Sign in / up

back to article Ubuntu 17.10: We're coming GNOME! Plenty that's Artful in Aardvark, with a few Wayland wails

For the first time in recent memory, there are some very big changes in the latest release of Ubuntu: 17.10. And it's not all to do with going, er, GNOME. The new GNOME-based Ubuntu desktop The new GNOME-based Ubuntu desktop (click to enlarge) This release is the first since Canonical announced it would cease development of …

COMMENTS

Post your comment
House rules Send corrections
Add to 'My topics' unstar *

Page:

  1. Dave Bell

    Tension, apprehension, And dissension have begun.

    I use Linux Mint, one of the non-gnome versions, and things look as though they could become altogether too interesting. As you have pointed out, Canonical seems able to back away from stuff that doesn't work, and Mint looks pretty good, while some projects are worrying: systemd, and now Gnome? I had to look up Wayland, and it has been around a long time. I don't understand the Jargon, and I can't tell if they have devised a whole new set of jargon or not, but I've not found that a good sign

    I just want something that works.

    10 1 Reply
    1. Andrew Newstead
      Reply Icon

      Re: Tension, apprehension, And dissension have begun.

      "Tenser said the Tensor" - damn, I'm not going to get that out of my mind for the rest of the day...

      Must re-read The Demolished Man again soon.

      3 0 Reply
    2. Barry Rueger
      Reply Icon

      Re: Tension, apprehension, And dissension have begun.

      I just want something that works.

      HERETIC! Back to Windows with you!

      Seriously, my measure of a distro is whether I can plug in a USB stick with the ISO, have it install with everything working with no extra steps, and make the few changes that I prefer (add Chrome; disable CapsLock) in under fifteen minutes.

      I'm currently liking Pop!_OS. Super easy install, and super-minimal experience. I care less about Wayland and SystemD than I do about how it stays out of my way when I actually want to work.

      2 2 Reply
      1. MrBanana
        Reply Icon

        Re: Tension, apprehension, And dissension have begun.

        "I care less about Wayland and SystemD than I do about how it stays out of my way when I actually want to work."

        I thought the same, until systemd bit me in the arse. No apparent reason. No useful debug info. No easy recovery. No reason to want a distro that uses it.

        5 0 Reply
      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Tension, apprehension, And dissension have begun.

        "I'm currently liking Pop!_OS."

        Your link is a 404

        0 0 Reply
  2. ChrisElvidge

    ubuntu -wayland -gnome3 -systemd +debian

    Try antiX core install, then add MATE

    1 1 Reply
  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    To-do item for v18

    1) get rid of stupid product names

    Bigoted Bully

    6 0 Reply
    1. WolfFan Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: To-do item for v18

      No. They absolutely, positively, cannot do that until they've used Mango Maniac or Mango Mussolini.

      1 0 Reply
      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        Trollface

        Re: To-do item for v18

        "They absolutely, positively, cannot do that until they've used Mango Maniac or Mango Mussolini."

        Jumping Jackalopes?

        0 0 Reply
    2. Captain DaFt
      Reply Icon

      Re: To-do item for v18

      1) get rid of stupid product names

      Maybe after they release Zippy Zebra? ☺

      0 0 Reply
  4. nijam Silver badge

    > A lot of companies would never have admitted that the vision of convergence wasn't what people wanted.

    And Canonical were only 5 years later than they should have been. The only thing that made the otherwise-awful Unity seem acceptable was that Gnome switched to the possibly-even-worse Gnome Shell at about the same time. Wayland has promise, but Mir never did. All of this was apparent at the time.

    3 0 Reply
  5. OtotheJ

    I wonder why it's *still* not the year of Linux on the desktop

    Perhaps the fact that as evidenced by the comments above, no-one can agree of the best distro/desktop combination!

    8 5 Reply
    1. AJ MacLeod
      Reply Icon

      Re: I wonder why it's *still* not the year of Linux on the desktop

      Nobody _needs_ to agree on the "best" distro or desktop combination, it's pretty much irrelevant... this has always been one of the major strengths of the Linux (or other OSS) desktop.

      Frankly I wouldn't use Gnome 3 if you paid me to, WindowMaker has been my "desktop" of choice for work over the best part of two decades and works better than ever... consuming a whole 2599 kB of RAM at the moment.

      16 3 Reply
    2. conscience
      Reply Icon

      Re: I wonder why it's *still* not the year of Linux on the desktop

      Having a "best" distro, implies a "worse" one, but that isn't the situation. All distros are comparable and all good, there are just choices for those who want a slightly different flavour e.g. different desktops to appeal to different aesthetic preferences.

      Looking at a screenshot of the various desktops to see which you prefer is really all that is needed for people new to Linux to choose which distro to install, they are all equally capable and you can always change your mind later as you learn more.

      2 2 Reply
    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: I wonder why it's *still* not the year of Linux on the desktop

      "no-one can agree of the best distro/desktop combination!"

      Because the best combination for you might not be the best for me. One of the good things wbout Unix-like systems is their modularity. You can either tailor an existing distro such as Debian or Fedora to what you want or roll out your own spec from Gentoo. Or you can start from a BSD base. What you don't have to do is put up with the one size fits all vendor approach.

      For instance, one of the comments usually made here is that Linux is unsuitable for older users. Well, I've just been setting up a new laptop for SWMBO. Amongst other things I've been able to take advantage of the configurability of the typical Linux desktop to choose features such as the best system font to improve the readability for her, a necessity after macula problems a little while ago.

      4 0 Reply
    4. Jim 59
      Reply Icon

      Re: I wonder why it's *still* not the year of Linux on the desktop

      "Perhaps the fact that as evidenced by the comments above, no-one can agree of the best distro/desktop combination!

      Choice is bad, and the best restaurants have only one dish on the menu, right?

      The lack of Linux desktoppery might have more to do with 3 decades of business agreements which legally ensure that every PC comes with Windows fully integrated.

      2 0 Reply
  6. msknight

    Running Mate....

    ....because Gnome 3 is more Unity than Gnome 2. So... yeah... when Gnome returns Gnome, then I'll celebrate. I had to go to something because Mint was just too far back on some apps.

    1 0 Reply
  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Five people who still care about Ubuntu

    1. Microsoft

    2.

    3.

    4.

    5.

    8 10 Reply
    1. Hans 1
      Reply Icon
      Childcatcher

      Re: Five people who still care about Ubuntu

      Actually, Ubuntu has seriously betrayed the GNU team, you know, the guyz who wrote all the CORE userland stuff Ubuntu so heavily relies on ... by giving it away to proprietary slurping scum.

      The thing is, you will very soon find out why they wanted it ... keywords: linux docker images, HyperV VM's, libContainer, Windows überbloated containers ...

      Interesting times ahead ...

      3 7 Reply
  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Looks tempting

    I don't use Ubuntu, but I think this is probably their best release so far. They're done a good job with putting the major changes in before the LTS.

    Wayland: About time. Pushing all UI through a pipe/socket was good in its day, but the desktop needs more. X11 has had its time, and they're no longer wasting time with Mir.

    There's a few cry-babies who think they can not have remote windows. Well, I guess they haven't heard of XWayland... it's the clients (on the remote) that need to support X11. Properly isolating the windows so they can't see each others display + input feels a lot better, too.

    The more distros that use it, the better it will become, because 3rd party and closed applications will have to support it.

    GNOME 3: Not my thing, but at least they're no longer wasting time with Unity. And Ubuntu's twist is a little better. Try it.

    and window buttons on the right!!!!1

    As for systemd, it's been in for at least a year - Mint, too. Didn't notice it? Sill able to use init scripts? exactly. FUD.

    Linux is ready for the desktop, has been for a while for some of us. It's the user's that aren't.

    7 10 Reply
    1. AJ MacLeod
      Reply Icon

      Re: Looks tempting

      "Wayland: About time. Pushing all UI through a pipe/socket was good in its day, but the desktop needs more. X11 has had its time..."

      So I keep hearing. Strangely though, my desktop doesn't need more anything - it works brilliantly, just like it has since the 90's in fact. I'm not quite so skeptical about Wayland as I am about SystemD though - as far as I can tell it's a far better idea and implemented far less badly; with proper, flawless backwards compatibility with X11R6 and equivalent, reasonably effortless network transparency I would be prepared to accept it. Not any time soon though... it just isn't necessary.

      8 1 Reply
    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Megaphone

      Re: Looks tempting

      "Wayland: About time. Pushing all UI through a pipe/socket was good in its day, but the desktop needs more. X11 has had its time, and they're no longer wasting time with Mir."

      About that... let me describe some of my experiences with low-level X11 coding...

      several years ago I decided I wanted a proper IDE for X11. And because NOBODY supports "virtual space", something I really like, I started on my own toolkit. still working on that one. yeah, time, money, lack thereof, getting in my way.

      Anyway, one thing I discovered early on is that the X11 protocol is _NOT_ what causes "perceived slowness" in X11 applications. In fact, my application was popping up SO fast that I was like "Oh... it's already running". I'd type the command into a shell, and *poof* it was already open, displaying the menu, etc.. When I added clipboard support, there was an additional 1/2 sec delay to do all of the messaging to and from the desktop, and I also added a nice splash screen with 3D animation, which gives you that "perception of doing something".

      But I have _NOT_ run into _ANY_ performance problems dealing with X11's communications pipe (or TCP connection). In FACT I've seen a CLEAR ADVANTAGE here, because it's CLIENT/SERVER, so you are using at least 2 CPU cores to make it work. It's leveraging multi-core, and has ALWAYS done so!!!

      The *REAL* problem with performance from X11 applications is the way the GTK's have to suck in EVERY BLOATWARE LIBRARY on the planet (cairo, bonobo, pango, yotta yotta yotta) even though maybe YOUR application only needs just a fraction of their capability. This increases load times. And *THEN* there's the "object oriented insanity" associated with things like the 'File Open' box you see in the gnome world. Do you *REALLY* have to scan *EVERY* file to determine what the icon needs to be, *BEFORE* loading up the list o' files to choose from? Windows does this, too [and it's disreputably SLOW because of it]. _MY_ file open dialog box looks like Windows '95 era but loads BLISTERINGLY FAST, even with hundreds of files. Try THAT with a BLOATWARE version. Yeah. The objects are MINDLESSLY collecting unused and worthless "information" about EVERY! STINKING! FILE! and that has NOTHING to do with X11 protocol or the network or the file system or X11's client/server model.

      It's also worth pointing out that a typical X-based application *COULD* be statically linked with the X11 libraries, and it would probably run/load just a _teeny_ bit faster. it could also be [*gasp*] shipped as a BINARY that way, and not have shared-lib-dependency-hell when copying to destination systems. Just sayin'. Not sure about Wayland applications, though. I bet it's so Windows-like it might as well have been designed in REDMOND. [but it was probably Silly Valley, nearly as bad]

      13 4 Reply
      1. keithpeter Silver badge
        Reply Icon
        Coat

        Re: Looks tempting

        "About that... let me describe some of my experiences with low-level X11 coding..."

        Any code out there at all Bombastic Bob? Sounds interesting.

        (I could imagine a live iso demo of your work - would need a loud hailer icon. And a *really* loud welcome sound...)

        Coat: off out now

        5 0 Reply
        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Looks tempting

          "Any code out there at all Bombastic Bob? Sounds interesting."

          It's probably full of random capitalisation.

          4 0 Reply
      2. bazza Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Looks tempting

        @Bombastic Bob,

        I too have never found X to be a problem. GTK is a miserable pile of ordur.

        I think if one is doing a lot of work that involves a load of texture maps in 3D, the pipe does become a problem. Hence moving away from that architecture. However...

        Internal DMA

        Of course the only reason why a pipe is problem in that circumstance is that it inherently involves memory copying, a lot of context switches back and forth (especially for large amounts of data flowing), a so forth. However modern Intel CPUs have features that would completely eliminate that problem; internal DMAs. A pipe-like facility could be implemented around internal DMAs, which would be lightning fast (indeed, very fast), and would take far less CPU time to shift data from a client application (e.g. texture maps) to a display server's internals. If mailbox semaphores were possible (I don't know if they are on an Intel platform) the DMA could even ping off a semaphore post to wake up a display server once new data had been provided by the client. Et voila, a client server architecture with far more bandwidth (by definition, the best possible bandwidth) and zero context switches in/out of the kernel.

        A thin layer on top would all this to optionally pump client data down a real pipe or socket (for remote servers).

        What do you think? A good idea?

        It seems that no one involved in replacing X is stopping to think whether or not the client-server model could be retained. I think they've blundered straight on into replacing it with a fairly crude driver architecture without casting an eye around to see what hardware facilities now exist to improve the existing client / server architecture. It'd be a great pity if all that nice DMA silicon that Intel now put in their CPUs ended up not being used by an updated X server for *nix.

        8 0 Reply
        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Reply Icon
          Devil

          Re: Looks tempting

          "I think if one is doing a lot of work that involves a load of texture maps in 3D, the pipe does become a problem. Hence moving away from that architecture"

          that's where GLX becomes a better solution than native X11 calls. Since that involves device driver stuff, I suppose you'd have to query for support, and have an alternative method available when it won't work...

          ideally all of that would be done via the toolkit

          /me has heard of GUI toolkits based entirely on Open GL (and that should have GLX support)

          1 1 Reply
  9. Piloti

    Unity, Unity, Unity......

    Unity, where art thou Unity.......

    I did my migration from Unity to Gnome this morning and now I know why I hated Gnome and why Unity was damned good.

    The amount of screen real estate wasted at the top with empty title bars [four in Evolution, three with Firefox...... Two in Unity] and up down / north south nonsense instead of the logical left right / east west, Synapse no longer working......

    I have some more gripes but will be spending the evening looking at alternative desktops. Mate / Cinnamon ? I know Unity is there in the 17.10 download, but Canonical aren't going to be supporting it... So, pastures new.

    2 2 Reply
    1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Stop

      Re: Unity, Unity, Unity......

      There's still Yunit:

      http://sourcedigit.com/22464-install-yunit-unity-8-fork-ubuntu/

      0 0 Reply
    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Unity, Unity, Unity......

      This post by Piloti is the perfect example of why there is no one ideal desktop for everyone. Clearly what Unity was just what Piloti wanted. Because I want the desktop primarily as a place to put files and directories it's as unsuited to me as KDE would be to him. However, we can both have the style of desktop we want, so no problem.

      4 0 Reply
      1. J 3
        Reply Icon
        IT Angle

        Re: Unity, Unity, Unity......

        Uhm... I don't think I understood what you meant by "because I want the desktop primarily as a place to put files and directories [Unity]'s as unsuited to me as KDE would be to him", since I've been putting files and directories on my Unity desktop for many years now. At least I was until this morning, when I updated to 17.10, not knowing what awaited me... and still am, since they are still there (at first, I thought Ubuntu had just an updated Unity version, to be honest; then the problems started).

        0 0 Reply
    3. J 3
      Reply Icon

      Re: Unity, Unity, Unity......

      Did you mean Synaptic is not working? (genuine question, maybe there is something out there called Synapse)

      I myself prefer Synaptic to anything else, so that bummed me. There is a workaround though; run:

      xhost +si:localuser:root

      After that, Synaptic works, reportedly only during the current login session. I haven't rebooted yet, so I haven't tested that.

      0 0 Reply
  10. Triumphantape

    Looks like Unity to me

    I think I'll stick with Mint.

    5 0 Reply
  11. matjaggard

    I hate three letter acronyms

    I use Ubuntu every day and I still have no idea what UFW or HUD are without googling. Why does all of computing have to be full of confusification?

    2 0 Reply
    1. kneedragon
      Reply Icon

      Re: I hate three letter acronyms

      RTFM....

      5 0 Reply
  12. Jonathan 27

    Sounds like it's an idea to give 17.10 a pass, but, saying that. I'm probably going to install to tonight anyway. I can always just roll back a backup.

    0 0 Reply
  13. FatGerman

    In with one desktop, out with another, I remember when I was using KDE3 and KDE4 was released about 3 years before it was ready. What a pile of shit. I've tried unity and gnome3 since but only out of curiosity because they're shit too. Why don't Ubuntu realise that people just want something they're familiar with that fucking works? Been using a Mac since KDE4 arrived. I pay the Apple tax happily because I can actually be productive.

    3 3 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      @F*tGerman Absolutely agree....except that in my case it's XFCE that I've been using for ever.....on top of Fedora, so no tax to pay either.

      *

      Back on topic.....GNOME 3 is absolutely horrible. And remote X sessions are very useful....It's still not clear to me whether Wayland (implemented everywhere) will allow me to use:

      "ssh -X -C -l <user_name> -p <non_standard_port> <remote_ip_address>"

      .....so I can run X applications on a remote server from my laptop. Can anyone tell me?

      0 0 Reply
    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      "KDE4 was released about 3 years before it was ready."

      Complete with a statement that it wasn't yet intended for production. Which people promptly ignored.

      4 0 Reply
  14. bazza Silver badge

    Popcorn / Fireworks / World War 3

    From the article:

    A lot of companies would never have admitted that the vision of convergence wasn't what people wanted. That's the sort of move that takes guts and honest appraisal of what you're doing, what's working and what's not. The GNOME project has never displayed that kind of thinking. And as far as I can tell, it operates on nearly the opposite premise. It's to early to say, but I predict conflict down the road. Keep a bag of popcorn handy, I believe there will be plenty of fireworks to watch.

    GNOME is particularly objectionable. Seems typical of the projects with heavy duty RedHat involvement these days. It's like they thought, let's take everything that's good about a desktop and minimise it or, preferably, throw it away altogether. God knows what all that bloaty code is for, but it's not giving me the desktop environment I want.

    8 0 Reply
  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    BSD

    TrueOS is worth a look

    2 0 Reply
  16. phil_n

    MX16

    Try MX16. Mint has gone goofy for me on both of my computers and been replaced by MX16. No systemd - xfce4 - and makes devuan look like a vanity project. YMMV

    2 0 Reply
  17. IGnatius T Foobar
    Linux

    The year of Linux everywhere except the desktop

    We've been going at this for too long. The conventional wisdom was that unless Linux takes the desktop, Microsoft will leverage its monopoly to take everything else. Well guess what, kids -- here we are, literally DECADES later, and Windows still rules the desktop. But Linux has taken over literally EVERYTHING else. Linux dominates handheld devices like phones, embedded devices like set top boxes, network infrastructure, and even servers: no one uses Windows Server anymore except to run Microsoft's own server software.

    The lesson learned here: if Linux hasn't taken the desktop by now, it probably never will; and if Windows hasn't taken "everything else" by now, it probably never will. The truth is that Microsoft is no longer the existential threat to everything that is not itself, as it was in the 1990's and 2000's. That mantle now belongs to Amazon and Facebook. As for me, this dyed-in-the-wool Penguinista who ran desktop Linux for 20 years has switched to Windows 10 (with Cortana disabled, of course). It's safe now, kids. Come on out.

    1 7 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The year of Linux everywhere except the desktop

      Linux has become a viable alternative OS for even non-technical people. Even PC World is selling Linux based laptops.

      Domination isn't required, nor desired; Being the most popular among the less informed isn't appealing. If that where to happen, then it could mean Linux desktop would be as bad as Windows (for me, at least).

      6 0 Reply
    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: The year of Linux everywhere except the desktop

      "switched to Windows 10 ... It's safe now, kids."

      Have you read the T&Cs about telemetry? Go read them. Look for what statements they make about restricting what they allow themselves to take. Is it safe?

      7 0 Reply
    3. J 3
      Reply Icon

      Re: The year of Linux everywhere except the desktop

      "switched to Windows 10 (with Cortana disabled, of course). It's safe now, kids. Come on out."

      If I enjoyed throwing money away on useless (for me) stuff, I would definitely switch, thanks for the tip!

      Also, I have used Windows 10 while fixing a relative's laptop; I shudder just from recalling it.

      Funny how my relatives whose laptops had Ubuntu installed never call me though...

      5 1 Reply
  18. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge
    WTF?

    No more menus

    Ubuntu 17.10 has a redundant mini-dock where the top menu bar should be. Now all apps supporting a system menu bar have no menus.

    2 0 Reply
  19. DaemonProcess

    anything but Unity

    Unity was the only desktop that I rated worse than Vista. Ouch.

    It was clearly an attempt at providing a free and simple desktop to newbies who cannot afford Microsoft or Apple. I applaud the attempt and it definitely had some nice features if you had a personal supercomputer, but the result for me was slow bloatware. After a month long battle I backed up all my files and went elsewhere so that I could some memory left to actually run an application. I installed Mint Cinnamon, then Bodhi, then Kubuntu, then Solaris (for a laugh), then Ubuntu 17.04 ... what will be next.... The comment about backups/restores is very pertinent and reveals a key weakness about us and change. By changing desktops a lot I am also part of the 'change' problem. My main excuse is 'your release is not supported any more'.

    0 0 Reply
    1. J 3
      Reply Icon
      Paris Hilton

      Re: anything but Unity

      "nice features if you had a personal supercomputer, but the result for me was slow bloatware"

      Either you are trying to run it on a Pentium II or something was very wrong with your install. Until this morning I was running Unity on a 7 year old computer; still run it on a 6 year old Asus "netbook", without problem. Admittedly, both have (cheap, consumer-level) SSDs.

      1 0 Reply
  20. Howard Hanek

    Desktop Smeshtop

    There are soooooo many desktops available to plug in. If you don't LIKE Gnome....change it to just about anything else.

    1 0 Reply
  21. Stese

    @Bob

    When are you going to explain what on earth you mean with "Win-10-nic".

    I find no reference on the net for it. I know you are using it instead of Windows 10.... but WHY?

    1 1 Reply

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

Forgotten password ?

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like