back to article While USA is distracted by its President's antics, China is busy breaking another fusion record

Chinese boffins say they have smashed yet another world fusion record using their EAST contraption – aka the Experimental Advanced Superconducting Tokamak. The experimental fusion system managed to maintain a stable plasma state for 101.2 seconds, with the temperature peaking at 50,000,000 K (90,000,000°F, 50,000,000°C), we're …

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Re: Worse..

Oh? Is EAST part of ITER? Or something separate so that China doesn't have to share?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Worse..

As member nations, they all have equal access to the intellectual property developed by the project.

1. The announcement is not from ITER, it is from their own where they share a nice 3 finger salute contribution.

2. If you have not tried to work with Chinese on IPR and in International standards organizations, what you get from them is a nice 3 finger salute contribution in the form of outright perversion, subversion and sabotage.

3. If you are not convinced by 2, I suggest you have some dig around on the subject of Chinese and open source. There you always consistently share a 3 finger salute contribution.

Chinese and true collaboration in one sentence is the mother of all oxymorons. It is culturally foreign for them to collaborate with "the lesser nations" and "foreign devils" - aka all of us.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Worse..

If you have not tried to work with Chinese on IPR and in International standards organizations, what you get from them is a nice 3 finger salute contribution in the form of outright perversion, subversion and sabotage.

You mean just like you get from the French, the Americans, the Russians, Microsoft, etc.?

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LDS
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Re: Worse..

Don't worry, Trump will answer by opening more coal mines, and building the biggest steam alternative engine the world has ever seen!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: ITER is too important to be cocked up by politicians.

I admire your faith.

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Re: Worse..

You forgot to mention that they perpetrate industrial scale fraud in more or less any walk of life.

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Re: Worse..

But it'll be the biggest, most powerful and beautiful steam engine

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Re: Worse..

1. The announcement is not from ITER, it is from their own where they share a nice 3 finger salute contribution.

2. If you have not tried to work with Chinese on IPR and in International standards organizations, what you get from them is a nice 3 finger salute contribution in the form of outright perversion, subversion and sabotage.

3. If you are not convinced by 2, I suggest you have some dig around on the subject of Chinese and open source. There you always consistently share a 3 finger salute contribution.

OK, but why do their computers keep needing rebooting?

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tfb

Re: Worse..

A lot of things are too important to be cocked up by politicians. Unfortunately that doesn't stop them doing just that.

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Re: Worse..

Fusion ain't needed for a worse outcome.

If the Chinese keep producing Solar panels at the same rate of descending cost all the the oil backed currencies are f*cked any way. Especially since HVDC transmission lines are booming.

They will literally be so cheap that they will make sense anywhere south of Edinburgh. Huge brute forcing of the power problem but feasible.

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Re: Worse..

bazza,

I was ready to click upvote until I got to, "ITER is too important to be cocked up by politicians." Perhaps things are different where you live, but, around here the more important something is the more likely it is to be cocked up by politicians.

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Coffee/keyboard

Re: just like you get from the French, the Americans, the Russians, Microsoft, etc.?

"As member nations, they all have equal access to the shared pool of 3 finger salutes developed by the project".

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Re: Worse..

as has MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center in the US, although that facility has now shut down for lack of funds.

......

However, if the Chinese can crack it, they'll be in possession of the must-have technology of this century. ®"

But.... tax cuts for the rich!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Worse..

If the Chinese keep producing Solar panels at the same rate of descending cost all the the oil backed currencies are f*cked any way. Especially since HVDC transmission lines are booming.

Actually, the US is already doing that to itself. California apparently has a serious problem in that it produces too much solar power and can't get rid of it. The result is that prices AROUND California have dropped to the point of going negative (I kid you not) but (and this is even harder to believe) the Californians THEMSELVES still have to pay high rates as they have been fixed to repay the investment in solar plants.

It has become a weird, weird country..

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Re: Worse..

According to the article, it's not solar power specifically but the California grid in general. It's way overbuilt, even accounting for surge capacity. This is more a matter of political nepotism at work here: a human factor that's notoriously hard to control. And there's no mention of selling off the excess electricity to neighboring states. Perhaps the infrastructure isn't there or regulations make this too problematic. Point is, the article isn't quite saying what you're saying.

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Re: Worse..

The US dollar has been the international trading currency of choice for decades because it's stable (Gold backing went away a long time ago) and the use of it drives the USA Hegemony (in the same way that use of the franc and pound did in past times. The days of the UK being a major world power went away the day that international trade stopped being done in Sterling.)

It's been postulated that one of the driving forces behind GulfWar2 was that Saddam was trading oil in Euros and that tolerating expanding international trade using the currency was seen by US interests as a more important threat than any "weapons of mass destruction" could possibly be.

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Re: Worse..

"They will literally be so cheap that they will make sense anywhere south of Edinburgh. Huge brute forcing of the power problem but feasible."

People keep claiming this, but moving to a low carbon future needs to take into account that the maximum you can reasonably achieve by carpetting the countryside in windmills and solar panels is to replace existing power generation capacity (solar and wind are still less than the UK's nuclear output).

That overlooks that electricity only accounts for 30-40% of carbon emissions, so once you factor that in, you have a large shortfall to make up given that replacing heating, transportation, industrial processes etc with electrically-sourced energy is going to need 6-8 times more electricity than is currently produced (and then there's the issue of developing countries, which will need to ramp their power production up even faster and with greater multipliers)

The only viable long-term methods are nuclear - fusion or fission - and right now commercially viable fusion is still "somewhere over the horizon", so we'd better get our ducks in order. Nuclear is quite safe but molten salt systems pretty much eliminate ALL the nuclear accident causes we've seen in the last 70 years whilst also making enough heat that you don't need to site next to waterways (derating in hot weather to preserve river life/vulnerabilities to tsunamis) whilst still getting increased thermal efficiency, so not getting them commercialised and rolled out is rather silly.

From a biosphere point of view (NOT sea level rises) we can't afford to keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere until fusion is ready. Geological history shows CO2 spikes go nicely with oceanic

anoxic events and mass extinctions. As an animal with a particularly oxygen-hungry lifestyle we're rather high on the "first against the wall" list if that happens.

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Re: Worse..

California's problem is the same as South Australia's.

Once you exceed 3-4% intermittent sources (wind and solar), your grid becomes extremely fragile when combined with "Must take" rules and feedin tarriff rates which are stupidly high

At this level of penetration it's time to start killing off the the hidden subsidies - solar/wind operators don't have to pay for the backing generator capacity that's required to handle no wind/no sun - by requiring them to start using systems to smooth output such that they can be baseload sources.

IE: Elon's battery banks should be paid for by the renewables suppliers, NOT by the grid operators. else it's even more hidden subsidy going into their pockets.

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Flame

At that temp, marshmallows will melt!

Why would MIT get funds to get their toy up and running when there is all that coal which is going to make America grate (sic), or so says the orange idiot.

China is going to end up with all the cool new gadgets unless if funding is not adequately provided for scientific research. I don't like that thought.

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Holmes

Re: At that temp, marshmallows will melt!

'merkins are on a involution process, soon they will loose control of their thumbs, and will go back to climbing trees and growing fur.

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Re: At that temp, marshmallows will melt!

As Trump actively works to accelerate the stupidifcation of the US, it may not be long before there just aren't enough people left with sufficient intelligence to operate any power plant using technology more advanced than that found in the Victorian era.

That's how he'll bring coal back.

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Re: At that temp, marshmallows will melt!

Can you imagine the reaction of US residents if their next president decided to follow suit with France's ban on the sale of vehicles that are soley powered by petrol or diesel by 2040?

I'd probably end up in hospital suffering from an acute laughing fit.

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Re: At that temp, marshmallows will melt!

As Trump actively works to accelerate the stupidifcation of the US, it may not be long before there just aren't enough people left with sufficient intelligence to operate any power plant using technology more advanced than that found in the Victorian era.

Nope. The stupidificatoin has been going on since the late 60's/early 70's time frame and run by the NEA (teacher's union). They've been changing history books, dumbing down the maths, and wiped out critical thinking. Hell, some schools that I know of hired art teachers to teach math and science. Where we are now is the result of this.

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Unhappy

"merkins are on a involution process, soon they will loose control of their thumbs, "

Absolute nonsense.

Most of them don't believe in evolution. *

*I don't know that for a fact but I'm sure it's true, so I guess that's an alternative "fact."

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Happy

Re: At that temp, marshmallows will melt!

Trump is pro-fusion!

By increasing the Density of the US population, soon a mass will accumulate that will collapse into a bright point of fusion energy, as seen in a recent Spiderman documentary.

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Headmaster

Re: At that temp, marshmallows will melt!

'merkins are on a involution process, soon they will loose control of their thumbs, and will go back to climbing trees and growing fur.

Maybe they'll regress to spelling lose correctly - one can but hope.

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Most of them don't believe in evolution.

Don't worry, evolution believes in them!

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Re: At that temp, marshmallows will melt!

That could be an interesting watch,all those tanks all vanishing up one arsehole and then just a little foop noise and their all gone.

Wonderful !!

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Huh. A new place advertising "Chinese Fusion" just opened down the street. I guess it's not at all what I thought it was.

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Spicey hot take(out)!

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Anonymous Coward

It's a whole new level of heartburn.

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Anonymous Coward

Why doesn't the article mention that the USA is also a member of ITER? Selective journalism trying to make a cheap political point? I've got no problems with scoring points on Trump bashing; it is of course deeply fashionable to take the piss out of the current incumbent of the White House, he provides so many wonderful opportunities for doing just that. But has he actually done anything to change the USA's status within the ITER project? If he has, it's not mentioned in this article. Surely Iain Thomson can do better than that?

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Just look at the headline:

"While USA is distracted by its President's antics..."

That's quite biased. I'm not seeing any such distraction here, except among the leftists who are being driven to it.

Punk'd by Trump again and again, and they never catch on. It's that missing sense of humour I guess.

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Big John,

Downvoted because the US media is under the impression that every headline must contain the T word. I literally spend a lot more time filtering out unless crap from news feeds.

Note: I am merely explaining my downvote.

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Stop

"While USA is distracted by its President's antics..."

I think only the media (and those who rely on it) are the only ones who are distracted by our President's antics. The rest of us are just going about our merry way. What our Presidents do (or don't do) seldom affects the people's way of life.

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First plasma that your link references is not the same thing as a stable plasma for over 100 seconds described by this article.

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it should'nt take too long, the uk's reactor is only a few months old and can hook up a quantum computer to control the magnet's and the amount of friction, for stable plasma for a day, you would need the sensor readings on 0 nano second, not next year every normal CPU cycle

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i can't remember how long plasma lives for, but it has a real short lifetime, using a normal CPU would make a fusion reactor, maybe 3x less efficient, then using as much fibre as possible and a quantum computer when trying to control a whole chamber of plasma

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"Clock Time

Clock time (CT) is the period of the clock that synchronizes the circuits in a processor. It is the reciprocal of the clock frequency.

For example, a 1 GHz processor has a cycle time of 1.0 ns and a 4 GHz processor has a cycle time of 0.25 ns. "

https://www.d.umn.edu/~gshute/arch/performance-equation.xhtml

the clock time also depends on how many transistors the CPU has and the finfet size, and then normal circuit boards add extra nano seconds as does copper wires, as does the operating system being used, put it all together and you have windows that can't cope with USB ports with a polling rate faster then 1000mhz/1ms latency

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Alert

It may have competition

Check out this site. This is not "cold fusion," but promises essentially unlimited, clean power.

The guy behind the company has been working since the early 90's on this, and the problems they are fighting are engineering ones, "real" problems, much like the fusion people. Some physicists reject his theories, but it seems that, at least to some extent, they are gaining acceptance. I'm not enough of a physicist to have a real opinion, but it sure looks intriguing to me. If he's right, we should see a working prototype this year, and see commercial units sometime in 2018. Time will tell.

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"some physicists reject his theories"

'round about all them do, actually.

Especially once a phrase like "The SunCell® that was invented to harness the new power source catalytically converts hydrogen directly into dark matter form called Hydrino® releasing brilliant high-energy light which is down-converted in energy to facilitate the production of electricity using commercially-available concentrator photovoltaic cells" spunks all over their woo detectors. These Hydrinos [ooops, nearly forgot the ® symbol - key part of any physics discovery is the trademark] are either a remarkable state of hydrogen whose unmistakable signature has somehow escaped the notice of every other researcher on this most studied of atoms across 150 years. Or it's a scam.

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Happy

Re: It may have competition

It has competition, but not from brilliantlightpower and their ilks who do not know their QM.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: It may have competition

BLP article on Wikipedia was a good read ;) What a scam!

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Re: "some physicists reject his theories"

catalytically converts hydrogen directly into dark matter

I've never heard of cats converting hydrogen into dark matter, but they can do it with cat food so who knows?

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Re: "some physicists reject his theories"

Hydrinos are still alive?

I remember when it was just claimed that the electrons improbably dropped down an orbital to yield "compacter hydrogen" and energy. 20 years ago or so?

So the story changed to "conversion to dark matter".

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Vic
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Re: It may have competition

the problems they are fighting are engineering ones, "real" problems

They certainly are real problems. Like "How do we overcome reality?"

I'm not enough of a physicist to have a real opinion

I am. He's full of shit.

Vic.

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Re: It may have competition

Excellent. OF COURSE it runs on molten silver...

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Re: It may have competition

Characteristic of a scam: "This taps into a previously unknown/unrecognized state of matter to produced virtually unlimited amounts of energy which will completely replace all other forms of energy production in short order. Our tiny company, utilizing this unique knowledge/insight which no one else possesses, will be completing a commercial-scale demonstration with only private funding in [unrealistically short time-frame]."

Characteristic of genuine research: "Well, this is interesting. We're looking into it. Other groups are working along similar lines."

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