back to article No parcel drones. No robo-trucks – Teamsters driver union delivers its demands to UPS

The Teamsters labor union wants package delivery giant UPS to promise not to replace any of its drivers with drones and self-driving trucks. The demand was made as part of ongoing negotiations between UPS and its 260,000 union workers in North America. The Teamsters presented the biz with a 91-page document detailing demands …

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        1. Eddy Ito

          No, I expect ships to take things from Hawaii to LA to Frisco, Seattle, San Diego, Anchorage, etc. I also expect ships to take things from Puerto Rico to Miami to Norfolk, Houston, New York, Boston, Portsmouth, etc. As it stands a ship comes into LA and disgorges it's entire cargo and departs to a foreign port to reload again even if the original load it's going to Frisco it gets unloaded and goes by truck or rail. It's much more economical if the ship can take on cargo headed toward Frisco and the ship makes a second or third stop; all the time shifting cargo from A to B, A & B to C, and so on. You see, Hawaii isn't big enough for large ships to dock there before heading back so they come to LA and another ship, a US ship, takes cargo from LA to Hawaii, because that's efficient, not. Feel free to substitute Puerto Rico on the Atlantic.

          Sure, it isn't suitable for overnight delivery but my UPS ground shipment that was sent from North Carolina, coming to the LA basin, was sent on the 19th of this month and scheduled delivery is currently the 31st. Not exactly a lot slower and consider the Teamsters also drive other trucks that deliver dry goods and myriad other things other than pseudo-mail. Besides time constrained delivery largely goes by air. A hot-shot delivery by truck is far more expensive than any overnight air package although not if your talking an Antonov Mriya - that's expensive.

          As to efficiency, there is no question that a truck which carries 2 TEU at ~ 5 to 7 mpg is less efficient than a train. A train is also far less efficient than a ship as a train that carries the 15,000+ TEU of cargo a ship can would be on the order of 30+ miles long and would burn far more fuel. Got well over a half hour to wait at a rail crossing? Neither does anyone else. You might get 1/6 to 1/10 of that on a train but that's pushing the limits of reality.

          At present, trucks make up about 20% of all traffic and more in fly-over country. They also contribute a disproportionate amount of wear and tear to the road bed and to air pollution. In the end it isn't about going the long way around, it's about using the best tool and taking the best routes. Semi-trucks are the equivalent of everyone driving an SUV solo to work where cargo ships are closer to commuting by the metro. It isn't the fastest but it isn't like anyone's socks, toilet paper, gearmotors, etc. are going to go stale on the way through the Panama Canal.

          In short, repealing the Jones Act wouldn't harm UPS but it might kill shippers like J.B. Hunt, et al. and open up the rail system to commuter traffic but that's about it. Well, it might turn Puerto Rico into the Hong Kong of the Atlantic and Hawaii could give Hong Kong a run. You know what? I'm Ok with that because Hawaiians and Puerto Ricans are good people and it's all good if they can profit by easing my commute and reducing the prices of things I buy.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Blarg

    As much as I'd like for it not to be the case... this sort of action will likely spell the death of companies that give into the demands...

    1. Updraft102

      Re: Blarg

      "As much as I'd like for it not to be the case... this sort of action will likely spell the death of companies that give into the demands..."

      It nearly did for two-thirds the American auto industry, had the government not spent taxpayer money to prevent it.

  2. Brian Miller

    Go fetch

    Didn't anybody mention to the Teamsters that drones gang aft agley? Those will be expensive, and must be fetched forthwith, mind ye.

    So a truck pulls up with X packages in the neighborhood, and Y of the drone-borne parcels must be fetched back manually. I don't see how the human factor will not be involved with this, or how more people won't be needed.

    As for country deliveries, the weather doesn't cooperate with small flying machines around here too often. It seems like wishful thinking from UPS.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    UPS is feeling the pressure

    In the U.S. both UPS and FEDEX jack their prices annually disproportionately to actual cost increases. Then to add insult to injury they fail to honor their service guarantees when they don't deliver on time. As a result there are a number of new courier businesses that are regional now but growing rapidly and being used by Amazon and other high volume shippers. UPS and FEDEX will need to stop their price gouging or face the consequences. If you check their financials it's clear they are making boatloads of money so it's impossible to justify their high prices and poor service.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: UPS is feeling the pressure

      Jack up their prices? Doesn't matter - I get free delivery. In fact, I'll pay more for an item I could get cheaper elsewhere if it has free delivery.

      1. imanidiot Silver badge

        Re: UPS is feeling the pressure

        You don't care, but the company selling you the goods certainly does. And the company selling you the stuff (and free shipping) is actually UPSs customer. Not you.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: UPS is feeling the pressure

          I was just attempting to point out free shipping is never free in what I thought was a humorous manner. But that's OK - my free healthcare will more than cover the shipping.

  4. JWLong

    In The USA,

    I want to see a drone deliver a keg of beer!

    1. Charles 9

      Re: In The USA,

      You just watch. Coming soon, the self-driving keg.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Drivers

    Our wagon driver at work is typical - thick as pigshit, OCD, paranoid and lazy (we have a sweep running on when he will go postal). But he is generally a nice guy and can take instructions so he has been gainfully employed for decades.

    He will retire soon, but the 20 and 30 year old version of him (or her) already exists - so what do we do, as a society, with such folks? As pointed out above we need to keep them busy otherwise they cause trouble. They have difficulty operating a mobile phone let alone develop software for a living so manual work is and always has been ideal.

    Driving cross country for hour after hour, day after day would bore me stupid but these folks can do it, same for production line work etc. Adapt or die is all very well, but be careful what you wish for unless you have an alternative.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Drivers

      The article commented that the drivers want UPS to: not use quadcopters or self-driving vehicles to carry out deliveries that would otherwise be done by a Teamsters human.

      When Teamsters can fly they will not be replaced by drones. Any of your drivers fly at this time?

      1. Charles 9

        Re: Drivers

        UPS has an air fleet, you know? That means pilots.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Our wagon driver at work is typical - thick as pigshit, OCD, paranoid and lazy

      I find my self making generalizations about the the type of person who would make that kind of condescending, self aggrandizing generalization.

    3. onefang
      Joke

      Re: Drivers

      "(we have a sweep running on when he will go postal)"

      Hand the sweep list to that person, suggest to him to start with those that picked the day he goes postal, then move onto the next nearest, and leave you be, you having already picked a date a long way from the date chosen. Collect winnings, and split them with him if the SWAT team haven't taken him out.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    " eliminate night-time deliveries."

    Well thats one way to put yourself out of a job guys.

    Some unions are just utterly stupid.

    What do they think will happen?

    a) Night time deliveries will stop and businesses and people will continue to use them, despite this restriction.

    b) People will move to other carriers that do, thus throwing all these people they (pretend) to protect on the scrap heap.

    This reminds me of a friends heavily unionised company. The demanded more and more money (far, far above market rate). The company said they couldn't afford it (they couldn't). They went on strike. Customers moved to a reliable, cheaper company abroad. Company folded.

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: " eliminate night-time deliveries."

      "This reminds me of a friends heavily unionised company. The demanded more and more money (far, far above market rate). "

      Maybe the same, or another - company I read about said OK to the unions, gave them the stuff that the company couldn't afford. This then put the books into loss and the boss ceased trading. Shut down the company and restarted a new one with new people.

    2. d3vy

      Re: " eliminate night-time deliveries."

      Its a very short sighted view.. they should be looking at ways to work along side the emerging tech long term rather than trying to find ways to stop it happening....

      1. Charles 9

        Re: " eliminate night-time deliveries."

        Because they know the long-term outlook is the robot replacing them, full stop. And with the job market shaping as it is, retraining isn't an option for many. Add in spouses and kids to feed, and you get a recipe for something very ugly.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm not in a union, never have been.

    To me they have a vested interest in bolstering the number of staff as members, just as here where they are demanding additional staff.

    The economic argument for that simply doesn't stack up usually which I've always felt meant my job was less secure when unions were a strong influence with my employer. I've also seen them get terrible members of staff off with warnings where those staff should have been fired for fraud, theft etc.

    In theory I would love unions because they would be "on my side" but the actual behaviour I've seen since I began working in the 90s has been quite the opposite.

  8. Peter Clarke 1

    Just one demand

    So WTF were the other demands in a 91 page document? Was it written on new-fangled parchment rather than stone or was space-aged word processing technology used??

  9. earl grey
    Trollface

    What happens when humans get dead-ended?

    They go into IT?

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