back to article Uber: Ah yeah, we pay women drivers less than men. We can explain!

Uber drivers who identify as women make seven per cent less than their male counterparts on average, research has found. You can't blame this one entirely on Uber bros, though. A study by Stanford University eggheads and Uber staffers in the US found the difference in earnings is actually down to driver experience and usage …

Anonymous Coward

Let's see the same for driver ethnicity and immigration status

THAT would be interesting.

Not because Uber's platform will discriminate, but because the study is bound to turn up something for the high horse brigade to weep about.

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Re: Let's see the same for driver ethnicity and immigration status

Also, knowing Uber, it'd be worth finding out what other statistics they're keeping. Finding out that they've been tracking the correlation of female driver earnings to breast size, would not surprise me.

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Anonymous Coward

Women on average drive slower than men, a fact not lost on insurance companies and reflected in premiums until they allegedly changed the law.

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2.2% slower is not exactly a huge difference.

30 Mph for men versus 29.4 Mph for women... Probably equates to one extra traffic light. In most large cities the amount of traffic , lack of experience is far more likely to be a hinderance.

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Anonymous Coward

"Women on average drive slower than men, a fact not lost on insurance companies".

They also have and cause far more accidents per mile driven than men. On average though they drive far fewer miles than men which is why their premiums are lower.

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their premiums are lower.

Not in the EU ...

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premiums won't be lower for driving less miles. or they shouldn't be.

less miles == less experience == less skill

adds up to more likely to be involved in an accident, whether thats their fault or someone elses

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I thought his too - If the speed difference is only 2.2% I don't see many extra journeys be squeezed in any particular day. Maybe averaged over a whole year with the driver driving 24/7 then maybe, but I'd be surprised if even Uber drivers did that.

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Anonymous Coward

But

less miles == less time in traffic == less chance of an accident

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"They also have and cause far more accidents per mile driven than men. On average though they drive far fewer miles than men which is why their premiums are lower."

It isn't nearly as simple as you're making out...

I have only quoted part of the report but the rest makes interesting reading about who has most accidents but if TL;DR; the answer is idiots.

http://www.brake.org.uk/facts-resources/1593-driver-gender

Road casualty statistics show a big difference between men and women when it comes to safety on the roads. Men are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured on roads than women, as pedestrians, cyclists and as drivers, and at all ages. This applies not just in the UK, but in the majority of countries worldwide: globally, men account for 73% of all road traffic deaths, with an overall rate almost three times that of women.

Some of this difference can be explained by the fact that on average men travel greater distances; but studies have shown that even when this is compensated for, a striking difference can still be seen, both in terms of the number of men involved in crashes, and in the types of crashes in which they are involved [2].

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Do men tend to do more miles on a motorway per trip? That mucks up any stats about women having more accidents per mile driven. All that really matters for insurance is mile per policy year.

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less miles == less time in traffic == less chance of an accident

not quite true, less LIKELY to have an accident but still higher risk per mile.

but even that isnt black and white, because many drivers have lots of experience and are still poor drivers

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Anonymous Coward

"premiums won't be lower for driving less miles. or they shouldn't be."

No, miles should be the same the world over. They might be lower for driving *fewer* miles though.

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Anonymous Coward

"Do men tend to do more miles on a motorway per trip? That mucks up any stats about women having more accidents per mile driven"

Erm, no - no it doesn't. Miles driven are miles driven.

"All that really matters for insurance is mile per policy year."

Which is primarily why women often pay less. They drive fewer miles on average which outweighs the higher risk of them having an accident per mile driven than a man.

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"Which is primarily why women often pay less. They drive fewer miles on average which outweighs the higher risk of them having an accident per mile driven than a man."

So why did my insurance drop significantly when I put down that I had access to company vehicles?

More vehicles = more miles = more experience.

Plus

More vehicles = More experience

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Anonymous Coward

*fewer* miles == less time in traffic == less chance of an accident.

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@Jason 24

Access to company vehicles implies less time driving the insured car to me.

Multiple vehicles = fewer miles driven in each vehicle = less risk of having an accident in this car.

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@ArrZarr,

Except the car I've insured is down for commuting and business miles, 20K declared personal, 5K declared business.

It's clear to them any miles in the company cars are above and beyond what I declare as my yearly milage on my personal car.

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Anonymous Coward

"So why did my insurance drop significantly when I put down that I had access to company vehicles?"

Because you will likely be driving significantly fewer miles in the insured vehicle as you have another to use.

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Anonymous Coward

"Except the car I've insured is down for commuting and business miles, 20K declared personal, 5K declared business."

So even more reason for the cost to drop - you have a another vehicle for business miles - which are considered high risk, and are therefore likely to do doing fewer such miles in your personal car.

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@AC

If I declare 20K Personal + 5K business and no access to company cars it's £500 (e.g)

If I declare 20K Personal + 5K business and access to company cars as well it's £400.

My declaration on both is 25K miles, on the latter I could rack up an extra 20K in company cars, giving me 45K in total. The amount of time and miles on my personal are no different, yet one is a fifth cheaper.

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Re: their premiums are lower.

Yes in the EU. The gap between male and female premium levels is actually higher now than it was before they changed the law to ban discrimination. I pay about half what the men in my office pay.

If a man changed his title on the quotation form from Mr to Ms, it wouldn't make any difference to his quote, but men typically choose different cars to women, and that does make a difference.

You could buy a girly car and get a much cheaper quote, but you probably wouldn't want to be seen dead in it.

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Conversely, my insurance premiums were lowered significantly when I moved closer to work and I updated my "daily commute miles" on my policy.

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Where does one draw the line with equality then?

If women want true equality then maybe more, many more of them should be dying on the roads?

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Anonymous Coward

"My declaration on both is 25K miles"

It doesn't matter. Any declared mileage isn't going to make a difference to the cost unless you have a restricted mileage policy where it can be enforced. Which would normally be itro <5K miles a year or fewer!

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Anonymous Coward

"Conversely, my insurance premiums were lowered significantly when I moved closer to work "

Most likely because you new area had a lower risk rating.

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FAIL

"You can't blame this one entirely on Uber bros, though."

You can't blame it on them at all since they don't pay the staff - the passengers do.

Misleading quotes aside this isn't an issue of discrimination, it's an issue with how different people drive.

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If there was a Female Driver button for taxis I’d always press it. Sorry male drivers. I know I would hate to be a passenger in my car or on my bike!

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Anonymous Coward

"If there was a Female Driver button for taxis I’d always press it. Sorry male drivers. "

And I would always want a male driver. I would likely get there faster and without any inane chitchat about who some celebrity slapper I couldn't care less about has shagged this week.

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Anonymous Coward

I also would prefer to be catered to by women in all industries.

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Anonymous Coward

"I also would prefer to be catered to by women in all industries."

Lucky for you then that the catering in most industries is commonly by women. Except when it needs doing really well of course and then you would usually get a male chef.

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Lucky for you then that the catering in most industries is commonly by women. Except when it needs doing really well of course and then you would usually get a male chef.

You must be seeing different numbers than I have. Wait staff, from what I've seen, is typically split down the middle, while food prep is a male dominated career field for reasons I've never quite figured out.

Semi-sort of off topic, how is it that cooking in the home is traditionally considered "women's work" but the cooking profession is almost as heavily male dominated as IT? Surely I can't be the only one who thinks that makes no sense.

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probably because women are too sensible to work the stupid hours required by the catering industry - a friend of mine (male) has just packed in his own restaurant as his kids couldn't remember who he was...

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Joke

GlamCabs

@Nick Pettefar

If there was a Female Driver button for taxis I’d always press it.

You need to call GlamCabs...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carry_On_Cabby

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Re: GlamCabs

I was thinking ---> https://youtu.be/8rRA8GYzU8E

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This post has been deleted by its author

Solution is obvious

The solution is very obvious if you ask me. The market needs to introduce a four-year graduate course for anyone interested in this career path. Your driver will be qualified from an Uber accredited institution with a B.Sc in Strategic Transportation Mindset and Trajectory Profitability Analytics, with the option of achieving an M.Sc upon the completion of a research project and a 400k word thesis on revolutionising said industry with Block-chain technology and Synergy.

For students who are more hands-on, a 12 month unpaid industry experience internship with Uber is also available for students expected to achieve a first class degree.

The £36000 (+interest) investment will pay for itself, given that the applicants pass the 8-rounds of competency interviews and have relevant work experience, of course.

Age of enlightenment indeed.

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Re: Solution is obvious

If you want to be a proper taxi driver in London, rather than a minicab driver, it is a 5 year course, and far more difficult than a bachelors degree.

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This reminds me of a claim I heard quite some time ago that men made more on average because they worked longer hours on average.

To be clear, at the time - when I was young and gullible - I believed it, but I've since come to believe that the guy saying it was pulling numbers out of his posterior. So the difference here is that there's actually a study behind it.

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So, short version, the guy was right even back then.

Cool story!

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Independent analysis?

Has anyone not affiliated with Uber crunched these numbers? Because if the analysis is coming from anyone at Uber, it's automatically suspect.

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No pay gap

You get paid according to the work you do... women are obviously 7% less likely to provide the required service... equality of opportunity is fair, unless, of course, you are a communist/antifa/intersectional feminist/SJW idiot... reality is a bitch, isn't it?

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Re: No pay gap

It's even easier than that. Uber's algorithm ups prices when fewer cars are available, so part timers will reduce the pay for everybody while they're working.

People who work longer hours on average work when fewer other people are working.

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The Guardian awaits...

I look forward to this news item filling a few anti-male columns in the Guardian.

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So it boils down to "male drivers work harder, smarter, thus make more money."

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