before then. And if you are going to license on scalability, then these days by cores makes more sense than by CPUs.

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Re: A thought.

"For desktop and workstation, Microsoft will also, it seems, be charging based on the number of cores and/or CPUs basis. The 4 core (not CPU) will be the base price desktop OS, while systems with more cores (or more than 1 CPU) will have to pay more for the workstation licence."

No, Microsoft are not charging by # cores for Windows 10. Only by CPU type.

What they have suggested is that you will need the Workstation Pro license for systems with Intel Xeon or AMD Opteron CPUs. These are server / workstation class CPUs so it makes sense.

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Re: NT4 had a 4 core limit (server OS also) in the base OS

"NT4 Server Enterprise Edition supported 8 CPUs if I remember right"

It was up to 32 CPUs in OEM versions.

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Re: A thought.

@TheVogon

You forgot to click [] Post Anonymously, but your comments are recognisable anyway.

> No, Microsoft are not charging by # cores for Windows 10. Only by CPU type.

And yet the Microsoft price list disagrees with you:

"""Update: An OEM price list shared with me by a contact shows the list price of Windows 10 Pro for Workstations (up to four cores) is $144; for more than four cores, $214."""

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-may-have-price-increases-in-store-for-windows-10-pro-workstation-win-10-downgrade/

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WTF?

Delete?

The first thing I do is look for the crap that an update adds and organise its deletion. Groove has still survived for the moment as a reminder of what I really do not want - ever. The problem is the level of agro that is needed and the time it takes to clean out the cruft

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> Linux vendors packaged their distress into "Workstation" and "Server" editions

Lol I'm still laughing at that unfortunate autocorrect typo.

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Anonymous Coward

Stil no good

You can't remove those [redacted] tiles short of running the core version.

MS lost it with Server releases after 2008-R2. Downhill all the way after that.

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Re: MS lost it with Server releases after 2008-R2

What do you have against Server 2012 R2?

I'd say MS lost it with Server 2016 and Windows 10.

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Re: MS lost it with Server releases after 2008-R2

"What do you have against Server 2012 R2?

I'd say MS lost it with Server 2016 and Windows 10."

What do you have against Server 2016? No TIFKAM by default is great.

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Anonymous Coward

What Microsoft should have done

Install StartIsBack so the classic Start menu is shown on a fresh install of Windows 10.

Enough with the tile monstrosity.

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Re: What Microsoft should have done

Or http://www.classicshell.net/

Been my goto since MS moved into the glitz.

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Re: What Microsoft should have done

@elDog: sadly, Classic Shell is now abandoned by the author. M$ keeps changing the OS so quickly he couldn't keep up, so he finally gave up.

I don't blame him, mind you. But I despair for the day I have to return my WX system to its normal non-operating configuration. Fortunately it's just a test system, I rarely need to actually interact with it.

The last version of CS is still available for download, last I checked.

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Re: What Microsoft should have done

I use Classic Shell with Windows 7. It's the Start Menu upgrade we should have seen in Windows 8. Two version numbers later, the Start Menu keeps getting worse, not better. (Like most everything else in Windows.)

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Re: What Microsoft should have done

The last version of CS is still available for download, last I checked.

And it will presumably always work as well as it does now on Windows versions prior to 10, which are the only versions of Windows that even approach being usable. It (Win 10) just keeps on getting worse and worse... ironic that the one program that made Windows 10 palatable to many people was ended by Windows 10 being what it is. Unless the open source community steps up and continues the development, of course.

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Re: What Microsoft should have done

>And it will presumably always work as well as it does now on Windows versions prior to 10

It will also probably continue to run on systems limited to Win10 build 1703 (Creators Update) or prior.

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For my mind all these games should have only been preinstalled on the Windows home editions anyway. Sure you got a few small games like minesweeper and solitaire games pre-installed on Windows 7 pro but if you then upgrade to Windows 10 Pro it adds a load more like Disney Magic Kingdoms and Candy Crush which takes up hundreds of MB of games on a supposedly 'Professional' edition of Windows.

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"For my mind all these games should have only been preinstalled on the Windows home editions anyway."

To my mind, they shouldn't be preinstalled on any edition. Minesweeper and solitaire were OK (although the WIn10 solitaire is definitely not) because they were small, they weren't ads, they were easily removed/ignored, and there were only those two.

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The biggest issue however is that Candy Crush keeps coming back. With all previous Windows versions, you could remove the games (either via a custom install, or via the "Turn Windows features on or off" applet), and they were gone for good. Not in Windows 10 where Candy Crush keeps on popping up again like an unflushable turd.

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I'm not sure they should be pre-installed at all.

One of the advantages of an app store built into the system is that it's trivially easy to add the stuff you want from the store. If someone wants to play solitaire they could easily find and add it in the app store.

Fact is, Microsoft don't have any confidence in their own store and the constant shovelling of this stuff onto PCs in the way they have been proves that.

Interestingly enough, they're putting more weight behind command-line accessible app repositories like chocolatey for installing apps.... another good idea 'borrowed' from Linux. (Just to be clear, Chocolatey isn't a Microsoft project, someone else started it a while ago, but Microsoft are adding support to make using it easier in newer versions of Windows.

It was quite nice to rebuild my PC last time by just doing the normal windows install then running a powershell script for all the apps (https://itsalwaysmyproblem.com/2017/09/09/easy-pc-rebuilds-with-chocolatey/)

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Re: What is the Cost, and any Telemetry ?

Telemetry can't be turned off according to Microsoft management.

Microsoft states that it can access any file on your system if it believes there is a breach of some law so the remote access is a definite.

Its obvious that Windows 10 has been set up as a major spyware system. The telemetry includes your IP address, the IP address of any VPN's that you are using and massive amounts of other data.

The USA government is advising people not to use Huawei smart phones because they can be used to spy on their citizens. The USA government came to that certain conclusion because it has been do the same thing to the technology under its control for many years.

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If MS understood this, then they're deaf

You will see for Windows 10 Pro for Workstations productivity and enterprise focused applications in place of consumer applications and games. This was one of the top feedback shared with us by our partners and users and we're delivering this in our next update

So basically MS made three tiers where there were two - Home, Pro, and Workstations - and then put start menu spam and slurp on Pro to make people cough up more for Workstations.

I don't think they really asked for that.

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Price of Admission

"Perhaps that's worth the price of admission alone."

And perhaps not, since the actual price is not mentioned. (Also, shouldn't it be "Perhaps that alone is worth the price of admission"...?)

Incidentally, I've been staring at the enlarged version of that heavily-tiled screen shot for several minutes. I can literally feel it draining my will to live.

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Re: Price of Admission

"(Also, shouldn't it be "Perhaps that alone is worth the price of admission"...?)"

I can avoid installing those games by simply not installing WX, so... no.

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Re: Price of Admission

On my (Windows 7) desktop I don't have a single icon. Not one.

All I look at is one of a random number of photographs on my desktop and if i want an application it's not too far away under the start button.

That's how I like it. Clean and my shui fenged out to the max.

This screenshot that you refer to is, I agree, utterly bewildering and completely unnecessary.

Remember the desktop picture as supplied by MS which was a grassy field which was being blown in a gentle breeze. That's the sort of thing that I would like to imagine that I can hear when I look at a computer screen not this tiled nonsense which convinces me that I can hear industrial sounds and white noise.

I'm off to rake some sand or something.

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Re: Price of Admission

On the login screen on this Mac the desktop picture is displayed. I have a translucent picture of a baby blue ringed octopus. If I hit F11 all windows are flung aside and the desktop is revealed is all its glory.

In my other space I have a desktop pic of a transgenic mouse embryo I made once. I find it pretty.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Price of Admission

(Also, shouldn't it be "Perhaps that alone is worth the price of admission"...?)

Look, I just want to go on the ride. Alone

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Price of Admission

On my other space I have a desktop pic of a transgenic mouse embryo I made once. I find it pretty.

Dear Mr. Muscleguy, I would like you to create some transgenic sheep embryos with flying shark DNA for me please.

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Anonymous Coward

Since there's no way out

you might all enjoy it! Feel sad or angry ? Those jokes about the year of Linux on the desktop will surely cheer you up.

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Re: Since there's no way out

It's the year of Linux on MY desktops... but so was last year! Others can stay in the Microsoft labor camp if they want, but I can't concern myself with them if they want to keep being abused and forced to service Microsoft's agenda.

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Won't lie, I spent 3 days with my Windows 10 laptop at work learning powershell commands to strip out all the unnecessary bloatware that came with it. Utterly ridiculous that a work machine has no option or choices on what to install

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Won't lie, I spent 3 days with my Windows 10 laptop at work learning powershell commands to strip out all the unnecessary bloatware that came with it.

And then when the next update comes rolling down the pike in a few months, they'll all get undone, and there will be enough changes that they probably won't work again. All your settings will have to be checked to make sure they've not been reset... it may take some time to work all the stupidity out of it once again. By the time that you do, it will be time for another update, and it begins again.

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I waited and waited for the right version of Windows 10 to come along and glad I waited as I finally went out and bought Windows 10 Professional and I am glad for the wait because I tried earlier free edtions and they were not good at all and were like 10 to 20% slower.

Today I can say with the latest Edition of Windows 10 Professional that is definitely a must buy!

Totally worth to see the speed issues are gone.

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That's a nice donation you made. Your licence key from the free upgrade is still valid and free versions would update to the latest version anyway.

And then they would install the Meltdown patch and slow down again.

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I too am waiting, maybe by 2020 or 2021 it will have stabilized some(am not holding my breath though).

To-date my windows 10 usage has been limited to about 1-2 hours(Windows 8 limited to a few minutes). I generally use Linux as desktop/laptop though I do have a windows 7 VM I do a lot of stuff in for work(even use Outlook on occasion and Visio). Also dual boot to windows 7 for a couple of games(few times a year). I have had my fair share of use of Windows 2012 though which was pretty bad, classic shell helped some there.

Agreeing with most of the others, the UI was good enough a long time ago(same goes for Linux I use Mint+MATE now (since switching from Ubuntu 10.04 LTS years ago which has maintained the same GNOME 2.x ish UI for the past decade or more for me if it can go another decade with the stable UI I will be happy).

I timed my recent laptop purchase(about 20 months ago) so I could still get windows 7 on it (Thinkpad P50).

And yes, from Linux it was only about 1 month ago that I started having to mess with systemd, what a mess that is too. Drives me nuts (I wouldn't care if I didn't have to mess with it).

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@Inachu

>I waited and waited for the right version of Windows 10 to come along and glad I waited

Enjoy the 'right' version, in a few months MS will be replacing it with another version; no one knows whether it will be an improvement or not, but what we do know MS will be doing it's utmost to get you to install it over the 'right' version...

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Anonymous Coward

>>To-date my windows 10 usage has been limited to about 1-2 hours(Windows 8 limited to a few minutes)

Was that Windows 8, or 8.1, or 8.1.1, or 8.11 or 8.11.11 or 8.1.11.1 or 8.11.111.1111.111 ?

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Anonymous Coward

I thought there was no consumer junk?

If there's no consumer junk, what are the Duolingo and Xbox icons doing on the start menu?

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Re: I thought there was no consumer junk?

Even better, it's lurking about in Server 2016, which is a bit of a pisser.

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Re: I thought there was no consumer junk?

Yeah, 'Workstation' and no candy Crush, but the presentation still looks designed for sticky little fingers at some easy learning interactive visitors centre.

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Re: I thought there was no consumer junk?

Even better, it's lurking about in Server 2016, which is a bit of a pisser.

And remind me why my sever OS has a GUI designed for a phone on it, again?

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I don't have a problem with games

Its all I ever use Windows for. Actually, its all its good for. Everything productive and useful runs on an Intel NUC under linux mint. Actually it could run on most anything but the NUC is small, quiet and relatively inexpensive.

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Joke

Re: Intel NUC

I'm just waiting for the NUC with AMD APU so I can have decent graphics.

(Yeah, I know Intel is planning on the same, but AMD have released theirs first, and wow, it works so much better than Intels options!)

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