back to article So you're 'agile', huh? I do not think it means what you think it means

What if I were to tell you that we knew all the best practices for software development? That they've been proven by actual industry use over the past 25 years? But that, oddly, these practices are not widely done? Well, if you read these pages, you'd probably say: "Sound about right." Agile is much spoken of, but not as …

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          1. TJ930
            Angel

            "something to show"

            "Exhibitionist"?

            Scrum is a “pull” system. Back in the Sprint Planning, you were meant to have negotiated with the Product Owner what you were going to be working upon, and then pulled it into your Sprint Backlog; in the Backlog Refinement sessions, you were meant to have helped the Product Owner write those self, same Stories in that Product Backlog (from which you then went on to select your Sprint Backlog).

            Hence, I’m now reminded of Douglas Adam’s famous quote – no, not the one about fish or the meaning of life – if you are an ingenious idiot, I can’t help you. Sorry. Scrum isn’t idiot proof.

            That said, maybe your Product Owner and Scrum Master could do a better job as “Heat Shields”, protecting you from Management pressure? But if you’re frequently showing them good, working software in the Sprint Reviews, their trust should build and the pressure should subside.

            Maybe you just aren’t doing your Sprint Reviews frequently enough?...

          2. TJ930
            Happy

            *P*retentious *T*itles like *S*crum *M*aster.

            Yep! I’ll give you that one… I personally might have chosen different names… But have a think what would happen if instead of “Product Owner”, we just used, “Business Analyst”? Or instead of “Scrum Master”, we continued along with the title, “Project Manager”?.. What would be the result? Would people appreciate that their roles had totally changed?

            If you keep the name “Manager” in your job title, are you more or less likely to desist from telling people what and how to do their jobs?... Are you more or less likely to let the Team Self-Organise and make their own decisions?

            One could even make the case that the very name they haven’t changed (just the definition), the “Developer”, is the one that causes the most issues in Scrum! In a Cross-Functional Team, “Developer” applies to anyone doing the development work (so QA, Architect, Programmer, DBA, Basket-Weaver, whatever). This change is intentional and absolutely essential, because it’s trying to knock down “over-the-wall” and “siloed” thinking, trying instead to create a Team ethic where “everybody in that small Team is responsible for ensuring the Team’s overall success..”

          3. TJ930
            Paris Hilton

            People shared understanding and planned what to do even without formal stand up meetings.

            If you were doing it anyway, why then the complaint about codifying these approaches and putting them in the public domain? Sounds rather like those who complained about the King James Bible being written in English (instead of Latin)? Sharing it with the “common people”, eh?

            Perhaps it is because you want to keep this near-religious experience all to yourself, and continue to be treated like a deity? That Super Programmer who walks on water? ;)

            Also seems strange that you complain that time is being wasted, but then complain about a technique proven to reduce wasted time… You don’t actually have to stand for a Daily-Scrum if you don’t want to. (The standing-up part actually comes from XP!) But, if you’re struggling to keep to that 15-minute Time-box, why not try standing?.. The clock doesn’t lie.

            As regards the frequency of the “inspection”, Daily Planning does not preclude longer-term Planning – or hadn’t you understood that? The fact is, if there is some serious impediment or some exciting opportunity/Emergent Design to exploit, would meeting less frequently help or hinder your progress?..

            Remember also that a time-box is a MAXIMUM (not a MINIMUM). So, if you have nothing much to say today, you should be able to wrap up the Daily Scrum inside 2 minutes! (Almost no time wasted, and way less than the amount of re-work created by not talking to each other enough!)

          4. TJ930
            Mushroom

            Giving to short targets and schedules

            Yeah, I suspect that you understand how a Product Backlogs work. Look up the “Iceberg Model” (and Epics->Features->Stories). Sounds like your Backlog is a “Sea of User Stories”?

            But really?!.. Rigid inflexibility is better, is it? Dogmatic adhesion to a bad plan? Blind obedience in the face of overwhelming evidence because our (religious) leader said so?

            There are only 3 roles in Scrum… So, if the Product Backlog isn’t being prioritized to maximise business value, who is to blame?...

            Hint: It isn’t going to be the Framework or Methodology.

            Stronger hint: Neither is it going to be the Scrum Master or Developer (unless they are staying quiet when they know they should be saying something – see Principles of “Self-Organisation” and “Continuous Improvement”).

          5. TJ930
            WTF?

            Distributed teams, and varying skills, it's also more difficult.

            I really don’t accept this assertion. Are you seriously suggesting that “Traditional” / old-fashioned approaches are completely impervious to the effects of those same complications?.. Seriously?.. Have you been drunk typing?..

        1. Mellipop

          Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

          Look how much your well meaning comment has been voted down.

          The commentards here wouldn't know what team working is. They are, by their own proud admission, the loner in the corner. Not wishing to pair up with less experienced developers to help them with insights. Not wishing to participate in model storming sessions with customers. Refusing to refactor other people's code. Hoarding code until they have crafted an over-engineered monolithic lump that only they can maintain.

          Agile is a way to classify a number of development frameworks or methodologies that mostly exhibit the principles of the agile manifesto. They are usually founded on the theory of constraints and software is development using XP techniques.

          There is not one specific Agile methodology.

          Just like there is not one specific Waterfall methodology. Just a set of specific, clearly defined phases.

          Unlike the Agile haters here, I know when waterfall phases are needed and when Scrum will be ambushed.

      1. Deltics

        Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

        > Being forced to release earlier, can lead to bad designs, and hurried code.

        Neither Scrum nor Agile dictate release schedules. This is one of the many misinterpretations/misapplications of Continuous Delivery and Agile.

        The intent of CD/agile is to deliver incremental value in *potentially* shippable product. The keyword is "potentially". It means that the work you had delivered in that increment is correct (satisfies requirements/adds value) and valid (has complete test coverage and passes all tests).

        That is, you _could_ ship if you (or the business/customer/user) wanted to, but you only actually _would_ if the value is useful. e.g. If your increment includes the abilities to create a bunch of stuff in your system but the rest of the changes around that "stuff" have yet to be delivered then you wouldn't ship. Or you might ship with a feature toggle set to disable that new valuable but currently useless capability. Or limit availability to a pilot group to field test the UX of that increment.

        None of which alters the way you go about building that increment in the first place, i.e. the extent to which you do robust design, development and testing.

        A sprint is not a release cycle.

        1. Robert D Bank

          Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

          I think the struggle is to understand how you meld all these 'potentialities' into something coherent that can safely go through Integration and QA testing before delivery. It's like having 10 balls in the air as you juggle your options. If you have many iterations of a given piece of code along with many other teams who have another 10 balls of 'potentialities' it just seems to create a huge amount of risk, especially if documentation is minimal. Sometimes you might get lucky and others you may not. I'm sure there are 'tools' around to assist with this, but even then they ultimately require competent people to manage them with honest input to them to make them work.

          PS: I am not a developer. Just curious to understand this current phenomenon

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

        "with the Scrum Certified High Priesthood and all the related dogmas."

        Ah, yes. "The Scrum". Let's cram everyone into a single room and let JUNIOR PEOPLE get THEIR ideas heard, too. Because, as we all know, JUNIOR PEOPLE *ALWAYS* have "the best ideas"®©™ that us SENIOR and GURU level people *NEVER* think of... [or reject outright, because they SO reflect the inexperience of the person who said it].

        But, but, but, we HAVE to let the junior guys "share their ideas" because THAT way, they'll FEEL better!

        And once the 'F' word "FEEL' gets injected into the process, the INCOMPETENCE, INEFFICIENCY, and SLOPPY MANAGEMENT PRACTICES are predictable.

        I have an idea: Let's get some SENIOR PEOPLE and MANAGERS in on PLANNING a project before you start working on it, with a prototype to work out most of the problems, and then SPEC IT OUT, and if you go halfway through and realize that you need to CHANGE THE SPEC, you just *DO* it. But you won't be changing it every day, and probably NOT without approval of the design team (i.e. the managers and senior people).

        You know, like WATERFALL!!! Except waterfall doesn't have "a cool name" like Agile. Or blackjack. Or hookers.

        1. TJ930

          King Knut and the JUNIOR PEOPLE

          The tide is coming in, Knut. (Did I spell that right?)

          Yep, I have a cool, new name for the old, dead horse: "W**k**fail" :)

      3. John Lilburne

        Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

        One always suspects that they'll turn up with Thetan meters

        1. Dagg Silver badge

          Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

          We lost our last preacher (scrum master) and things actually improved. We actually got things done instead of death by standup / sprint planning meeting etc. All BS, protocol and process no work.

          We ended up calling him the scum master...

          1. TJ930

            We ended up calling him the scum master...

            Hilarious! :)) Yeah, the guy doesn't sound like he was living up to his education job description, so deserved to get the 'chop of the sword'

            Yes, we've all mistyped stuff in our time; Did you know that incompetent Developers get called "Divs"?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: We ended up calling him the scum master...

              Did you know that incompetent Developers get called "Divs"?

              Very useful. Round here they just get training.

        2. TJ930

          Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

          Tom Cruise thinks otherwise... Dzzzzt

          ;)

      4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

        "being forced to abide to some strict rules just for the sake of them often just gets in the way."

        Exactly correct. Agile, by definition, also mean flexible :-)

        1. Dagg Silver badge

          Re: The main issue are those who turned it into a sort of religion...

          Agile, by definition, also mean flexible :-)

          So how does this work when you have fixed 2 week sprints?

    1. Madness Creator

      Asshat programmers who want to go back to the good old days of taking 7 months to create a steaming pile of crap code that cant pass a basic unit test are what pisses off Scrum Masters and every single business partner.

      We are all sick and god damn tired of you ass hat programmers who want to sit around months not working on shite. Yea Agile pisses you off as you have to work. It's transparent so you cant sit around for a week with your crank in your hand watching monkey porn.

      But oh yea it's Agile that's the problem not you. Avoid that retrospective at all costs as you just might see what a POS you really are. Can't have any introspection YOU are a GOD YOU are a Java/Lunux/Ruby/Looser Programmer. Oh let is bow down and suck your ass you are so great. That goddamn methodology is the issue! I have to WORK? Screw you! do you know who I am!

      Screw all you prima donnas and you holier than thou attitudes. Turn in some unit tested code for a change that is not so bug ridden that it takes 4X the time to fix. What do you say you pay attention for a change when we ask what else you need in planning? What do you say you quit lying your ass off when you have no clue what was asked of you.

      In the meantime please keep screaming how bad Agile is.

    2. TJ930
      Mushroom

      Its a F******g disaster for everything else.

      In the "early stages" - you mean before the Monkeys touch the keyboard? Right... Here's an idea - get rid of the Monkeys! Problem solved! :)

      No, Agile - e.g. Scrum - can be applied to anything from Software Development, to house refurbishing, to self-educating Dutch School Children, to planning weddings, to refurbishing old-classic-Sports Cars...

      But we wouldn't expect you to know about all that. You're only spouting..

      :)

  1. Teiwaz

    Sounds like..

    Attending a Tai Chi class for a few weeks before slowly realising the entire class is just being taught the moves for some of the less impossibly athletic slow-mo scenes from the Matrix movies (or seems like it).

  2. Lysenko

    Something's off with this article ... I can't quite...

    Michael Cote will be speaking at our Continuous Lifecycle London 2018 event. Full details, including early bird tickets, right here.

    ... and there it is. Perhaps you could post a link to the author's GitHub repository so we can verify his credentials to lecture about coding? Or how about an overview of the last development project he personally managed to successful completion (preferably in an environment with compliance/regulatory/safety aspects)?

    I must re-emphasise the personally managed bit because we're all familiar with George Bernard Shaw's insightful dictum ("Those who can - do. Those who cannot - consult") and I wouldn't want to write someone off as a PowerPoint jockey unfairly.

  3. K

    'When does your user ever see your code?'

    Speaks for it self, and it's saying "i'm bollocks".

    Call my me a cynic, but anybody who is experienced enough to understand their users, will know they will simple ask "is that Chinese?"..

    This shite is clearly aimed at PFY's who are desperate for a mentor and guidance on how to gain experience and progress their skillset.

    1. Teiwaz

      Call my me a cynic, but anybody who is experienced enough to understand their users, will know they will simple ask "is that Chinese?"..

      An actual walkthrough meeting might actually end in a re-enactment of the famous scene from 'Scanners'.*

      * If they paid attention, which they wouldn't, I generally notice a sad look in their eyes, with a handl carefully and slowly going to a phone to call psychiatric services (or a cleric).

    2. TJ930
      Boffin

      "Code"

      Feel I ought to help you out here: "Code" means that executable stuff your computer likes; not "Source Code."

      Two clues comes from the Agile manifesto:

      i) "Working Software over comprehensive documentation."

      ii) Principle 7: "Working software is the primary measure of progress."

      Two more clues come from the Scrum Guide (if we're talking Scrum)

      i) "Potentially shippable increment" [i.e. fully merged, fully tested Code at the end of each Sprint.]

      ii) The Scrum Event 'inspect-and-adapt opportunity' known as the "Sprint Review" [aka "Sprint Demo"]

      Two more clues from SAFe Principles (if we're talking of scaling with something like SAFe)

      i) Principle 4: "Build incrementally with fast, integrated learning cycles."

      ii) Principle 5: "Base milestones upon objective evaluation of working software."

      1. Robert D Bank

        Re: "Code"

        sorry, but I think 'RTFM' (or the Agile fucking bible) should not apply to you at all because you've obviously OD'd on them and should keep your hands on the table. Original thought please, backed by practical experience and use cases that are quotable and proven.

    3. Cederic Silver badge

      re: Call my me a cynic

      You may be a cynic, but you're also a realist. This article is a lovely confirmation that I'd be wasting my time at Contiuous Lifecycle; If I want to know more about agile development I'll read Fowler, Beck, Gamma and their peers.

    4. markbick1306

      I took it as the author meaning get functionality (code) delivered to users, not literally show them code line-by-line.

  4. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Stop

    No true agile developer...

    - Is agile development not working for you?

    - No, it´s not.

    - It's not really agile then.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No true agile developer...

      It's not really agile then.

      Just like socialism/communism. Never been implemented 'properly' yet :-)

      1. TJ930
        Facepalm

        Re: No true agile developer...

        To give it its proper name, it's known as the "no true Scotsman fallacy."

        The thing that separates, for example, Scrum from the No-True-Scotsman fallacy is what's called the "End Note" in the 2016 Scrum Guide.

        "Scrum is free and offered in this Guide. Scrum’s roles, artifacts, events, and rules are immutable and although implementing only parts of Scrum is possible, the result is not Scrum. Scrum exists only in its entirety and functions well as a container for other techniques, methodologies, and practices."

        So I rather suspect that the "twits with an 'A' " who claim to have done Scrum but it didn't work, actually haven't done Scrum at all..

        If you wan't help, see either Erik Kniberg or me... I'lll be able to diagnose your malignancy in seconds.

      2. TJ930
        Mushroom

        socialism/communism. Never been implemented 'properly' yet

        I’d absolutely with you agree about the Socialism/Communism, and taking these sorts of people “for the helicopter ride.” However, the weakness in your argument is that this quip could far more easily and more accurately be applied to Waterfall! The idea that you always get it exactly right first time is rocking-horse manure…

        I’ve heard it said that Waterfall is actually an iterative, adaptive approach – it’s just that the iteration lengths are muuuuuuch longer and slower. (Typically 6 months to 2+ years.)

        So you guys send out v1.0 on (or somewhat after the deadline), it’s full of bugs, and doesn’t work how the customer wanted or expected; then – rapidly as you can (another year later) – you send out v1.1… And shortly after that, v1.2, v1.3 etc. etc. etc. to fix (some of) the bugs in the previous versions…

        So you see, proper Agile is just a better way of doing it. Less time. Less waste. Fewer pages of unread documentation… Bit like Capitalism? (Just pay for what you need, rather than being taxed to extinction, paying for ‘non-jobs’.)

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One size does not fit all and it is not all about code.

    I'm sure most organisations would love to have the sorts of systems that can tolerate an agile approach.

    But they don't.

    Also, agile is incredibly difficult to implement with an IT organisation that's majority outsourced. Even if you can do agile, your suppliers probably can't. And besides, they need a PO before getting going, which means detailed analysis of requirements

    A supplier who knows their onions won't sign up to something (especially with a new customer) unless it's carefully detailed (otherwise you get sued when the business isn't happy with the results) and procurement don't sign up to just handing out money to a new supplier without a detailed view of what they're getting in return.

    So agile is good at developing code, but that's only one part of how IT works in organisations.

    1. EarthDog

      So the solution might be more in-house IT and less outhouse IT.

  6. Mike Shepherd
    Meh

    Pay no attention to that consultant behind the curtain!

    We must always consider new ideas. (Whether there's anything new about Agile is moot). But, 2,500 years on, real progress still comes more often from persistence and hard work.

    1. EarthDog

      Re: Pay no attention to that consultant behind the curtain!

      That reminded me of this:

      https://despair.com/products/achievement

  7. Wulfhaven

    Developmestruction

    The waterfall devcycle is largely a straw man argument recycled over and over again to push more expensive talks and consultancy hours of how to avoid doing the strawman dev cycle.

    The important thing is to generate something end users like and use. What dev cycle you use to attain this entirely, and wholly irrelevant.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Someonr is getting to the reality

    And indeed the "wall" from operational teams is also more complex in some instances.

    Software put live is often under some sort of "warranty" which expires regardless of the next sprint or sprints regardless of issues arising. Financial frameworks damage this relationship regardless.

    Worries about, can I back out or fix issues arising quickly turn into issues of, I cant fix it till next week as the developers are working on the next sprint (or will escalate into arguments about what to drop from sprint) - also take a worrying turn for the brave ops manager.

    Delivering half baked sprints into customer facing systems where failure or poor user experience puts your brand on the line, while the project is trying to churn out tiny parts of large complex changes with lots of clever concurrent development.... For Agile to truly work you need to TRUST your developers to do the right thing - this is often not easy, and operational people are not always considered as a key stakeholder, particularly as their needs are often boring and not based on shiny new stuff for developers or marketing to show off with.

    Trust is a key issue, and with the usual case of transient outsourced code shops, entirely disconnected from your business, with endless cycles of change it is no wonder that larger organisations struggle, possibly justifiably, with being fully agile.

    1. Dagg Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Someonr is getting to the reality

      For Agile to truly work you need to TRUST your developers to do the right thing

      It is not only the developers. The problem with agile is you can't trust the BAs, they just come up with something fuzzy, throw it over the fence and then blame the development team when the whole thing fails as what they specified wasn't want was wanted.

      Note to BAs if you specify a gold plated turd then that is exactly what you will get. Be proper BA and actually do some real work. Find out what the business pain points are don't define requirements as a set of solutions spend some time on the non functionals. THEN and only then get the client to sign it off so what gets built has a chance of working.

      It aint rocket science, the earlier you find the problem/issue/gap the less it costs to fix and the quicker it gets fixed.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would have thought that the 'Agile' bit should be about how fast the developers fix the bugs and cockups in their code so it can go into production as bug free as possible as well as fulfilling the specifications.

    1. Naselus

      Just the inverse; it's mostly about how quickly they can introduce new bugs and cockups. Agile allows a whole plethora of new problems to be brought in weekly.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Bugs and cockups

      all get lumped together with the mantra FINS (Fixed in next sprint) only there is never enough time to do what is planned for that sprint let alone fixing all the crap that is left in from previous sprints.

      So what about the 'Fix all the crap' sprint?

      Dream on, that does not meet the right productivity metrics and as one commentator has put it, Technical Debt never gets repaid.

      I am so glad that I'm retiring at the end of next month.

      All this pissing about with (fr)agile and DevOps and whatever... All the jobs are either going abroad or will be done by A.I./Robots. Software development as a profession in this country will be dead and burried by 2019, 2020 at the latest.

  10. Chairman of the Bored

    I cannot believe I'm going to defend...

    ...some of the stuff I saw when I was is Gov't service but here goes:

    For agile to work, one needs and intelligent and engaged customer. A hint of this is found in the question, 'has your customer seen source code?' In a govt to govt context if you show source code, your PM will s#can you immediately. Why? The customer would have absolutely no clue what to do with it. I've seen projects (looking at you DHS) where turnover at the mid-level management to decision maker level was so high that teams could not get on the calendar to brief the wunderkind of the moment before he shoved off for greener pa$ture$. For years straight.

    So what do you do when your customer cannot find their own ass with both hands, a flashlight, and a radar set? Make your own best estimate of what they need... somehow get the yes-men, sycophants, and sociopaths above you to agree to a course of action.... maintain laser-like focus on those requirements so you dont piss away resources chasing buzzwords or shiny... and execute. Sounds a lot like the much-maligned waterfall, no?

    If you try to go agile you are brought into constant contact with the same yes-men, sycophants, and sociopaths. They've got no insight into whats needed - no technical ability - and are only going to demand more buzzwords and shiby.

    The actual users? Nowhere at the table in the bureaucracy. In the "as built" govt waterfall-ish process they get at least some representation because the developers usually hire some to serve as requirements leads early on.

    I'm not claiming the as-built process builds products that are optimal, cheap, or necessarily effective. What I'm saying is that its the best you can do in a Byzantine bureaucracy populated by sinecures. Going agile without having a decent customer seems like cruel and unusual punishment, and thats unconstitutional.

    That's reality. And that's why I drink and my liver shall be buried with full honors.

    1. Lysenko

      Re: I cannot believe I'm going to defend...

      ...some of the stuff I saw when I was is Gov't service but here goes:

      On a related note, I remember one govt project about twenty years ago that had failed twice (the immediate predecessor attempt being canned after burning £11M) using an early "agile" approach that revolved around rapid releases and continuous user feedback. The problem was the users weren't entirely stupid. They knew the new IT system was an integral part of a wider programme of "rightsizing" (aka "Redundancies") so they weren't exactly motivated to see it succeed.

      We did succeed though. By performing time in motion studies of what the users did, performing top-down systems analysis and then implementing the system to do the job as it needed to be done (not how the users thought it should be done). Forty percent of users redundant inside 12 months. Result. Just not the result the users would ever have signed off on.

  11. Snorlax Silver badge
    Mushroom

    By Bullshitters, For Bullshitters

    Here's my 'user-story': I had to the recent misfortune to take a couple of agile modules as part of an honours degree. Is agile what happens when you let the lunatics run the asylum? It sure looks that way...

    I have never before wanted to stab my eyeballs with a sharpened pencil.

    Instead of just doing a project in stages like any sane person, the whole thing is in a constant state of flux because some arsehole thinks that "testing starts at day one" and that risk is reduced because the customer, sorry 'product owner'/'stakeholder', is constantly providing feedback.

    Buzzword Bingo needs to make a comeback in these agile times...

    1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

      Re: By Bullshitters, For Bullshitters

      "Buzzword Bingo needs to make a comeback"

      It never went away. And of course there's an app for that. Actually few dozens.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: By Bullshitters, For Bullshitters

      some arsehole thinks that "testing starts at day one"

      and even the TRIVIAL things, like 1+1=2, MUST have a test function to verify it STILL works!!!

      if I developed test functions for EVERYTHING I wrote, the test suite would probably be LARGER than the actual code. AND, there would be no value added. Because, when testing is needed, I do that separately, then put the function in place ONE TIME, shelve the "test the algorithm" console mode program [in case I ever need to look at it, which I never seem to] and document how the function works in case someone ELSE has to work with it. No need to re-re-re-test it EVERY! STINKING! TIME! because it WORKS.

      And, if all functions (that aren't trivial) are tested in this manner, are well documented, and guaranteed to do what's on the tin, then you're fine.

      [and also assuming that the project isn't shotgunned across way too many files with way too many trivial functions calling even more trivial functions ad infinitum so you can't even see the code flow any more without having 67 files open at the same time, JUST so you can do "unit tests" on EVERYTHING]

      icon, because, facepalm

      1. Snorlax Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: By Bullshitters, For Bullshitters

        @bombastic bob:"if I developed test functions for EVERYTHING...

        ...No need to re-re-re-test it EVERY! STINKING! TIME! because it WORKS."

        bob, nobody give a toss about how YOU do things.

        You are quite a bullshitter, so in a way you'd be a perfect evangelist for agile.

      2. Crumble

        Re: By Bullshitters, For Bullshitters

        Careful, you're only one step away from "I don't need to test it, I coded it correctly"!

        To put it another way, yes you do need to re-test it every single time. If you constructed the test right the first time, it's trivial to prove it again. Then you can spend the rest of the afternoon working out why it didn't pass this time even though you DIDN'T CHANGE THAT BIT.

        1. Snorlax Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: By Bullshitters, For Bullshitters

          @Crumble:"Careful, you're only one step away from "I don't need to test it, I coded it correctly"!"

          I'm not saying you don't need to test your work.

          I'm saying that these agile bullshitters pretend to be in a constant cycle of testing, when in reality they're just spouting buzzwords...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ahh, (fr)Agile

    AKA a bunch of people who don't understand process running around in circles until something looks vaguely right? There's a GCSE in the subject - students get unlimited retakes.

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